Is Vengeance wrong?

I was in an IDS farming group last night, out on Mineral Springs. I noticed that more than once the Avicara refused to aggro to the tank, and swarmed the monks. Despite the fact that both monks and both necros were well outside the aggro-bubble. The monks went down, then the warrior (W/R) went down.

The SS necro was smart and used my minions as meat-shields and was able to start spamming SS on all of the enemy. Everyone dead except the two necros, why am I not surprised?

I raised minions from both monks and then resurected them both with Vengeance. One of the monks protested loudly about it. "Don't use Vengeance, it's a bad spell."

After a few tense seconds of battle, the tide turned as the Avicara fell under the MM+SS battle plan. One monk Rebirthed the Warrior, and then Vengeance expired....both monks died again.

There were two Avicara left, and we finished them off before raising the monks again. The Warrior used his Res Sig to raise a monk who raised the other.

A few minutes later, near the Collector by the bridge, it happened again. Exactly the same scenario: Necros alive, everone else dead. MM+SS saves the day.

When I had a second during the fight, I raised the Monks again with Vengeance (after raising minions from their bodies).

This time the Monk who complained before, went ape-shit:

MONK: "If you use Vengeance again I'm leaving!"

MONK: "This is BS!"

MONK: "Vengeance sucks"

MONK: "You're ugly"

etc

No one died again during the trip, so I never got the chance to piss them off more. I did try to ask them why they didn't like Vengeance:

MONK: "Were the monks, we can't be down that long"

Now, that makes no sense to me, because:

1) Vengeance is only a 4 sec resurect.
2) They get raised with full energy, so they are actually useful.
3) They get no DP while under Vengeance.
4) The MM get a Free corpse everytime Vengeance expires.

So, am I doing something wrong? Is Vengeance wrong? Some secret monk creedo I am unaware of that renounces Vengeance?

I don't see any problem with vengeance. He should be happy cause you rez him.

man... vengeance is fun to use.. too bad your group didn't get IDS drops.

3 full trips, 0 IDS for anyone!

when i first read the title, i was going to go into a long ethical tirade about vengeance propagating a never ending cycle of violence and how we should learn to break the cycle. but now i see that you meant the skill. and so, i will shut up.

vengeance is a quick rez used for mid combat.
there is nothing wrong with it. there is no dp penalty, and he can stay up long enough to rez someone else to res him back

i have used vengeance in some scenarios, but i dont prefer it.

i guess that monk has some vengeance paranoia.

Monks just have a "thing" where only they are supposed to use Infinate use rezes. (I could tell a funny story about how I KNEW they were gonig to suck, so I brought Rebirth on my ranger/monk instead of rez sig, and saved the day by running out of aggro and picking up the monks with rebirth=only to have them Quit because i didnt bring Rez Sig...)

And from their eyes vengeance is one of the "sucky" rezes.

They often times dont realize that everyone isn't a monk and vengeance has its uses elsewhere.

Of course for a MM - downing your own team for Minions is a good strategy when they dont stack up DP. Its almost like vengeance was made for a Nec/mo. These monks obviously havent traveled much with minion masters that care about their army.

Vengance.. You wanna have fun? Use Unyielding Aura on a monk. Oh boy now that's fun..

i'm a monk, i'd rather have someone with Vengeance and everyone else with a regular res. if a monk goes down mid battle somethings gone horribly wrong, if someone can get me back on my feet with full energy in a few seconds that 30 seconds should be enough to finish the fight.

I take rebirth, this is not a battle res but i need it for the teleport so i rely on other players ressing if people die in combat. Ideally i would take another res but 8 skill slots doesn't allow for that really.

that is y i hate farming for ids.. their r alot of noobs that think they r the best.. and they r not... the only good group was a guru group that i went with the day the post about ids caame out... other than that u did nothing wrong.. its one of the nicest fast resses out their

If it was me, I would have simply told them after the first batch of bitching, complain again and no res next time you die, then when they died again and started complaining that you weren't resing, just zoned out and let them deal on their own. Moron PUG groups suck.

oh damn what idiots. vengeance is one of the best rez's to use in a mid battle. well in my IMO it is.

