Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aiwahead
For that matter, how does the storage follow you around the world?
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Game updates incoming
Mountain Man
Jab
That one part about updating the missions, so does that mean there are more missions in those areas, or the missions themselves have been changed.
Kordesh
Yeah 1P really isn't that much once you hit lvl 20. I mean, you run out of things to really buy. Their only choice is to put in some money sinks that are worth it, or let the gold mount up, the economy go downhill, and watch gold get ebayed in droves.
Dumb Quixote
Quote:
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Originally Posted by filter
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The Fox
YES! Nothing was nerfed! None of the imbalance whinners got there way! Oh, this is great!
Bamelin
Hopefully the problems with PvP players being forced to grind through unnessecary PvE content will be addressed in the update after this one.
Aside from that the current update is ok even if it does seem a little off the mark given the current rift in the community over the system of obtaining elites.
Aside from that the current update is ok even if it does seem a little off the mark given the current rift in the community over the system of obtaining elites.
madog
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Synthos
Im actually slightly concerned about the gold being allowed in the drop box, you could set your new charecters up for life with the amount of gold that you get later on in the game. If that really affects anything? Im not sure.
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You still have to fight your way to the cities that sell better armor, after all.
filter
Update – Wednesday May 11
Quote:
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Major changes to PvP Arenas! Previously, each Arena had a separate outpost. When you joined an Arena, you continued playing on that map repeatedly until you lost. Now, the various high-level Arena maps all share a common outpost. When you enter the high-level Arena, you’ll play on many different maps with many different victory conditions, and you’ll need to master all the maps to keep on winning. After each consecutive PvP victory, the game now displays the number of consecutive wins. A new screen at the end of PvP character creation allows you to choose the starting location of your PvP character. We retired the old “Dazed," “Shock Sniper," “Divine Healer.” and “Trapper” PvP-only character templates, and rotated in some new templates, including three new templates created by guilds that won our April ladder contest. Additionally, we tweaked the skills of many other PvP character templates. These changes only affect the creation of new characters; existing characters created with an old template may continue to use that old template. You can now store gold in your account storage vault! The vault can store up to 1000 platinum pieces, and individual characters can now hold a maximum of 100 platinum pieces. PvP-only characters can now access the account storage vault for free. Entering “The Underworld” now costs 1 platinum piece, the same as entering “The Fissure of Woe." Rewards in both maps have been significantly improved. New quests! In Post-Searing Ascalon: “The Weaver of Nebo” and “Iron Horse War Machine." In “The Fissure of Woe:” “Tower of Courage," “The Wailing Lord," “A Gift of Griffons," “Army of Darkness," “The Eternal Forgemaster," “Defend the Temple of War," and “Restore the Temple of War." Primary quests in Pre-Searing Ascalon now chain together, making it more straightforward for new players to complete Pre-Searing Ascalon and gain entrance to the Academy. Increased drop rates for Uncommon and Rare items in Explorable Areas. Implemented various minor fixes and clarifications to existing quests. Implemented various tweaks to monster difficulty and loot balance. Added new boss monster encounters in the “Ring of Fire” area. Added new bonuses on certain collector and quest items. Instituted skill changes: “Watch Yourself!” correctly affects characters who were already affected by another instance of the skill. “Firestorm” now continues to cast even if the target enemy dies during spellcasting. We’ll revise other area-effect spells to work this way in future updates. The party window and account storage windows now correctly remember their position and size. There are many new hints displayed in Pre-Searing Ascalon, and a new option to disable the display of hints. When you gain a level, a button now appears prompting you to spend your newly acquired attribute points. Quest destination points now appear on both the Map Area and Map Travel windows. Most NPC text is now logged to the chat window, as well as being displayed in game. Implemented various minor fixes to UI. Fixed crafters recognizing high-level crafting items. Fixed problems which caused excessive scarcity of Fur Squares, Linen, and Silk. Implemented fixes for incorrect behavior when a player or party disconnects before the beginning of a competitive game. Implemented fixes for miscellaneous rare crash bugs. Added the ability to change postal mailing address on account. Improved hardware compatibility. |
Shinsei
Quote:
| Implemented fixes to not require players to farm day and night to be competetive in PvP. |
modru2004
i don't like the 1k to enter the level. the levels are hard enough as is let alone penalizing us 1k just to enter. unlike some of you i don't have a super wealthy char. and yes im an ascended lvl 20. i think i might have 7 k right now. and thats from 2-3 worth of playing. 4 hours at least per day.
