ncsoft told me to post this here

*** This post is a concern I sent to ncsoft about Guild Wars, their response was that rather than speak to them directly, I post this on your fansite. ***
*** I apologise to the fansite users who have to put up with my futile attempt to be heard. Thank you for your understanding. ***

Please, I am asking you ro reconsider what you are turning Guild Wars into. I understand changes in armor, weapons and such to ensure gameplay balance. What I don't understand are the changes in gameplay itself.

Why are you blocking farming when everything (armor especially) is so expensive? I guess I won't by dying my armor black any time soon.

And now I hear runs will soon be blocked?! This is a mmorpg, it's a GOOD thing that people are finding and creating professions for themselves. This is just evidence that your mmo is becoming a thriving community of people.

There is a small number of very vocal people making you think everybody hates these things, but it's just not so. The majority of us love what Guild Wars is, and hate what it's becoming! Don't let the few, angry voices make you turn your game into a single player, mission based adventure - with chat.

Give us the freedom to make this world as great as you envisioned it in the beginning! We won't let you down!

Bill
aka
Jada Alia Fyre (W/E lvl 20)
Slytheran N Fyre (E/N lvl 12)
Brandy Jada Fyre (A/Ri lvl 15)
Summer Glau Fyre (R/Me lvl 09)

They aren't 'blocking farming'. Farm all you want just rotate around and don't repeatedly do the same few creatures right outside a town.

Factions eliminated much of the runable areas that are so popular in Prophecies and I don't care about running but I do like the ability to explore the areas to my heart's content and only do missions when I choose to rather than the way it is (all the locked gates) in Factions. But I must have missed whatever you are refering to where they are going to make existing areas unrunable? There are running skills so I doubt ANet is against all runners.

Stick in more slow spells on monsters? Iono o.o

[QUOTE=mrvrod]



they are not blocking farming but are trying to stop bots

repeat after me

this is not an MMORPG

ANET from the owners down to customer relations have stated GW is NOT an MMORPG

the only people who have called it an MMORPG are game magazines/online game sites who , being unable to reach their readership without putting something into a familiar cubbyhole say it is an MMORPG

By blocking running, I am referring to characters who earn a living (in GW not rl) by charging other characters a fee to 'run' them to other, desirable, areas. The 'runner' literally runs by monsters and gets the party to the agreed upon location. Payment is in installments along the way so nobody gets scammed (usually). Runners who ask for payment up-front are NOT runners, they are scammers and will disappear as soon as they get a full party of dupes.

Some people may believe that each person should make it to these areas on their own. Some may even look upon it as cheating. If you do, then don't pay someone to run you somewhere.

This form of 'running' is already blocked in factions. I don't know how they distinguish a party of paying characters from a party of non-paying, non-combative characters going somewhere, but they apparently can.

I just don't think our game-related actions should be limited in such a way, as it is a personal decision on how you want your character to progress. That is the main allure of an mmo, the freedom to progress in your own way!

If some in game activity becomes a major headache to all, that activity will be taboo, and all who perform said activity will be outcast, and the community will police itself.

At least that is how I think it should be.

[QUOTE=Loviatar]Massively Multiplayer (over 2,000,000 units sold!) Online (duh!) Role Playing Game! Well it sure isn't a shooter!

Stop trying to be elite. There's nothing wrong with being in the same category as Everquest and World of Warcraft. And please, address the issues rather than peripheral minutae.

[QUOTE=mrvrod] this is not peripheral as the owners of Anet have stated that this is a new alternative to the traditional MMORPG grindfest and have stated it is not an MMORPG.

there is nothing elite about a simple statement of fact and wow is what we are trying to avoid not immitate.

to each their own but go to where they have what you want

This is a ccorpg meaning a cooperative competive online role playing game.they don't mind running but don't like solo farming to much.

Did they nerf your favourite farming spot? Find a new one.
Did they stop people from earning cash by running others? Find another way to earn cash.
You said it yourself, players have to adapt to the way the game is changed.

Oh, and Anet calls it a competitive online rpg if I'm not mistaken, not an mmorpg.

