What's this Dervish tomfoolery? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Domino

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Houston

A/Rt

29 Jul 2006 at 18:00 - 1

This D/W in the AB was completely by himself, we had capped all the control points and the insta-win counter was going down.... well 2 tanks, an ele, and my assassin were just UNLOADING on this guy. He was poisoned, burning, and taking about 50-60 pts of damage a swing from me......not to mention a mesmer, hitting him with backfire and ineptitude....

and he's standing there healing and taking it like a 55, while dishing out AOE damage at the same time... and manages to kill the two tanks and the ele before going down himself.

now I haven't had a chance to go over the Dervish skills, but how the heck does someone do this??? Either this guy is really good, or the Dervish is a tad unbalanced.

Call me crazy, but I don't see how one dervish can solo 5 people in the AB

Solar_Takfar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

29 Jul 2006 at 18:26 - 2

D/W? the whirling dervish premade build is a pretty strong one, using four enchantments for pbaoe damage, then discharging them inflicting conditions to all around, as well as getting energy and health from mysticism to boot, and then using victory is mine to recharge pretty much all health and energy. I've soloed up to three guys by myself doing that; degen skills can really kill it, tho.

so, maybe the D/W you saw was this one, or a variation of it.

Talcimir

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

29 Jul 2006 at 18:29 - 3

i think that guy was just pretty good a dervish 'cause i tried that D/W build and I sucked with it.

kvndoom

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Communistwealth of Virginia

Uninstalled

W/Mo

29 Jul 2006 at 18:40 - 4

you should try fighting 4 of them in TA, they just surround you, unload, and bam, over 400DPS just like that. This crap is ridiculous. They fix sand shards, and less than a day later even more overpowered builds show up. Ugh.

MalVeauX

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

29 Jul 2006 at 18:50 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domino

This D/W in the AB was completely by himself, we had capped all the control points and the insta-win counter was going down.... well 2 tanks, an ele, and my assassin were just UNLOADING on this guy. He was poisoned, burning, and taking about 50-60 pts of damage a swing from me......not to mention a mesmer, hitting him with backfire and ineptitude....

and he's standing there healing and taking it like a 55, while dishing out AOE damage at the same time... and manages to kill the two tanks and the ele before going down himself.

now I haven't had a chance to go over the Dervish skills, but how the heck does someone do this??? Either this guy is really good, or the Dervish is a tad unbalanced.

Call me crazy, but I don't see how one dervish can solo 5 people in the AB

Look at all the other threads here on the forum about the Dervish Healers.

Dervish can nearly endlessly heal themselves without you realising, due to the Piety Signet. It recharges instantly and has virtually no activation time. So it's just heal, heal, heal, heal.

Now look at the AoE skill that is based on holding enchantments. It caps at 130 AoE damage.

Next time, just get someone to cast Diversion and/or use Nature's Renewal and "GG."

Cheers!

TheLordOfBlah

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

None

Mo/N

29 Jul 2006 at 23:07 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

you should try fighting 4 of them in TA, they just surround you, unload, and bam, over 400DPS just like that. This crap is ridiculous. They fix sand shards, and less than a day later even more overpowered builds show up. Ugh.

Hence why this is considered a "beta test" I've held off PVP till this is over, considering how its screwin it with wierd new skillz.

Ken Dei

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

W/Mo

30 Jul 2006 at 04:08 - 7

If your think D/W are tough, try killin a half intelligent D/Mo.

Lambentviper

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Noobs Just Took Halls [WTF]

Mo/E

30 Jul 2006 at 04:16 - 8

dervish are amazing really....im almost sad to see them be nerfed at the release of nightfall

Signet of Piety = greatest healing skill possible

goes a little like this:

Signet of Piety
Pious Renewal
Vital Boon
Dust Cloak
Staggering Force
Aura of Thorns

then just roll the enchantments and spam SoP...constantly healed, gaining energy and spreading the AoE damage and conditions like mad

ALL NEARBY FOES.

