PvE Nuker builds anyone?

erfweiss

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Cold Black Eyes

W/A

14 Feb 2007 at 10:08 - 41

This was my bar earlier in the day:

E/Me
Fire: 16
Energy Storage 13
Extra 5 points in: whatever floats your boat

1) Fireball
2) Arcane Echo
3) Liquid Flame
4) Rodgorts Invocation
5) Meteor Shower
6) Glyph of Lesser Energy
7) Elemental Attunement
8) Aura of Restoration / Signet of Capture

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

14 Feb 2007 at 11:49 - 42

Or you could not use Attunements and use Vitaes instead. Because, as we all know, max energy is so important in Guild Wars.

If you're familiar with my posting history you might know that I have a thing for Mind Blast. I like how it's a nice package of emanagement and DPS, you use it as a followup to anything that you do and it keeps your energy topped off and smooth. It was outclassed by Searing Flames for a long time, but I don't think it is anymore (outside of SF packs) so I've been tinkering with it a bit more since the last skill rebalance.

The coolest thing that came out of that rebalancing was Smoldering Embers. It hits as hard as Fireball now on the same e/c/r. More to the point, Mind Blast -> Fireball -> Mind Blast -> Smoldering Embers synchs up *perfectly* and is infinitely repeatable, making it a nice little beater combo to build a Fire Elementalist around.

To that end I've been running this bar in PvE the last few days:

Mind Blast, Fireball, Smoldering Embers, Fire Attunement, Heal Party, Resurrection Chant, Glyph of Sacrifice, ~slot

To get it out of the way, that bar is really simple, you just beat on things (~40 DPS) and crank out Heal Party or fast res as needed. Nothing fancy, you don't get to take any fancy AoE screenshots but it's great for just beating dorks down in sequence through most of PvE. Again energy is great, no downtime, can spam Heal Party on recharge if needed.

I've tried a bunch of skills in the random slot, the obligitory Glyph Sac / Meteor Shower (which I'm still underwhelmed by), Liquid Flame (which I liked when you ran Immolate but with Smoldering Embers I just end up in a rhythm and don't end up using it), even Lava Arrows (don't laugh, it's actually almost reasonable after the buff), or Flame Djinn's Haste (it's pretty nice now, between being a speed boost and a decent PBAoE, but not quite what I want). Nothing has really jumped out as the skill to run, any ideas? You can run pretty much anything there, the character can spend all of his time and energy casting what's already on his bar, so it should be really money.

Alternatively, there's an old sequence that works a bit better in light of recent buffs:

Mind Blast -> Rodgort's Invocation -> Mind Blast -> Fireball -> Mind Blast -> Incendiary Bonds -> Mind Blast -> Fireball

Which is also infinitely repeatable, synchs up perfectly, and is a bit more attractive with the buff to Incendiary Bonds (if you're into Incendiary Bonds). You have that slot, so if you really want to go nuts with the 240 AoEs, try out that sequence. Bar would then be:

Mind Blast, Fireball, Incendiary Bonds, Rodgort's Invocation, Fire Attunement, Heal Party, Resurrection Chant, Glyph of Sacrifice

Both bars run the same stats, 12+4 Fire Magic, 8 Energy Storage, 10 Healing Prayers

In any case, I'm really liking Mind Blasters right now, give 'em a shot if you haven't recently. The combination DPS and energy elite, even if it's not amazing at either, is reasonably solid, and all the time you spend casting it has a really nice synergy with the longish recharges on many fire skills.

Peace,
-CxE

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

14 Feb 2007 at 11:55 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Heal Party, Resurrection Chant, Glyph of Sacrifice, ........

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

14 Feb 2007 at 13:44 - 44

Nice build there Ensign... Might have to give it a go when I get Mind blast! <-- Ele still in Kourna

And I, too, am liking the new Embers... 2 x Fireball is FTW

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

14 Feb 2007 at 20:27 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

........

They're E/Mo backbone skills, and absolutely better than anything else you can put in those slots when you have an energy elite.

That does not mean that these are the old days where you'd use Prodigy and Heal Party and camp in the back and spam Heal Party over and over again because that is the best thing that you can do. Far from it. Eles have been buffed enough that even with the recent nerfs to their first non-energy, money elites, they're respectable facepunchers. Granted they aren't Dragon Slashers Frenzying someone's face, but they don't need to be, because they get the advantages of being a ranged caster and they can carry a bunch of utility that a Warrior simply can't.

I know that you look at that Smoldering Embers bar and see the Monk stuff and frown. While I'm sure that brings up images of the character being a Heal Party bot, the presence of those skills doesn't make that the case. When I'm running a character like that I'm cycling Fireball, Mind Blast, and Smoldering Embers 90% of the time. That's the beauty of that combo, it's a nice compact damage and energy engine in one. You can make a character with those 3 skills and 5 Signets of Capture, and still crank out respectable damage, spending 100% of your time casting DDs. Believe me, I do for long stretches. What that means, is that instead of having to fill the rest of my bar with skills that fill in gaps in spell sequences or otherwise help me beat on things, I can spend them on skills that do anything I want. Similarly on a Mind Blast bar you have a 10-spec in any attribute you feel like, because your energy and your damage are coming from one attribute and a reasonable investment in Energy Storage.

It's from that perspective that Heal Party is so good. Putting that skill on my bar does nothing to my damage output. I have the slots, the attribute points, it's completely free. And what I get from putting it there, is the added ability to instantly shift modes from being a pretty good DPS machine into a pretty good support healer. 90% of the time I'll cycle DDs on enemies, but if the Monks are hurting and the party looks like it's getting rocked, I can simply shift into Mind Blast -> Heal Party -> Mind Blast -> Heal Party for a few cycles to stabilize the team, to let the Monks recover before getting back to blasting things full time. Is that the main plan? Of course not. But it does happen, and the ability to address that fairly common occurance in such a powerful fashion, at such a minimal cost, is so strong that I think you have to be daft to ignore its potential.

