When's the last you did Fissure without the Book Trick?
QuixotesGhost
Every Group I get into nowadays all want to do it (despite my protests). I think the last time I got a bookless FoW group was... about a week and a half ago. 
I'm curious, Do Fissure PuGs that don't do book trick still exist? How common are they? And how the hell do you convince your group not to do it?
EF2NYD
Think before the AoE nerf, but my guild did a few runs after trying out stuff.
Xeno Breaker
Lets see the last time i did fow with out Book was 4 weeks after the game was released. I didnt know about the book yet. Besides people prefer the book because they have a controled invironment. And are able to do the quests that would be a bit harder for them.
dansamy
The book trick makes a Forgemaster trip easy and almost guaranteed. If you've worked and saved to get FoW armor, you don't want to have to get 2, 3 or 4 groups to try to finally get there. You don't want anything to go wrong on your trip to the Forgemaster.
immolatus
I might be ignorant, but what the heckis Book trick?
fintor
Quote:
Originally Posted by immolatus
I might be ignorant, but what the heckis Book trick?
i would like to know also, i have never even heard of this book trick.
Racthoh
It's the cowards way for warriors who don't know how to control aggro. Grab an item (book, gear, torch, etc...) and everything will pretty much attacked the wielder.
Anyway, I'll pretty much drop from any group that does it now. First few times it was fun, then I realized I'd rather have my shield out since controlling aggro isn't that tough.
Anyway, I'll pretty much drop from any group that does it now. First few times it was fun, then I realized I'd rather have my shield out since controlling aggro isn't that tough.
Splatter Mcnasty
book trick has got to be THE most boring way for a warrior to play...all you do is stand there holding the book and activate your various stances/heals in order to stay alive while everyone else does the killing.
Dumb
I go into FoW very often with my guild as the only tank. I run out way ahead and take all the aggro and fight back using various skills. I dont use a single stance or the book, AND i can hold all the aggro just fine.
My guild typically goes down with 2 monks, 5 rangers, and 1 tank.
The rangers are all set up for barrage with increased attack speed and interrupts, and yes, they do most of the killing, but i get to play instead of just stand there.
by the way, that group setup kills faster than any other group i have ever been in.
Book trick = very overrated
Dumb
I go into FoW very often with my guild as the only tank. I run out way ahead and take all the aggro and fight back using various skills. I dont use a single stance or the book, AND i can hold all the aggro just fine.
My guild typically goes down with 2 monks, 5 rangers, and 1 tank.
The rangers are all set up for barrage with increased attack speed and interrupts, and yes, they do most of the killing, but i get to play instead of just stand there.
by the way, that group setup kills faster than any other group i have ever been in.
Book trick = very overrated
Sk8tborderx
I personally stopped using the book trick about a month ago. I have found that groups can clear much faster without it because they have 1 more person doing damage. I have found that most people who use the book trick do so because they don't have enough experience in FoW. Groups that use the book trick almost always have 2 warriors, I only take 1 which is myself. More than 1 warrior is NEVER needed, take a mesmer or barrage/interupt ranger with you. I also think most groups use it because there are a TON of really bad players out there and it is the only way to ensure you can get a good run. I have made a friends list of a lot of people who are good and experienced in FoW, now I never have to make a PUG and know that I will clear at least 3/4 of the whole area even if 3 people leave. If you have teamspeak I would recommend you get into a group or form a group that requires it because you will see much more success in FoW that way.
saphir
augh, i can tell you as a monk the book is as boring as hell
doesn't seem to be a group that does fow w/o it. it's tunnel vision - book trick, go to forgemaster, pick up shards. /yawn
i even ask every time, is there anyone getting armor, is there any pt in going to the crafter? laughs all around, no one is getting armor. well, how about the live forest? drops are nice there. too hard! they cry. but you've got the damned book! i've kept you all alive even before you got it....
i don't go to fow that often anymore as it's so boring, but i've realized 99% of the fow groups are worse than bad. they would last about 2 sec in uw, which is probably why it's so impossible to find a uw group these days.
doesn't seem to be a group that does fow w/o it. it's tunnel vision - book trick, go to forgemaster, pick up shards. /yawn
i even ask every time, is there anyone getting armor, is there any pt in going to the crafter? laughs all around, no one is getting armor. well, how about the live forest? drops are nice there. too hard! they cry. but you've got the damned book! i've kept you all alive even before you got it....
i don't go to fow that often anymore as it's so boring, but i've realized 99% of the fow groups are worse than bad. they would last about 2 sec in uw, which is probably why it's so impossible to find a uw group these days.