This IS peripheral, and completely unimportant to the issues I am trying to discuss. Call the mmo issue a disagreement in definition. From this point forward, I will only respond to post that are on topic.

When you think about it, the way people were farming, the way they are running... it's all exploits of the game. If some one found a glitch to unlock the whole map without doing anything, they would get rid of it. This is sort of the same idea. When people used to farm, they used to use 55 monks and just kill the same group of monsters over and over, it was just a "trick" for easy items and money. It made the monk professions particularly better for gaining wealth than other professions, so they got rid of the 55 monk's advantages. Now, if they want to get rid of running it's because the warrior (including R/W and other combos) is overall the best runner, and it makes their profession significantly better. Also, the run skills were most likely intended for fleeing a fight more then to run from one area to another without fighting anything. So basically what I'm saying is, thought running and farming was convienent, it kind of cheapens the game. I'm sure many of us of played Online RPGs where the game is great but since everyone has figured out the best way to do everything, no one does anything new.

That's what I think about their nerfing and stuff, although I wish they would bring back nuking in general, without it the elementalist just isn't the same.

No, they nerfed farming everywhere for everyone! Read some of the other threads on this forum, I did.

And then they put a stop to that, until the only gold you can get is from mission kills and mission rewards.

What I said was undesirable actions to the majority will be community policed, not parental controlled as they are now. I'm 40 years old, I don't need ncsoft playing daddy.

I'm pretty sure the reason Arena Net is nerfing so many farming spots is to get rid of ways for bots to get money and, by doing so, discourage farming, although, unfortunatly, this is also making it hard for us players to find ways of making money...

well. i don't see why people have any copmlaints about running or farming. this isn't like say...wow where you actually have a money-making profession on top of your chosen class. the only way to make money in this game is to farm in one way or another. if they wanted to eliminate solo farming, they should make the payoff for challenge missions...oh i don't know...remotely worth-while. farming is something anyone can do (not just monk primaries and warriors) and it's something most people do. i'm not sure if the anti-farming code was intended to "nerf" bots or all farming.

...and so far i'll take a rt/mo 55 over a mo/w anyday. way easier and less thought-consuming.

mrvrod
don't bother... they send you here on purpose, so you get flamed to death by the loyal @ss-lickers, rather than working on actual problems.
They do what they want to do, which is putting more content ingame to sell it again and again. Upseting existing customers is the least of thier conserns.

Em, i dont think how you play the game is defined by your age, is controlled by your parents or anything like that. Their not policing anything lewd or offensive, but balancing out the game. If you actually stopped complaining and go tback into it, modifief your playing habits, i dont know, maybe you'll find the nerf to be a buff. If one profession has an unfair advantage over another, in respects of item drops, PvPing etc. I expect Anet to balance the game. i also expect those people who were playing the 'nerfed' professions to say 'Well that was fun, but now they've forced me to try a different style of play, i will' not 'AHHHHHH OMG those Haxz)rzzzz has n3rfed us, I'm quitting Guild Wras, hope your Happy A-Sux!!!1!11!!'. Adapt.

I dont think they should get rid of running, it isnt an exploit it hightens a persons enjoyment of the game, its fun. I dont think they should get rid of farming, it's not an exploit, it hightens peoples enjoyment of the game, it's fun. i think they should ge t rid of bots, is not fun. i think they should continue to balance the game, to make it fair for everyone.

Number of sales doesn't determine whether or not its a MMO. Starcraft has sold millions of copies worldwise and isnt a FPS, but would anyone call it a MMO?

Likewise, Guild Wars isnt an MMO because its PvP based. ANET puts the concentration on the PvP aspect of the game and everytime you see skills or gameplay change its usually due to PvP. Because it so massively towers over PvE, Guild wars is a CORPG.

Everquest, WoW, and other games like it strive to add more in game content and features to make the games more fun to play and to make the experience more fun. Guild wars rarely adds anything to PvE to do this and the structure of the game in PvE is rigid with bland storylines. If all you wanted in Guild Wars was a MMORPG then you would be better off playing a MUD.

going on side track of main issue....

