I have completed The Deep in the ballpark of 50-60 times. My green drop ratios were in the beginning 1 in 2. Then it dropped to 1 in 4. Creeped down to 1 in 9. And finally plummeted down to 0 for 20. I have spoken to others whom I party often with (no life, GW hardcores like me) whom experienced the same situation.
I've stopped going to The Deep for almost two weeks now and started aggressively in Urgoz. My drop ratio there is also astonishingly bad so far; 0 for 5.
One friend of mine, said that he went 0 for 20 in Urgoz after staying away from The Deep.
So I have several questions for people with the same experiences.
Is there a limit to amount of greens that you can receive there?
If so, does anyone know how long I have to stay away from The Deep to start getting drops again? I have a friend who waited two weeks and still have not picked up a reasonable drop count if any at all.
Are the drops connected between Urgoz and The Deep if there is a quota or farming penalty?
I am concerned because I am decent at the elite missions and have tons of patience. It is my main form of game income and main form of fun in Cantha. But I don't want to waste my time there if I know the deck is heavily stacked against me.
Any EDUCATED help would be much appreciated. Please keep comments and conjecture to yourselves. Thanks in advance.
Sean
Dwindling Green Drop Ratios in the Elites
PureSyn
Crimson Ashwood
Ok, noobish contribution that everyone can ignore, but does this not relate to the anti-farming code in Guild Wars that throttles down the drop rates of frequently visited areas. If it is such a thing, I have not heard reports of it returning, as it's to encourage people to not sit in one spot...
I experianced this same phenomina when farming at the ToPK, and gave up permanently.
Either that, or recent updates to the game have hightened the rarity of drops in this elite mission... speculation... (it happens).
I experianced this same phenomina when farming at the ToPK, and gave up permanently.
Either that, or recent updates to the game have hightened the rarity of drops in this elite mission... speculation... (it happens).
RTSFirebat
Green drops thorughout the green are very low. Its due to the intial flux of people over farming them.
Same with everything in like game, like the Icy Dragon Sword, and has nothing to do with the anti-farming code.
Overfarming of any rares reduces the number of drops.
Same with everything in like game, like the Icy Dragon Sword, and has nothing to do with the anti-farming code.
Overfarming of any rares reduces the number of drops.
Zinger314
Probability is completely random.
3 greens drop from a boss. Hence you have a 3/12 (1/4) chance. No more, no less.
3 greens drop from a boss. Hence you have a 3/12 (1/4) chance. No more, no less.
PureSyn
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
Probability is completely random.
3 greens drop from a boss. Hence you have a 3/12 (1/4) chance. No more, no less. |
The reasonable mind will tell you that the odds are 1 in 4 respectively. The elite bosses always drop 3 greens. But when the ratio drops down to 1 in 20, there are concerns. I am asking for other people experiences there who have been there frequently--like 2 or 3 kills per day. If there are others with the same experiences then this thread will help others understand more about the penalties involved.
I've spoke to others as well who have gone 0 for 20 after long exposures there which leads me to believe that I have some cause for concern.
Kali Magdalene
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Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
Green drops thorughout the green are very low. Its due to the intial flux of people over farming them.
Same with everything in like game, like the Icy Dragon Sword, and has nothing to do with the anti-farming code. Overfarming of any rares reduces the number of drops. |
Is there any evidence that this is true, or is it simply an assumption?
KamikazeChicken
It's all luck, so get over it. I did Urgoz 5 times and got 0 greens for it, and I havn't bothered going back. (Not b/c of the lack of greens but b/c I havn't gotten around to it.)
mtm
You'll need a serious statistical sample to support this, and size 100 is far from that.
RTSFirebat
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Originally Posted by Kali Magdalene
I've asked this elsewhere but couldn't find the post again:
Is there any evidence that this is true, or is it simply an assumption? |
SF is the best example. When it was first added greens would drop all the time, even in hench teams.
The green drops in SF have steadly been dropping, thus the reason for small and smaller farming groups.
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by PureSyn
I have completed The Deep in the ballpark of 50-60 times.
