OK, so this is a petition to get rid of a maximum number of minions that a necromancer can control without killing one in order to summon a new one.
(NOTE: this dosnt include increasing number of flesh golems u can control, only the non-elite minions)
the reason: this will not really over-power the necromancer, because lets say u actually get up to 30 minions without having the first 10 or w\e deadd or dying by then, if u use blood of the master to keep ur 30 or so minions alive, either the skill itself will kill u, or a monster will kill you because you'd be down to like 80 hp or somthing.
if people do not agree that the limit needs to be gotten rid of, maybe just an increase in the max? cause 10 minions kinda isnt enough for some places.
Petition: Get rid of Minion Limit
Xx Monk Hunter Xx
AW Lore
not signed.
minion masters are still very powerful, 10 are more than enough.
even though MMs are very useful to finish missions, they are not a must, i henchied all the way through with several different characters without a MM.
the limit of the minions was set up due to alliance battles/fort aspenwood.
during the FPE minion masters there could practically summon and summon and summon minions well over the 20s without even bothering to heal them.
minion masters are still very powerful, 10 are more than enough.
Quote:
| cause 10 minions kinda isnt enough for some places. |
the limit of the minions was set up due to alliance battles/fort aspenwood.
during the FPE minion masters there could practically summon and summon and summon minions well over the 20s without even bothering to heal them.
Sparticus Meridus
Yeah but why the cap? Stop Capping and nerfing everything. Minions, AOE, it's getting rediculous
Undivine
They just introduced the cap. Why would they take it away all of a sudden? And for the record, there are other ways to heal minions besides Blood of the Master.
Ristaron
I agree. Let everyone be overpowered rather than everyone being underpowered. These are ASCENDED characters we're talking about... you know... gods? Demigods at least.
This is a clash of the Titans, not some talented nobodies fighting each other for control of a hill.
Quit nerfing things that don't matter and start attacking the over abused aspects of the game *coughtouchnecroscoughbotscough*
Honestly, minions are easily destroyed by AoE, but instead of allowing people to realize this - you go and nerf them both beforehand, making us more vulnerable to the cookie-cutter and less-skillful builds (l33t mending-on-me wammos, touch necros, etc). Step back and realize that good players can't set the bar high enough when you keep nerfing those builds that take talent and practice. This just leads to people using [sometimes genius] combinations that make the build good enough that they don't have to have any skill.
Just FYI: one on one I can take out any of the wammos or touch necros (or any other cookie-cutter build user) who falls under that category (provided we start off with full health and energy...), it's just when you have ten of them at a time in any given situation, it gets rediculous.
This is a clash of the Titans, not some talented nobodies fighting each other for control of a hill.
Quit nerfing things that don't matter and start attacking the over abused aspects of the game *coughtouchnecroscoughbotscough*
Honestly, minions are easily destroyed by AoE, but instead of allowing people to realize this - you go and nerf them both beforehand, making us more vulnerable to the cookie-cutter and less-skillful builds (l33t mending-on-me wammos, touch necros, etc). Step back and realize that good players can't set the bar high enough when you keep nerfing those builds that take talent and practice. This just leads to people using [sometimes genius] combinations that make the build good enough that they don't have to have any skill.
Just FYI: one on one I can take out any of the wammos or touch necros (or any other cookie-cutter build user) who falls under that category (provided we start off with full health and energy...), it's just when you have ten of them at a time in any given situation, it gets rediculous.
Jin Of Stealth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sparticus Meridus
Yeah but why the cap? Stop Capping and nerfing everything. Minions, AOE, it's getting rediculous
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Minions is fine I guess, I don't mind actually controlling a max of 10, cuz it is pretty hard to maintain them. I have a lvl 18 MM which can control 8. It's pretty tough controlling 8 bone fiends. I think people are complaining about minion group size is because they use the cheapy factory skills like bone minions, horrors, and golems. They're the 3 MM skills that are easy to regain the energy back and make more. It only costs 15 energy, which is pretty low for a MM, but it is pretty balanced. The only reason they capped the MM is because they were mass producing minions beyond even try to face all of them.
