This is what I use for 5 man farming in Grenth's Footprint/Sorrows Furnace. I'm posting this because I actually had someone join our group today as an "Echo SS Necro" and they were echoing Shadow Strike. It should be used in the standard 5 man group including a Stance Tank(for holding gear/keg)/Bond Monk/Heal Monk/ and Minion Master using mostly Fiends.
Profession: N/Me
Name: Nate's Echo SS
Type: PVE
Category: Damage/Support/Interrupt
Attributes:
Blood: 10 + 1 (Base + Rune)
Curse: 12 + 3 + 1 (Base + Sup Rune + Hat)
Soul Reap: 8 + 1 (Base + Rune)
Skills Set:
1. Awaken The Blood
2. Weaken Armor
3. Barbs
4. Spinal Shivers
5. Descreate Enchantments
6. Rend Enchantments
7. Spiteful Spirit {Elite(curses)}
8. Archane Echo
The purpose of this build is to get Spiteful Spirit on every member of the enemy group as fast as you can. With the 11 points in Blood magic, your Awaken The Blood will last 38 seconds. Long enough for you to echo SS, and have it recharge twice each sometimes. This allows you to have up to 6 SS's going at once in ideal conditions. Weaken Armor, Barbs, Spinal Shivers, Desc & Rend, are all used as anti-boss spells to support your SS; and more importantly your Minion Master teammate who should have anywhere from a few to an entire screen of Fiends blasting away. IMO Barbs is the new Mark of Pain since the AoE nerf, especially helpful vs. Monk bosses like Yak, as even he can't heal through it. The equipment I use is Vilnars Glove & Claw, and before I had those I just used the collectors items for curses.
Notes & Concerns:
Some of the weaknesses with this is energy management. You usually can get enough from soul reaping, but when there aren't any minions helping yet(either by killing or dying themselves) you probably won't get off more than 3 Spiteful Spirits.
Credit:Whoever came up with Echo SS.
Comments? I wanna put this in the whole build directory thing, hence the formatting. I didn't see one for SF there.
N/Me Echo SS for 5 Man Sorrows Farming
Nater
MoeSyzslak
Interesting...Barbs is a great idea...I need to try it.
My thought was that if I was going to put the points into Blood it should be used for more than Awaken....hence:
Curses 12+1+3
Blood 9+1
SR 9+1
Wep - Villnar's Staff (just dropped for me this week
)
Awaken The Blood
Arcane Echo
SS
Desecrate Enchantments
Dark Pact
Vampiric Gaze
Blood Rit OR Malaise
Rez
Usually get in close enough to pop off 4 straight SS...love seeing those yellow -41s around a group of baddies...Desecrate once my SS are off to smack a large group...Dark Pact/Vampiric Gaze to help kill the peskier characters. Normally I bring blood rit (just in case - with a good team it generally goes unused) but I was considering a tweak with Malaise in order to screw with Priests/Yak etc.
My thought was that if I was going to put the points into Blood it should be used for more than Awaken....hence:
Curses 12+1+3
Blood 9+1
SR 9+1
Wep - Villnar's Staff (just dropped for me this week
)Awaken The Blood
Arcane Echo
SS
Desecrate Enchantments
Dark Pact
Vampiric Gaze
Blood Rit OR Malaise
Rez
Usually get in close enough to pop off 4 straight SS...love seeing those yellow -41s around a group of baddies...Desecrate once my SS are off to smack a large group...Dark Pact/Vampiric Gaze to help kill the peskier characters. Normally I bring blood rit (just in case - with a good team it generally goes unused) but I was considering a tweak with Malaise in order to screw with Priests/Yak etc.
Carinae
Rend and Spinal Shivers are CRUCIAL. ALL Echo SS's should carry both of these when farming SF!
Vexed Arcanist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
Rend and Spinal Shivers are CRUCIAL. ALL Echo SS's should carry both of these when farming SF!