Glyph of Sacrifice / Resurrection Chant has the same idea. It does not cost you damage output to bring it on these damage bars - again, 100% of your time can be spent blasting with your other skills. But when someone does happen to die, and people do die in Guild Wars, you have the absolute best mid-combat res available at your fingertips. I'm not going to go over why Glyph/Res is so good, if you've played with it for any period of time I think it becomes obvious. The question has to be, what are you going to gain from *not* running Glyph/Res? How are you going to make better use of those slots? To beat that horse dead once again, Mind Blasters have outstanding slot compression. 100% of your time can be spent casting 3 reasonably efficient damage skills. You don't need to spend the slots on more offense.

So to sum it up, yes, you're going to find Heal Party, Resurrection Chant, and Glyph of Sacrifice on basically every PvE Elementalist bar (with an energy elite) for the forseeable future, because they are simply the strongest skills available. They cost you next to nothing and situationally provide enormous benefits. There may very well be good reasons to not run those skills on this sort of character in PvE - but without something similarly outstanding demanding those attribute points and slots, you're just being daft by leaving them off of your bar.

Peace,
-CxE

Pwnd by a guineapig

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

In your imagination.

knights who say Ni Ni [KWSN]

15 Feb 2007 at 00:49 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

My FoW nuker... chock full of energy management. Nothing makes me more ashamed than to see an ele begging for blood rit after every battle

Fire Magic: 16 (12+3+1)
ES: 13 (12+1)

Fireball
Rodgort's invocation
Meteor
Meteor shower
Arcane echo
Fire attunement
Glyph of energy (E)
Rez sig

The glyph of energy keeps you going much longer and is resistant to enchantment stripping. For areas with minimal enchantment strippage, bring dual attunements and aura of restoration as a cover. Why dont you have a +3 rune for energy storage?

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

15 Feb 2007 at 01:53 - 47

Please, Pwned, an extra few energy at the expense of a *massive* 75 health is simply a waste - especially on a class that has such a high energy and great e-management anyways. Heck, I only run Minor Energy Storage 'cuz I occaisonally run an Energy Storage elite (Prodigy, take a bow!)

stefke86

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2007

15 Feb 2007 at 06:23 - 48

My FoW buld...and pve build in general.

E/Mo

16 fire
14 ES
3 Healing

1:flare
2:fireball
3:glowing gaze
4:rodgorts invocation
5:meteor shower
6:fire attunelent
7:elemental attunement
8:rebirth

Basically using this build i never seem to drop below 50 energy (except in those really long lasting battles)

Strategy is to cast: meteror shower>Rodgorts invocation>Glowing gaze>fireball>spam flare> repeat from rodgorts on if anyone is still standing.

Though many people frownupon that buld,it yet has to fail me (finished prophecies and factions with it, almsot at the end of nightfall aswell))

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

15 Feb 2007 at 07:17 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwnd by a guineapig

Why dont you have a +3 rune for energy storage?

Because I'm not a retard? +9 or however much more energy for -75 health is a crappy tradeoff. For most builds you don't even need the minor rune, I just keep it around for running prodigy and the like. At any rate, that build is hopelessly outdated, having been semi-useful before Factions came out. A pure SF nuker would look something like:

12+3+1 Fire Magic
8+1 Energy Storage
10 Healing Prayers/Earth Magic depending on skill choice

Searing Flames [E]
Glowing Gaze
Mark of Rodgort
Meteor Shower
Fire Attunement
Glyph of lesser energy
Heal Party/ward v melee/glyph of sacrifice, depending on the area
Rez

However, I'm falling more and more in love with

Ebon Hawk
Unsteady Ground
Eruption
Stoning
Earth Attunement
Ward v Melee
Glyph of lesser energy
Rez/Glowstone if playing with heroes/hench

Mostly farks up physicals to no end, but hey, fun stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Mind Blast, Fireball, Incendiary Bonds, Rodgort's Invocation, Fire Attunement, Heal Party, Resurrection Chant, Glyph of Sacrifice I like that bar too, although I prefer bringing searing heat for the scatter effect and nifty consolation damage thrown in. Glyph of sacrifice feels like a weak skill in that build, as it only has one other skill to work with. In PvE, a rebirth sig will do just as well and only hog up one slot.

Smoldering embers feels kind of meh. Yeah, it does fireball damage and all, but it's single target. If you really want single target damage, there are about a billion better options than that. I'm of the opinion that a fire ele should attempt to AoE and AoE well, hoping the gamble will pay off on big bunches of enemies.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

15 Feb 2007 at 11:24 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

A pure SF nuker would look something like:

Mark of Rodgort

I played around with Mark of Rodgort in a Searing Flames build today and I was really unimpressed, to be perfectly honest. It doesn't do anything at all until the third cast of Searing Flames - that one will deal damage instead of cause burning - but you're one cast behind from casting Mark of Rodgort to begin with. So really, Mark doesn't start showing value until your fifth cast of Searing Flames on the same target...which happened so rarely as to be laughable.

In a pack of Searing Flames Eles, Mark of Rodgort continues to lose potency, since the number of Searing Flames triggers it adds does not scale with the number of copies of Searing Flames. With 3 Searing Flames Eles Mark of Rodgort is a complete waste. Liquid Flame outperformed Mark of Rodgort on the standard bar, even after the buff to Mark and the nerf to Searing Flames.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove I like that bar too, although I prefer bringing searing heat for the scatter effect and nifty consolation damage thrown in. Glyph of sacrifice feels like a weak skill in that build, as it only has one other skill to work with. I can see running a Ressig instead through a bulk of PvE, as long as you're assured a bunch of morale boosts the performance would be pretty comparable. If I wasn't such a ninja with the Glyphres I might be more willing to drop it. =)

Glyph of Sacrifice doesn't really combo with any skills besides Resurrection Chant and Meteor Shower. I think Glyph/Res is clearly good enough to run on its own, being the strongest res option in the game...Meteor Shower, I think is completely unplayable without Glyph of Sacrifice already on the bar, and it only becomes ok if the Glyph is there. If you're with a really organized team that's taking its time and balling all the enemies up for Searing Flames or something, sure, have fun with Glyph/Met Shower. Otherwise leave it at home.