The Yoink
booo the book trick, kinda takes the fun and intrigue out of it, doesn't it?
And a monk (such as myself) will grow lazy and spoiled with too much of that sort of nonsense....
And a monk (such as myself) will grow lazy and spoiled with too much of that sort of nonsense....
Yichi
We normally do the book trick when we have someone that needs to get to the crafter in the group, but if we dont, then its all out open fun. Besides with our guilds new fissure build for fissure only, even with using the book trick, any group of mobs only takes a very short time to kill anyway.
masterbeef
Personally whenever my guild/friends go down or I make a pug I never use the book for crafter/clearing. As a tank and a support caster i detest the book. Its no fun just standing there spamming stances the whole time. Ok, it was fun the first time but not anymore. 
Not to mention the book takes longer to get and sometimes the rangers and monks can hurt a team if they fail to drag away.
Not to mention the book takes longer to get and sometimes the rangers and monks can hurt a team if they fail to drag away.
Sergio Leone
Eh isn't the book trick exactly what the stance warriors in SF are doing? So I mean the PUGs who do use the book are probably consisting of, as Racthoh said, cowards OR warriors who don't mind being the meat shield.
BBoy_Manchild
you elitests can claim to be so ub3r 1337 can claim you dont use the book trick, or hate it, bunch of hypocrites
efficiency is what us players that dont have all day to do a run are all about, long live the book trick
efficiency is what us players that dont have all day to do a run are all about, long live the book trick
SammyW
I've never actually used the book trick before, and until I saw this thread I didn't even know it was there.. learn something new everyday I suppose, eh?
Apple
I unashamedly use the book trick. I say this without shame because i never get any good items other than chests (my current total - 3 chests opened, 3 gold req 8 or 9 chaos axes )
)
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild
you elitests can claim to be so ub3r 1337 can claim you dont use the book trick, or hate it, bunch of hypocrites
efficiency is what us players that dont have all day to do a run are all about, long live the book trick Having a warrior who knows how to control aggro is exactly the same as using the book trick. Just he gets to use his shield and have more defense.
How is that hypocritical exactly?
efficiency is what us players that dont have all day to do a run are all about, long live the book trick Having a warrior who knows how to control aggro is exactly the same as using the book trick. Just he gets to use his shield and have more defense.
How is that hypocritical exactly?
Sk8tborderx
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild
you elitests can claim to be so ub3r 1337 can claim you dont use the book trick, or hate it, bunch of hypocrites
efficiency is what us players that dont have all day to do a run are all about, long live the book trick Well if u want to go for efficiency and a shorter time to clear then you woouldnt use the book trick... I have done well over 500 runs and have proven to many people that it is about 2 times faster to clear without it.
efficiency is what us players that dont have all day to do a run are all about, long live the book trick Well if u want to go for efficiency and a shorter time to clear then you woouldnt use the book trick... I have done well over 500 runs and have proven to many people that it is about 2 times faster to clear without it.
QuixotesGhost
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild
you elitests can claim to be so ub3r 1337 can claim you dont use the book trick, or hate it, bunch of hypocrites
efficiency is what us players that dont have all day to do a run are all about, long live the book trick Personally, in PvE, I like to try to push my builds to thier limits. That's why I play. My payoff isn't a shard or ecto drop... it's when my group accidentaly aggros three groups, and pulls through without a single death.
(Predicts snarky "OMFG Noob! PvE is so easy!" comment in the next 5 posts.)
efficiency is what us players that dont have all day to do a run are all about, long live the book trick Personally, in PvE, I like to try to push my builds to thier limits. That's why I play. My payoff isn't a shard or ecto drop... it's when my group accidentaly aggros three groups, and pulls through without a single death.
(Predicts snarky "OMFG Noob! PvE is so easy!" comment in the next 5 posts.)
Shimus DarkRaven
You people underate the book trick! Why? It's also some nice reading matierial.
Medieval playboy the one time, foldout center. Other time it was "how to properly remove sticks from your bum"
/Sarcasm off.
But really, Every other time I go down, I book stance. Why? Hell, it's easy to do! With other stuff round the house like sweeping floors, cooking dinner, it's easy to activate a 17 second stance, walk away, hop back in, activate another, hop back out.
The other times, I get bored and actually do it tanking, which is fun if I can afford the full attention. But that's hard when I'm trying to upkeep a tight house!
Imho, book trick = very good. How? Hold book. Activate Stances. Bring any heal or regeneration geared secondary. Voila. Simplicity in a high-level zone.
to the OP: Since I do it every other time, at least 10-15 times a week. I usually fow 20-35 times a week
--The Shim
Medieval playboy the one time, foldout center. Other time it was "how to properly remove sticks from your bum"
/Sarcasm off.