Could you elaborate? I can see Rend if you are dealing with Mark, but Spinal Shivers? Also, why is Rend more crucial over Strip? Faster cast, faster recycle. I don't think I ever ran across a boss in that area with more than Mark.
Nater
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexed Arcanist
Could you elaborate? I can see Rend if you are dealing with Mark, but Spinal Shivers? Also, why is Rend more crucial over Strip? Faster cast, faster recycle. I don't think I ever ran across a boss in that area with more than Mark.
Because monk bosses, and some of the bosses in general, have more then one enchant on them. Might as well shred em all.
Spinal Shivers is for interrupting. Half the time I don't even use Rend Enchants, because after I hit everything with SS, I pop Spinal Shivers onto the boss if its a monk(or Gnasher/Binder to help out the MM) and call it, so the other Necro(who's doing cold damage too) can attack. The hexed foe never gets another spell off usually. An ounce of prevention over a pound of cure.
Malaise is a great idea, sub for weaken armor. I've found that along with all the other curses w/ minions pounding them, the monk isn't alive long enough for Malaise to really have an impact.
I know it seems to be a waste to have all those points in Blood Magic for ONE skill, but that one skill supports all the others. That is my main idea here, to support the MM after my SS.
Spinal Shivers is for interrupting. Half the time I don't even use Rend Enchants, because after I hit everything with SS, I pop Spinal Shivers onto the boss if its a monk(or Gnasher/Binder to help out the MM) and call it, so the other Necro(who's doing cold damage too) can attack. The hexed foe never gets another spell off usually. An ounce of prevention over a pound of cure.
Malaise is a great idea, sub for weaken armor. I've found that along with all the other curses w/ minions pounding them, the monk isn't alive long enough for Malaise to really have an impact.
I know it seems to be a waste to have all those points in Blood Magic for ONE skill, but that one skill supports all the others. That is my main idea here, to support the MM after my SS.
Carinae
OK sorry for the short post earlier, I was late for a meeting. 
As Nater said, Spinal Shivers is total shutdown for most SF bosses, especially the monk bosses. And it has good synergy with the MM (me). Minions will take down a monk boss in 3-4 seconds if he can't heal/Mark.
Rend is 'disaster recovery'. If they get a Mark off, or if another priest puts Mark up, you can make it (and Life Attunement and whatever else) go away.
Neither Rend or Spinal is 'Required' specifically. It's the enchantment removal and interruptions that are helpful, however you want to deliver them. But Rend and Spinal are Curses, and you're already max Curses for SS, so you can pack them for free (attribute-wise).
Tactically, Spinal Shivers is ideal for dispatching monk bosses. It's awesome, total pwnage. Best PvE monk-shutdown out there right now.
Strip Enchants? I've run it for the reasons you mention, but ultimately, it's UNSATISFYING. Rend is like an Exclaimation Point! All enchants gone, no questions.
("I say we nuke 'em from orbit. Only way to be sure!")
As Nater said, Spinal Shivers is total shutdown for most SF bosses, especially the monk bosses. And it has good synergy with the MM (me). Minions will take down a monk boss in 3-4 seconds if he can't heal/Mark.
Rend is 'disaster recovery'. If they get a Mark off, or if another priest puts Mark up, you can make it (and Life Attunement and whatever else) go away.
Neither Rend or Spinal is 'Required' specifically. It's the enchantment removal and interruptions that are helpful, however you want to deliver them. But Rend and Spinal are Curses, and you're already max Curses for SS, so you can pack them for free (attribute-wise).
Tactically, Spinal Shivers is ideal for dispatching monk bosses. It's awesome, total pwnage. Best PvE monk-shutdown out there right now.
Strip Enchants? I've run it for the reasons you mention, but ultimately, it's UNSATISFYING. Rend is like an Exclaimation Point! All enchants gone, no questions.
("I say we nuke 'em from orbit. Only way to be sure!")
