Warriors Treated Special?
Gophurt
I was thinking about the different runes that are available, and I was wondering, is there any good reason that warriors get 2 extra runes that don't effect a stat? Why not give runes to caster profs that legthen enchant duration or give them the absorption runes as well?
Shimus DarkRaven
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Originally Posted by Gophurt
I was thinking about the different runes that are available, and I was wondering, is there any good reason that warriors get 2 extra runes that don't effect a stat? Why not give runes to caster profs that legthen enchant duration or give them the absorption runes as well?
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<Tactics, Strength, Sword/Hammer/Axe Mastery> Nothing seems out of place..anyways
Why give casters absorpt? With their armor, it's not gunna make a whole lot of difference if they duck a couple damage. Now, with warriors, seeing as they rely on it, I can give that idea a thumbsup.
Now I agree casters SHOULD get something, maybe if not absorption like a minor/major/superior energy pool rune, effectively like adding +3, +5, +8, with same penalties, or something along those lines. Casters can already get enchantment lasts longer weapon mods, so giving them a rune like that would make no sense.
--The Shim
Sentao Nugra
shim, he meant one + vigor. which is where you got confused. and i was having the same epiphany the other day bout this so...
/signed
/signed
Avair Strabain
/signed
Como Fort
/not signed
As a Caster myself, I wouldn't think of giving us anymore benefits than we already have. Warriors are the ones in the traps, in the meteor storms, in the melee, so they deserve that extra rune.
As a Caster myself, I wouldn't think of giving us anymore benefits than we already have. Warriors are the ones in the traps, in the meteor storms, in the melee, so they deserve that extra rune.
Deadlyjunk
Warriors are already the worst class by far... they deserve 3 points of damage reduction that nobody else has.
/not signed
/not signed
Lun-Sei
As I also have a warrior character, I can know that they -do- need that Absorption rune. Aren't warriors supposed to be the meat shields? That extra rune they got is just plain necessary.
/not signed
/not signed
Shimus DarkRaven
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Originally Posted by Sentao Nugra
shim, he meant one + vigor. which is where you got confused. and i was having the same epiphany the other day bout this so...
/signed |
No. /Notsigned.
--The Shim
Hannibel
/not signed
as was pointed out warriors are the meat shields, they have to attack from close up they have no primary ranged attacks on up close melee that's why they get the extra armor, and -dmg reduction for up close fights against other melee foes.
as was pointed out warriors are the meat shields, they have to attack from close up they have no primary ranged attacks on up close melee that's why they get the extra armor, and -dmg reduction for up close fights against other melee foes.
Jetdoc
/not signed. Warriors can only use skills from one of their weapon attributes, while caster classes can use skills from ALL of their spell attributes. That's an imbalance already.
BrandonIT
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Originally Posted by Gophurt
Why not give runes to caster profs that legthen enchant duration or give them the absorption runes as well?
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Guardian of the Light
ROFL
LOL you forgot that other professions can get Vigor too
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And -3 damage doesn't really make a difference. "O wow I got Sup absortion now I'll get owned by that ele in 3 seconds instead of 2"
Besides Casters have too mnay wand conbo things
LOL you forgot that other professions can get Vigor too
.And -3 damage doesn't really make a difference. "O wow I got Sup absortion now I'll get owned by that ele in 3 seconds instead of 2"
Besides Casters have too mnay wand conbo things
actionjack
/sign on more Rune types
make it like 10 different kinds...
make it like 10 different kinds...
Fungus Amongus
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Originally Posted by actionjack
/sign on more Rune types
make it like 10 different kinds... |
Seriously, let warriors have the absorption runes so they can tank to make up for their slightly less damage output. Casters will complain about warriors tanking until the warrior is taking hits for said caster.
Shimus DarkRaven
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Originally Posted by Fungus Amongus
While we're at it, lets make runewords.
Seriously, let warriors have the absorption runes so they can tank to make up for their slightly less damage output. Casters will complain about warriors tanking until the warrior is taking hits for said caster. |
Though, Casters should still get some kind of rune themselves, so it would stop this hard feeling. Be creative and create a caster rune.
