Just wanted to say this. I'm starting to get higher in levels and decided to tie up some loose ends on some quests in Old Ascalon, Pockmark Flats, etc. While traveling I noticed even though I'm in my teens I get level 0, 1, & 4 mobs agroing me. What's going on with that? Why would anything a dozen levels below agro me while I'm running. It's really nothing more than an annoyance most of the times having to kill something then getting no exp for it.
I'd like to recommend not making mobs auto agro you after a certain level difference unless there is some type of chance they can win, or they are provoked by us attacking them.
If Level > X Do Not Agro
Arrow Whisper
Holoman
I totally agree. I'm only level 10 and I already feel the pain. It's really tedious having to kill mobs that don't give you exp.
Morgan19
Also agreed. If the XP reward is taken away, then you shouldn't be force to fight them.
m19
m19
Elurian
one would think that if there was no xp reward you wouldn't be there unless you are trying to gain skills(which can be bought from a trainer). Mobs not attacking because you are "too high" of a level just doesn't make sense to me... regrouping with a bunch more mobs and ganging you would be an idea though....
Mimu
But it makes sense..
If you wander into a group of Charr they would attempt to gang up on you in order to remove you from their territory.
Undead creatures are not renowned for their intelligence.. (Except liches) so they would most likely charge and attack on sight without considering the consequences of their actions.
Maybe human enemies could have slightly better AI, and if you are double their level or they are outnumbered they could attempt to retreat..
But beyond that, from an rp perspective it makes sense.
Although..maybe when you enter an instanced area it could scale the spawns and enemies to meet the average level of your party + the challenge rating of the area.
If you wander into a group of Charr they would attempt to gang up on you in order to remove you from their territory.
Undead creatures are not renowned for their intelligence.. (Except liches) so they would most likely charge and attack on sight without considering the consequences of their actions.
Maybe human enemies could have slightly better AI, and if you are double their level or they are outnumbered they could attempt to retreat..
But beyond that, from an rp perspective it makes sense.
Although..maybe when you enter an instanced area it could scale the spawns and enemies to meet the average level of your party + the challenge rating of the area.
Slade xTekno
However, the one flaw with the argument is that you assume that they can see the "Wa/Mo 20" above your head. Level has no outward appearance in this and other games, so have creatures not aggro you makes no sense.
Mimu
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Slade xTekno
However, the one flaw with the argument is that you assume that they can see the "Wa/Mo 20" above your head. Level has no outward appearance in this and other games, so have creatures not aggro you makes no sense.
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So although they would not be able to see the level, the new strength would most likely reflect onto your appearance...
I simply refuse to believe that a level 20 w/mo would look exactly the same as that new warrior who just stepped into Ascalon with a blade akin to a wooden sword and a few pieces of leather roughly tied together to create a suit of armour.
Plus, if you're carrying a bigass sword around they would be able to see that.
Morgan19
Guys... If you were level 1, would you willingly run towards a huge dragon that is obviously stronger than you? Probably not, simply because you know you wouldn't have a chance! That's the point-- that a low-level monster would recognize you're "bigger and nastier" than it is and, thus, would want to stay away rather than lose its life. Even a monster with little intelligence would be able to figure that out. It makes perfect sense, even from a RP perspective.
How is this concept hard to grasp?
m19
How is this concept hard to grasp?
m19
Mimu
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Morgan19
that a low-level monster would recognize you're "bigger and nastier" than it is and, thus, would want to stay away rather than lose its life. Even a monster with little intelligence would be able to figure that out. It makes perfect sense, even from a RP perspective.
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And unless I am mistaken, charr are very territorial creatures so they would most likely charge anyway if there were enough of them.
Morgan19
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mimu
A zombie wouldn't.
And unless I am mistaken, charr are very territorial creatures so they would most likely charge anyway if there were enough of them. |
The point still stands, regardless of exceptions.
m19
Lasher Dragon
I think a stroke of brilliance would be something like this...
Typical group of 6 or so intelligent enemies. Let's say they are dwarves up in the mountains. OK, they attack you as usual. If they lose half their forces within X amount of time, the rest turn tail and flee for their lives, screaming and crying. That would make it worth being attacked by the low-level mobs.
