Problem: Playable roles in certain areas becoming limited. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Lordhelmos

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Sentients of Shadow (noir)

Me/E

22 Jul 2006 at 09:01 - 1

I don't know what the community thinks about this, but im starting to see the build restrictions for entering parties at certains areas in the game becoming extremely limited. For example, I was at sorrows furnace trying to to quests as an elementalist and couldn't find anyone because the place was flooded with 5 man oro teams looking for bonders, necros, and tanks to run green farms. It's disturbing to see alot of areas in the game turning out like this. Tombs of the Primevil Kings is especially bad with BP rangers.

I am well aware that because of the nature of the game and people eventually discovering efficient builds for clearing certains areas, avoiding this is impossible. Lately I've been opening my world map and having a hard time finding a place to go or something to do because im not playing a "specific" build that is in high demand for the area.

Just being forced to run a specific setup to mechanically handle a certain run or area is whats is really making things monotonous. It sucks to go into Warcamp and be pretty much useless to the party community for not being an SS necro or bonder.

This is a major issue in the game and I believe turns alot of people off from really getting into guildwars unless you become a hardcore pvper, and even that requires specific setups (I.E. bloodspike, IWAY).

Asking for a solution to this problem would be like saying I wanted gravity to be reversed. But I just wanted to point this out because I'm sure alot of people are feeling the same way about things.

I still remember in presearing when things were fresh there werent alot of problems like this. Presear was one of the funnest areas of the game. Later the fun factor begins to die out in PvE when you find out that out of the 600 or so skills you have, only about 20 of them are really worth anything. With the rampart farming and such it seems like no one will accept you in a party unless you fulfulll the cookie cutter role that they need you to. This kind of community makes doing quests and missions seem more like a chore rather than being any fun.

I guess thats what being a team player is all about right?

I just wanted some feedback on this so see what you all thought about this.

Clord

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Finland

Victory Via Valour

22 Jul 2006 at 09:07 - 2

I usually just join party and mission start (European English District).

Shadow of Light

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Australia

Mo/

22 Jul 2006 at 09:08 - 3

I will admit it can be rather annoying to play a monk, and suddenly be everyone's best friend when it comes to missions etc... then change to mesmer, and be 'sought after' by practically nothing. However, it's only to be expected, I think. And there's nothing stopping you (or me) from forming your own party however we wish.

Lordhelmos

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Sentients of Shadow (noir)

Me/E

22 Jul 2006 at 09:09 - 4

yeah I play international always now as well, places like tombs and FoW/UW in the american district are just BAD.

Lordhelmos

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Sentients of Shadow (noir)

Me/E

22 Jul 2006 at 09:12 - 5

That is true, im just trying to point out what I believe to be some community stagnation. In places like Sorrows, people just run the same Oro groups over and over. No one will do the missions... and with tombs is the same group build everytime. These are the two areas that are giving me problems, you just can't help but to feel "Locked Out" of these places.

Henchies Ftw.

Saphatorael

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

22 Jul 2006 at 09:12 - 6

I miss the days of pre-searing too, when everybody was so crappy at the game... but then again, some people still are after 12 months of play, thinking that if they play a cookie cutter build, they can crush anything...

And indeed, some things look to me as chores, but if you want to gain fame/rank, you'll need to 'farm' it... some people see farming as something boring, some like doing it, some want to do it to achieve their goal (FoW armor, a new rank emote)... I haven't gone to HA for over 2 months now (am rank 4), but all i keep hearing from guildies is that everybody plays the same damn build... i only go nowadays to play a different build, and to my regret, it's not always as effective as the cookie cutter builds...

Orinn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Defiant Dragons

22 Jul 2006 at 09:30 - 7

Realizing this "locked out" mentality is what finally made me delete my first character, a mesmer I finished the game with. I liked the character, but I realized that unless I henchied, I wasn't going to see TPK, Sorrow's Furnace (the really bad one), UW, whatever. I get annoyed at times not being able to find a group with my mains, so then i log on my monk for a while. At least I know then that groups won't kick me just because I'm an assassin (had that happen) or because I was playing R/Rt with spirits instead of a pet (that one too).

xuemin

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

E/Mo

22 Jul 2006 at 09:41 - 8

i know the feeling, my first char was my ele and she's only ever touched SF once because before eles were kicked off that list of wanted SF-farmers list, all they wanted were echo/renewal nukers which i didn't want to do. but it also seems that echo/renewal nukers are the only acceptable build for eles now so my ele is pretty much out of action T_T

i'm also finding it hard to experiment with my necro since pretty much everyone demands me to be MM/SS/BiP.

the only char i have no problems with is my monk build-wise, as long as i make an obvious effort to keep people alive they don't really care what build i run. but playing the same char over and over is boring.