Put another way, "Glyph of Sacrifice + Meteor Shower" without Resurrection Chant on your bar is worse than "Good skill + empty slot" in a vast majority of builds and situations.

I've played with Searing Heat a bit post change, it's priced aggressively now, but I'm still sufficiently unhappy with the recharge that it's still nothing more than a cute trick in my mind. I won't cut something actually important for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Smoldering embers feels kind of meh. Yeah, it does fireball damage and all, but it's single target. If you really want single target damage, there are about a billion better options than that. I'm of the opinion that a fire ele should attempt to AoE and AoE well, hoping the gamble will pay off on big bunches of enemies. The thing is...there really aren't better single target options. You can cycle Immolates but that actually isn't any better damage (especially in PvE where the burning from Smoldering Embers will trigger consistently, provided they don't die first) largely because there's really weak synergy between Mind Blast and Immolate, you end up in this cooldown hell where you're wasting a lot of time waiting for things to recharge. If you have the Fireball you're casting Immolate exactly as often as Smoldering Embers, wasting a second standing there in the cycle instead of spending it casting, and dealing less damage overall because of it. What other single target damage options are there? Flare spam? Air guys get a bit higher DPS, but are more fragile, require more slots, are are basically limited to blind for utility. I'm not impressed.

Smoldering Embers is not a good skill. What it is, however, is a skill that happens to fit into the standard timing of a Mind Blaster reasonably well, and is just good enough to outperform objectively better skills that are a whole lot more awkward. The only time that it really shined was in combination with Mark of Rodgort, where it has some cute synergy (Embers triggers the Mark, starts burning, then Embers triggers extending burning), otherwise it's just a blah option that happens to fill the time and needs that I expect of it.

After another night testing various options I think it's clear that, at least in the zones I was doing, Rodgort's Invocation is the best skill to slip in there. It's not impressive by any means, but the high usability, reliability, and synergy in the timing make it work out nicely. It also lessens the emphasis on Smoldering Embers early on against standard trash mobs since you can go Fireball -> Rodgorts -> Fireball to get some decent AoE in there when called for before having to fall back to the single target damage.

Tried Incendiary Bonds as well, I wasn't impressed at all. The hex was removed, monsters died, or otherwise the effect is a whole lot less than it should have been because of how long it takes to do its job. You had to cast it really early on in the fight to make it do anything useful, and that just made the Rodgort's worse. It's ok, but not impressed.

I won't disagree that AoE is a good thing, but if you're not running Searing Flames your AoE options are not attractive. Rodgort's Invocation and Fireball are fine, after that it's a bunch of skills that are awkward to use, or have recharges that aren't justified by the effect. Hence, my tendency to stick to those two AoEs and find ways to stay useful while they're recharging.

Peace,
-CxE

dgb

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/Me

15 Feb 2007 at 14:57 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Nothing has really jumped out as the skill to run, any ideas? You can run pretty much anything there, the character can spend all of his time and energy casting what's already on his bar, so it should be really money. Flash with a mid spec air? It doesn't look particularly intensive on attributes, so you could get away with the splash. The problem with this idea is that you have to choose to mitigate damage or red bars up (Blast->Flash->Blast or Blast->Party->Blast). Aside from that I'm really not sure.

I tried experimenting with something similar as a gank character once, it went Blast, Mark of Rodgort, Fireball, Flash, Freezing Gust, Fire Attune, Storm Djinns, random self heal that I never decided on. With the buffs you'd swap Mark for Smouldering. It made for a decent solo character (constant burning, reasonable DPS), mobility control, physical control, but generally suffered for lack of interupts and the fact that half of the opponents you'd fight would have 80+ AL (warriors, rangers, eles) leaving you in low DPS city...

Lava Font is something that I've played around with. It can get a decent DPS going if you can catch people in them and it's a decent disruption effect for getting a monster off someone.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

15 Feb 2007 at 17:56 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

True, I suppose I was thinking of semi-acceptable way to run a SF by itself, which I no longer advocate at all. It's kind of a weak build now that people only bring for the meteor shower in places like DoA and FoW. SF is reduced to something to do when you're waiting for MS to recharge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign I've played with Searing Heat a bit post change, it's priced aggressively now, but I'm still sufficiently unhappy with the recharge that it's still nothing more than a cute trick in my mind. I won't cut something actually important for it. I'm a huge fan of AoE scatter. In PvE, you usually get all or almost all of the procs from searing heat, and, more importantly, you get an AoE shutdown for a few seconds after which you can completely rearrange aggro. A fun trick, if you can pull it off, is to have a couple of eles chaining DoT to keep the AI permanently scattering.

I'll admit that the recharge is balls, but as the saying goes, if wishes were horses, Izzy would make firestorm not suck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

Lava Font is something that I've played around with. It can get a decent DPS going if you can catch people in them and it's a decent disruption effect for getting a monster off someone. Lava font always seems nice to me at first, but the combination of long casting time, point blank range, low damage, and tiny AoE means it becomes very, very limited in ability.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

15 Feb 2007 at 21:01 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

It's kind of a weak build now that people only bring for the meteor shower in places like DoA and FoW.

I don't know that I'd say that, DoA at least is still an area where people are bringing 3 eles, and with 3 Searing Flames the skill is still very good. The Deep as well, Searing Flames is the elite you want when you're rounding up mobs for a bunch of eles.