--The Shim
jibikao
I would love to see special runes for each class. Be creative A.Net.
I don't think the Absorption rune is "imbalanced" but it is UNFAIR that warrior has one more rune. lol "Why does warrior have one more rune!!!" lol That's the feeling, you know.
I don't think the Absorption rune is "imbalanced" but it is UNFAIR that warrior has one more rune. lol "Why does warrior have one more rune!!!" lol That's the feeling, you know.
ghezbora
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
/not signed. Warriors can only use skills from one of their weapon attributes, while caster classes can use skills from ALL of their spell attributes. That's an imbalance already.
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There are very few spells that are worth using with no or very few points in the attribute. So I wouldn't consider this an imbalance at all. Just because it is technically possible to use spells from all the lines doesn't mean it doesn't suck so hard that anyone would ever actually do it.
/signed
Although I think +energy runes should probably be like vigor, warriors should be able to use those too, so not a good example to address the OP issue of "warriors get an extra rune." Each class needs a special one, and that's harder. Maybe something like these:
Elementalist Rune of Stamina
Exhaustion reduced by 1/2/3 max energy penalty (i.e. each time you incur exhaustion it is only 9/8/7 energy)
Necromancer Rune of Vitality
Minions gain +1/2/3 health regeneration
Mesmer Rune of Recharge
Your mesmer spells recharge 5/10/15 percent faster
Monk Rune of Efficiency
Your monk spells cost 5/10/15 percent less energy
Ranger Rune of Accuracy
Your bows shoot 5/10/15 feet farther and your arrows move 5/10/15 percent faster
I thought these up in like 5 minutes just now so they may have horrible, horrible balance flaws I'm not imagining, but I think something along this train of thought would add to the game
Orbberius
Warriors need all the help they can get from runes.
"unsigned"
"unsigned"
jibikao
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Originally Posted by ghezbora
This isn't really true. As a Warrior, you get your weapon line, strength, tactics, and your secondary, to mix and match to whatever degree you like. As a monk, I get Healing or Protection (one of the two 99% of the time, only when I'm the only monk do I use both) and DF, and I can put a few points into inspiration or blood (for OoB) sometimes if I like. 2-3 attributes either way, basically.
There are very few spells that are worth using with no or very few points in the attribute. So I wouldn't consider this an imbalance at all. Just because it is technically possible to use spells from all the lines doesn't mean it doesn't suck so hard that anyone would ever actually do it. /signed Although I think +energy runes should probably be like vigor, warriors should be able to use those too, so not a good example to address the OP issue of "warriors get an extra rune." Each class needs a special one, and that's harder. Maybe something like these: Elementalist Rune of Stamina Exhaustion reduced by 1/2/3 max energy penalty (i.e. each time you incur exhaustion it is only 9/8/7 energy) Necromancer Rune of Vitality Minions gain +1/2/3 health regeneration Mesmer Rune of Recharge Your mesmer spells recharge 5/10/15 percent faster Monk Rune of Efficiency Your monk spells cost 5/10/15 percent less energy Ranger Rune of Accuracy Your bows shoot 5/10/15 feet farther and your arrows move 5/10/15 percent faster I thought these up in like 5 minutes just now so they may have horrible, horrible balance flaws I'm not imagining, but I think something along this train of thought would add to the game |
But I like Elementalist's rune idea. -1 to -3 for Exhaustion but to get -3, the Ele will lose 75 health. That's a good trade off.
As for Rangers... I am not sure if bow distance is a good idea. Long bow already has very long distance. Since I am a beast master, I actually don't mind if there are runes that improve pet. Something like +1 - +3 for pet's reaction speed. Their reaction is too slow right now. Without Call of Haste, it takes 2-3s for the pet to initial attacks and if the target is kiting, it's even worse. Maybe a rune can improve that aspect? I mean most beast masters don't need tons of runes anyway.
As for Monk, energy reduction will be too overpowering. A.Net's gotta be creative for this one.
Mesmer already has fast casting. Having rune to improve that will be too overpowering IMO.