But really, Every other time I go down, I book stance. Why? Hell, it's easy to do! With other stuff round the house like sweeping floors, cooking dinner, it's easy to activate a 17 second stance, walk away, hop back in, activate another, hop back out.
The other times, I get bored and actually do it tanking, which is fun if I can afford the full attention. But that's hard when I'm trying to upkeep a tight house!
Imho, book trick = very good. How? Hold book. Activate Stances. Bring any heal or regeneration geared secondary. Voila. Simplicity in a high-level zone.
to the OP: Since I do it every other time, at least 10-15 times a week. I usually fow 20-35 times a week
--The Shim
VGJustice
The book trick sounds an aweful lot like the Keg trick in Sorrow's Furnace
I'll grant you that if you're only going in to the the FoW for you armor, by all means, make it as easy as you can. No sense in waiting. But, on the other hand, if you're going in to do the quests, it's not about making it easy, it's about the challenge.
No Challenge == No Fun
Granted, I've only ever gone in to FoW with 4 man Ranger trap groups, but still, it's hard, so it's fun. It's also funny watching everyone die, only to get ressed (again) because I was the only one smart enough to run.
I'll grant you that if you're only going in to the the FoW for you armor, by all means, make it as easy as you can. No sense in waiting. But, on the other hand, if you're going in to do the quests, it's not about making it easy, it's about the challenge.
No Challenge == No Fun
Granted, I've only ever gone in to FoW with 4 man Ranger trap groups, but still, it's hard, so it's fun. It's also funny watching everyone die, only to get ressed (again) because I was the only one smart enough to run.
IMehler
i did fissure often with and without book. its not much difference. cause often the warrior takes too much damage and dies.
masterbeef
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild
you elitests can claim to be so ub3r 1337 can claim you dont use the book trick, or hate it, bunch of hypocrites
efficiency is what us players that dont have all day to do a run are all about, long live the book trick I have found that with experienced guild groups and pugs alike, it is quicker, hence more efficient to skip the book trick entirely. Also, there are less chances for error using the book trick (like when the bored to tears wammo switches weapons sets to see what would happen and the book drops scattering that group of 7-8 shadow beasts everywhere.
efficiency is what us players that dont have all day to do a run are all about, long live the book trick I have found that with experienced guild groups and pugs alike, it is quicker, hence more efficient to skip the book trick entirely. Also, there are less chances for error using the book trick (like when the bored to tears wammo switches weapons sets to see what would happen and the book drops scattering that group of 7-8 shadow beasts everywhere.
Archaic Nightmare
We used the book trick the other night when we were reduced to a group of five. However, an earth ele did the holding and was so much more succesful as all the warriors had left. Hardly had to heal with his elemental armour and ward yet he was still able to deal major damage. Would have been impossible (or nearly) with no remaining warriors. Probably the most fun I've had in FOW yet we all got clobbered by the spiders later. Would def try again at some point but usually never bother.
Jakerius
Quote:
"Where the hell is Shim?"
"Probably off cleaning or some shit again"
I have never heard about this book trick 'til now, however it just seems like an easy way for amateur warriors to control aggro on themselves.
Thock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
Having a warrior who knows how to control aggro is exactly the same as using the book trick. Just he gets to use his shield and have more defense.
Good luck finding a warrior smart enough to get and hold aggro that isn’t in a guild/friends only group. I think the books title is "Aggro Control For Dummies." So many people have quit the game recently I'm lucky to find a tank with a vocabulary that consists of words with more than four letters. So unless I know the warrior, he is getting the book/gear/keg.
Yichi
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMehler
i did fissure often with and without book. its not much difference. cause often the warrior takes too much damage and dies.
get better monks.
Shimus DarkRaven
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakerius
Yeah, I can see how you would be useful to your group.
"Where the hell is Shim?"
"Probably off cleaning or some shit again"
I have never heard about this book trick 'til now, however it just seems like an easy way for amateur warriors to control aggro on themselves. Hey. Don't argue if it works. And I never get caught when I'm away. I was being sarcastic.
If it works, don't fix it. Aka, Nerfing. Don't do it. Now with real bugs, like that +20 +20 Axe, that's a bug that needs fixed. Don't nerf things that work.
Amateur Warriors eh? How bout amateur other members that would die if not for the book trick? People don't know how to aggro if it bit them on the face. Hence, Keg Farming, Gear Farming, and the Book trick just make it easier for the monks and everyone in general. It's not going against anything. Cool down :P
--The Shim
"Where the hell is Shim?"