But, yeah, for regular gameplay I wouldn't bother with the skill anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove I'm a huge fan of AoE scatter. I am as well, especially for more typical gameplay where you're not carefully rounding up all the mobs. For a period of time I ran Dragon's Breath when Factions first came out, to drop on a guy to make him move...largely for the same reason I could do that with Searing Heat on the Embers bar, because there's a slot on the bar that I never have to use to be effective. But the recharge on all of those ticking AoE skills is horrible. Searing Heat is at least entertaining to think about now, and I've played with it, I just keep cutting it because I want more out of that slot.

If I could add one skill in chapter 4, it'd be:

Flamestrike, Spell. Target foe and all adjacent foes are struck for 15...60 fire damage. Create Flamestrike at target foe's location. For 5 seconds, foes adjacent to that location are struck for 5...20 damage each second. 10/2/10

Pity that if the concept was actually executed, it'd be given a 30 second recharge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Lava font always seems nice to me at first, but the combination of long casting time, point blank range, low damage, and tiny AoE means it becomes very, very limited in ability. At least the damage isn't low anymore. It's a cute anti-aggro skill in PvE, but yeah, the high casting time and tiny AoE make it a weak skill.

Peace,
-CxE

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

16 Feb 2007 at 00:10 - 54

I retract my comment about Searing Heat. I've sufficiently compressed my bar with Mind Blast and Fireball that I don't need a second cast per fight out of that slot, and Searing Heat is an outstanding skill if the recharge isn't a problem. Current bar for regular PvE:

Fireball
Rodgort's Invocation
Searing Heat
Mind Blast
Fire Attunement
Heal Party
Resurrection Chant
Glyph of Sacrifice

16 Fire, 10 Healing, 8 Energy Storage

Peace,
-Cx

draco inferno

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

van down by the river

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

16 Feb 2007 at 07:31 - 55

one thing about mind blasters that is also pretty nice is the ability to adapt to different situations. i have always been a fan of extinguish in high-condition areas and the deep. you don't even need to spend attribute points for it to do its job. you can even change up healing magic for wards or snares if you are desperate to do so (gyala comes to mind). mind blast was something that i looked at during the launch of nf, shifted to sf instead, and never got back to. im really glad you jarred that memory, ensign, and saved me the effort of fishing around for a solid build.

my all time favorite is still starburst nuker though. i love taking off my pants, running around in the enemy's back lines, and making my party exclaim "OMG WTF U NOOB!" here's my standard starburst bar:

e/me
16 fire
8-10 energy
rest in earth/inspiration as you see fit

starburst (E)
flame burst
inferno
flame djinn's haste (when i first heard of the buff, i assure you i leapt for joy. burning speed is what i used to put here and still works if you're looking for that extra "WTF" factor.)
kinetic armor (to make you not die)
fire attunement
channeling
~slot---i generally pack aura of restoration for when the monks get mad and refuse to heal me. a rez is pretty pointless, considering if anyone's gonna die, it will most likely be you.

let's just say it keeps things interesting, 'specially without the pants.

and no, i havent read this whole thread so this could very well already be nestled somewhere in here. similar ideas have also been used in pvp, but i can assure you that i created this without knowing of anyone else using it.

Edge Martinez

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

DKL

16 Feb 2007 at 09:29 - 56

I use:

E/Me
Fire 12+1+2
Energy 12+1

1. Fire attunement
2. Fireball
3. Archane Echo
4. Meteor Shower
5. Glyph of Lesser Energy
6. Liquid Flame
7. Searing Flames {E}
8. Res Sig

If not dealing with large mobs, I'll drop Fireball for Flare. Depending on what the mob is, Breath of Fire may replace Liquid Flame as a defensive measure.

No superior rune needed. I run anything from UW to The Deep. Keep Fire Attunement up, and use the glyph as often as possible. For most things, just spam Searing Flames. It manages energy surprisingly well. Fireball and Liquid Flame are cheaper finishers, or alternatives in a non-critical encounter. Sometimes you just need a nuke, and that's what Meteor Shower is for.

Arcane Echo is a wildcard. I sometimes use it to copy Meteor Shower for a second nuking. Against bosses, like Kanaxi, where conditions don't last as long, I'll use it to copy Searing Flames and chain SF as long as possible. This way the burning on the bosses don't end before the skill recharges and even gives you a second or so of slop in case you aren't on point. You eat energy fast this way though.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

16 Feb 2007 at 12:23 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

Flash with a mid spec air? It doesn't look particularly intensive on attributes, so you could get away with the splash.

I tried that on a Mind Blaster (you can definitely make the attributes work) but wasn't very impressed by it. The problem is that blind, at least the way I've gotten used to using it, is something that you use reactively, on a melee guy as he approaches you or your teammates. In case of emergency, c+blind. You *could* just spam blind on recharge, but BFlash is too expensive for that to be too good. It's better in PvE where blind never gets removed...and maybe it'd be good for that, to lock down a particular enemy indefinitely.

But for me, in practice, blind is something that is best on a character with low time commitments so that he can quickly react to incoming damage. A Mind Blaster, on the other hand, wants 100% time utilization. So while you could blindback a single target as part of your spam sequence, you're not going to use the skill reactively, which is a lot of its strength. I found that for PvE, if you just want some passive melee defense, you should just run a Ward Against Melee and be done with it. Ward works nicely, you don't need a super-high spec and it's easy to get a team to sit in it. Plus, low time commitment, so more time spent blasting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb I tried experimenting with something similar as a gank character once, it went Blast, Mark of Rodgort, Fireball, Flash, Freezing Gust, Fire Attune, Storm Djinns, random self heal that I never decided on. Freezing Gust is something that looks like it'd fit, though it isn't something I'm going to make use of in PvE. You'd have to drop the Party, naturally, to get to 11 Water Magic...but if you did, you have a decent DPS beater with a servicable snare as well. How did that character feel? Experimenting with PvP Mind Blasters has taught me that you really don't want to bog yourself down with lots of utility like the old E/Mos had - Mind Blast and the high Fire spec in general want you to be a beater, while the free attribute points allow you to splash in some interesting tricks. That makes me think that the listed bar would have been an unfocused nightmare to run. How'd it play out for you?