Amity and Truth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

W/N

22 Jul 2006 at 09:54 - 9

It has long been a real problem in Guildwars. It is not really some kind of balance issue, but it is a problem of mentality and flavor. The class discrimination is omnipresent and sometimes even happening in a guild that is else a real good one. You just can't prevent to be suffering from it unless you're having one of those ultra rare good guilds or go henchie. The first is very unlikely as there are maybe 5 or 6 good guilds out there while the rest is simply tripping over egos sooner or later. And the second option gets boring really fast.

If it were limited to a few areas, one could deal with it, but it is as i said, omnipresent. Everywhere. UW and FOW are quite bad, the SF Build is just hammered into stone. No way anyone is gonna change that anytime soon. Missions are a problem "we need xx more warriors, and an echo nuker!". But from my experience, where this behavior gets REALLY REALLY bad is in the elitemissions.
For some reason the "Elite" in the "Elitemission" attracts total jerks and downright morons in large numbers. Prepare to get flamed to death if you want to go without boredom trappers. And if you tell your team somehow that the ritualist makes the whole Elitemission too easy, they'll flame you to death and insist that a Ritualist is making it impossible to complete the Mission. Uh huh. And uh, never ever think about asking the Ranger to not drop Quickening Zephyr in the middle of a battle. etc etc. And well, whereas in SF you simply get a kick out of the team, in the elitemissions you'll be flamed to death and your reputation will be smashed and stomped into the ground by public accusations and namecalling.
Next time you log in it is like "lol the noob ritualist, every team be adviced, utter noob, don't take him!"

isamu kurosawa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

United Kingdom

Me/

22 Jul 2006 at 10:17 - 10

Im hoping nightfall has area's with foes resistant to certain builds, such as Fire dmg immunity and dark dmg heals, whereas smiting, water, chaos dmg hit (in some cases for double).

Basically anything to make the underused attributes/Proffessions Shine and cookie cutter impossible.

You could even have lots of stance breaking for the "tanks"

maybe then the warriors will learn to use the weapon they hold.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

22 Jul 2006 at 10:20 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

I don't know what the community thinks about this, but im starting to see the build restrictions for entering parties at certains areas in the game becoming extremely limited. ---
I am well aware that because of the nature of the game and people eventually discovering efficient builds for clearing certains areas, avoiding this is impossible.

I agree that it's a big problem (yesterday I failed finding a PUG for Raisu Palace for either my mesmer or my ranger) but the solution is simple: randomize placement and composition and abilities of mobs.
Specialized builds become dominant because people know exactly what to expect, and where, when entering.

I honestly don't see why ANet doesn't already randomize placement+composition+abilities of mobs. It's not like it's hard to think of, or hard to do. Possibly they're afraid to make some areas too hard for newbs?

The core problem, though, is that the PvE metagame now can be summed up as "whoever has most stuff wins".
This is entirely the playerbase fault, not ANets - people have simply decided that Guildwars, a game where loot actually matters hardly at all wrt gameplay, is entirely and completely about loot.

0mar

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

22 Jul 2006 at 10:27 - 12

It's the fault of PvE. It's static, abusable and wholly optimized now.

Andy_M

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Worthing, UK

(Don't fear) The Beaver

22 Jul 2006 at 11:06 - 13

And getting a pug together in the crystal desert is still as much fun as always if you are a ranger....Mind you, what with all those bots in Elona, ect.

Talon one

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

ice

W/

22 Jul 2006 at 11:17 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0mar

It's the fault of PvE. It's static, abusable and wholly optimized now.

true.
there have been some efforts to make it slightly less abusable (aoe nerf, minion master nerf, book trick fix, tank nerf). but i think it would be fun if the maps were less static, like a more random group composition/placement and maybe giving the monsters an extra random skill.

the static pve environment will always lead to highly optimized cookie cutter builds that are in high demand. if you want to play the game properly, you have to either join random pugs, start your own group or play with friends and guildies.

felinette

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Girl Power [GP]

Me/

22 Jul 2006 at 11:21 - 15

It would also be nice if there was more game support for forming parties. There are lots of players (like just about everyone on this thread) who would be willing to go out with a "non-standard" party, but how to find these people? In many towns, everyone is standing around "LFG", and there are clearly enough people LFGing to form a group, but nobody wants to take the initiative and lead so no group is formed. If there was a way to scan a list of people looking, and their levels and professions, a party could be formed quickly. And make the henchies a more viable option because when Nightfall comes out, they'll probably be the only ones you can group with in Prophecies and Factions.