Typhoon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shinsei
Oh wait, I was just dreaming
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It would be nice to have a 15-28 damage gold bow with +damage above 50% health on my RP cherater, yes. But if I really, REALLY want to use that bow ingame, I can grab one automaticaly by creating a PvP character. Is that not enough for you?
Miral
What the... everything relating to these updates just like... disappeared form the website...
Shinsei
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miral
What the... everything relating to these updates just like... disappeared form the website...
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Hemisphere
After 5 runs in Riverside, noticed they nerfed the crap out of giants 
Sublett
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shinsei
Oh wait, I was just dreaming
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Moving on to the actual topic.. Great patch! Quite a big one too.. Keep up the good work
*snicker*
Temken
Does this mean rares will be more evenly distributed among the players? I play a 17 R/W and for one am sick of one person in the group getting 5 purple or gold items in a row, while I get a common cane that's 5-8 dmg. The only thing that seems to get distributed fairly is cash. Since I have been completing missions with pickup groups and not guild groups, my groupmates aren't exactly forthcoming in handing out items given to them that they cannot use. Small hint: Monk/mesmers do not use bows or swords very well. I hope that this has been or will be addressed in the future cause it's been bugging me since I saw the first rares drop in the ice peaks.
Alex Weekes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shinsei
Oh wait, I was just dreaming
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Quote:
| Increased drop rates for Uncommon and Rare items in Explorable Areas. |
Shinsei
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alex Weekes
Loot drops have been redistributed, and over all it should now be easier for players to locate item upgrade and rune unlocks. It's just that players might need to adjust their farming locations.
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Twinking the loot drops doesn't remove the grind it takes to become competetive. Far from it actually.
Mimu
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shinsei
Ok, so this means we'll have to find a new spot to enter - kill specific mobs - exit - repeat. As oh so fun as that sounds, it's not my main beef. I find myself spending much more time entering - checking boss - rezoning, just to find the right boss with the right skill. Not to mention the time it takes the restart the game with other characters of 2 seperate classes to get the other skills I want.
Twinking the loot drops doesn't remove the grind it takes to become competetive. Far from it actually. |
You have to actually make an effort and spend a few hours exploring in an online game before becoming "1337 Pkz0rz?"
Try playing an mmorpg like Warcraft..I think you'll find that this requires you to (I've never played it, but this is just what I gather.) spend hours and hours levelling in order to experience the pvp side properly?
Well compared to that, I think you will find that there is minimal grind contained in Guild Wars, so stop whining and accept that you're not going to get an ultimate character from when you first install the game.
I used to play a game called Runescape..in order to get to the level of a true pker who could actually do some damage and make a profit in the process you had to spend around 6-12 months of pve, grinding out the levels..compare that to the, what..3 weeks of exploration required to get some decent runes and skills in Guild Wars?
Xellos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shinsei
Ok, so this means we'll have to find a new spot to enter - kill specific mobs - exit - repeat. As oh so fun as that sounds, it's not my main beef. I find myself spending much more time entering - checking boss - rezoning, just to find the right boss with the right skill. Not to mention the time it takes to "rebeat" the game with other characters of 2 seperate classes to get the other skills I want.
Twinking the loot drops doesn't remove the grind it takes to become competetive. Far from it actually. |
chalt2
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shinsei
Ok, so this means we'll have to find a new spot to enter - kill specific mobs - exit - repeat. As oh so fun as that sounds, it's not my main beef. I find myself spending much more time entering - checking boss - rezoning, just to find the right boss with the right skill. Not to mention the time it takes to "rebeat" the game with other characters of 2 seperate classes to get the other skills I want.
Twinking the loot drops doesn't remove the grind it takes to become competetive. Far from it actually. |
Or maybe spend some more time IN-Game and less time in here complaining about how bad it is, for YOU.
Shinsei
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mimu
Shock!