Quote: Originally Posted by draco inferno

one thing about mind blasters that is also pretty nice is the ability to adapt to different situations. Yeah, that's why it's such a pet skill of mine. It enables these two traditional ele concepts, the DD-based Fire beater and the utility Ele, by providing this compact engine that fills a lot of crucial jobs. It's not spectacular, but by being both your energy elite and fire DD, you have the room on your bar to fit in both the fire DDs and the other utility that you want - while providing the energy for those skills and leaving attribute points to play with. Having gotten used to playing utility casters, it's really nice to be a pretty effective offensive character that can switch roles into whatever else I felt like speccing that day without incident.

It almost...feels like playing a physical, where you're building up resources doing what you want to be doing anyway (hitting people with DDs) and using that to pay for the variety of special attacks and utility skills that you put on your bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draco inferno

flame djinn's haste (when i first heard of the buff, i assure you i leapt for joy. The new Flame Djinn's Haste is *awesome*. It's now a combination of a decent PBAoE and a very good speed buff, that just happens to serve as a convenient cover enchantment as well. I absolutely love skills that can provide a bunch of different purposes, I love being speedy, and that makes Flame Djinn's Haste one of the best skills in the Fire line. For all of you fledgling skill designers, this is a skill that shows how to do it right.

Peace,
-CxE

Sophitia Leafblade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]

16 Feb 2007 at 14:35 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

They're E/Mo backbone skills, and absolutely better than anything else you can put in those slots when you have an energy elite.

...

So to sum it up, yes, you're going to find Heal Party, Resurrection Chant, and Glyph of Sacrifice on basically every PvE Elementalist bar (with an energy elite) for the forseeable future, because they are simply the strongest skills available. They cost you next to nothing and situationally provide enormous benefits. There may very well be good reasons to not run those skills on this sort of character in PvE - but without something similarly outstanding demanding those attribute points and slots, you're just being daft by leaving them off of your bar.

Peace,
-CxE *Shudders*
I dont think ive ever used any of those skills on my Ele and she's done just fine getting through the game.

anyways back to the topic at hand. My General Nuking build usually is:

[skill]Glyph of Energy[/skill][skill]Meteor shower[/skill][skill]Rodgort's invocation[/skill][skill]Phoenix[/skill][skill]Fireball[/skill][skill]Glyph of Restoration[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill] [skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Never seems to run out of energy (unless u use Rebirth, which is only for emergency team wipe out scenarios) and provides a good continual damage output.

Katari

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Upstate

Me/

16 Feb 2007 at 15:51 - 59

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

16 Feb 2007 at 17:26 - 60

/agree - with a halfway decent team, by the time the first meteor hits the mob's gonna be just about dead. Glyph of Sacrifice/Meteor Shower's the only way to go IMO. Plus, you can use the Glyph on Res Chant too

ss1986v2

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mo/

16 Feb 2007 at 17:33 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

*Shudders*
I dont think ive ever used any of those skills on my Ele and she's done just fine getting through the game. of course you have just fine; its pve. an empty skill bar with hero/hench will do just fine in most all of pve. it just seems like a waste to leave off such powerful skills for no other reason than to bring skills that wont see much use in a good group (GoE and MS, for example). by the time MS gets dropped, your target should be mostly dead anyway.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

16 Feb 2007 at 22:09 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

I dont think ive ever used any of those skills on my Ele and she's done just fine getting through the game.

You can run pretty much anything you want and still get through the game. I've completed the Gate of Madness mission by moving my heroes around and wanding things, so I'm sure that someone who puts skills on their bar and uses them will have an easier time. Better builds let you accomplish what you're trying to do more quickly, with less deaths and a higher percentage chance of success. Optimal builds are not required for success.

Guild Wars PvE, at least the bulk of the main quests, is balanced so that players can run whatever kinds of characters they find 'fun' and still complete the missions.

Whenever I see Rebirth on a skill bar now, I know it's because the person who uses that skill bar has a radically different Guild Wars experience than I do. It's one where deaths are frequent, full party wipes are common, and everyone running away to try and Rebirth-extract to save the mission is a valuable tool. I know this because I join pugs infrequently to see how that portion of the population actually plays, and that's what I observe.

What your skillbar looks like to me, is the really basic 'I'm a nuker' build that someone who is used to playing with completely unreliable people would make. I won't sit here and try and explain the reasons why that bar is so weak, because your gameplay experience is so different. But suffice to say that if you played with reliable players and started to really focus on just how much you can do, you'd be shaking your head at that skillbar too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Glyph of Sacrifice/Meteor Shower's the only way to go IMO. I agree, and I'll add that the only reason to run that is because of the knockdowns. That can be valuable if you're doing some Deep / DoA style mass fire ele nuking, but otherwise you're getting very little milage out of that skill slot. At this point in time though, after the introduction of Nightfall skills and the recent skill buffs, there's no way I could justify bringing Meteor Shower on a skill bar. You get so little out of that skill slot, not to mention the ridiculous costs for the effect. In 99% of applications it's the ele equivilent of the whammo's Mending - a horribly underpowered solution to a poorly understood problem.

Peace,
-CxE

Danger Russ

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

US East Coast

KISS

Mo/

16 Feb 2007 at 23:32 - 63

This is a dangerous noncookie cutter build I like to use.

E/me

16 fire
13 ES

ISMOKEM

Aura of Restoration
Fire Attunement
Starburst (E)
Arcane Echo
Fireball
Glyph of lesser energy
Flameburst
Meteor Shower

This build is designed to kill small groups quickly and is flexible in its attack range.

Get your enchantments up

For large groups, you can cast glyph -arcane echo-meteor shower -fireball -meteor shower up. Weakens group. pick off weak casters with starburst and flameburst combo.