Add to that code something where within that instance, if those dwarves run by other dwarves, those dwarves now know you are not to be trifled with and they will flee on sight - unless they have huge numbers - say 5 dwarves per person in your group. That would be awesome.
Typical group of 6 or so intelligent enemies. Let's say they are dwarves up in the mountains. OK, they attack you as usual. If they lose half their forces within X amount of time, the rest turn tail and flee for their lives, screaming and crying. That would make it worth being attacked by the low-level mobs.
Add to that code something where within that instance, if those dwarves run by other dwarves, those dwarves now know you are not to be trifled with and they will flee on sight - unless they have huge numbers - say 5 dwarves per person in your group. That would be awesome.
Ramus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon
I think a stroke of brilliance would be something like this...
Typical group of 6 or so intelligent enemies. Let's say they are dwarves up in the mountains. OK, they attack you as usual. If they lose half their forces within X amount of time, the rest turn tail and flee for their lives, screaming and crying. That would make it worth being attacked by the low-level mobs. Add to that code something where within that instance, if those dwarves run by other dwarves, those dwarves now know you are not to be trifled with and they will flee on sight - unless they have huge numbers - say 5 dwarves per person in your group. That would be awesome. |
Valarian of Ascalon
I disagree. Scorpions are not smart and thus should attack all on site, nor are undead smart or would they care if they were killed again since they are already dead. I like the fact that no matter what level you are you have to stay on your toes whenever travelling anywhere by yourself. To me this the best thing about Guild Wars. In other games that have a level grind such as COH, once you out level a zone baddies stop taking in interest in you and that zone now becomes one giant pretty looking snooze fest, even if you still have quests to complete in it. If anything I think weaker monsters should sound a horn and call in the reinforcements whenever a major threat such as a hero or party happens by, the Charr are one such group that should really do this. Now that would be cool. Just my two cents. Valarian.
Eclair
Even if animals and zombies are not intelligent, they still have instinct (okay not sure about zombies). Same with humans, there's the innate instinct of fleeing when in fear.
High level characters should be able to instill fear to monsters probably more than 5-7 levels lower. Haven't you seen those asian movies where an experienced swordsmaster can just emit his killing aura and everybody gets scared and can't move, or attempt to run away? Remember in Hannibal, when Dr. Lecter walks into the pen of hogs to pick up Clarice, all the hogs back away and try to avoid him?
High level players should be able to emit this aura that just scares off weaker monsters or humans, and it would make sense =)
High level characters should be able to instill fear to monsters probably more than 5-7 levels lower. Haven't you seen those asian movies where an experienced swordsmaster can just emit his killing aura and everybody gets scared and can't move, or attempt to run away? Remember in Hannibal, when Dr. Lecter walks into the pen of hogs to pick up Clarice, all the hogs back away and try to avoid him?
High level players should be able to emit this aura that just scares off weaker monsters or humans, and it would make sense =)
kalaris
No, from an RP standpoint this Idea this really doesn't make any sense at all...
The argument that a Charr would see a big strong human and run away from it? Feh as if... No Charr would do that.. .it'd pick up its weapon and defend its territory...
While it is slightly annoying that those level 3 Shatter Gargolyes keep slowing me down, I find it highly realistic, that they simply do not care..
In D2 (which this game is largely akin to) did the lecel 1 quill beasts run from your level 100 characters? nupe they kept trying to mess with you
The Dragon Analogy That Morgan used was a bad one... since there is a large size diffrence.
Here's a Slightly better one... would a Hungry wolf attack an elderly lady? You betcha
Would that Same Wolf Attack a small Guy dressed in a Kung Fu gi? Your damn right he would. and he'd pay for it.
The fact is that there would be no way realistically to know how dangerous someone really is and be right... you could make a guess based on their appearence... but I don't think it would help that much.
Besides since travel is so easy in this game why are we even worried about =P
The argument that a Charr would see a big strong human and run away from it? Feh as if... No Charr would do that.. .it'd pick up its weapon and defend its territory...