GW is half MMORPG.
MMORPG = Massively Multiplayer Online Role playing Game
Since GW is massively multiplayer game that is plaied online, and is a rpg, it is true. (However, you can also play most of the PvE part of the game by your self)

However, GW is not a "Traditional" MMORPG
It is trying not to follow the same step as that of WoW, Ultimate, RS, Lineage, and many other.

My thought exactly.

how can it be half MMORPG? whats the other half then?

GW is an MMORPG, and as you just stated, not the traditional type. Just because it doesn't follow the same structure as WoW etc etc doesn't change the fact that it's an MMORPG.

And I don't get your point about "(However, you can also play most of the PvE part of the game by your self)"
This is true for a vast majority of MMORPG's.


they stated that its not your traditional MMORPG, get your facts right... if you truely don't believe its an MMORPG, then explain what is it is...

Taken from wikipedia:
Though MMORPGs have evolved considerably, many of them share various characteristics.

• Traditional Dungeons & Dragons style gameplay, including quests, monsters, and loot.
• A system for character development, usually involving levels and experience points.
• An economy, based on trading of items (such as weapons and armor) and a regular currency.
• Guilds or clans, which are organizations of players, whether or not the game actively supports them.
• Game Moderators (or Game Masters, frequently abbreviated to GM), sometimes paid individuals in charge of supervising the world.

Explain to me in this list, which is not associated with GW?

Honestly, I don't think running is a bad thing, in and of itself. The only thing that ever annoyed me about running was when I made a new character, went into the lvl 10 arena at Ascalon, and was murdered by armor 60 characters wielding elite skills.

I found this to be at least partly fixed by the update that causes characters to gain significant amounts of experience when using Capture Signets, and the fact that characters in Tyria could potentially go to Kaineng and buy armor 60 equipment (or whatever, for non-casters).

Running itself isn't bad. Honestly, I seriously LIKED that I could skip so much of Guild Wars; the first time I made a character, I played through the story, and the game, and enjoyed the full experience. The second, I did it again, and appreciated the different perspective.

The third was becoming and exersize in redundancy; I started finding new ways to go faster, cutting out the long, out of the way missions. The fourth.... I was refining the process.

By the time I made my eighth role playing character (yes, I remade some characters because I didn't like them, or wanted to try new things, or whatever), I had it down to and art, and ascended at level 14. I ran myself from Hot Springs to Temple of the Ages to Sanctum Cay, ran myself around the desert, and ascended at level 14. I was the only level 19 character waiting to enter Glint's Lair when I got there, and I was happy. I rushed myself and succeeded.

I hated Factions; the first time, the missions were kinda fun, but I wasn't that interested in them. And now I have six RPG characters, doing the missions is downright tedious. The only real end game content was Fort Apsenwood and Jade Quarrey, which never goes. I like those missions, but it is tedious to have to get there with everyone, six times; why are there 10 missions before you finally get to what I thought the whole focus of the game was (i.e. the conflict between the Luxons and Kurzicks)?


The point of Guild Wars was, as I understood it, that it was an RPG that didn't make you waste time to get to the good stuff. Lately, that's all Guild Wars has become; you can't skip missions, you can't explore as you go (the door is locked, come back later), and it's frustrating and annoying and boring.


As for farming.... it seems that only Guild Wars approved farming (Faction Farming) is allowed. And you aren't supposed to make money doing that.

[QUOTE] you can quote wiki all day.

i will quote anet

GW is a CORPG, as per the description from any an all Anet affiliates. What others call it is their own recognition.

Everyone online RPG isn't an MMO, being online with others is just an Online RPG. Just as every RPG isn't online, it is just an RPG. Making the broad assumption that any online RPG with cooperative gameplay is MMO is a lack of dicernment, not the actual definition.

GW is the next generation of Cooperative/Competative Online RPG, it is closer to Diablo II than WoW. There are towns players can meet in which allow people to interact with "massive" amounts of players, but you do not actualy engage in combat activities in those areas, they are just trading and gather areas, which is really just a visual step up from finding party members or bartering goods in a channel. The actual combat of the game is split into instances, which are not effected by "massive" amounts of people, which is the primary distinction in an MMO.