WAAAYY BETTER than dual smite

Quid Pro Quo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

30 Jul 2006 at 05:47 - 9

Actually to me it sounded like it was working correctly. Dervish are made to take on as many foes as possible I don't get why people don't see this.

Saix The Spartan

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

A/

30 Jul 2006 at 05:54 - 10

I really hope they don't get nerfed, there easy enough to take down in PvP...

topdragon147

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Minnesota

Onslaught of Xen [XoO]

R/

30 Jul 2006 at 05:57 - 11

everything has a counter, go find it

Jerich

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

The Mighty Few

Mo/Me

30 Jul 2006 at 06:07 - 12

Dervish are way overpowered right now. That is why you see teams of 6 D/Mos in HoH. Not sure how to nerf them.... probably just put bigger timers on the skills.

- Jerich

my benediction

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

W/A

30 Jul 2006 at 06:09 - 13

geeze, i was a paragon and almost single handedly took down one of those, all you gotta do is put a condition on em and maybe inturupt a couple skills. i ended up dying cause someone else attacked me too

Quid Pro Quo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

30 Jul 2006 at 06:35 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerich

Dervish are way overpowered right now. That is why you see teams of 6 D/Mos in HoH. Not sure how to nerf them.... probably just put bigger timers on the skills.

- Jerich

There not overpowered if anything they are working as intended. Now I know for sure that a lot of skills need to be a little rebalanced but nothing huge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saix The Spartan

I really hope they don't get nerfed, there easy enough to take down in PvP...

Yes they are!

Quote:

Originally Posted by my benediction

geeze, i was a paragon and almost single handedly took down one of those, all you gotta do is put a condition on em and maybe inturupt a couple skills. i ended up dying cause someone else attacked me too

Yes you fight one alone and they are really easy to take down. Its when they get in their enviroment (lots of enemies around them) that they become strong. Just like an iway build becomes powerful after their pets and/or team is dead. Its like saying Elementalists do too much damage because they killed a team that was bunched up too close with area attacks. Thats what their made to do.

TadaceAce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

30 Jul 2006 at 06:36 - 15

There is no counter to 6 enchants and CoP. No conditions, no hexes, no damage can break that.

merdle

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

PUMA

Me/N

30 Jul 2006 at 06:43 - 16

I think they POSSIBLY underestimated the combo potential of Enchants that wanna be removed + SKills that remove them + Instant recharge.

They may twiddle with them abit, but the profession seems to be mostly balanced. It's just the RA situation, where you may not have the Mesmer or conditions you need to take such builds down.

Maellus

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

30 Jul 2006 at 06:52 - 17

Yeah Dervishes have a way around conditions as well (Avatar of Melandru)... I find the best way to handle them are knockdown, and scourage healing/Mark of Death to reduce their healing ability (i dont think scourage works on the mysticism effect, if it does thats 30 dmg, with smiting prayers of 12, everytime an enchant ends on the Dervish). Not to mention that they are still soft targets and heavily skill dependant (Blackout FTW!!!).

Former Ruling

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cedartown, Georgia

R/

30 Jul 2006 at 07:05 - 18

Right now Dervishes are only popular because they are easy to Gimmick run on - running 6-7 of them crowding up on someone and Enchanting up and CoPing off.

It is AoE DPS that no Monk can heal though for long...

Dervishes are HELLA easy to bring down when theres a few of them or less...But theres little way around 6-7 of them piling near you and Doing the enchant+CoP stuff...

Alot of Damaging Enchants that even do stuff when they end...Then if you DO start killing them or hexing them up...BAM CoP it all off, and not only does that TOTALLY clean them of conditions and hexes, it Fills their energy bars and brings them to full health.

After that they aren't THAT hard to bring down once the avatars fade..BUt half your team is dead by then..