While it is slightly annoying that those level 3 Shatter Gargolyes keep slowing me down, I find it highly realistic, that they simply do not care..
In D2 (which this game is largely akin to) did the lecel 1 quill beasts run from your level 100 characters? nupe they kept trying to mess with you
The Dragon Analogy That Morgan used was a bad one... since there is a large size diffrence.
Here's a Slightly better one... would a Hungry wolf attack an elderly lady? You betcha
Would that Same Wolf Attack a small Guy dressed in a Kung Fu gi? Your damn right he would. and he'd pay for it.
The fact is that there would be no way realistically to know how dangerous someone really is and be right... you could make a guess based on their appearence... but I don't think it would help that much.
Besides since travel is so easy in this game why are we even worried about =P
Ramus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kalaris
No, from an RP standpoint this Idea this really doesn't make any sense at all...
The argument that a Charr would see a big strong human and run away from it? Feh as if... No Charr would do that.. .it'd pick up its weapon and defend its territory... While it is slightly annoying that those level 3 Shatter Gargolyes keep slowing me down, I find it highly realistic, that they simply do not care.. In D2 (which this game is largely akin to) did the lecel 1 quill beasts run from your level 100 characters? nupe they kept trying to mess with you The Dragon Analogy That Morgan used was a bad one... since there is a large size diffrence. Here's a Slightly better one... would a Hungry wolf attack an elderly lady? You betcha Would that Same Wolf Attack a small Guy dressed in a Kung Fu gi? Your damn right he would. and he'd pay for it. The fact is that there would be no way realistically to know how dangerous someone really is and be right... you could make a guess based on their appearence... but I don't think it would help that much. Besides since travel is so easy in this game why are we even worried about =P |
Sir_Sid
I totally agree.
catharsis
In Diablo, the Level 1 Quill Beasts died in 1-2 shots from a Lev 1 Barbarian.. I challenge you to find an enemy in Guild Wars that frail.
I like the idea of differing aggro settings.. some enemies should CHAAARRGE! and some should skulk away into the shadows.
I like the idea of differing aggro settings.. some enemies should CHAAARRGE! and some should skulk away into the shadows.
Gevatter Tod
In Sacred you've the idea of repycifiing an area. Maybe this idea should be transfered to GW. After attending certain relevant quest and exploring a certain percentage of the area, this area becomes repacified just for you (if there's a member in the party, who doesn't fulfill the conditions, the area isn't repacified) and there aren't monsters anymore.
Another idea: a new skill "daunt", which cannot be increased directly, but which increases with your level (and maybe with our equipment). While wandering through a "low level area" you have to daunt enemies whenever you doesn't want to fight them and success of you attempt depends on your daunt-skill.
Yet another idea, also used in Sacred: rare Items which kills "low-level-chars" at eye-contact. Well, quite ridiculous, i know.
I'm sorry for revitalizing the thread, but thats something I'm annoyed about again and again. Just a few moments ago I've almost thrown my (expensive aluminium) keyboard against the wall because a short walk to the next outpost became an odyssey (and becauso of Alesia, who is always running directly into the enemy-mob, where she dies in one second *TILT*)
And hey, it's GW, you doesnt't even have real weathereffects and the NPCs are awake around the clock, and you are discussing, how a creature should react on the char when he's much stronger then the creature. Lasher Dragons idea is also very good end even quite realistic. A.net has to something, I'm not the only one, who's amloust as far as never making a step into the wilderness again when it's not necessary.
Another idea: a new skill "daunt", which cannot be increased directly, but which increases with your level (and maybe with our equipment). While wandering through a "low level area" you have to daunt enemies whenever you doesn't want to fight them and success of you attempt depends on your daunt-skill.
Yet another idea, also used in Sacred: rare Items which kills "low-level-chars" at eye-contact. Well, quite ridiculous, i know.