"Probably off cleaning or some shit again"
I have never heard about this book trick 'til now, however it just seems like an easy way for amateur warriors to control aggro on themselves. Hey. Don't argue if it works. And I never get caught when I'm away. I was being sarcastic.
If it works, don't fix it. Aka, Nerfing. Don't do it. Now with real bugs, like that +20 +20 Axe, that's a bug that needs fixed. Don't nerf things that work.
Amateur Warriors eh? How bout amateur other members that would die if not for the book trick? People don't know how to aggro if it bit them on the face. Hence, Keg Farming, Gear Farming, and the Book trick just make it easier for the monks and everyone in general. It's not going against anything. Cool down :P
--The Shim
Sol_Vie
I've never used the book trick. I've always had marvelous success. Any shortcomings in a group come forth before we get to the plains.
Sereng Amaranth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaic Nightmare
We used the book trick the other night when we were reduced to a group of five. However, an earth ele did the holding and was so much more succesful as all the warriors had left. Hardly had to heal with his elemental armour and ward yet he was still able to deal major damage. Would have been impossible (or nearly) with no remaining warriors. Probably the most fun I've had in FOW yet we all got clobbered by the spiders later. Would def try again at some point but usually never bother.
Hah, I dont know if that was me, but I've used Kinetic Armor and the tome after the warrior dropped before. And as was said, my ele can still fight. Actually, she must fight to stay alive.
One of my last FoW runs was with a pro group. We ran thru Tower of Courage, Wailing Lord and Griffons without the tome. The single warrior was leading, and controlling aggro 100%. Best group ever in FoW. I hate to go back now.
One of my last FoW runs was with a pro group. We ran thru Tower of Courage, Wailing Lord and Griffons without the tome. The single warrior was leading, and controlling aggro 100%. Best group ever in FoW. I hate to go back now.
Knightmayre
Ahhhhhhhhh.... Now I finally "get" the idea of "Gear/Stance" builds. I understood the "Stance" part, but never knew how the Gear part helped. I assumed that some of the missions must require carrying Kegs or gears.
BAH HUMBUG!!! I WANT TO SWING MY HAMMER!!!
BAH HUMBUG!!! I WANT TO SWING MY HAMMER!!!
animeba
"One of my last FoW runs was with a pro group. We ran thru Tower of Courage, Wailing Lord and Griffons without the tome. The single warrior was leading, and controlling aggro 100%. Best group ever in FoW. I hate to go back now. "
Doing the griffon mission without book is fairly suicidal & unwise. The griffon will rush into the battle and your monks will have to keep all of them alive. You should be thanking your monk, not the warrior, if you did the griffon mission successfully without book.
Guild wars does not have a sophisticated aggro manage system.
The warrior has no skills that will IMMEDIATELY attract aggro from nearby monster that is killing his teammate. While experienced players will stay out of a warriors aggro bubble, most PUG players will not do so. The book trick is just a proven way to control aggro to complete missions, and get loot. It is extremely efficient, allowing you to bring enemy fighers together with the enemy casters. AOE with meteor shower & other skills to quickly kill a group <15 secs.
If someone has an efficient way to control aggro with PUG members without the book, please share your wisdom.
Doing the griffon mission without book is fairly suicidal & unwise. The griffon will rush into the battle and your monks will have to keep all of them alive. You should be thanking your monk, not the warrior, if you did the griffon mission successfully without book.
Guild wars does not have a sophisticated aggro manage system.
The warrior has no skills that will IMMEDIATELY attract aggro from nearby monster that is killing his teammate. While experienced players will stay out of a warriors aggro bubble, most PUG players will not do so. The book trick is just a proven way to control aggro to complete missions, and get loot. It is extremely efficient, allowing you to bring enemy fighers together with the enemy casters. AOE with meteor shower & other skills to quickly kill a group <15 secs.
If someone has an efficient way to control aggro with PUG members without the book, please share your wisdom.
QuixotesGhost
Quote:
Originally Posted by animeba
Quote:
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If someone has an efficient way to control aggro with PUG members without the book, please share your wisdom.