You have to actually make an effort and spend a few hours exploring in an online game before becoming "1337 Pkz0rz?" Try playing an mmorpg like Warcraft..I think you'll find that this requires you to (I've never played it, but this is just what I gather.) spend hours and hours levelling in order to experience the pvp side properly? Well compared to that, I think you will find that there is minimal grind contained in Guild Wars, so stop whining and accept that you're not going to get an ultimate character from when you first install the game. I used to play a game called Runescape..in order to get to the level of a true pker who could actually do some damage and make a profit in the process you had to spend around 6-12 months of pve, grinding out the levels..compare that to the, what..3 weeks of exploration required to get some decent runes and skills in Guild Wars? |
First of all, if you have gotten through all the PvE content and are trying to make a PvP competetive account (which I doubt that you've reached yet considering your reply), you would notice that no, it's not just a few hours of grinding the repeative farming routes. It's days. The first 50 hours of my /age is what it took me to get through the game. The other 150+ is from farming riverside or trying to find the right boss, and I'm very far from getting what I want to PvP.
Now, comparing this to something like WoW was a very poor argument, as first of all, the idea of this game was that you don't have to grind this amount of time at all for what you want. As stated by "the pvp whiners" (i think that's what a.net and the "PvE'ers" like to refer to us as) a million times over, the concept of this game is that it's not about hours played, but how you play. Meaning that there shouldn't be items or skills that make you "better" than others, and if there are, they should be fairly easy to get and not be exclusive only to those willing to go through the grind for them.
I think you fail to see that GW was not supposed to be your common MMORPG where accomplishments gave you statistical advantages over your competition, but it seems as if that's what it turned in to. A.net was on the right track with asthetic rewards instead of rewarding us with skills/runes for hard accomplishments. It's a shame they haven't yet gone full out with it.
With respect to the thread's topic, I'll choose to end the discussion (on my part atleast), and not reply to more on this matter.
Mimu
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shinsei
From this, I can see the discussion is getting out of hand and probably should stop, however I would like to take the time to answer a few of the points you brought up first.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shinsei
First of all, if you have gotten through all the PvE content and are trying to make a PvP competetive account (which I doubt that you've reached yet considering your reply), you would notice that no, it's not just a few hours of grinding the repeative farming routes. It's days. The first 50 hours of my /age is what it took me to get through the game. The other 150+ is from farming riverside or trying to find the right boss, and I'm very far from getting what I want to PvP.
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I would have to say..surely you do not have to get every elite skill and rune? If people who do have them all hold an advantage over those who don't, it's only because they spent the time earning them..
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shinsei
Now, comparing this to something like WoW was a very poor argument, as first of all, the idea of this game was that you don't have to grind this amount of time at all for what you want. As stated by "the pvp whiners" (i think that's what a.net and the "PvE'ers" like to refer to us as) a million times over, the concept of this game is that it's not about hours played, but how you play. Meaning that there shouldn't be items or skills that make you "better" than others, and if there are, they should be fairly easy to get and not be exclusive only to those willing to go through the grind for them.
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) where everything is finished within 2 weeks does not appeal to the masses..of course a.net are not going to please everybody, there will always be some who are not happy with the game mechanics.I, personally think they have found a balance..as really, every mmorpg does require a small amount of grind.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shinsei
I think you fail to see that GW was not supposed to be your common MMORPG where accomplishments gave you statistical advantages over your competition, but it seems as if that's what it turned in to. A.net was on the right track with asthetic rewards instead of rewarding us with skills/runes for hard accomplishments. It's a shame they haven't yet gone full out with it.
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But consider this..if they just handed the runes and skills to you (Which they may have done this update anyway, decreasing the rarity of rune drops.
) the game would be over too quickly, and everyone would be forced to pvp..giving a pvp character everything from the beginning would also be a mistake, as then what would happen to the roleplay characters?There will always be one side of the game complaining about something, but removing this skill system would decrease the lifespan of the game, or make rpers complain that their characters are now pointless as you do not have to earn anything to pvp.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shinsei
With respect to the thread's topic, I'll choose to end the discussion (on my part atleast), and not reply to more on this matter.
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)
Xellos
Dumbest Arguement Ever.