Quote:

randomize placement and composition and abilities of mobs.
Specialized builds become dominant because people know exactly what to expect, and where, when entering.

Good idea. It would also increase replayability.

Another idea someone had was to somehow add the ability to join a party the game puts together. For example, when you enter a mission town, you could press a "Join Party" button, and as soon as enough people have done that, you enter the mission area. Yes, it means you might end up with no monks, but it could be very interesting and fun.

Raxxman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

TEOC

W/N

22 Jul 2006 at 11:26 - 16

other problem is drops though.

I've been going for my protector title and playing the actual missions.

Last 4 missions (and bonus) I haven't recieved a single gold item in drops, or even a purple (got some purple runes, but we all know they're worthless)

With utterly crud drops like that you can understand why people will run farming builds, it's the only way to get anything decent that's not collectors at all.

*edit* I would love randomisation.

zakaria

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

22 Jul 2006 at 11:29 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

Im hoping nightfall has area's with foes resistant to certain builds, such as Fire dmg immunity and dark dmg heals, whereas smiting, water, chaos dmg hit (in some cases for double).

You are completly shutting down cookie cutter builds to creat other builds that will be after time the new cookie cutter builds..you didn't solve anything, think of another.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

honestly don't see why ANet doesn't already randomize

Nice but in matter of fact PvEers abandon PvP coz it is very competitve they can't compete the meta game there..this why they have their own static world.Imagine that you have to make your team build in half hour or more incase of you encountered mobs of build X or build Y..then you lose the mission coz you discover that all foes in mission are in build Z. It's nice idea for someone has no proplem with time to keep trying over and over if he lost but most of us doesn't. It can be good idea for elite missions for CH 4 or 5 but not all the theme of missions.

Mr_T_bot

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2006

22 Jul 2006 at 11:42 - 18

Honestly, Barrage/Pet is the only consistently workable Tombs model I ever played in. That is as a monk so I had no shortage of groups to check out when Tombs opened.

The truth itself

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Denmark

First Degree

Mo/

22 Jul 2006 at 11:51 - 19

This is a problem of game balance, some builds are too good compared to others in some areas, and i don't see anything else to do, than to buff a lot of skills, to open up the skill bars a bit.

isamu kurosawa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

United Kingdom

Me/

22 Jul 2006 at 11:58 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakaria

You are completly shutting down cookie cutter builds to creat other builds that will be after time the new cookie cutter builds..you didn't solve anything, think of another.

I dont mean every area. Cookie cutter builds are used in EVERY area now, making a player have to switch builds to suit the area (as the game should have been) combined with a little randomisation as stated, would be realy helpful in solving the problem.

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

22 Jul 2006 at 12:15 - 21

I accept everything but assassins because there is about 500% more chance of error on assassins than any other class (maybe warrior aggro is bad but assassin aggro is worse).

ChaoticCoyote

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Florida, USA

Imperial Order of the Iguana [IGGY]

R/

22 Jul 2006 at 13:36 - 22

Start your own group.

I play a Mesmer, a smiting monk, and a non-cookie cutter Ranger (with pet). You want abuse? Try getting into a group as a smiting monk, even in Kryta, where the build is very effective.

Spamming "LFG" is just a form of begging.

I've started taking pick-up groups, especially in the beginning areas, taking whoever wants to join, and hoping to train people to have open minds. I've won the hardest missions with the oddest groups, and am having fun doing it.

Won Borlis Pass last night with three mid-level necros (one of them mine), a ranger, and two elementalists.

Behavior in the game will only change when players start revolting against the cookie-cutter. It's like that in real-life, too.

ChaoticCoyote

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Florida, USA

Imperial Order of the Iguana [IGGY]

R/

22 Jul 2006 at 13:39 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

I accept everything but assassins because there is about 500% more chance of error on assassins than any other class (maybe warrior aggro is bad but assassin aggro is worse).

How will Assassins learn to play better if no one plays with them?

I've played with soem excellent assassins. Admitedly, they're few and far between, but they do exist.

During the Dragon festival, we won the Seijung Harbor "grasp mission" with an Assassin, a Ritualist, an Elementalist, and a Ranger. The Assassin died a lot, but he also got much better as we progressed.

Open minds make the game better.

CagedinSanity

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Away from you.