Necro's idea is good but +3 regen means the minions have no degen. That defeats the purpose of some of Necro's death skills like Verata's Sacrifice. But maybe runes that can increase the max health of minions will be a good idea...much like Vigor rune for Minions.
ghezbora
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Originally Posted by jibikao
Sorry no offense but some of your rune suggestions are way too overpowering. Monk's spells cost less? A lot of spells already cost 5E. I don't think you can go any lower than that. That will make Monks way too powerful. I like new ideas but I think those runes will be way overpowering than Absorption.
But I like Elementalist's rune idea. -1 to -3 for Exhaustion but to get -3, the Ele will lose 75 health. That's a good trade off. As for Rangers... I am not sure if bow distance is a good idea. Long bow already has very long distance. Since I am a beast master, I actually don't mind if there are runes that improve pet. Something like +1 - +3 for pet's reaction speed. Their reaction is too slow right now. Without Call of Haste, it takes 2-3s for the pet to initial attacks and if the target is kiting, it's even worse. Maybe a rune can improve that aspect? I mean most beast masters don't need tons of runes anyway. As for Monk, energy reduction will be too overpowering. A.Net's gotta be creative for this one. Mesmer already has fast casting. Having rune to improve that will be too overpowering IMO. Necro's idea is good but +3 regen means the minions have no degen. That defeats the purpose of some of Necro's death skills like Verata's Sacrifice. But maybe runes that can increase the max health of minions will be a good idea...much like Vigor rune for Minions. |
1) these were really just to give a flavor of what sort of runes should be in the game. only the elementalist one is one that i really think is viable as-is. as i stated, i just thought of these in like 5 minutes.
2) for monk energy reduction, it's actually not overpowering because of the way GW truncates. a 15% reduction doesn't have any effect on a 5e spell. .15*5=.75, which truncates to 0, so 5-0=5. it works just like expertise. I'm just at a loss as to what else a monk would need besides some help with energy management...
3) the mesmer rune isn't increasing fast casting, it's faster recharge. i felt like that would go hand-in-hand with fast casting nicely.
4) +3 regen doesnt mean the minions have no degen. the minions have ever increasing degen, up to -10. so it just means they have less degen. vigor for minions is essentially the same, just increases minion duration/durability.
edit:
forgot to address rangers
5) yeah, for the ranger rune, i really couldn't think of anything to be honest, lol. adding range seemed like something that might be useful that isn't raising an attribute, so that's what i put
i'd love to hear other suggestions though
Fye Duron
/not signed
I understand the want of another rune, but Warrors need the extra rune since they are the meat sheild.
I understand the want of another rune, but Warrors need the extra rune since they are the meat sheild.
jibikao
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Originally Posted by ghezbora
You seem to have missed a few points in my post, so I'll try to clarify.
1) these were really just to give a flavor of what sort of runes should be in the game. only the elementalist one is one that i really think is viable as-is. as i stated, i just thought of these in like 5 minutes. 2) for monk energy reduction, it's actually not overpowering because of the way GW truncates. a 15% reduction doesn't have any effect on a 5e spell. .15*5=.75, which truncates to 0, so 5-0=5. it works just like expertise. I'm just at a loss as to what else a monk would need besides some help with energy management... 3) the mesmer rune isn't increasing fast casting, it's faster recharge. i felt like that would go hand-in-hand with fast casting nicely. 4) +3 regen doesnt mean the minions have no degen. the minions have ever increasing degen, up to -10. so it just means they have less degen. vigor for minions is essentially the same, just increases minion duration/durability. edit: forgot to address rangers 5) yeah, for the ranger rune, i really couldn't think of anything to be honest, lol. adding range seemed like something that might be useful that isn't raising an attribute, so that's what i put i'd love to hear other suggestions though |
I guess the reason who don't see "special runes" is that it's harder to balance the game through items than through skills. Faster recharge runes will need tons of testing to make sure they are not over powering on Mesmers. There's only a few skills in the game that can improve recharge and I guess it's easier to balance the game through those skills.