I'm sorry for revitalizing the thread, but thats something I'm annoyed about again and again. Just a few moments ago I've almost thrown my (expensive aluminium) keyboard against the wall because a short walk to the next outpost became an odyssey (and becauso of Alesia, who is always running directly into the enemy-mob, where she dies in one second *TILT*)
And hey, it's GW, you doesnt't even have real weathereffects and the NPCs are awake around the clock, and you are discussing, how a creature should react on the char when he's much stronger then the creature. Lasher Dragons idea is also very good end even quite realistic. A.net has to something, I'm not the only one, who's amloust as far as never making a step into the wilderness again when it's not necessary.
Dagbiker
i dont think pasificing the area would work, because the game is based on fighting, and if you take out the fighting then you dont have a game, but i do like the skill segestion, or the item segestion, like an "axe of fear" or "wand of dissaray"
Lord Malikai
The most embarrassing thing is being level 20, fully eq'd with a big bad sword and a monk friend, running through a zone and getting stomped by 20 level 10 mobs. True story, ran to Temple of Ages today through the black tower zone, thinking.. *yawn* but before we realized it we had agro'd about 10 mobs and were taking serious damage. Another minute and we were dead and the undead were laughin it up.
I like going back to help my guildmates to those Piken Square missions, solely because I like to conjure up some flames on my dragon sword and use hundred blades and watch a screen full of damage fly by and a mob of Charr drop dead
Revenge baby.. yea.
And I think Charr wouldn't run away from any human, espcially since they've got the upper hand, destroyed most of Ascalon and are bigger than us :P Not to mention, they are probably thinking the same thing as we are... "Hey, that guys got a Fiery Dragon Sword, let's kill him for phat lootz!"
I like going back to help my guildmates to those Piken Square missions, solely because I like to conjure up some flames on my dragon sword and use hundred blades and watch a screen full of damage fly by and a mob of Charr drop dead
Revenge baby.. yea. And I think Charr wouldn't run away from any human, espcially since they've got the upper hand, destroyed most of Ascalon and are bigger than us :P Not to mention, they are probably thinking the same thing as we are... "Hey, that guys got a Fiery Dragon Sword, let's kill him for phat lootz!"
Horogan Sivoris
hmm, here's a suggestion. Maybe in SOME areas, especially areas where lower levels exists, say, 0-5 or so, you could pacify an area. Much akin to that in the game Sacred.
If you pacify an area, there will be less monster spawn. Say, to pacify it, you have to wipe out all enemies in an area.
Edit: Sorry, this is what you get for skim-reading, Some one already posted this idea up top somewhere.
If you pacify an area, there will be less monster spawn. Say, to pacify it, you have to wipe out all enemies in an area.
Edit: Sorry, this is what you get for skim-reading, Some one already posted this idea up top somewhere.
Xellos
"Rawr, a human has trespassed our land! To arms Charr brethen"
"Sir, he has a level 20 thing over his head"
"Ok guys, let's just give the celebrity some room here..YOU FETCH HIM COOKIES AND MILK!"
I somehow doubt this kind of thing works.
"Sir, he has a level 20 thing over his head"
"Ok guys, let's just give the celebrity some room here..YOU FETCH HIM COOKIES AND MILK!"
I somehow doubt this kind of thing works.
Bamelin
I don't care about the RP logic behind it.
It's not fun to have to kill mob after mob that doesn't give xp.
That is grind.
It's not fun to have to kill mob after mob that doesn't give xp.
That is grind.
Yuji Storm
I don't agree with the idea.. because pretty much all the quests give anywhere between 500~2000 exp (and items, and sometimes even skills), which at any level is pretty decent. And most of those old ascalon quests are just going from one NPC to another. If the monsters didn't agro, that would be incredibly too easy for fast exp.
If you're a pretty high level, then the mobs should be that much easier for you to slaughter or completey ignore.
If you're a pretty high level, then the mobs should be that much easier for you to slaughter or completey ignore.
Gevatter Tod
While questing the mobs have to be agro of course, even when they doesn't have a chance against the char or the party. Otherwise you'd play the coops till lvl 20 and then you'd simply go back run through the quests.
And even on high-level it takes time to defeat a group of gargoyles. After eleminiting the twentieth mob it's still getting annoying although you won't have problems with the mobs.