Vengeance and Res Sig are probably the only two usable forms of resurrection in combat. If you can last 8 seconds of charging up the usual Ressurects, then you are probably better off finishing of the enemy, you shouldn't have trouble if you can take that many hits (the guy you revive is not in fighting form for at least several more seconds).

I especially like Vengeance because rez sig isn't affected by my points in Fast Casting.

want somthing fun? use unyeilding aura on them, and if they are being jerks and get a good drop, *click click*

Person: OMFG U st00pid n00b I HATE U

i did thhat 1nce when a guy started calling me noob for using mantra of recall.

^ Isn't Mantral of Recall an elite?

vengence rocks, i always bring it on my minion necro when farming.
as stated, you get a free corpse off your companions muhahaha
it's a fast cast, costs only 10 energy, and good for getting someone up in the middle of a furious battle when monks may be very, very busy
and no dp when they die.

oh and as a necro, i get 10 energy from SR everytime they go down as well, which i use in turn to raise another lvl 18-19 minion.

as most minion necros know, it's sometimes those extra minions that will turn the tide of the battle when things get messy and everyone has gone down.

the only drawback for vengence is it's long recharge time, and sometimes in SF it gets ripped real fast by the mes and necros. but venegence is always good for a laugh. it's just i wish more players would realize that if they're up under vengence, they should be rezing the rest of the party, not running off and getting killed again.

Vengeance rocks. The thing is people expect to be ressed fully and rather stupidly (like with restore life for example).

Rebrith is good, but the seconds of disabled skills and not full health and mana just cannot beat Vengeance. Plus, if you bring another res besides vengeance that resses fully, then you can ressurect effectively without stopping mid battle because of massive amounts healing needed after someone is ressed.

Heh. Once in CA a monk ressurected a warrior with Vengance. We killed the monk and moved on until we noticed the warrior ressurecting the monk with Restore Life.

Uh oh. Our hard work all for naught!

Then he dropped dead with half-a-second to go.

Speaking as a monk whats wrong with vengence it was said before already it gives me full energy? I can do alot of heal and res in 30 sec. If im in battle and say my messmer goes down with half our party? Just Vengence the messmer and let them go to town! Party up and messmer just then goes down re-raise messmer everything is all good now. Vengence rocks!! But still i live my un-yeilding!! Anyone for pug tank on a stick?

Ppl don't like UA & Vengeance for the simple reason they feel like they're a puppet. I personally think they are great(for PvE).

I love vengeance. That spell has saved me (or my team) from being wiped out more times than I can remember. Why people would hate the spell I'll never know, the spell simply gives what it states: a chance for vengeance . Monks can go into full-out healing frenzy with it (energy doesn't matter when you're going to die soon), warriors can berserk without worrying about damage taken, elementalists can nuke the hell out of the mob before plopping back onto the ground. Unyielding Aura could perhaps be a puppet spell simply because the player is put onto a "leash", but it's useful when you need people up for longer than 30 seconds, like when the main tank dies and you need him/her up for another two minutes.

Yeah, Vengeance is one of my favourites to take with me in PvE, because you never know when shit is going to hit the fan.

I have to say, I love Unyielding Aura and Heal area, among other skills that do things to screw you over. I believe there's one that makes your people attack's do less damage, but are healed more, but if you don't heal them lol... Then you can always kill off your own guys for opponents minions etc, or whatever. I guess there's a lot you can do to help the team if you are trying too screw your team over lol.

oh, another um.. feature.. of vengence and UA is that if the puppeteer should die before the puppets, the puppets will get a life of their own.

i think chained vengence would be pretty funny hehe

Yep, this is probably the underlying reason that people don't like Vengeance. In a sense someone else is in control of their lives. It also doesn't help in that the first time people experience Vengeance they are unaware of it's limited duration. It leaves a very negative impression when you die for apparently NO reason, sometimes repeatedly!!!

Vengeance is just funny

LMAO this thread is funny... so gonna use unyielding aura now... jesus can't stop laughing at that comment ".. in control of their lives" "...a puppet".