W/

22 Jul 2006 at 13:44 - 24

Dang, I'm one of those you envy. The only two characters I have (sharig an account) is a tank and a monk. I'm sought after by everyone. Except Dragon's lair mission because nine out of ten people there were warriors.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

22 Jul 2006 at 13:52 - 25

When I monk while farming, I will accept any sort of farming build as long as it's consistant, or at least seems consistant. I feel the raw end of the Assassin hate myself, but when it comes to 4-5 man farming parties (cutting things down to the bare minimums to get out the maximum), classes like an Assassin or Mesmer are pretty useless.

It's not a nice thing to say, but it's a fact.

Angelica

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Aussie land

Me/E

22 Jul 2006 at 14:00 - 26

Sigh!
I just wasted more than two hours trying to find people to play the game, I mean doing quests and missions, even most of the players on my guild were busy doing other things. Tried whith henchies more than once and I did not make it.
I decided to log off not amused and dissapointed also because this is happening very often especially in these last two weeks.

This should be a cooperative game which is not. I'm starting to get bored and finding the game to hard to go on by myself. I think that very soon I'll be leaving GW for good I'm not haveing fun anymore.

I can see other people are sharing my feeling too, where are they when I play tho?

Finished my rant, sorry about that.

Morrandir Gurthring

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

Wandering Oracles of Time

Rt/N

22 Jul 2006 at 15:04 - 27

Personally, when I do get a group together, all I really require is that we've got some healing in there. Other than that, anything goes.

Then again, I usually go with hench groups, because PuGs make me fear for humanity's future.

lg5000

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Australia

22 Jul 2006 at 15:05 - 28

To the OP... it's been months since Sorrows was playable. I gave up when the majority of people were looking for farming groups not the quests.

Angelica, we're around.. normally with henchies or in some weird pug. Henchies are without doubt, my best friends

My main is a mesmer who started in Tyria when mesmers were frowned upon. Btw, what profession is it that you're playing and having problems getting into groups with?

WasAGuest

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

22 Jul 2006 at 15:08 - 29

My opinion on this *readies fire hoses* is simply PvP balance has started to hurt the PvE game.
How do I say this? Well, PvE is vs the AI and in the upper levels or end game, the mobs are higher level then the players, their spells and attacks are over the top in terms of effect and damage, they have more health and so on. PvP balances for player skills and health with is static (adjust for runes and mods).
Because the AI is adjusted for power and numbers against the players skill, it's overwhelming on a "balanced" term without gimicks.
For example, B/P a great gimick build that works in Tombs wonderfully. 55 dual UW works wonderfully. Take a real group, balanced and full to either of these places and it's much more difficult. Why? Because the balanced skills are balanced for playing against other players and not against superior level and over powered foes.
Now, since Anet can obviously set skills and abilities to differ in PvE and PvP (see the current pets having DP in PvP only) they should start doing that 100% of the time. Don't tell me it can't be done; a PvE ranger takes his/her pet into PvP and the pet suddenly has DP when it dies. Once he/she returns to PvE the pet has no DP when it dies. So it's a dynamic change.
Making the game mechanics different for each via skills and weapons then add in the idea for randomly composed mobs with various skills would create some PvE balance.

As I said, it's what I see and is my opinion. *Runs from the flameboys*

Hyper Cutter

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Knights of the White Eye [HINA]

22 Jul 2006 at 16:05 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

Im hoping nightfall has area's with foes resistant to certain builds, such as Fire dmg immunity and dark dmg heals, whereas smiting, water, chaos dmg hit (in some cases for double).

Basically anything to make the underused attributes/Proffessions Shine and cookie cutter impossible.

You could even have lots of stance breaking for the "tanks"

maybe then the warriors will learn to use the weapon they hold.

Seconded.

GloryFox

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Good ol' USA, where everyone else wants to be

Now Plays World of Warcraft on Whisperwind

22 Jul 2006 at 16:25 - 31

You are right about certain builds only getting the "look" This is an old argument from the beginning of GW. I also find it interesting that some missions are so hard that only some extream team builds can do them (EoE groups for Warrens). I also find it interesting that certain skills from prophacies are needed to do Urgoz Warren with any chance at succsess.

For example: I play a Restoration Ritualist and a fairly good one. I also have a Monk with about 1.8 mil exp points. In some areas a Restoration Ritualist would be more practical than a Monk. However finding a Group to take me in for Elite missions (ToPK SF Deep Warrens) Is nigh impossible. The Elite missions should be geared such that any profession should be able to join in without fear of rejection. In otherwords you should be able to play a SIN or something else and have a decent chance of survival.

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

22 Jul 2006 at 16:43 - 32

Hm, I'm pretty sure someone is going to attack me for this, but I'd really appreciate logical responses. I'd merely like to know why, exactly, people should take other people whom they do not want to.