In an MMO, hundreds of players can enter locations and interact with eachother throughout the game.

Rebirther noted a list of qualities for "MMO"s which is totaly ignorant. Traditional D&D gameplay is in most RPGs, as well as character development, and even an econimy with trading elements, those can be found in solo RPGs as well, and they arn't MMOs. Game moderators and clans can be found most online games, including shooting, strategy and just about all of them, that is a quality of online gaming in general.

Thanks for pointing out the broad and shared elements of many RPGs and Online games in general, none of those are the defining point in what makes an MMO, just like having horns and cloven hooves doesn't make a goat the same thing as a deer even though they both have simular origins and traits. Anyone with higher perception can tell that they are different, and anyone who thinks they are the same is too blind to see the difference, including all those steriotyping game reviewers. Popular ignorance isn't truth, and GW isn't an MMO.

P.S. Why isn't this crap closed yet?

I am a bit shy in calling GW a full MMORPG, thought the defination holds true. The reason is that you could (and I am sure many have done so), play thought the whole Story PvE part of game by your self, with no other human contact what so ever. There are not that much necessary need to interact with other human player, unlike most other MMORPG out there, which in one way or another (in trade for force you to party) try to make you have contact with other human player. You could almost play the whole game with no internect connection (should the dev change the code to allow so, I mean)

Therefore, I call it a half.... mostly because of the Multiplayer part.

I am glad to see some really intelligent posts on both sides of the argument I have with ncsoft. I do believe ncsoft sent me to the fansite forums so they could easily ignore me, but maybe I'm wrong, and these discussions might help change some things.

But, for the majority of the posts, if you want to argue mmo, cco, or any freaking o, please take it into another thread in case they do read this. I don't dispute any of your valid arguments as to why you feel you're right and I'm wrong. They're just not relevant to the topic.

If I am in the minority of people who hate that GW has nerfed farming and is in the process of nerfing runs then so be it. But that is the discussion I was trying to have, not what type of game GW is. It's a game I like, that's enough for me.

As far as the changes to characters that a few of you have pointed out were needed. If you look at my original post again, you will see that I understand changes to balance the game have to be made from time to time, and I have no problem with that.

I have personally helped other players with getting to an area, buying that last piece of armor, or just giving advice so they don't get scammed, as I'm sure many of you have. So why, when we police ourselves so well, is ncsoft restricting activities that are not harmful or distructive to anyone elses gameplay?

i HATE the fact that if i want the 15k Kurizik armor for my monk i have to....REDO that boring (to my taste) campaign all over agin! for the 5th time!!!

i dont like playing in factions, all i like is allience battles. for all other PVE i prefer prophcies, sometimes the Elites but pnly with 1 character. and again, i dont like factions's PVE one bit,, why do i HAVE to play it all over again. i was even thinking of "hiring" my brother to play it instead of me just to get that armor. i liked the option of getting a run trough a boring mission or a boring area.

yes i like playing the game, but i find that unlike prophecies, factions is a game that drives me up the wall if i do a mission more then once

i know they wont talk about anything real just go to fansite so i have been trying to get in touch with Tack Jin Kim CEO and i guess founder of ncsoft so far no real luck but am still trying and have got a lot of info on this problem my sources tell me that people at guild wars are not responding to peoples complaints and retail places like wal-mart and target are thinking about not carrying ncsoft games why should you when all you get is an answer like this i have an list of one hundred people and its growing am sending a petition to Jack Jin Kim to here us this one of many rejections i have got

Thanks for contacting the Guild Wars Support Team.
Once again, you have contacted the SUPPORT TEAM.
If you wish to contact the DEVELOPMENT TEAM, you must do so via the fansite forums, as that is the way they have chosen to take suggestions and feedback from the players. The support team does not pass along ANY suggestions to the Dev team. Your question has been answered properly and adequately, and we feel that this issue is now closed. Any further contact about your suggestions will be closed without response

What a lot of rubbish

There is no block on farming.