For small groups especially tight groups - target casters first, cast glyph, meteor storm, arcane echo, starburst (on monk target or other squishy)
while MS is making its presence know Starburst will drag you to melee range for your target. Once you contact him you hit him with starburst - flameburst -arcane echo starburst - fireball ball. The damage is unreal and it effects everyone nearby. starburst and flame burst are ready for reuse seconds later. It is so cool getting off 4 starbursts on a group. Warriors get killed too. Rangers will survive so leave them alone and run back to the group.

fun-fun-fun!!!! Be careful your defense is massive offense.

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

17 Feb 2007 at 01:46 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

Yeah, you can get past PvE with just about anything really. When you start henching it, the quality of skillbars in your party drops. Good 'ole Cynn has a somewhat pooor bar as well, but she's better than nothing.

Meteor Shower is really not that great when you're playing with a good team. That really depends on style imo. I always use MS ahead of the combat, not if the team has already engaged. The latter is indeed a good way to waste your MS. You are right about cutting thru PvE with anything, but I rather cut in style, it's more fun

Grammar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

18 Feb 2007 at 03:48 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I played around with Mark of Rodgort in a Searing Flames build today and I was really unimpressed, to be perfectly honest. It doesn't do anything at all until the third cast of Searing Flames - that one will deal damage instead of cause burning - but you're one cast behind from casting Mark of Rodgort to begin with. So really, Mark doesn't start showing value until your fifth cast of Searing Flames on the same target...which happened so rarely as to be laughable. Actually, you have the combo wrong.

You're assuming: MoR -> SF...(2 sec)...SF...(2 sec)...SF...(2 sec)...etc.

The correct combo: SF -> MoR -> SF...(2 sec)...SF...(2 sec)...SF..(2 sec)...etc.

The correct placement of MoR is AFTER the first SF cast, during the first 2 second downtime. This way, you don't end up one cast behind like you would if you casted MoR first.
This does, however, delay the casting of GG until the second 2 second downtime, but I hardly think that makes much of a difference.
The other benefit of MoR in a SF/GG build is that it makes GG more reliable (GG energy bonus basically becomes guaranteed).....because nothing sucks quite like just-barely missing the burning on your GG cast and therefore just-barely missing the energy bonus (which can happen from time to time now with the shorter burning duration).

I originally shunned MoR in a SF build too. I even made a post slamming it a while back, saying the exact same thing you said about being one cast behind with MoR.
But then the above combo dawned on me, I smacked myself in the head for not realizing it sooner, and I've been using it ever since the SF nerf.

My post-nerf PvE SF build:

Fire: 16 (12+3+1)
Energy Storage: 11 (10+1)
Wilderness Survival: 8

-Fire Attunement
-Aura of Restoration (cover enchantment + some minor top-off heals here and there)
-Glyph of Lesser Energy (perma-20sec recast with SQ)
-Serpent's Quickness
-Searing Flames
-Mark of Rodgort
-Glowing Glaze
-Sunspear Rebirth Signet

Definitely less utility than a E/Mo with Heal Party and a hard rez, but the damage output from machine-gunning SF under SQ without ever having to restart the burning is just nuts.
And, as stated above, SQ at 8 WS syncs up perfectly with GoLE. Every GoLE cast is immediately preceded by SQ:
SQ begins -> cast GoLE..........(20 seconds)..........cast GoLE -> SQ ends..........(20 seconds)..........SQ begins -> cast GoLE.....(etc.)
Basically, you can get 2 GoLE casts in per SQ duration, and then start the process again with no downtime.

I admit though that the idea of running a hybrid damage/support Ele built around Mind Blast is pretty neat stuff. Would probably be great in PuGs. Anything to help out those poor Breeze/Orison monks, lol.

yaxattax

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

R/E

18 Feb 2007 at 20:24 - 66

I use 16 fire magic 15 estorage
E/Me

Mantra of recovery [E]
Meteor Shower
Incendiary Bonds
Fireball
Glowing gaze
Fire Attunement
Glyph of Elemental Power
Res sig or Sunspear Rebirth sig

Start with fire attune, use the glyph then launch the meteor shower at the target, just as its near the end of casting activate mantra of recovery, and throw in incendiary bonds & fireball immediately, this will give for a massive spike on the second hit of the meteor shower. Follow up with glowing gaze for energy. Use incendiary & fireball again to finish any stragglers.

Katari

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Upstate

Me/

18 Feb 2007 at 21:03 - 67

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaxattax
I use 16 fire magic 15 estorage
E/Me

Mantra of recovery [E]
Meteor Shower
Incendiary Bonds
Fireball
Glowing gaze
Fire Attunement
Glyph of Elemental Power
Res sig or Sunspear Rebirth sig

Start with fire attune, use the glyph then launch the meteor shower at the target, just as its near the end of casting activate mantra of recovery, and throw in incendiary bonds & fireball immediately, this will give for a massive spike on the second hit of the meteor shower. Follow up with glowing gaze for energy. Use incendiary & fireball again to finish any stragglers. You're sacrificing 75hp for a mere 6 energy. You're also wasting an elite simply to cut the recharge of a awkward and overrated spell down to 30s, which is still a terrible recharge time. All for weaker damage than a SF or a Mindblast ele can dish out, with zero room for utility.

On the upside, it is technically better than nothing, although it's questionable if that is a better bar than Cynn's.

yaxattax

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

R/E

18 Feb 2007 at 21:19 - 68

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katari
You're sacrificing 75hp for a mere 6 energy. You're also wasting an elite simply to cut the recharge of a awkward and overrated spell down to 30s, which is still a terrible recharge time. All for weaker damage than a SF or a Mindblast ele can dish out, with zero room for utility.