And even on high-level it takes time to defeat a group of gargoyles. After eleminiting the twentieth mob it's still getting annoying although you won't have problems with the mobs.
BahamutKaiser
Not everything agros you, some are even passive creatures (pet material), but just like real animals, some are territorial or visious and they will attack you if yor approach them anyways, the fact that your armor glints a different way or your eyes glow darker, doesn't mean a whole lot to an animal, or zombie and such in this case. Furthermore, undead creatures have nothing to fear from your blade as well, they are already dead.
Making lower lvl monster not agro isn't realistic and if they are so low then you can just walk right through them, I do all the time, they stop chasing after putting 2 or 3 dozen "-1s" over your head. But they could design items like shields or ward that repel enemies of certain natures, like a holy auhk that repels the dead or a flaming sword scaring away ice elementals. Either way, it matters little, if your that much higher you probably arn't taking damage at all, and you can kill 4 of them in one swing.......
Making lower lvl monster not agro isn't realistic and if they are so low then you can just walk right through them, I do all the time, they stop chasing after putting 2 or 3 dozen "-1s" over your head. But they could design items like shields or ward that repel enemies of certain natures, like a holy auhk that repels the dead or a flaming sword scaring away ice elementals. Either way, it matters little, if your that much higher you probably arn't taking damage at all, and you can kill 4 of them in one swing.......
Gevatter Tod
But it's realistic, that the same mob waits for you, always at the same location, again and again? It would be realistic, when there wouldn't be a mob anymore after you've killed them (equal to repacified areas in Sacred).
There has to be comprimise between realism and comfort - I'm not that patient, that I would kill millions of annoying mobs again and again just for having a look on Ranik from a nearby hill. A special skill for chasing away low-level-mobs would be fine there.
There has to be comprimise between realism and comfort - I'm not that patient, that I would kill millions of annoying mobs again and again just for having a look on Ranik from a nearby hill. A special skill for chasing away low-level-mobs would be fine there.
Yuji Storm
Why're we arguing about realistic~ness? .. o_O Never even bring that up when you're talking about a videogame. Ever. .. It doesn't even matter.
Maker
I have to agree with the gang up theory, cause it works. At lev 18 I went back in visited the Charr. They were extremely easy, and I even noticed the drop rate seemed to be increased as I was slaughtering them. However, when I got into the tar at one point I got mobbed by about 20 lev 5 or so guys..and I just couldnt out heal the damage I was taking. So, its a pain, but if enough of em mob you, they can win...but on the bright side you get a ton of drops (charr hides=fur=good)
nechronius
If I have one complaint about the game it's probably this.
It still takes several hits to kill low-mid level monsters that I get no XP from when all I want to do is return an item and just end a quest. This is especially aggravating when I've lost my way and I'm tired of dealing with creatures that keep wanting to attack no matter how long I run from them.
Creatures will ALWAYS eventually catch you if you run away from them. It's an inevitability if you are not travelling a perfectly straight line. Cast a spell? Fine, they'll just catch you quicker. Round a corner to avoid them? They'll round the corner ideally as the AI is at all Times drawing the straightest line from the creature(s) to you.
Naturally the pack keeps growing larger and larger and just one wrong turn will result in a really bad adventure session when all I want to do is end a cheap quest and move on.
With exceptions (like the warlike Charr) creatures worth 0XP to you should not engage you unless you engage them first. That gives grinders an opportunity to attack when they want but leaves others to peacibly be on their way if they don't want trouble.
It still takes several hits to kill low-mid level monsters that I get no XP from when all I want to do is return an item and just end a quest. This is especially aggravating when I've lost my way and I'm tired of dealing with creatures that keep wanting to attack no matter how long I run from them.
Creatures will ALWAYS eventually catch you if you run away from them. It's an inevitability if you are not travelling a perfectly straight line. Cast a spell? Fine, they'll just catch you quicker. Round a corner to avoid them? They'll round the corner ideally as the AI is at all Times drawing the straightest line from the creature(s) to you.