I think the Absorption rune was designed after they thought warriors need more to tank in PvE. They can simply design one absorption rune to make sure Warrior isn't "underpowered" due to their need for close combat. With the +3 absorption and huge physical resistance, warrior monsters can't do enough damage on warriors at all.
ghezbora
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Originally Posted by Fye Duron
Warrors need the extra rune since they are the meat sheild.
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The fact that meat shield is the warrior's typical role, while true, does not imply they need an extra rune.
Perhaps you meant to say "Warriors need an extra rune since they're the weakest class anyway" -- note I'm not making this claim, I'm just trying to understand yours.
nunix
What about an Energy Regen rune? +1, +2, and +3 pips, with the usual -health problems, and I think it's a better solution than a simple flat +EP.
necromesmer
/signed - I believe we should have a couple new runes. It would add better custimazation to the game.
Kai Nui
/signed, but I'm saying not giving absorbtion to everyone, but a rune that isn't associated with stats for other professions.
Extra Life Storage for monks
Extra Defense for mesmers
Greater Area of effect for elementalists
Life gaining with soul reaping for necros (since they don't have any skills and just get energy from soul reaping)
Arc shot rune for rangers, so they can shoot around obstacles (for instance, you couldn't shoot so that it disobeys the laws of physics, but like when you're shooting up at someone/thing and you can't get it over the wall or something, it'd be able to fly over the wall and come down.)
I think these aren't any more powerful than absorbtion, and their effects would only be very slightly noticeable.
Extra Life Storage for monks
Extra Defense for mesmers
Greater Area of effect for elementalists
Life gaining with soul reaping for necros (since they don't have any skills and just get energy from soul reaping)
Arc shot rune for rangers, so they can shoot around obstacles (for instance, you couldn't shoot so that it disobeys the laws of physics, but like when you're shooting up at someone/thing and you can't get it over the wall or something, it'd be able to fly over the wall and come down.)
I think these aren't any more powerful than absorbtion, and their effects would only be very slightly noticeable.
Super_Nerd0
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Originally Posted by Fye Duron
/not signed
I understand the want of another rune, but Warrors need the extra rune since they are the meat sheild. |
Maybe what the warrior really needs are opening attacks like slamming your weapon against the ground so that a shockwave or some ground can hit the enemy.That way the warrior wont be in fighting close range for as long as normal.
Or it would just offset the warriors purpose and make all the other classes unwanted.
TGgold
/not signed
I don't think classes should get new runes, but I'd like to see new armor pieces that are unique (like the bloodstained boots) for all classes.
Elementalists: Increases Duration of AoE Spells / Increases range of AoE spells
Mesmers: Decrease Recharge Time of Mesmer Spells / Increase Duration of Hexes
Rangers: Decrease Casting Times for traps / Decrease Casting Times for Spirits
Monks: Decrease Casting Times for Ressuretion Spells.
Of course, you'd have to find a suitable place to put each of these things.
I don't think classes should get new runes, but I'd like to see new armor pieces that are unique (like the bloodstained boots) for all classes.
Elementalists: Increases Duration of AoE Spells / Increases range of AoE spells
Mesmers: Decrease Recharge Time of Mesmer Spells / Increase Duration of Hexes
Rangers: Decrease Casting Times for traps / Decrease Casting Times for Spirits
Monks: Decrease Casting Times for Ressuretion Spells.
Of course, you'd have to find a suitable place to put each of these things.
William Sunrider
/not signed
agent of ascalon
warriors are usually the 1st people to go to combat, the ones who get there ass beat most of the time, and they need that dmg reduce to get the extra life duration so they can protect there team
Sagius Truthbarron
/not signed
Seems like it would leave warriors at a disadvantage as far as runes go.
The elementalist already has 6 [i]usable[i] runes. Every other class has 5, the warrior has 5.
Seems like it would leave warriors at a disadvantage as far as runes go.
The elementalist already has 6 [i]usable[i] runes. Every other class has 5, the warrior has 5.
Kai Nui
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Originally Posted by agent of ascalon
warriors are usually the 1st people to go to combat, the ones who get there ass beat most of the time, and they need that dmg reduce to get the extra life duration so they can protect there team
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