Jin Of Stealth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sparticus Meridus
Yeah but why the cap? Stop Capping and nerfing everything. Minions, AOE, it's getting rediculous
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Minions is fine I guess, I don't mind actually controlling a max of 10, cuz it is pretty hard to maintain them. I have a lvl 18 MM which can control 8. It's pretty tough controlling 8 bone fiends. I think people are complaining about minion group size is because they use the cheapy factory skills like bone minions, horrors, and golems. They're the 3 MM skills that are easy to regain the energy back and make more. It only costs 15 energy, which is pretty low for a MM, but it is pretty balanced. The only reason they capped the MM is because they were mass producing minions beyond even try to face all of them.
/not signed
CagedinSanity
This is why I'd much prefer to use Blood necros instead, more damage and offensiveness that way.
Xx Monk Hunter Xx
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Originally Posted by Jin Of Stealth
I have to admit, AoE is when they went wrong. AoE's are useless in PvE and in PvP all they have to do is move outta the way.
Minions is fine I guess, I don't mind actually controlling a max of 10, cuz it is pretty hard to maintain them. I have a lvl 18 MM which can control 8. It's pretty tough controlling 8 bone fiends. I think people are complaining about minion group size is because they use the cheapy factory skills like bone minions, horrors, and golems. They're the 3 MM skills that are easy to regain the energy back and make more. It only costs 15 energy, which is pretty low for a MM, but it is pretty balanced. The only reason they capped the MM is because they were mass producing minions beyond even try to face all of them. |
Sirix Leai
Speaking from a PvE point of view as I never played MM in PvP Im fine with a 10 minion cap. May miss the amusing days of massive minion army of 50 or so minions running around wailing on things but the minion cap was for the good I feel. Just makes you think of better ways to utalize what minions you have, like buffing a golem and watching it stand and take even more damage from more enemies and dish out even more. My only lingering complaint about MM is the lack of ability to command your minions effectively.
Tristan the Impure
It's not about that. The point is that this is a game. How can you have a human who can summon bone horrors from dead bodies, but he can only have 10? He can rain fire and meteors down from the sky or lava bubble up all around him, but the AI knows what happening somehow and runs away? It's retarded. And ANET is so concerned with nerfing stupid stuff and controlling ppl cursing, that they let cookie-cutter losers ruin the game with touch necros and IWAY and all these crappy lame builds. Not to mention the bots that are ruining the economy.
fallot
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Originally Posted by Tristan the Impure
but the AI knows what happening somehow and runs away?
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Vilaptca
I'm guessing none of you played in the Alliance battles against a MM during the Faction preview events....
Seriously, want to see how powerful a MM without the cap really was...
Seriously, want to see how powerful a MM without the cap really was...
fiery
The limit is here to stay.
Flopjack
Area of Effect was not nerfed so bad. The NPCs merely do what any player with half a brain stem would do in the first place. Even then, I see many many players stand in the blunt of an AOE Fire Spell, either because they don't notice it, the damage doesn't concern them, or something else is more important at that time. And as a part time nuker, I can say there are PLENTY of times in which NPCs stand in the AOE for the full extent. Of course, when your skill bar is something along the lines of: Breath of Fire, Firestorm, Searing Heat, Teinai's Heat, Meteor Shower and Fireball, where can they stand without getting burned?
In PvE, I think a minion cap was fair. It was becoming a little nuts to have 1 MM deal as much damage as the party, creating a big enough meat shield nothing could get through it. However, in PvP, I don't think MMs should be capped. If a Necromancer wants to spend all their time, skills and mana conjuring up a small army, let them. It makes Elementalists all the more valuable. Though I like that this game is mostly about team work. Sometimes it is fun to see two huge forces just duke it out, weather that is 1 MM controlling 30 minions vs 10 warriors, people vs people or any combo of the two, even with NPCs in the fray.
In PvE, I think a minion cap was fair. It was becoming a little nuts to have 1 MM deal as much damage as the party, creating a big enough meat shield nothing could get through it. However, in PvP, I don't think MMs should be capped. If a Necromancer wants to spend all their time, skills and mana conjuring up a small army, let them. It makes Elementalists all the more valuable. Though I like that this game is mostly about team work. Sometimes it is fun to see two huge forces just duke it out, weather that is 1 MM controlling 30 minions vs 10 warriors, people vs people or any combo of the two, even with NPCs in the fray.
Cataclysm
As a MM, I must say that setting a limit was not so bad. Nerfing Veratas was.