Thanks guys gonna have myself some good times.

UA can be used by Monk secondaries too even tho it is a Divine Favor skill. It has DF requirement of 4 or greater or 50% chance of failure but.... if you have a elite skill spot that isnt all that important you can afford to lose 5 energy if it doesnt work. It's fast, it's cheap & it's fun.

Vengeance is a great skill when used properly. I was in Thunderhead Keep with my monk a while back, we were at the part where you are able to kill the giants on the wall before going in from the side. Well, the person with the King decided it was time to go in early and kill the giants via melee attacks. Well the massive swarms of Heretics (or Archaists at the time) eventauly got the best of me and I ended up dead, which in turn placed a heavy load on the other monk. Well to make long story short, someone had used vengeance on me, and I was able to rez the other monk. We had just enough time left to kill off what was remaining, and wait for vengeance to expire so I can get rezed and move on.

As a side note, yes I was a noob monk at the time, because I had gone through the rest of the game as a Mo/W fighter and used henchmen. Had I been a more experienced monk I probably would not have died. We did end up completing the mission, and to this day I have not gone back to being a fighter with that character.

Hmm.. now I have to look into Vengance again, bad enough that my bonder for ids farming carries rebirth (standard on my monk) and a res sig to get the other monk up!

And why is it that over 50% of all w/mo's don't have a way to res their fallen party members? I'd love for them to have something, vengance, even a res sig on them...... but in general.. "It's not my job" gets mentioned when I ask.

Veng rocks imho. I usually play a monk, and the necro's love that spell. For mid fight res, nothing can compare. I think the gripe about the whole situation is when the MM/Necro makes a joke, taunt, or acts sarcastic about it. In a pug, where your not really friends with anyone ... it may be wise to keep the jokes and the cracks to yourself and "maybe" ,at least, thank the monk or whomever u casted the vengeance on for your minions.

I don't mind people casting vengeance on me, but here are some of the comments I get in game:

<necro> PWAHAUHAHA!! Vengeanced yo a** for a minion!
<necro> lol!.. OWNED! thanks for the fiend!
<necro> I just casted vengeance on you again, I need a fiend! BYE!
<necro> HAHA! "****" is about to get owned! FREE Fiends!!!

All these comments, causes the rest of the team to laugh too. Which of course puts the monk or the vengeanced player as the point of the joke. Not fun imho.

Statements like that, i believe, caused one to get pretty pissed. I'll admit that I've seen those comments many times. Of course, I just ignore it ... but if it continues.. i will leave.

Using Vengence or Unyielding Aura to annoy your teammates is childish. It will usually result in them leaving and forcing you to restart.

Unyielding Aura is never used because it takes up an elite slot and there are much better monk elite than this.

Vengence is the 2nd best way to res someone mid combat. (Best way being Res Sig) It is especially useful for Elementalist & Monks. Having full energy will allow monk to start hearling right away. Just be sure to res the person normally after vengence ends.

now that's just wrong. that necro deserves to be vengenced himself.
although i've never heard such comments and if my necro were ever to say something like that, she'd deserve to be eaten by her own fiends!

Well, I personally like vengeance. As a matter of fact, our guild has actually started toying around with things and have discovered some fun things to do with it. For instance, we tried a 3 man UW: usual 55 monk + SS necro + any other profession slash Monk or a support monk. If the 55 went down, support first uses Rebirth to move monk to a safe location (he won't rez but will move). Support then uses Vengeance. The 55 then does one of many things. Either quickly uses candy cane, strips clothes, or changes weapons to alter HP. 55 dies and then is Rebirthed. This works wonderfully for helping out new 55's who have yet to get their pattern down and die quickly. It gives them the opportunity to stay in UW long enough to learn without paying over and over. (Not to mention it is just fun.)

I like Vengeance so much better than Rebirth. PUGS keep rebirthing me in mid battle, and as a caster, its instant death again due to the recharge time, so more DP. Or you can run away to recharge and have people yelling at you. I don't understand why so many people are using it as their primary res.