Sunsu Pyro
Why is soul reaping important if you arent using any SR spells?
Longleaf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunsu Pyro
Why is soul reaping important if you arent using any SR spells?
There are no SR spells. But each point in SR gives you 1 energy everytime something dies. 9 in SR gives you 9 energy everytime something gets killed.
Dwimmerlaik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longleaf
...Soul Reaping gives 1 energy everytime something dies. To give you full scope of that, that means ANYTHING. If a minion/NPC/enemy/party member, anything at all dies, you get 1 energy for each rank of Soul Reaping. If you're this build with an MM necro in your party, their minions die quite often, regardless of their best efforts to keep them alive - that alone is a huge energy boost.
Oronar
I feel like an idiot for asking, but I can't figure it out, so what the heck...
What is the source of the cold damage that activates spinal shivers? There's probably an obvious answer, but sometimes it's hard to see what's staring you straight in the face, I guess.
What is the source of the cold damage that activates spinal shivers? There's probably an obvious answer, but sometimes it's hard to see what's staring you straight in the face, I guess.
jtchans
Your Weapon
Undead Preacher
Attributes:
Curses: 16
Soul Reaping:11
Inspiration:10
SKILLS
1) Arcane Echo
2) Spiteful Spirit
3) Desecrate Enchantments or Leech Sig(interupt, gain 11 energy)
4) Power Drain (interupt, gain 21 energy)
5) Spinal Shivers
6) Barbs
7) Energy Tap (gain 12 energy)
8) Ether Feast (111 point self-heal)
With this build I ALWAYS have energy to cast SS.... and the INTERUPTS really help the group!
Curses: 16
Soul Reaping:11
Inspiration:10
SKILLS
1) Arcane Echo
2) Spiteful Spirit
3) Desecrate Enchantments or Leech Sig(interupt, gain 11 energy)
4) Power Drain (interupt, gain 21 energy)
5) Spinal Shivers
6) Barbs
7) Energy Tap (gain 12 energy)
8) Ether Feast (111 point self-heal)
With this build I ALWAYS have energy to cast SS.... and the INTERUPTS really help the group!
Oronar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtchans
Your Weapon
I just checked and my collector curses rod does dark dmg. All my weapons do except for the death rod, which is cold. Are you saying I should switch to a wand that is otherwise useless whenever I cast spinal shivers? Does the curses staff do cold damage or something?
I just checked and my collector curses rod does dark dmg. All my weapons do except for the death rod, which is cold. Are you saying I should switch to a wand that is otherwise useless whenever I cast spinal shivers? Does the curses staff do cold damage or something?
Demonicevl
Well, i tried this before....I Echo ss, soul barbs, then spam parasitic. Soul barbs with awaken the blood and 16 curses gives around 31-37 dmg? Plus that also works if u ss them, so bonus dmg. Just thought i could mention it since it seems to be working fairly well with me
Undead Preacher
If you are using AtB then SS does 41 dmg, if you put it only multiple adjacent attacking foes it does serious dmg... soul barbs is nice, but if u use SS properly, its not necessary! just a tip!
Polish Sosage
Hey guys, Im new here and im a necro/mesmer but i feel like a total n00b when i see this stuff. Is there no use for death magic... cause im lvl 14 and have 9+1 death magic 5+1 blood magic and 6 soulreaping. i need some help here cause i dont have any of the skills u guys were talking about.. can some1 help me plz?
Ole Man Bourbon
Use the bone staff for cold damage, just hotkey it and switch it in and out as you need it. Don't need to have any pts invested in death magic for the cold damage.
bobrath
Two questions:
1) With the Spinal Shivers, how do you deal with the nrg loss? seems like running that would either stunt your further cursing or be limited duration as you'd have a very small bank of nrg after having spammed out curses... Only saying that since I thought monk bosses were targeted first by groups rather then at the end (when nrg mgmt isn't as essential)
2) With Rend Enchantments, have you ever run into a problem with being unwilling (or able) to cast it because the health penalty would kill you?