I feel one of the biggest weakness of the makeup most PvE PuGs is the overreliance on the warrior holding aggro. Most groups are happy to take up to 3 fire eles. Fire is a great line for a mobs bunched around a warrior, but if that aggro breaks... Yep, fat lot of good that echo'ed meteor shower is going to do against fast moving targets. There are a ton of skills out there that make aggro break such a non-issue if it happens. Throw Dirt, Traps, Enfeeble, Shadow of Fear, Wards, hell even Protection magic does it as long as people don't run around like chickens with thier head cut off as soon as they get protted. So to answer you question... No, I don't have the magic bullet to control aggro 100% of the time. But I take skills to plan for the contingency in case it breaks. In my current builds, I have Whirlwind on my Warrior, Enfeeble+Shadow of Fear on my Mesmer, Protective Spirit on my monk, on my Ranger I take an Oath Shotted Throw Dirt with Traps. On my ranger in particular, I often trap the caster nearest to the warrior, it's the perfect failsafe.
Sk8tborderx
Quote:
Originally Posted by animeba
Doing the griffon mission without book is fairly suicidal & unwise.
LOL, sorry i just think it is funny when people think this quest is difficult without the book. All you have to do is have 1 person and 1 person ONLY to take the quest and the griffons will stay put. If they griffons follo you just run close to the first group of skeletons and DO NOT MOVE have 1 person (an ele, ranger, or 2nd warrior if u have 2) run back to the wailing lord, the griffons will stay with that person and not run back to the rest of the group. If you have problems against the small groups of skeletons with 7 people then your group sucks in the first place.
animeba
Quote:
LOL, sorry i just think it is funny when people think this quest is difficult without the book. All you have to do is have 1 person and 1 person ONLY to take the quest and the griffons will stay put.
That's great if everyone knows what they are doing and listens. Obviously, this rarely occurs with a FoW PUG. More than one person will take the quest. Once one of the griffons die, whole team dies. Everyone loses the chance to get exp from both Wailing & Griffon. | Too many people assume they have an "ideal" group. But unless you are fortunate enough to have enough friend/guildies online at the same time wanting to do fow, you aren't going to find an "ideal" group with PUG.
JMFD
Last time I was in the FoW we didnt do the book trick and did quite well... forgmaster series done happily, and some beach/forest farming too. About a week ago.
QuixotesGhost
Quote:
Originally Posted by animeba
Too many people assume they have an "ideal" group. But unless you are fortunate enough to have enough friend/guildies online at the same time wanting to do fow, you aren't going to find an "ideal" group with PUG.
PuGs are better than most people give them credit for. It's just that one idiot you sometimes get that everyone takes as a reflection of the rest of the group and of Puggers in general.
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimus DarkRaven
Amateur Warriors eh? How bout amateur other members that would die if not for the book trick? People don't know how to aggro if it bit them on the face. Hence, Keg Farming, Gear Farming, and the Book trick just make it easier for the monks and everyone in general. It's not going against anything. Cool down :P
They'll continue to stay amateur if they continue to rely on the same tricks. I don't think the team is learning anything when they could turn off their radar and continue with the same success.
The griffons follow movement, someone moves they come to that person. Case and point, I had a group in the Underworld that took the dreaded Unwanted Guests and Escort the souls at the same time. Impossible scenario? Hardly. We would send the warrior in to get the Keeper of Souls, and stand there attacking. At which point, I would continue to move around ensuring the souls stayed back with me as my monk. The souls never took a single point of damage since with a little coaching the warrior took the aggro safely while the rest stayed back. The warrior took a few deaths since the Vengeful Aaxte wouldn't die unless everything they were aggroing was dead even after the Keeper's death (useful tip, remember it). One person in a group of eight can make the PUG suck, take one person who has a fair knowledge of the area and those other seven can improve upon their game. You wonder why there are so few warriors who don't know how to control aggro. No one will tell them how, or no one will let them when they want to. Feed a man a fish... you know the rest.
Sk8tborderx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
One person in a group of eight can make the PUG suck, take one person who has a fair knowledge of the area and those other seven can improve upon their game. You wonder why there are so few warriors who don't know how to control aggro. No one will tell them how, or no one will let them when they want to. Feed a man a fish... you know the rest.
I agree, I made my warrior back before any of the book, keg, gear tricks were out so I learned how to get and hold aggro, something that 97% of the warriors playing the game can't do without it. I personally hate the fact that everyone thinks warriors should always go as stance and do nothing but take aggro, I NEVER go stance and hold aggro fine the only thing i use to reduce damage is dolyak signet and I always get a few people in the group that are amazed at how much a warrior actually can help with damage (I can solo the priest of menzies). I wouldn't care and would actually be happy if they did nerf the book trick (I'm not saying to nerf it) because it would weed out the bad/inexperienced players very quickly. It is because of the book/gear/keg trick that I go as the only warrior in my group. (that and you will NEVER need more than 1)
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