On the upside, it is technically better than nothing, although it's questionable if that is a better bar than Cynn's. You are right. I am sacrificing 75 hp for 6 energy. However that is my choice to make and I made it. Also bearing in mind that when I play with my elementalist I play more than just fire nuker, I have a weapon set and headgear for each type of magic because I play them all frequently. Also you are only looking at the inherent effect of the superior energy storage rune which translates to extra effectiveness on energy storage skills, alternatively I can then take two levels out of that attribute as it would be as if i had a minor rune, except that i can invest 6 or 7 in a 3rd attribute, or raise a 3rd attribute to 10 or 11 if i choose to drop the magic type that is 16 to 15, for example when I want to take skills such as heal party or psychic distraction.

The thread asked for PvE nuker builds, I suggested one that I have found to be effective in some situations, and all you could do was criticise without taking any proper insight as to how my character is run by me. Given that no build can be effective in ALL situations anyway you are just nitpicking.

Extra note - if the elite functions as intended, its not wasted is it? Just because I have pulled it from another professions primary attribute, it doesn't mean it lacks its effect (in this case).

Samuel Dravis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/Me

18 Feb 2007 at 22:03 - 69

yaxattax, why not just use Glyph of Renewal if that's what you're going for anyway?

draco inferno

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

van down by the river

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

18 Feb 2007 at 22:15 - 70

whoa there buddy. no one's judging you. this thread is for build suggestions and help with ideas. all that katari did was provide thoughts on the weaknesses of your build. that's what we're all about: helping each other out by discussing build ideas. dont take it personally.

in terms of the sup e storage rune, i still have to agree with katari. yeah, it's an opinion thing. i personally don't see the point in blowing 75 health over 6 energy. even if you are pressed for energy, switching to a double +15/-1 set can give you the boost you need to make it through the sticky situations.

in terms of your build, you get props in my book for creativity. however, with mantra as your elite, your primarily used spell has a recharge of 30 seconds (i HATE incendiary with a passion). with glyph of renewal, that casting time is reduced to 15 PLUS you have the option of casting it twice in a row. i agree with ensign in that MS is best suited for a quick KD spell, which glyph of sacrifice would work better with. in terms of raw damage, you dish it out pretty fast in the beginning, making for a nice early spike. but your usefulness will then be mitigated a bit as the battle drags on. instead of having the ability to rapidly change targets, you give very high damage to one small area. while that's nice in a lot of situations, the way things are now, you need the ability to change rapidly as the battle drags on. stuff just dies way too fast already in competent groups, which makes quick recharge time skills like SF and mind blasters beautiful for standard pve.
one thing your build is very nice for is tough spots with large, high-health mobs (raisu and fow come to mind). but for general pve, i would rather use an sf or mind blaster.
again, this is all intended to be constructive criticism. if you like playing this build, then more power to you. just remember man: it's a game!

yaxattax

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

R/E

18 Feb 2007 at 22:15 - 71

Because glyph of renewal operates only on the next spell, and I found the 15 second recharge time on Incendiary Bonds incredibly annoying - i.e it was never recharged when I needed it, also the Mantra allows for more controlled repetition of a spell rather than the mindless meteor shower spamming that leads to ridiculous exhaustion. The mantra method allows for a meteor shower and incendiary combo every 30s with incendiary combos in between as necessary, and allows you to recover exhuastion fully between dropping meteor showers. Not much other point really than that. But it works ^^

yaxattax

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

R/E

18 Feb 2007 at 22:20 - 72

Quote:
Originally Posted by draco inferno

whoa there buddy. no one's judging you. this thread is for build suggestions and help with ideas. all that katari did was provide thoughts on the weaknesses of your build. that's what we're all about: helping each other out by discussing build ideas. dont take it personally.

in terms of the sup e storage rune, i still have to agree with katari. yeah, it's an opinion thing. i personally don't see the point in blowing 75 health over 6 energy. even if you are pressed for energy, switching to a double +15/-1 set can give you the boost you need to make it through the sticky situations.

in terms of your build, you get props in my book for creativity. however, with mantra as your elite, your primarily used spell has a recharge of 30 seconds (i HATE incendiary with a passion). with glyph of renewal, that casting time is reduced to 15 PLUS you have the option of casting it twice in a row. i agree with ensign in that MS is best suited for a quick KD spell, which glyph of sacrifice would work better with. in terms of raw damage, you dish it out pretty fast in the beginning, making for a nice early spike. but your usefulness will then be mitigated a bit as the battle drags on. instead of having the ability to rapidly change targets, you give very high damage to one small area. while that's nice in a lot of situations, the way things are now, you need the ability to change rapidly as the battle drags on. stuff just dies way too fast already in competent groups, which makes quick recharge time skills like SF and mind blasters beautiful for standard pve.
one thing your build is very nice for is tough spots with large, high-health mobs (raisu and fow come to mind). but for general pve, i would rather use an sf or mind blaster.
again, this is all intended to be constructive criticism. if you like playing this build, then more power to you. just remember man: it's a game! To be honest my build was posted with FoW in mind ^^ its where I used it

I don't nuke in other places, I find other elements more useful, fire magic is generally overrated. Or sometimes I just take all domination skills and play as a mesmer (on my ele)

??Ripskin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mo/

19 Feb 2007 at 06:39 - 73

Well.. I'm not reading any posts.. so this is my build..
1. Liquid Flame
2. Immolulate
3. Fireball
4. Meteor shower
5. Arcane Echo
6. elemental Attunement
7. Fire attunement
8. sunspear rebirth (or just rez signet...)

It's all good. It's the easiest build of them all :\ I'ms ure someone along the line put down this exact build.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

19 Feb 2007 at 07:08 - 74

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaxattax
Because glyph of renewal operates only on the next spell, and I found the 15 second recharge time on Incendiary Bonds incredibly annoying - i.e it was never recharged when I needed it, also the Mantra allows for more controlled repetition of a spell rather than the mindless meteor shower spamming that leads to ridiculous exhaustion. The mantra method allows for a meteor shower and incendiary combo every 30s with incendiary combos in between as necessary, and allows you to recover exhuastion fully between dropping meteor showers. Not much other point really than that. But it works ^^ If you really feel that the recharges on your other fire magic skills are too painful, I'd suggest serpent's quickness over mantra of recovery- it doesn't waste an elite, it doesn't drain your energy as badly, and you can put attribute points in WS to improve the duration. As others said, if you want the fast recharge on MS only, glyph of renewal is a vastly better choice.