Mimu, you have just killed off everything this game stands for with this statement. Please do not argue about this point. BWE buying elite skills was never complained about by anyone. This is just some crappy way of justifying the elite system being elite in the first place. Which as BlackAce will probably rush in and scream out loud, the elite system sucks, it's just a cop out to balancing the skills. The advantage should never be earned by time or luck, but rather skill. That is the core design of this game. Go against it, and your debate has as much meat as a veggie burger.
Ha, try asking the whole forum who has a Superior Expertise Rune unlocked.
200 hours of farming from some people here and nada.
Oh, I don't know, they would roleplay for once? Maybe try out PVE builds? Stuff like Superior Air Rune isn't exactly going to be useful in PVE anyways, but it sure as hell is needed for almost any competitive aeromancer. You should stop being so use to PVE = Rewards, and should think PVE = Fun. If PVE is attractive only because of rewards, then Anet has failed its mission in the first place. Some people actually like to explore, some people actually like to do miscellaneous quests, but not everyone. Most people just want the best damn stuff they can get. As a company that was set out to make a game that breaks this trend, it is their duty to break this mentality, not support it.
Quote:
| I would have to say..surely you do not have to get every elite skill and rune? If people who do have them all hold an advantage over those who don't, it's only because they spent the time earning them.. |
Quote:
| I understand this, however an online rpg (I'm reluctant to call it an mmorpg, as there are already arguments on that point. ) where everything is finished within 2 weeks does not appeal to the masses..of course a.net are not going to please everybody, there will always be some who are not happy with the game mechanics. |
200 hours of farming from some people here and nada.
Quote:
| But consider this..if they just handed the runes and skills to you (Which they may have done this update anyway, decreasing the rarity of rune drops. ) the game would be over too quickly, and everyone would be forced to pvp..giving a pvp character everything from the beginning would also be a mistake, as then what would happen to the roleplay characters? |
thaumaturge
The addition of a marker placed on the big map (m) to indicate where the quest is would have to be the greatest addition to any single game ever. No that is not an exaggeration 
Stur
Quote:
|
Update – Wednesday May 11 * Major changes to PvP Arenas! Previously, each Arena had a separate outpost. When you joined an Arena, you continued playing on that map repeatedly until you lost. Now, the various high-level Arena maps all share a common outpost. When you enter the high-level Arena, you’ll play on many different maps with many different victory conditions, and you’ll need to master all the maps to keep on winning. * After each consecutive PvP victory, the game now displays the number of consecutive wins. * A new screen at the end of PvP character creation allows you to choose the starting location of your PvP character. * We retired the old “Dazed," “Shock Sniper," “Divine Healer.” and “Trapper” PvP-only character templates, and rotated in some new templates, including three new templates created by guilds that won our April ladder contest. Additionally, we tweaked the skills of many other PvP character templates. These changes only affect the creation of new characters; existing characters created with an old template may continue to use that old template. * You can now store gold in your account storage vault! The vault can store up to 1000 platinum pieces, and individual characters can now hold a maximum of 100 platinum pieces. * PvP-only characters can now access the account storage vault for free. * Entering “The Underworld” now costs 1 platinum piece, the same as entering “The Fissure of Woe." Rewards in both maps have been significantly improved. * New quests! In Post-Searing Ascalon: “The Weaver of Nebo” and “Iron Horse War Machine." In “The Fissure of Woe:” “Tower of Courage," “The Wailing Lord," “A Gift of Griffons," “Army of Darkness," “The Eternal Forgemaster," “Defend the Temple of War," and “Restore the Temple of War." * Primary quests in Pre-Searing Ascalon now chain together, making it more straightforward for new players to complete Pre-Searing Ascalon and gain entrance to the Academy. * Increased drop rates for Uncommon and Rare items in Explorable Areas. * Implemented various minor fixes and clarifications to existing quests. * Implemented various tweaks to monster difficulty and loot balance. * Added new boss monster encounters in the “Ring of Fire” area. * Added new bonuses on certain collector and quest items. * Instituted skill changes: “Watch Yourself!” correctly affects characters who were already affected by another instance of the skill. “Firestorm” now continues to cast even if the target enemy dies during spellcasting. We’ll revise other area-effect spells to work this way in future updates. * The party window and account storage windows now correctly remember their position and size. * There are many new hints displayed in Pre-Searing Ascalon, and a new option to disable the display of hints. * When you gain a level, a button now appears prompting you to spend your newly acquired attribute points. * Quest destination points now appear on both the Map Area and Map Travel windows. * Most NPC text is now logged to the chat window, as well as being displayed in game. * Implemented various minor fixes to UI. * Fixed crafters recognizing high-level crafting items. * Fixed problems which caused excessive scarcity of Fur Squares, Linen, and Silk. * Implemented fixes for incorrect behavior when a player or party disconnects before the beginning of a competitive game. * Implemented fixes for miscellaneous rare crash bugs. * Added the ability to change postal mailing address on account. * Improved hardware compatibility. |
chalt2
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xellos
You should stop being so use to PVE = Rewards, and should think PVE = Fun. If PVE is attractive only because of rewards, then Anet has failed its mission in the first place. Some people actually like to explore, some people actually like to do miscellaneous quests, but not everyone. Most people just want the best damn stuff they can get. As a company that was set out to make a game that breaks this trend, it is their duty to break this mentality, not support it.