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squan
well this is what i do. i mostly go to the deep with my monk, first i do some deep runs. and no UW runs. i do this for about 1 or 2 days, then i play some missions for 1 day. after that i do UW runs. then after that 1 day of missions. and then i do Urgoz mission.
the thing i noticed is that i get more ecto drops. for the elite missions i only once got a green (Kanaxai edge). but the chest drops are nice. once i had a Zodiac Sword +15^50 +30 req 9, zodiac bow +15^50 req 10, and a vertebreaker +15^50 req 10.
Maybee i was just lucky, but maybee it works better if you do different things with your char, instead of farming a lot with him.
the thing i noticed is that i get more ecto drops. for the elite missions i only once got a green (Kanaxai edge). but the chest drops are nice. once i had a Zodiac Sword +15^50 +30 req 9, zodiac bow +15^50 req 10, and a vertebreaker +15^50 req 10.
Maybee i was just lucky, but maybee it works better if you do different things with your char, instead of farming a lot with him.
AquilaI
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
Currently assumption, with some minor testing.
SF is the best example. When it was first added greens would drop all the time, even in hench teams. The green drops in SF have steadly been dropping, thus the reason for small and smaller farming groups. |
bah!
jackie
Yep it's a theory that drop rates are reseted/getting better if one goes to do some missions & quests in between of farming.
RTSFirebat
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Originally Posted by jackie
Yep it's a theory that drop rates are reseted/getting better if one goes to do some missions & quests in between of farming.
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Kali Magdalene
I've done 5, 10, 20 runs in a row at Elona Reach averaging about 500gold per run. Just when I think drops are starting to fall off, I'll get a run with a gold, or a few purples, or in one case, six Elonian keys.
I realize it's by far not the best farming spot, but it's the easiest place for me to see how many times I can go before I see anything that looks like anti-farming measures.
Firebat, thank you for the answer.
I realize it's by far not the best farming spot, but it's the easiest place for me to see how many times I can go before I see anything that looks like anti-farming measures.
Firebat, thank you for the answer.
AquilaI
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Originally Posted by Kali Magdalene
I've done 5, 10, 20 runs in a row at Elona Reach averaging about 500gold per run. Just when I think drops are starting to fall off, I'll get a run with a gold, or a few purples, or in one case, six Elonian keys.
I realize it's by far not the best farming spot, but it's the easiest place for me to see how many times I can go before I see anything that looks like anti-farming measures. Firebat, thank you for the answer. |
toon-a-loon
I have also noticed that new characters get the drops more than a year old character.
Kali Magdalene
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Originally Posted by AquilaI
Sshh, don't say that. Anet might find out and nerf it
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Sorry, sorry. I meant 5 gold per run. And modless Fiery Dragon Swords.
Big_Iron
I believe the reason is that there are a finite number of Green items, as well as other rares. When areas are over-farmed the "good" drops become more rare. Green and rare items will go back into the "pool" if they're sold to merchants or someone deletes them from their inventory, among other things (i.e. deleted accounts and so on).
Mr_T_bot
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
Currently assumption, with some minor testing.
SF is the best example. When it was first added greens would drop all the time, even in hench teams. The green drops in SF have steadly been dropping, thus the reason for small and smaller farming groups. |
Liu
You could finish it 100 times and still get no drop. There wouldn't be anything wrong with it. Random is random, after all...
jimmy_logic
Well in computer terms random really mean pseudo-random, but the algorithms used to generate randomness are very good so close enough. 
PureSyn
FACT
There is an in-game hint screen which states that repeatedly killing the same creature(s) in the same location would cause the value of the loot dropped to be reduced for a period of time.
This even states so in pre-ascalon hint screen if anyone has ever bothered to read it. So we know that often farming will cause a depletion of drops.
Now the drops itself in The Deep are always 3! Never more, never less. But who gets those three on a frequency basis is the question. Has anyone killed Kanaxai 50 or more times to experience the not-so coincidental drop ratios?
And yes I like to do other things other than elite missions. But I do elites well and have made lots in game income there. I don't know a person that likes to play a game broke, or have ever said "Man, I love playing this game while I am zero'd out. It gives me a higher value of appreciation for the noobs."
This wasn't a post to brag, flame, or start interest. More like has anyone seen similar numbers to mine in the elites?
1/2, 1/2, 1/2, 1/4, 1/4, 1/9, 1/9, 0/20
Is it coincidence if your chances go down in an almost patterned way? Any help from others who frequent the elite would be much appreciated.