1) With the Spinal Shivers, how do you deal with the nrg loss? seems like running that would either stunt your further cursing or be limited duration as you'd have a very small bank of nrg after having spammed out curses... Only saying that since I thought monk bosses were targeted first by groups rather then at the end (when nrg mgmt isn't as essential)
2) With Rend Enchantments, have you ever run into a problem with being unwilling (or able) to cast it because the health penalty would kill you?
Ole Man Bourbon
1. Energy's not a problem, as pretty much every time you interrupt you've recharged 5 energy. If you were using an Icy sword and Frenzy it may be different, but I never do that.
2. I've never had a problem with this.
2. I've never had a problem with this.
Carinae
1) Your wand doesn't have a fast attack rate, and you don't need to interrupt the boss constantly. Just put Shivers on him, and stand right next to him, and bop him with your wand if he starts to cast a spell you'd rather him not cast.
2) Never. I made a mental effort to forget about the health loss. It looks worse than it is.
2) Never. I made a mental effort to forget about the health loss. It looks worse than it is.
Undead Preacher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oronar
I feel like an idiot for asking, but I can't figure it out, so what the heck...
What is the source of the cold damage that activates spinal shivers? There's probably an obvious answer, but sometimes it's hard to see what's staring you straight in the face, I guess. VERY SIMPLE GUYS....
CHECK OUT VILLNAR'S CLAW... CURSES GREEN WAND WITH COLD DMG....ALOT BETTER THAN CHANGING BACK AND FORTH AND IT ONLY RUNS AROUND 20K
What is the source of the cold damage that activates spinal shivers? There's probably an obvious answer, but sometimes it's hard to see what's staring you straight in the face, I guess. VERY SIMPLE GUYS....
CHECK OUT VILLNAR'S CLAW... CURSES GREEN WAND WITH COLD DMG....ALOT BETTER THAN CHANGING BACK AND FORTH AND IT ONLY RUNS AROUND 20K
Ole Man Bourbon
Problem with the Claw is you can't use the defense mods and such. For instance, I prefer a Defensive Wicked Staff of Defense.
The only time I like using offhanders is when I'm playing a build where I want to get the skill speed/recharge increase for two different attributes (ie curses/death, domination/inspiration, air/illusion, etc).
All depends on situation I guess.
The only time I like using offhanders is when I'm playing a build where I want to get the skill speed/recharge increase for two different attributes (ie curses/death, domination/inspiration, air/illusion, etc).
All depends on situation I guess.
Carinae
For 20k you could get dozens of Collectors wands or a good Gold Curses wand. Villnar's Claw is a bad wand. Sorry for two similar posts.
Undead Preacher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
Villnars Claw
Cold Damge 11-22(req.9 curses)~need cold dmg for S. Shivers
Energy +5(while hexed)
Improves fast casting using curses skills(chance 20%)
Villnars Glove
Energy +12
Curses +1(chance 20%)
Improves skill recharge using curses skills(chance 20%)
**how is this setup bad**
-the only mod that sucks is the +5 energy when hexed, but besides that you have 20/20/20 mods as far as fast casting/skill recharge/ curses +1 and you get COLD damage instead of Dark damage which means you don't have to switch to a USELESS wand everytime u cast spinal shivers..... people say it sucks because they don't have or they are too cheap to spend 40k.... if you ask me thats very cheap compared to the Bortaks setup!!!! I agree that many greens are OVERRATED.. and I've always used the 20/20 collecters offhand with 20% recharge collecters wand but my characters performance has greatly increased since i switched to this setup!
Carinae
The Glove is fine, but the Claw stinks. The while hexed requirement is useless. You can get a collectors wand with the same mods, minus the crappy energy bonus for much cheaper.