The 10 Minion Limit is fine in PvP because otherwise we'd get armies of Oro Farming proportions in AB and Aspenwood. However, I dont like the 10 minion limit in PvE. The ability to solo almost any area was part of the reason I loved MM so much.
/half signed. Keep limit for PvP, but do away with it for PvE. Unnerf Veratas Sacrifice
The 10 Minion Limit is fine in PvP because otherwise we'd get armies of Oro Farming proportions in AB and Aspenwood. However, I dont like the 10 minion limit in PvE. The ability to solo almost any area was part of the reason I loved MM so much.
/half signed. Keep limit for PvP, but do away with it for PvE. Unnerf Veratas Sacrifice
The Hand Of Death
I play MM at times, and I personally like the limit. It gives me something to work for in building the army and some point to stay at. With the new minion thiefs in AB it is hard to control 10 minions as it is so why complain about a cap that is seldom going to be reached. If the other team doesnt have a minion thief then there is something wrong...
In PvE same thing, it gives me something to work for. I would always get discouraged when minions died when I sorrow farmed with 30 or so minion. I say keep it the way it is.
For the AoE nerf I liked that. Like it was said earlier, anyone with half a brain moves out from under AoE why shouldn't monsters. In a way it made AoE have a new role. While those monsters are moving from under the AoE what are they doing? or not doing? They are dealing damage to you or casting spells. That is the way I look at it. When I had a my necros secondary profession as elementalist I brought lava font with me because it got the monsters to stop attacking me... and I was to lazy to move.
AoE has a use. Like I say in a lot of posts, I think Anet made the ritualist to bring a use back to AoE. And if you see cluttered areas like saltspray battles on the bridge is a perfect place for AoE because there is normally a lot of enemies in a small area to AoE, and warriors normally don't move from under it if their target is still there. Don't always think of using AoE as a offensive move, maybe sometimes you should think of using it as a defensive move instead.
Minion cap is fine, keep it.
In PvE same thing, it gives me something to work for. I would always get discouraged when minions died when I sorrow farmed with 30 or so minion. I say keep it the way it is.
For the AoE nerf I liked that. Like it was said earlier, anyone with half a brain moves out from under AoE why shouldn't monsters. In a way it made AoE have a new role. While those monsters are moving from under the AoE what are they doing? or not doing? They are dealing damage to you or casting spells. That is the way I look at it. When I had a my necros secondary profession as elementalist I brought lava font with me because it got the monsters to stop attacking me... and I was to lazy to move.
AoE has a use. Like I say in a lot of posts, I think Anet made the ritualist to bring a use back to AoE. And if you see cluttered areas like saltspray battles on the bridge is a perfect place for AoE because there is normally a lot of enemies in a small area to AoE, and warriors normally don't move from under it if their target is still there. Don't always think of using AoE as a offensive move, maybe sometimes you should think of using it as a defensive move instead.
Minion cap is fine, keep it.
Priest Of Sin
Well, at the beginning of the MM Nerf I would've agreed with the original poster. However, I just changed my tactics. For example:
BEFORE NERF: I was the unstoppable juggernaut, kill all, turn them into my undead slaves, but as soon as I died my team was SoL.
AFTER NERF: Now, I am a support class. It is no longer about the power of minions, but the DISTRACTION of minions. Ele bosses? They love to pound on my flesh golem. This makes it easier on the monks because they don't have to heal it. And when it dies, I simply raise another one.
It took some getting used to, but i'm just as useful now as I was then.
/notsigned
BEFORE NERF: I was the unstoppable juggernaut, kill all, turn them into my undead slaves, but as soon as I died my team was SoL.
AFTER NERF: Now, I am a support class. It is no longer about the power of minions, but the DISTRACTION of minions. Ele bosses? They love to pound on my flesh golem. This makes it easier on the monks because they don't have to heal it. And when it dies, I simply raise another one.
It took some getting used to, but i'm just as useful now as I was then.