I personally feel that ibonds is a weak skill - it's almost impossible to make the AoE hit where you want, or even to hit at all if your target dies. The only times I bring it is when I already have fireball, rodgorts, and a ticking AoE on my bar and don't feel that I'd gain any benefit from some other utility on my bar (rarely).

Also, there is never, ever a reason to run energy storage at 14 or above. Usually more than 10 is overkill, and I sometimes run builds with it as low as 4. A couple reasons for this-

1: Your only benefit from superior ES is +6 energy. No skills improvements, no passive effects, no happy bells and whistles. Just 6 energy which is enough for, um, flare. Once.

2: 380 health makes you very spike prone, and the slightest touch of dp will leave you dying in one hit. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to watch double sup eles die in one hit from environmental effects.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

19 Feb 2007 at 09:32 - 75

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
I can't tell you how frustrating it is to watch double sup eles die in one hit from environmental effects. I can tell you that I derive amusement from watching double suped eles die over and over whenever anything looks a them funny. You have to be sure to ask them if they're running double supes after they blow up for the third time. Remember, if they didn't know they were too fragile to be useful with double supes, they certainly don't know they're too fragile with double supes and 40% DP. *grins evilly*

No, I don't pug when I actually care about the results, do you?

Peace,
-CxE

Mouse at Large

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Scotland

Fuzzy Physics Institute

E/

19 Feb 2007 at 16:21 - 76

Fire attune
GoLE
SF
GG
Mark of Rodgort
Liquid Flame
MS
Aura of Rest

16 Fire
13 ES

With Guildies and heros in PvE, a res should not be needed

P.S.

MS is there purely for boss mobs. Send in the melee classes, bunch them up, Rodgort/MS/SF/Liquid Flame then move on

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

19 Feb 2007 at 22:41 - 77

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grammar
Actually, you have the combo wrong. I did indeed. Casting it after the first SF or before doesn't make a difference, so you save a couple seconds that way. Good catch. In terms of energy though it's still identical - you only get extra damage out of Searing Flames on the (equivilent) of the 5th cast. The time compression does clearly help though.

I should say I was wrong anyway about being a cast behind on time before - at worst, you'd be only half a cast behind on time by opening with Mark of Rodgort.

Right now for heavily clustered, SF/Mark style mobs, I'm enjoying Savannah Heat -> Deep Freeze -> Searing Heat -> Teinai's Heat. Mobs don't start to run until the Deep Freeze hits and then it's too late.

Peace,
-CxE

draco inferno

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

van down by the river

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

20 Feb 2007 at 18:02 - 78

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Right now for heavily clustered, SF/Mark style mobs, I'm enjoying Savannah Heat -> Deep Freeze -> Searing Heat -> Teinai's Heat. Mobs don't start to run until the Deep Freeze hits and then it's too late. how would glyph+MS+earthbind affect this string? something like earthbind-> deep freeze -> glyph -> MS -> savannah -> searing heat -> teinais heat. maybe throw savannah before glyph for some faster damage. yeah, it would be a high energy/long recharge spike build, but i really can't forsee anything escaping it... ever.

Grammar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

20 Feb 2007 at 20:50 - 79

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Right now for heavily clustered, SF/Mark style mobs, I'm enjoying Savannah Heat -> Deep Freeze -> Searing Heat -> Teinai's Heat. Mobs don't start to run until the Deep Freeze hits and then it's too late. Damn, that's one hell of a destructive combo there, lol.
That sequence will utterly violate cluster #1, but what if there's a cluster #2?

The problem I have with fire bars like that is the "now what?" part that comes after you unleash your combo.
The recasts on that particular combo are 25, 15, 30, and 30, respectively, so you'll have some down time in there. I suppose there's always wanding and/or Heal Party.

I guess what drew me to Searing Flames is the complete lack of any downtime. It's perpetual if the rest of your build is proper.
The obvious downside of this is that is doesn't allow for any utility or flexibility. Now that I added MoR to my SF bar on account of the SF nerf, my entire bar has been consumed by SF and the skills needed to run it (save for a rez).
But in the world of PvE, that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make when playing Ele. Ele is the only class in GW where I feel it's perfectly acceptable to be built for 100% damage and 0% utility in PvE (again, save for rez).
Meh, but maybe that's just me.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

20 Feb 2007 at 21:52 - 80

Quote:
Originally Posted by draco inferno
how would glyph+MS+earthbind affect this string?

Meteor Shower + Earthbind is not a combo - instead of getting 3 2 second knockdowns with 1s in between, you get 2 3 second knockdowns with 3 seconds in between. The only thing it accomplishes is guaranteeing that the second meteor hits if the first one does, but they're virtually guaranteed to get away after that.

All you're really doing by adding GoS/MS is lowering the ovarall damage and AoE of the 'heavy nuking'. The timing on that sequence works so that Teinai's Heat finishes ticking about the time Deep Freeze expires. If you wanted to slip in a GoS/MS, you'd want to do it after the Searing Heat, before the Teinai's, to make the knockdown matter...but really, that stack of DoTAoEs does enough damage that the MS is pretty much worthless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar Damn, that's one hell of a destructive combo there, lol.
That sequence will utterly violate cluster #1, but what if there's a cluster #2? Well that's a bar I'd only really ever run in the Deep or DoA, where you're clustering everything up to be blasted. There really isn't a second cluster there ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar

Ele is the only class in GW where I feel it's perfectly acceptable to be built for 100% damage and 0% utility in PvE It's about as acceptable as building physicals solely for damage. As long as you have some other guys taking care of basic utility roles, you can get away with it.

Peace,
-CxE