You can buy a Gold +5 energy > 50% Curses wand for less than 20k.
Or use a Death Wand, Water Wand, Icy HoD, or even a Candy Cane Wand.
You can buy a Gold +5 energy > 50% Curses wand for less than 20k.
Or use a Death Wand, Water Wand, Icy HoD, or even a Candy Cane Wand.
mark3h
I don't like spinal shivers, i don't like the energy loss, I have found though, even though the AoE makes them run from mark of pain, if you have a good minion master with you, the amount of damage will be far too quick for them to get away from, with damage at 44 or more and say 22 minions firing roughly at the same time. Its just all around mass damage.
I know it means you don't have the Shivers interuption, but its just a matter of who you target for the group damage.
I know it means you don't have the Shivers interuption, but its just a matter of who you target for the group damage.
BBoy_Manchild
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark3h
I don't like spinal shivers, i don't like the energy loss, I have found though, even though the AoE makes them run from mark of pain, if you have a good minion master with you, the amount of damage will be far too quick for them to get away from, with damage at 44 or more and say 22 minions firing roughly at the same time. Its just all around mass damage.
I know it means you don't have the Shivers interuption, but its just a matter of who you target for the group damage. unless you have a group where the monks are helping you keep the fiends alive, which is innefficient to begin with, you will prolly not have more then 10-15 fiends at a time (i usually only have more then 20 fiends in the room with the first boss in oro, the two sets of stairs leading down to the dredge or whatever they are called) plus, you cant really control what the fiends attack so if you cast MoP on a creature where only 1-3 fiends are attacking all the mosters are gonna scatter making SS which is more damage less effective
I know it means you don't have the Shivers interuption, but its just a matter of who you target for the group damage. unless you have a group where the monks are helping you keep the fiends alive, which is innefficient to begin with, you will prolly not have more then 10-15 fiends at a time (i usually only have more then 20 fiends in the room with the first boss in oro, the two sets of stairs leading down to the dredge or whatever they are called) plus, you cant really control what the fiends attack so if you cast MoP on a creature where only 1-3 fiends are attacking all the mosters are gonna scatter making SS which is more damage less effective
olegthemighty
I just got my necro ascended, so this build is purely theoretical. I think it could be quite useful, though... here goes
16 curse
10 or 11 domination
rest into soul reaping
Arcane Echo
SShivers
SSpirit
Barbs
Rend Enchants
Wastrel's Worry (they'll be interrupted so ~50 dmg every 3-4 seconds)
Energy Burn
Power Spike
Not sure exactly about the last two, but I think that w's worry could be very useful considering the constant interrupting.
EDIT: Forgot about Awaken the Blood. maybe lower domination a couple points to put a few points into blood. Call me crazy, but if you do enough SF runs, maybe it would be useful to carry 2 superior runes, or even 3! With a semi-intelligent gear/keg tank, you should be able to get by just fine without a lot of HP, at least once you get inside SF (esp. with a good bonder. My monk bonds/barriers every member of the group-- it's not hard to maintain 8 enchants, and from my experience surviveability is much higher) heck, you really don't even have to pay the money for droknar's armor... just get some 30 armor scars or something to save your pocketbook.
so we have 12+1+3 curses
10ish domination
4 or 5 +3 blood
5 or 6 + 3 soul reaping
Atb
Arcane Echo
SShivers
SSpirit
Barbs
Rend Enchants
Wastrel's Worry
powerspike/energy burn
I have a hard time justfying lvl 10 domination for 2 skills, but I think it could be worth a try... now just got to get my necro to SF
16 curse
10 or 11 domination
rest into soul reaping
Arcane Echo
SShivers
SSpirit
Barbs
Rend Enchants
Wastrel's Worry (they'll be interrupted so ~50 dmg every 3-4 seconds)
Energy Burn
Power Spike
Not sure exactly about the last two, but I think that w's worry could be very useful considering the constant interrupting.