/notsigned
lishi
dude MM before nerf on pve was overpowered.
how?
check thirsty river.
a MM can SOLO the mission.
he can make enough firepower and absorb enough damage to beat alone a mission who was made for 6...
and dont say to me a wammo can beat the mission as well.
the wammo solo use the trick to lure 2 group togher to fight. the MM way is just kill them all
how?
check thirsty river.
a MM can SOLO the mission.
he can make enough firepower and absorb enough damage to beat alone a mission who was made for 6...
and dont say to me a wammo can beat the mission as well.
the wammo solo use the trick to lure 2 group togher to fight. the MM way is just kill them all
Evilsod
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Originally Posted by Vilaptca
I'm guessing none of you played in the Alliance battles against a MM during the Faction preview events....
Seriously, want to see how powerful a MM without the cap really was... |
Hyper Cutter
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Originally Posted by Ristaron
Honestly, minions are easily destroyed by AoE, but instead of allowing people to realize this - you go and nerf them both beforehand,
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Tarun
/signed - trash it cause it screwed the game over. Either remove it altogether or limit it to PvP only.
Dark Suoon
no the limit is perfect as is, because in Alliance battles the mm would be way more powerful than any type of build ever, thats y they put the limit
Nana
Its more than alliance battle... At prewview it was messy and fun even mm where overpower. XD U can always try kill the master or use other tactic.I'm ok limit with pvp but why pve too?
freekedoutfish
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Originally Posted by Xx Monk Hunter Xx
OK, so this is a petition to get rid of a maximum number of minions that a necromancer can control without killing one in order to summon a new one.
(NOTE: this dosnt include increasing number of flesh golems u can control, only the non-elite minions) the reason: this will not really over-power the necromancer, because lets say u actually get up to 30 minions without having the first 10 or w\e deadd or dying by then, if u use blood of the master to keep ur 30 or so minions alive, either the skill itself will kill u, or a monster will kill you because you'd be down to like 80 hp or somthing. if people do not agree that the limit needs to be gotten rid of, maybe just an increase in the max? cause 10 minions kinda isnt enough for some places. |
But liking the idea.
The most simply reason being overpowerment and lag issues.
There are MMs out there who are very, very, very good at keeping their minions alive for long periods of time. The result being that if they could res an unlimited number of (non-elite)minions at one time, then you could end up with an imensely over-number army.
But the knock-on effect would be anywhere up to and over 30+ creatures on screen at onces. If you imagine all the MMs on GWs at one time controlling that many minions, it would cause alot of lag.
I love the idea though. I do think an increase in how many you can control would be good.
But from my experience, unless your a very good MM, its hard enough keeping 10 alive. Your minion management would start to get very complicated and taxing.
And then you have the clincher!!!
Its frustrating (whether your an MM or not) when you have 10 minions in a team, constantly blocking your path and getting the way.
Can you imagine having 30+ minions & 8 man team.
You wouldnt be able to move around, especially in small confined spaces like in Factions.
Maybe increase the max to 15 at the most.
OHHHH and..... if you die, your going to unleash 30+ minions on your 8 man team. Not a good thing. The monk would have to focus completely on you.
Emik
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
/notsigned
But liking the idea. The most simply reason being overpowerment and lag issues. There are MMs out there who are very, very, very good at keeping their minions alive for long periods of time. Can you imagine having 30+ minions & 8 man team. Maybe increase the max to 15 at the most. |
16 minions would do the trick for me.
Keeping 60 alive wasn't a problem before the Verata and limit nerfs and tbh everyone wanted a good MM in their party for Oro and FA farming.
The sole reason why it was nerfed was becoz of AB and no other.
Commenting another post:
Minions ARE good for something
they keep numbers up real easy and i prefer 2 lvl 13's over a lvl 18 any time just coz of the amount of DPS they can produce.
I used to bring fiends in my old before-nerf-era builds but i don't anymore.
Golem, Vamps and minions do a spelndid job.
Still: caplimit to 16 and bring back Verata's suckyfice
/signed in a way
legion_rat
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
Want to see how easily countered they are? The necro itself has counters for its own ****ing build! You could potentially wipe out every single minion in the army with 1 Ray Of Judgement, would they let us? No they nerfed the whole thing to stop people whining about it. At least make the Minion cap into 1 Minion each level on Death, giving you a max of 16 and making each point actually count for something. Maybe alter BotM to be 2% each minion. And of course bring back Veratis Sacrifice from the pit of uselessness, did they actually think before nerfing that skill or are they just braindead RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOwits trying to create a second Otughys Cry(?).