Naturally the pack keeps growing larger and larger and just one wrong turn will result in a really bad adventure session when all I want to do is end a cheap quest and move on.
With exceptions (like the warlike Charr) creatures worth 0XP to you should not engage you unless you engage them first. That gives grinders an opportunity to attack when they want but leaves others to peacibly be on their way if they don't want trouble.
Ku Zo
I understand that a lot of people are trying to suggest different methods in the name of staying true to the RP paradigm, but if they put things in the game like instantly porting from town to town, there is nothing wrong with simply not making animals aggro if they are below the point where you would get xp.
What is the net effect of having 0xp mobs attack you? You are delayed from finishing your mission. They don't pose a threat, and you should be able to dispatch them easily, but you shouldn't HAVE to in order to get by.
I know that I am not alone when I have tried to just run by only to be stuck behind a tree or take a wrong turn and die at the hands of 10 lvl 1's when I am level 10.
What is the net effect of having 0xp mobs attack you? You are delayed from finishing your mission. They don't pose a threat, and you should be able to dispatch them easily, but you shouldn't HAVE to in order to get by.
I know that I am not alone when I have tried to just run by only to be stuck behind a tree or take a wrong turn and die at the hands of 10 lvl 1's when I am level 10.
RoxorMcownage
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Morgan19
Guys... If you were level 1, would you willingly run towards a huge dragon that is obviously stronger than you? Probably not, simply because you know you wouldn't have a chance! That's the point-- that a low-level monster would recognize you're "bigger and nastier" than it is and, thus, would want to stay away rather than lose its life. Even a monster with little intelligence would be able to figure that out. It makes perfect sense, even from a RP perspective.
How is this concept hard to grasp? m19 |
A dog will still try to bite a guy with a shotgun.
Romac
yeah i'll sign this 1 thousand times
if the mob doesn't give me xp why do i have to waste my play time hacking through them to get somehwere.
if the mob doesn't give me xp why do i have to waste my play time hacking through them to get somehwere.
Yuji Storm
You've already been given the gift of instantanous travel between towns. Don't complain about a few monsters in your path >>
SOT
If you are past level 10-11 and are being aggroed by devouers, there really is only one reason that is plausible to me personally: You, like me, are farming for gold and drops.
Seriously...
I farm for gold and drops because after wiping out ALL LIFEFORMS on the map between warping, I have run out of opportunities to acquire mats and whatnot. So I mapwarp to piken again, for example, then exit town.
There really is no other reason you can give me for even being NEAR the lower level mobs
Seriously...
I farm for gold and drops because after wiping out ALL LIFEFORMS on the map between warping, I have run out of opportunities to acquire mats and whatnot. So I mapwarp to piken again, for example, then exit town.
There really is no other reason you can give me for even being NEAR the lower level mobs
Keure
Quote:
| If you are past level 10-11 and are being aggroed by devouers, there really is only one reason that is plausible to me personally: You, like me, are farming for gold and drops. |
I want to clear out quest items from my inventory and get some XP for it.
Thraxus
Why not have it so the mobs have boss monsters in them that level up as you do? Not quite as fast maybe, but fast enough so you get experience from them.
Either that or the idea of a Terrifying Gaze! type skill
Either that or the idea of a Terrifying Gaze! type skill
Deten
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arrow Whisper
Just wanted to say this. I'm starting to get higher in levels and decided to tie up some loose ends on some quests in Old Ascalon, Pockmark Flats, etc. While traveling I noticed even though I'm in my teens I get level 0, 1, & 4 mobs agroing me. What's going on with that? Why would anything a dozen levels below agro me while I'm running. It's really nothing more than an annoyance most of the times having to kill something then getting no exp for it.
I'd like to recommend not making mobs auto agro you after a certain level difference unless there is some type of chance they can win, or they are provoked by us attacking them. |
Jaide
It's true that people would just wait to do quests until they're a high enough level that the enemies wouldn't aggro them, so I think a possible solution would be a set amount of experience that you'd get for fighting the low level mobs. It wouldn't have to be any real amount of experience (it could be 1 for all I care), but you'd be getting something out of having to spend time fighting them.