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The game is what it is, either you like the game for the most part and deal with the parts you don't or just don't play it. GW IS a great game, one of the BEST ever released, is it perfect, nope, are there some things I don't PERSONALLY like about the game, you bet but compared to the others I've played like WoW and EQ2, hands down a better game Guild Wars is.
The bottom line is that people are different and they want, look for and expect different things in different ways and if you think that it's AN's responsability to change that, wow do you have big surprise comming.
Xellos
Quote:
| The expectation that AN or ANY company for that matter can create the "perfect" game is ludecrous, trying to please EVERYONE is an exercise in futility. |
Quote:
| The game is what it is, either you like the game for the most part and deal with the parts you don't or just don't play it. |
Quote:
| GW IS a great game, one of the BEST ever released, is it perfect, nope, are there some things I don't PERSONALLY like about the game, you bet but compared to the others I've played like WoW and EQ2, hands down a better game Guild Wars is. |
Quote:
| The bottom line is that people are different and they want, look for and expect different things in different ways and if you think that it's AN's responsability to change that, wow do you have big surprise comming. |
The arguement is over.
Stur
Somebody needs a hug
Xellos
No it's just ridiculous how people can actually argue against you when you are supporting the core concepts of the game. That's like saying someone told you tetris was fine if all of a sudden a circle block fell down.
chalt2
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xellos
So your bias is blinding your judgement, and covers your eyes from viewing in other people's views correctly. You think telling people that you love guild wars is going to make your arguement stronger?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xellos
but if any company decides to give better service and give customers fulfilled promises, even Anet won't survive. If you think this mentality of yours is real, then your probably the kind of guy who thinks voting is pointless, or that companies like Blizzard didn't take a hit from being plain stupid.
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What "promises" has Arena Net not fulfilled? Did they miss the relaes date? Is Guild Wars NOT different from most if not all the other games of its kind?
Are not able to jump into PvP right out of the box?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xellos
The arguement is over.
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Hysteria
I for one am glad uncommon to rare drops will be more randomized and now I can stop farming those Drakes. Only problem is if they are increased in number they won't be so rare now will they which isn't necesarilly a bad thing now that I think about it. Perhap's it will balance out the economy a bit better. Oh one more thing, the only thing that's hard for me to get used to id the new music. Don't get me wrong I enjoy it, it's just a bit to high pitched for me while playing the game and yes I know there is a music slider
Xellos
Quote:
| First if your going to put words in my mouth please make them correct, I LOVE my wife and my kids, I ENJOY Guild Wars as I assume you do as well or you wouldn't be here. |
Quote:
| Voting is only pointless if you don't do it, companies take "hits" all the time for kinds of reasons and yes stupidity is one of them. |
Quote:
| What "promises" has Arena Net not fulfilled? Did they miss the relaes date? Is Guild Wars NOT different from most if not all the other games of its kind? |
Quote:
| Are not able to jump into PvP right out of the box? |
Quote:
| Why? Are you an admin of the site? |
Your not specific, your using phrases that try to make me sound too picky, and therefore you don't even have anything to argue on. We could always take a poll, but I'm trying to be nice, and not cause a slaughter based on common sense.