Example:
Back in the day of SF farming, two of my guildies and I had a great build for gear tanking. To complete our team, we knew all we needed was a minion master and a fire nuker. Why should we have taken anyone else? It was fast enough for us, and we had an almost 100% success rate. (Except for those times when "nobody zoned" but we magically appeared outside...) Technically, we did have 3 more open spots, but since we were farming, we did not want to share the chance of getting greens any more than necessary. Also, we almost constantly used scrolls so as to increase the XP we got even further. This, combined with the reward from doing the Orozar Highstone quest, generally added up to over 12,000xp per trip. I can understand the frustration of not being able to get into groups, since I like to play an earth elementalist and some weird necro builds. However, I see two possible reactions to this problem.
1) Complain about it.
2) Form your own group so you can get whoever you want in it.
I'm sure you can guess which option I choose. I also agree that forming and dealing with your own PuG isn't all that easy at first, but eventually you learn how to deal with people. The most important thing is to BE FRIENDLY/POLITE. If you think, after a short private conversation with someone, that they don't know what they're doing, then a simple "no thanks" works most of the time.

grikdog

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

22 Jul 2006 at 17:31 - 33

There are lots of good points here.

This problem is where being in a guild really does matter. Then you can do missions and just have fun with a group of people who you know and are not necessarily worried about mounting their idea of "perfect" team.

I've bumped into many assasins lately who are having trouble getting groups.

Curse You

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

South Pole

The Magus Order

N/Mo

22 Jul 2006 at 18:15 - 34

I never have trouble getting a group for my assassin in RA

*flame shield activated*

I think the problem with the Elite Missions is that they are just that, elite, hard, not easy. So to do them there are certain skills and builds that make it possible. Sure this means no variety, but if only a certain number of things work, it's best to stay to those things.

Basically, if you want to play in one of the exclusive areas (SF, RoTotPK, elite missions), you have to go with what works best. You don't HAVE to go to any of these areas, you choose to and so must be willing to deal with what's there.

Also, don't complain that your only character is useless. Go make another character, get them through the campaign, and then use them. I have 5 characters, and I know that they are only good for certain things.

Retribution X

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Check behind you again.

N/

22 Jul 2006 at 21:08 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

I never have trouble getting a group for my assassin in RA

Ditto. my group usually doesn't complain about my sin when we are playing...

Ira Blinks

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

22 Jul 2006 at 21:18 - 36

i wish this happen to trappers in Urgoz...

Talon one

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

ice

W/

22 Jul 2006 at 21:22 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

My opinion on this *readies fire hoses* is simply PvP balance has started to hurt the PvE game.
Because the AI is adjusted for power and numbers against the players skill, it's overwhelming on a "balanced" term without gimicks.

it is true, in a way. but i think that the brain of the average experienced player more than makes up for the lack of pure firepower. yes, gimmick builds can be much more effective than balanced builds.
but playing in a balanced party against overwhelming odds happens to be the most fun way to play, unless you just want to farm. if the whole team has sort of an idea of what they are doing, the casters are kiting, everyone is watching their aggro, then even elite missions arent too much of a problem.

and the good thing is that each class is wanted and needed, as long as the player knows what he is doing. and i think its in the best interest of the game to make gimmick builds less effective and 'force' players to learn what skills really matter, other than googling the best gimmickbuild.

felinette

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Girl Power [GP]

Me/

22 Jul 2006 at 23:14 - 38

Earlier on, I was at Minister Cho's estate, and there was a group "looking for an MM". I mean, it's really getting ridiculous when you think you need an MM for Minister Cho's estate. Oy vey.

But this is the problem. People are so convinced that only certain builds and groups work that we have absolutely freaking ridiculous stuff like a group insisting on an MM for a mission my cat could do. (though she may not get masters...)

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

23 Jul 2006 at 00:22 - 39

Ummm! Assassin have no problem getting into group in Fort Aspenwood! And, I've gotten some compliments from players there, and a whole big stack of amber!

In general, this problem is going to remain, though. I quit going to UW and FoW for this very reason, and yeah I've got a monk and a warrior, but I just don't want to do it somebody else's way.

Samuel Dravis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/Me

23 Jul 2006 at 00:55 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

Start your own group.

I play a Mesmer, a smiting monk, and a non-cookie cutter Ranger (with pet). You want abuse? Try getting into a group as a smiting monk, even in Kryta, where the build is very effective.

Spamming "LFG" is just a form of begging.

I've started taking pick-up groups, especially in the beginning areas, taking whoever wants to join, and hoping to train people to have open minds. I've won the hardest missions with the oddest groups, and am having fun doing it.

I take a smite monk routinely in fissure... am I strange?