There is an in-game hint screen which states that repeatedly killing the same creature(s) in the same location would cause the value of the loot dropped to be reduced for a period of time.
This even states so in pre-ascalon hint screen if anyone has ever bothered to read it. So we know that often farming will cause a depletion of drops.
Now the drops itself in The Deep are always 3! Never more, never less. But who gets those three on a frequency basis is the question. Has anyone killed Kanaxai 50 or more times to experience the not-so coincidental drop ratios?
And yes I like to do other things other than elite missions. But I do elites well and have made lots in game income there. I don't know a person that likes to play a game broke, or have ever said "Man, I love playing this game while I am zero'd out. It gives me a higher value of appreciation for the noobs."
This wasn't a post to brag, flame, or start interest. More like has anyone seen similar numbers to mine in the elites?
1/2, 1/2, 1/2, 1/4, 1/4, 1/9, 1/9, 0/20
Is it coincidence if your chances go down in an almost patterned way? Any help from others who frequent the elite would be much appreciated.
Crimson Ashwood
Yes, I also don't see why the anti-farming code (as stated above) wouldn't apply in elite missions, I assume it'd be universal in the game. I guess everything is speculation, but the one thing that isn't, is the anti-farming code itself, stated to be present by the game itself.
pork soldier
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Originally Posted by jackie
Yep it's a theory that drop rates are reseted/getting better if one goes to do some missions & quests in between of farming.
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PureSyn
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Originally Posted by Liu
You could finish it 100 times and still get no drop. There wouldn't be anything wrong with it. Random is random, after all...
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shardfenix
The more you visit an area, the less valuable drops and less drops you get. It's been this way for months. In fact, the first time you farm an area ~ 10 times, a tutorial window pops up and tells you youre getting less drops.
PureSyn
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Originally Posted by shardfenix
The more you visit an area, the less valuable drops and less drops you get. It's been this way for months. In fact, the first time you farm an area ~ 10 times, a tutorial window pops up and tells you youre getting less drops.
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Tarkin
My drop rate is...
Finish Urgoz 1 time (try 3 times to come to urgoz) urgoz longbow
Finish The deep 1 time (i come 3 times to kama (try 6 times)) kama edege
P.S all 3 times in kama we dont have the @$#%^%$$@#@#$ rent enchants... and i ask before we start who have rent enchants?
Finish Urgoz 1 time (try 3 times to come to urgoz) urgoz longbow
Finish The deep 1 time (i come 3 times to kama (try 6 times)) kama edege
P.S all 3 times in kama we dont have the @$#%^%$$@#@#$ rent enchants... and i ask before we start who have rent enchants?
LoKi Foxfire
As being one of the first people in the Deep after the Germans, I can effectively tell you that before TC let the flood into there - we would find an average of 6-7 chests per run. I doubt anyone will get close to that number anymore now. :]
Y.T.
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Originally Posted by Kali Magdalene
I've asked this elsewhere but couldn't find the post again:
Is there any evidence that this is true, or is it simply an assumption? |
i wasnt really surprised tho when it turned out that i had at at least twice as much drops during late nite (like 2am-3am est) compare to 5pm-7pm, and of cos the number of players (possible farmers or just ppl who will enter the same area simultaneously) highly exceeded the number of players during late nite... not like i really planned some statanalysis here, but its not the 1st discussion of *how random is the drop rate* so i spend some time on research... i'm not really into farming, but paying 1k for each skill for all 6 chars with all 6 2ndries made me farm, and farming is oh so boring, so i didnt know what to do to make it less boring
FrogDevourer
Global auto-nerf. The more people farming repeatedly the same areas (bosses or chests), the crappiest the average loot. It's been obvious since beta: Riverside Zealots, Kryta Giants, Ettins, Trolls, Griffons, UW, SF, IDS, and more recently chest runs and many popular Canthan greens. Farmers are simply nerfing their own loot. Enjoy!
Aerian_Skybane
Just thought Id throw this out there, but if you dont have hints on in you UI (which most people do have it off), you will NOT see the anti-farm dialouge display. I have tested this back when the whole ettin thing was a huge deal and when i had hints (i think its called that, something similar, im at work and cant completly verify its description) turned off, the warning did not show up. When i had it turned on, i would get the warning.
Similar thing to people saying the aspenwood percentage of progression isnt showing up when you start. Hints are off.