Jerich

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

The Mighty Few

Mo/Me

30 Jul 2006 at 07:15 - 19

One way to counter then would be to wait for COP and hit them with shroud of silence. That would completely shut down the build. Baring that though, I don't see a way other than simply outdamaging them or energy denial right after cop.

- Jerich

Former Ruling

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cedartown, Georgia

R/

30 Jul 2006 at 07:32 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerich

One way to counter then would be to wait for COP and hit them with shroud of silence. That would completely shut down the build. Baring that though, I don't see a way other than simply outdamaging them or energy denial right after cop.

- Jerich

Problems though.

1) You have to go to Touch Range on the target, which will more than likely get you Balt Rage Spiked before you even get the cast off...

2) You Just took out one of....6-7 spikers...for a couple of seconds...at the cost of all your spells.

Really the only effective way to get them is to out Tactics them and/or Kill their Dervishes begin CoP's and hope you are fast.

Sereng Amaranth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Amazon Basin [AB]

30 Jul 2006 at 07:35 - 21

Ritualists have this little thing called Disenchantment.

Former Ruling

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cedartown, Georgia

R/

30 Jul 2006 at 07:42 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sereng Amaranth

Ritualists have this little thing called Disenchantment.

Why would you want to HELP them?

Maybe you dont "get" the build..

They Stack Enchants on themselves that cause Effects at the beginning and end of the enchant. So they Stack them all up (which is several hundred AoE dmg per dervish) then they just CoP them all off - Spike healing the dervish both health adn energy wise, and causing the "ending" effect of all their enchants..

You removing one...Just speeds that side of the process up.

Jerich

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

The Mighty Few

Mo/Me

30 Jul 2006 at 07:55 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

Problems though.

1) You have to go to Touch Range on the target, which will more than likely get you Balt Rage Spiked before you even get the cast off...

2) You Just took out one of....6-7 spikers...for a couple of seconds...at the cost of all your spells.

Really the only effective way to get them is to out Tactics them and/or Kill their Dervishes begin CoP's and hope you are fast.

Oops sorry I meant Shadow Shroud, the one that blocks enchants. I guess even that only lasts for 10 seconds though.

One thing that partialy negates this build is spirit bond. Since the core skills they are using do more than 60 damage, it always fires. I might roll it up on my boon prot and see how it works.

- Jerich

Demesis

Banned

Join Date: May 2006

30 Jul 2006 at 08:08 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sereng Amaranth

Ritualists have this little thing called Disenchantment.

Dude, you do NOT wanna disenchant a Dervish....

Quid Pro Quo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

30 Jul 2006 at 08:59 - 25

Well in the spirit of the Dervish what if their attacks became less lethal if there are more then 4 on one team?

Spura

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2005

30 Jul 2006 at 12:32 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerich

Oops sorry I meant Shadow Shroud, the one that blocks enchants. I guess even that only lasts for 10 seconds though.

And also last balance change made it so it doesn't stop untargeted enchants, like boon or dervish ones, anymore.

Lambentviper

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Noobs Just Took Halls [WTF]

Mo/E

30 Jul 2006 at 12:42 - 27

R/Me Cripshot with HIGH ARMOR VS ELE......still not easy to do, as ive killed many of these as my D/W, but its better than running in as a wammo and getting your ass beat

glountz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/Mo

30 Jul 2006 at 13:07 - 28

Two words:
Kiting.
Positioning.

A dervish is nothing without several people around him. Just don't let this happen.
Kill him from far.
Still, some dervish combos are really deadly.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

30 Jul 2006 at 13:43 - 29

I've not played D/* (had too much fun with my custom R/P, who pwns pretty much everyone except mesmers, but will try out a dervish after reading this), but how about Desecrate Enchantments?

Spura

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2005

30 Jul 2006 at 14:46 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambentviper

R/Me Cripshot with HIGH ARMOR VS ELE......still not easy to do, as ive killed many of these as my D/W, but its better than running in as a wammo and getting your ass beat

Cripshot doesn't work when they put on melandru form.

wren e

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Xen of Onslaught

30 Jul 2006 at 14:53 - 31

Flame me if you want, but I have had a lot of success using a touch ranger against both dervish's and paragons this weekend.