There is no block on running (sure you can't run in factions, but there are storyline reasons for that).

And GW isn't a MMO, a real MMO isn't instanced.

And the original vison of GW was not for you to 'work' in the game by running and farming - the original vision was to actually play the game without the need to do all the other crap you do in real MMO's.

Ummmm... one punctuation would have been nice somewhere within that post. So what is this treasure trove of information from your sources... Better Business Bureau Complaints, letters or representatives from within the procurement offices of those companies, NCSoft's or ANet's internal memos, carefully taped together stacks of paper documents taken from shredder bins, or are they people who are just as frustrated as you? Plus, one hundred customers... out of the two million will hardly make ANet or NCSoft twitch.

Honestly, neither Wal-Mart nor Target are known for their own customer support unless there is a written warranty. They will take most items in return but hardly support their own name-brand products, they just issue refunds for store credit. They will take opened software back, finally, after a multi-million dollar lawsuit against a competitor and Microsoft.

When I stop seeing Firestone tires in the clearance bins at Wal-Mart, I'll buy into a bit more.

That is the truth though. I can't support them at all on this. Most companies at least pretend to take information than immediately transfer it circular filing system. I guess in some regards that is at least honesty. I think the problem is that ANet doesn't consider Farming and Running to be huge support issues and that the Dev team doesn't consider these issues to be problems.

Oh, foolish me. I guess all of us complaining, in multiple threads on this very site, are all just dreaming this. Thank you for pointing that out.


And that would be a block on running. I don't know about you, but unless you have OCD most people don't want to do the same, EXACT thing over six to ten times for each of our characters!

How many times do I have to say 'I don't F*cking care!'?!?!

So just how did affording the armor and dye fit into this 'vision' you've psychically gleaned from ncsoft?

For the umpteenth time...farming is not nerfed. If you and the others who are complaining about farming (which I haven't actually seen that many) can't figure out how to move around to different areas to farm and then not advertise your new locations so they don't get overrun by bots then I'm really sorry for you. All the farmers I know (myself included sometimes at least) are having a wonderful time quietly farming many areas not talked about on the forums.

The way I look at it is, whether ncsoft likes it or not, actions such as farming and running have become a major staple in the Guild Wars universe. I've been playing this game for about a year and three months now, and I've been watching the economy the entire time. I like to look at this and think of the economical system "Laissez-Faire", or "hands-off." While it's true that running and farming are things best known for in the grinding worlds of other online role playing games, they should also be present in Guild Wars. Whether people feel that's it's cheap, or that by running and farming you're somehow cheating, or not... that's not really the issue. If people are willing to pay in-game gold for people offering to run them halfway across the game, then by all means, let them. It's their money, and they should be able to do what they want with it. The Guild Wars staff shouldn't try put measures in place to limit the choices people have with their money. The people being ran are paying their gold, and the people running them are simply making a living in-game. Guild Wars can very well be an economy based not only on goods, but on services as well.

As far as farming goes, I don't see anything wrong with that either. If you have the experience (and in some ways, intelligence) to make a build that lets you take every monster out by yourself and get their gold, why shouldn't you be allowed to do it? The Guild Wars economy should be treated like a nation's economy. If the people are willing to spend their money, or time, doing something... they should be allowed to do it.

Disagree if you must, but that's where I stand. =P

A Perfectly usable set of max armor costs what 12k including materials and runes? You can make that in a couple of hours (less if you know what you're doing).

Any armor beyond that is:

1: optional and totally unnecessary to play the game
2: purely cosmetic - a vanity or status symbol
3: designed to be a challenge to acquire

There are very good reasons to forward suggestions to the forums instead of directly. I have played games where you could direct suggestions to the "developement team" directly in a Suggestion function, and guess what, they ignored it, it goes into a giant pile of repeated complaints and lost ideas.

And they proved they wern't reading it, because 4 years after the game had been out, they finally sent developers to a convention and talked to gamers, and when gamers brang up topics which had been in the forums, and I even sent them direct through the suggestion function, the developers said, "Wow, I never heard of that, I will take that back with us".