Similar thing to people saying the aspenwood percentage of progression isnt showing up when you start. Hints are off.
Russell.Crowe
haha, it amuses me that over half the people in this thread don't understand he isn't talking at all about the anti-farm code
BTW my overall drop ratio is 3/11, I got a drop the first two times then the next time it took 5 tries, the chance is just completely random. I do notice that of the new people we take each night at least 1 of them generally gets a drop =/
BTW my overall drop ratio is 3/11, I got a drop the first two times then the next time it took 5 tries, the chance is just completely random. I do notice that of the new people we take each night at least 1 of them generally gets a drop =/
Liu
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Originally Posted by PureSyn
If you were in a raffle with just 4 people. Your odds are 1 in 4. And you lose 100 times. Is that random? Or is it rigged? Because if you kill Kanaxai or Urgoz, the boss always drops 3 greens for a group of 12 people or less; thus, giving ur odds at 1 to 4 for a green.
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For example, if a number between 1 to 4 was chosen randomly, and you win a prize if the number 4 is chosen, you could play that game for the rest of your life and never get the number 4. Why? Randomness (Not a word).
Although highly unlikely, as I said.
Funk ee Monk ee
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Originally Posted by PureSyn
FACT
There is an in-game hint screen which states that repeatedly killing the same creature(s) in the same location would cause the value of the loot dropped to be reduced for a period of time. |
That code targets bot farmers that kill the first 2-3 mobs in an area, map to town and sell everything, repeat. I was getting Indomitable Survivor for my ele and farmed ALL the hydra around Augury at least 30 times without doing anything else and never saw the message and never noticed any falloff in loot quality.
SUPPOSITION
It may not apply here where a boss always drops greens but it is obvious areas can be overfarmed. I think there is code in place that says have X boss drop his green item Y times every hour (also applies to gold/rare drops) and those numbers add up if not killed in that time frame (say, 5 drops/hr and onlu killed once that hour, next hour will be 9 drops). Someone has documented that he was farming the Dragon Mosses from the 'New Escort' quest and getting tons of rare drops. These monsters only appear in a certain quest that is not primary, hence no one had returned to farm them. After he got many rares, the drops tailed off. I have personally farmed them 10+ times and have gotten only one rare, I think because it was poste d on the forums and many people are farming them.
btw, the green drop ratio in SF is up again. Likely because people are farming factions rather than SF (fewer kills/hour).
Sir Skullcrasher
Farming greens is all random.. like my experience in the new tomb. I been through there the first three time, nothing dropped for me. Also i think if you go farm at certain areas or missions multiple time, it would lower the chance of giving you any decent drops.
achilles ankle
wanna know why drops are down..could have told u this months ago. its because ppl thought they were so cool letting everyone and their brother into the deep saying "its a game for everyone, everyone should have a shot at it". well not look what has happend. drops are down, the greens sell for waaaaay less than they should and now u are actually wondering why the drop rates are down. this is hilarious cuz i think i was prob 1 out of 1000ppl who said only allow ppl into those elite mission who have EARNED it. go figure ppl u brought this upon urselfs.
sins
for those who are arguing random... i'd would argue that randomness does not exist. not in life, and expecially not in code. All random generating functions are based off a pattern, and if it's based off a pattern then its not "random"
yes... the deep has screwed me, but i have nothing better to do.... than to get screwed by it..i guess. sometimes i feel like leaving the elite missions with Kanaxai's or urgoz's leg.. or taking the empty chest with me... just to be able to walk out of it with something. i've become a sore loser and a bad sport, and will no longer congrat people on their good fortune.
yes... the deep has screwed me, but i have nothing better to do.... than to get screwed by it..i guess. sometimes i feel like leaving the elite missions with Kanaxai's or urgoz's leg.. or taking the empty chest with me... just to be able to walk out of it with something. i've become a sore loser and a bad sport, and will no longer congrat people on their good fortune.
Matsumi
I haven't gotten a single green drop since after the "Double-Your-Scroll" weekend ended. In fact, that's usually all I get now is scrolls, or a crappy item drop. I've been trying to get a Vera off and on, went to sorrows furnace and did all the quests, and still not one green has dropped. Guess I'll go do a mission and see if that clears it up, but I doubt it for some reason.