Denny Pace

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Good Eye Sniper [GeS]

30 Jul 2006 at 17:22 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sereng Amaranth

Ritualists have this little thing called Disenchantment.

In addition to the fact that you don't understand why this is a very bad idea (read above flames), Ritualists will almost certainly be rendered extinct as a result of Dervishes and Paragons. Too many interrupts (Rits have long cast times), disenchantments (Ritualists are useless without Boon of Creation) and too much non-melee damage (Rits can't protect against disenchantment damage, and are spongy targets themselves) out there for them to be useful at all in any serious PvP.

Unless there's a very clever nerf for Dervishes, RIP Ritualists.

Fluffyx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Courtney PantsuLand

Death By Teazu [TEA]

W/Mo

30 Jul 2006 at 17:29 - 33

Rend Enchantments - Spell
Target foe loses 5-8 enchantments. For each Monk Enchantment removed, you take 55-31 damage.

I expect to see more skills like this with nightfall. While a build may be powered by enchantments being lost gaining the hp and energy, the loss of all the enchantments at once when you arent ready to lose them should throw the dervishes game off.

xenochaosxeno

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2006

We Stand Allied

A/Mo

30 Jul 2006 at 18:39 - 34

That dervish you saw in AB was probly me. The luxons were about to win so i went to a shrine and solo capped it. Then the luxons swarmed my post as I commenced the AoE beat down. You can't beat me. I went in RA and lasted against a whole team....they eventually gave up.(i wont say how long because i would only make them and myself look ridiculous).
Have a fun pvp event.

Ken Dei

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

W/Mo

31 Jul 2006 at 04:22 - 35

Dervishes are easy to kill....it's called interrupts....Dervishes are ALWAYS casting something....if they miss even two items in a row, they are SCREWED.

IsaacFlame

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2006

Bad Karma Ressurection [BKR]

W/Mo

31 Jul 2006 at 04:51 - 36

yeah, that whirling dervish build is CRAZY. stack up the enchants and when they end, either u get healed or u cause a hell of a lot of dmg and some degens..my guess would be having those enchants all disrupted like Ken said, the dervish would get really screwed

Juhanah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

in my house

31 Jul 2006 at 05:02 - 37

Could always use Nature's Renewal with some interruption or an Energy denial build. They have very low energy to begin with so energy denial + Famine elite spirit and mind wrack could probably do something good.

New classes will always seem over powered since we don't have enough time to find and test good counter against certain builds people come up with during PvP preview. It was the same with the Faction PvP event. But thing will cool down after Nightfall comes out. Not to mention that Anet will most likely change some of the skills too and we will get new core skills also. We don't know what will be those new skills so maybe there will be good counter in them.

I think its too soon to tell if the new classes are over powered or under powered.

Raziel665

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Defenders of the Blackblade [DotB]

N/Mo

31 Jul 2006 at 06:33 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domino

This D/W in the AB was completely by himself, we had capped all the control points and the insta-win counter was going down.... well 2 tanks, an ele, and my assassin were just UNLOADING on this guy. He was poisoned, burning, and taking about 50-60 pts of damage a swing from me......not to mention a mesmer, hitting him with backfire and ineptitude....

and he's standing there healing and taking it like a 55, while dishing out AOE damage at the same time... and manages to kill the two tanks and the ele before going down himself.

That may have been me >.>
I was able to do that a few times this weekend using the D/W premade build and just only 2 added skills.

Tetris L

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Germany

Servants of Fortuna

31 Jul 2006 at 06:41 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by topdragon147

everything has a counter, go find it

Well of the Profane FTW

TadaceAce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

31 Jul 2006 at 07:04 - 40

I don't get all the bit about CoP.. they nerf CoP they will just start using sig piety more which I actually think would hurt more.