Stur
Dude I gotta call Bull@$#@, the grind in this game is fun and if the SMALL amount of work they make you do is to much you shoulda never left TribesII, I'm not trying to be mean here, but come on. I played lineageII for over a year and THAT is a grind LOL
Guild Wars is the best game I've played in years, my only worry is that I’m chewing though the "grind" so fast I'm afraid of running out of PvE content before the first expansion and only having PvP left to do.
Guild Wars is the best game I've played in years, my only worry is that I’m chewing though the "grind" so fast I'm afraid of running out of PvE content before the first expansion and only having PvP left to do.
chalt2
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Originally Posted by Xellos
That is what this topic is about. It has too much grind in the game. It has not yet fulfilled this specific promise..
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xellos
ArenaNet did advertise being able to do that. They also advertised skill being more important then items and time spent on all levels. Not just hardcore levels. That means, casual players should never be differentiated by time spent as much as their skill. Currently, this is not how it works.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xellos
Your not specific, your using phrases that try to make me sound too picky, and therefore you don't even have anything to argue on. We could always take a poll, but I'm trying to be nice, and not cause a slaughter based on common sense.
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Dazzler
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaumaturge
The addition of a marker placed on the big map (m) to indicate where the quest is would have to be the greatest addition to any single game ever. No that is not an exaggeration
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chalt2
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blackace
Chalt if you have no idea what you are talking about, stop posting about it you're just cluttering the thread
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Or is it that if my ideas aren't the same then "I have no idea what I am tlaking about"
Now if I was in here spouting that the only real thing that matters in the game is how many Fur squares you have and how much money you can get for them, then I could see your point.
Odd Sock
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chalt2
What "promises" has Arena Net not fulfilled? Did they miss the relaes date? Is Guild Wars NOT different from most if not all the other games of its kind?
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How will you be competitive if you don't have Zealous upgrades on your PvP warriors ? How will you be competitive if you dont have Superior Expertise or Superior Air Runes ? Can you even consider yourself worthy without Superior Vigor ? and dont get me started on elite skills. Up till now I racked 120 hours and the only reasons why I can be close to where I want to be for PvP is because I abused the Desert wreckage exploit which I grinded for about 20 hours. Even with that I dont even have all the component unlocked for all classes. ANet said GW wasnt about grind yet to be worth a little more than an onion you need to spend hours farming for your runes. Watching grass grow or watching baseball is funner than farming. So you want a promise they didn't fulfill ? read your box. The only real one they have accomplished is 'free online play' and 'release is for April 27th' and in all honesty they should have done some balancing skills and work on removing the Elite mecanism instead of an early release.
Shinsei
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chalt2
Have I made any erroneous statements?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by chalt2
Or wait, I got it, you could just NOT play the game at all if it is so bad that you aren't enjoying your time playing it.
Or maybe spend some more time IN-Game and less time in here complaining about how bad it is, for YOU. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chalt2
What "promises" has Arena Net not fulfilled? Did they miss the relaes date? Is Guild Wars NOT different from most if not all the other games of its kind?
Are not able to jump into PvP right out of the box? |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chalt2
The game has been out for two weeks and YOU have not been able to obtain whatever "golden nuget" you are looking for so therefor there is to much grind, I'm sorry to hear that.
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Care to keep posting and give me more examples?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shinsei
With respect to the thread's topic, I'll choose to end the discussion (on my part atleast), and not reply to more on this matter.
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Odd Sock
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shinsei
It's funny how the other "group" of players who weren't "turned on" has so much hatred towards PvP'ers who have basically lost their game.
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Bring back the charm vendors, what was wring with them ? Not even rings, just charms and necklaces so that the skills remain temporary. Or if you insist on pleasing the drones who play PvE and for some reason find it fun and challenging make them their own server where every 15000th monster killed will drop 2 iron ingots and let us PvPers actually challenge each other on our PvP servers with actual real builds. Right now tombs is resumed to 2 skills: Mending and Bone Minions, why are nubs using them ? Because they cant find anything better, quite sad that ANet failed in both helping new players know whats going on and satisfying the more experienced ones with actual real builds