Anet does read these forums, I have seen dozens of suggestions and complaints influence the additions in the game, if not directly added. And I have even seen and conversed with some of the Anet reps in these forums. And so far, half of the new classes are very closely related to suggestions on these forums, Assassin and Paragon (although we don't know exactly how Paragon works yet).

Max armor at Droks costs 12k exactly without runes or dye (yes dye is optional, but so are runes if you want to be that technical). Warrior runes of superior absorption go for about 2k each right now so 5 pieces of armor X 2k = 10k. Orange dye 140g, green dye 100g, yellow dye 100g, mixed for a goldish bronze = 340g per vial, again X 5 = 1k700g.

That brings the armors total cost to 12k + 10k + 1k700g = 23k700g

I challlenge you to show me how you can make that in 4 hours of farming!

And if they didn't nerf farming, tell me please where the Icy Dragon Swords have gone?

If they didn't nerf farming, then where have the Icy Dragon Swords gone? And why is it, no matter which area I go to, the gold dropped by monsters has dwindled to a ridiculously low amount lately?

I have rotated my spots. I don't repeatedly go to the same areas like a bot would. I kill EVERYTHING in the area, and still can never make more than 1k.

Gold item drops are almost nonexistant recently, and I haven't even gotten a crappy dye drop in days! I have had 1 black dye drop, and 3 silver dye drops in the last 4 MONTHS of play!

The best item I've gotten recently is a superior absorption rune and that was 3 weeks ago. Don't tell me farming hasn't been nerfed by ncsoft's attempts to block bots!

Luckily most people don't care about the 'nerfs' since they are busy actually playing the game if 'working' inside a game is what you enjoy the most you should really consider if you aren't having some kind of problem.

Don't fool yourself and think a majority of people are bothered by what you percieve as a problem.

You continually blast your mouth without any regard as to whether what your saying is factual. There are other threads in this forum filled with players disgusted with the FACT that farming has been nerfed.

This forum was made to discuss the 'problems' we have with the changes in the game, so I will continue to deal with them here.

Based on your uninformed statement, I would say perception IS your problem.

I'm not uninformed you might be though - please understand that a vocal minorit does not equal a majority.

Now please go take your midol.

well i know for a fact that you can even get a set of 15k armor dyed black without farming.... all you have to do is save all your cash through all the missions and it works out nicely. That is what i did and my ele in black pyro suit is looking pretty good. Quite frankly farming kind of pisses me off simply because when i originally heard of the 15k armor i thought.... well that will be a challenge. I originally thought that what you had to do is become skilled enough to beat the game just on what you find with low level armor. Right after glint's lair i had enough for the armor alone. The following missions gave me the cash i needed for the dye. I was a bit pissed when then i went back to ascalon city to sell some stuff and saw a level 7 ele with my same armor. Keep in mind this was before titles came out. I thought that your armor was what told everyone... well i got that far and here is what i have to show for it. Kind of like a trophy on your wall. You may not agree with me.... but please hear me out. I am simply saying that nerfing farming wouldn't make 15k armor impossible to get... just more of a "game-long" challenge. Plus that might force a drop in price on alot of things... meaning those uber-expensive greens no one but farmers can afford suddenly become alot more affordable. Less money in the system drops the price of a WHOLE LOT of things. However i will have to agree with the nerfing the running thing. I have 4 proph chars and 2 faction chars. I find that after the second time of running through all the missions in the proph. campaign that i REALLY don't want to HAVE to do it again just to get the cool looking armor i want. So yea.... i have some cash left over from 2 of my chars i beat the game with and got 15k armor with.... so i want to get my other chars good armor (not 15k mind you... but good enough to use) just so the process of going through missions would be faster. so not being able to find a good runner would have been a pain. Taking my chars to factions is also proving to be a pain cause i can't get to where i want. It is just annoying. It isn't going to stop me from playing..... it will just stop me from making another factions char. ah well. Hopefully they read this stuff for Nightfall and expansion 4.