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/unsigned for the cap removal
/signed for the max of 16 mentioned above
Most of the people b-tching about MMs cap are powergamers anyway. Yes yes we are all ascended demigods. So a MM can create 20 or more minions. then what does the ranger get? Cause as a demigod he cant touch the MM with a legion of minions.
/signed for fixing verratas (it sucks now)
As far as the Ele AoE its not so bad you just have to learn to play better. If i started throwing rocks at you would you stand there and let me do it or would you move and try to kick my ass? The Ai thinks it should kick my ass too.
~the Rat who eats M&Ms~
Wtf Its A Monk
PVE - /signed
PVP - /notsigned
PVP - /notsigned
Blu_onyx
GOOD!, i can't stand twits who spawn that many minions, can't even find my way past them. No consideration for anyone else in the team, they just go of on a frenzy of self indulged Minion Spawning.
If you think having 234 Minions is impressing people think again. It's pissing them off!, They are.
A. In our god damn way!
B. You die, continiously..... and your stupid infestation of Minon's , you so mindlessly spawned, are now left to be dealt with by the rest of the team.
C. It's a really lame pastime, that does not supplement for strategic and effective team-play
D. You @($@ 700 Minon's are still howling and jumping all over the place in the middle of a crucial cut-scene or plot development.
If you think having 234 Minions is impressing people think again. It's pissing them off!, They are.
A. In our god damn way!
B. You die, continiously..... and your stupid infestation of Minon's , you so mindlessly spawned, are now left to be dealt with by the rest of the team.
C. It's a really lame pastime, that does not supplement for strategic and effective team-play
D. You @($@ 700 Minon's are still howling and jumping all over the place in the middle of a crucial cut-scene or plot development.
Emik
Correction but a 'GOOD' MM don't die. end of story.
I've succesfully finished Defend NKP with just me (MM) and an IW warrior before the limit nerf.
I've succesfully finished Defend NKP with just me (MM) and an IW warrior before the limit nerf.
Blu_onyx
You stalking me Emik :P.
your always poppin up.
your always poppin up.
Emik
Scary innit 
lishi
Why people keep say they nerfed it becouse of alliance battle?
the devs after the nerf said it was one of reason , on the nerf they considered also pve experience.
If you just think you will know having 30 minion is good like having a party of other profession.
see MM was overpowered(in pve) and they fixed it. you may say they should fix skill like verata sacrifice but that's all
the devs after the nerf said it was one of reason , on the nerf they considered also pve experience.
If you just think you will know having 30 minion is good like having a party of other profession.
see MM was overpowered(in pve) and they fixed it. you may say they should fix skill like verata sacrifice but that's all
LiamR
/signed for 1 minion per lv.
Malice Black
The limit is reasonable imo
Blu_onyx
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Emik
Scary innit
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Zakarr
10 minions are enough. Why ruin PvE again with overpowered minion masters? I can't believe why this game is so hard for someone. AoE skills are too powerful for dumb AI. Anet should change the way how AoE skills work if they wouldn't scatter enemies and then it would be unbalanced in PvP. Learn to snare + AoE or play something else like WoW for easy killings.
Esprit
/unsigned
If you can't make it through PvE missions and quests with 10 minions, what will more do? Every mission and quest can be done, with ease, without a Minion Master.
I played Alliance Battles during the Preview Event, before the minion cap, and the way a Minion Master dominated the field because of so many deaths, was horribly unbalanced. Even now, Minion Masters in Alliance Battles are still a force to be reckoned with if you aren't prepared.
Bottom line, 10 minions is plenty.
If you can't make it through PvE missions and quests with 10 minions, what will more do? Every mission and quest can be done, with ease, without a Minion Master.
I played Alliance Battles during the Preview Event, before the minion cap, and the way a Minion Master dominated the field because of so many deaths, was horribly unbalanced. Even now, Minion Masters in Alliance Battles are still a force to be reckoned with if you aren't prepared.
Bottom line, 10 minions is plenty.
lyra_song
ok...whos been using
"Raise the dead thread horror" ?
"Raise the dead thread horror" ?
Solar_Takfar
The limit is fine as is. MMs are already good (better in PvE than PvP, but go compare to Fire elementalists, for instance), and they're getting new, good skills in NF, too.