EDIT: Forgot about Awaken the Blood. maybe lower domination a couple points to put a few points into blood. Call me crazy, but if you do enough SF runs, maybe it would be useful to carry 2 superior runes, or even 3! With a semi-intelligent gear/keg tank, you should be able to get by just fine without a lot of HP, at least once you get inside SF (esp. with a good bonder. My monk bonds/barriers every member of the group-- it's not hard to maintain 8 enchants, and from my experience surviveability is much higher) heck, you really don't even have to pay the money for droknar's armor... just get some 30 armor scars or something to save your pocketbook.
so we have 12+1+3 curses
10ish domination
4 or 5 +3 blood
5 or 6 + 3 soul reaping
Atb
Arcane Echo
SShivers
SSpirit
Barbs
Rend Enchants
Wastrel's Worry
powerspike/energy burn
I have a hard time justfying lvl 10 domination for 2 skills, but I think it could be worth a try... now just got to get my necro to SF
Ole Man Bourbon
SHivers doesn't really cause you to lose energy. From my experience.
Janelle Deathmarrow
Wastral's could work I guess...another of those udnerrated skills imo 
. Though do keep in mind that without blood-magic or something like Para-Bond, you have no Self-heal in there. I can also see some problems with Energy-Management come at you with this combo which could turn out to limit your use of SS (which is the main dmg engine in your case).
EDIT: Scrap that energy problem. If you run this in SF with 9 soul-reaping you should be able to get a couple off without compromising your SS. I take my comment back . Nice new stuff keep it up
. Though do keep in mind that without blood-magic or something like Para-Bond, you have no Self-heal in there. I can also see some problems with Energy-Management come at you with this combo which could turn out to limit your use of SS (which is the main dmg engine in your case).EDIT: Scrap that energy problem
. If you run this in SF with 9 soul-reaping you should be able to get a couple off without compromising your SS. I take my comment back . Nice new stuff keep it up
Ichabod The Ranger
I have an IDS, but I also have a cold dmg wand. I was wondering which one would be more useful?
FoMoCoStang
heck, i can get the collector item one for anyone for 1k... I have to farm for materials
Just got one for myself for my necro. After reading this thread
Just got one for myself for my necro. After reading this thread
heyjohn
Hey, just my two cents
I was playing my N/Me, SS build, running New Tombs the other day, and since I like Spinal Shivers I was using Vilnar's Claw and Glove. I would do the AE/SS thing, and once in a while I would find a good target, and be in a good situation, for Spinal Shivers. It is really neat to interupt a Terrorweb's Meteor, and then Fireball, and then... or even better to totally shut down a Chaos Wurm. Interupting Wurm Seige gives me warm fuzzy feelings. Also, the primary aggroing War will get hexed a lot. So I decided to try Inspired Hex. Helps the War, they lose the Hex, and helps you, you get like nine energy, and Vilnar's gives you five more, but that is really not important.
My opinion is that if you like and use Spinal Shivers, you will like and use Vilnar's. If you do not like Spinal Shiver's, then you will not like Vilnar's.
Hey, just my two cent's
I was playing my N/Me, SS build, running New Tombs the other day, and since I like Spinal Shivers I was using Vilnar's Claw and Glove. I would do the AE/SS thing, and once in a while I would find a good target, and be in a good situation, for Spinal Shivers. It is really neat to interupt a Terrorweb's Meteor, and then Fireball, and then... or even better to totally shut down a Chaos Wurm. Interupting Wurm Seige gives me warm fuzzy feelings. Also, the primary aggroing War will get hexed a lot. So I decided to try Inspired Hex. Helps the War, they lose the Hex, and helps you, you get like nine energy, and Vilnar's gives you five more, but that is really not important.
My opinion is that if you like and use Spinal Shivers, you will like and use Vilnar's. If you do not like Spinal Shiver's, then you will not like Vilnar's.
Hey, just my two cent's