How do they fix dervish?

Considering it doesnt take a skill slot and has no drawbacks, the parity is valid unless you are suggesting that rangers should have -160hp and may not be the target of enchantments.

Considering how many of them are just so bland that people only take one of 2 of the skills speaks volumes already i think.

Considering the existing self contained hex removal, i could really give a flying sperm whale about how high the AL is or if their physical attacks are changed to holy attribute.


Considering the bulk of their "strength" does not lie in attack skills and those skills must also hit, while being commonly attached to a slow attack speed weapon, i really do not see your point at all. You also fail to realize the difference between a party wide buff and a self only, yet available ~50% of the time buff.



Like i said, why bother, double tap em for 120ish damage pbaoe in that time frame = dead warrior.

With the Dervish I can see what they have tried to achieve. An enchant heavy warrior who isn't totally raped by enchant removal.

I just don't think they've achieved this task. Dervishes aren't used as melee warriors at all, (well hardly) they're used as point blank spell casting nukers.

They can balance a dervish completely but tweaking an existing skill.

Change shadow shroud. It states that the target foe cannot be the target of enchantments. Change that to target foe cannot be enchanted. That's 1 useless dervish.

I think you can increase the recharge on Balth Rage and Holy Fire to 12-15 seconds would be fair. 20 seconds imo is too long. These guys have to go through alot to get to the target to use that pbaoe. Then if anyone is kiting you won't hit them. They are very new and people cannot deal with them atm because of the recharge. If they recharge was higher it would be mangable.

As for the Avatars they are balanced. I see many other elites that I would much rather not face than compared to the avatars.

Personally I don't mind them as is. Bring the other classes dmg up to match them. I play GvG all day but I don't want to go to VoD every single battle. After the rit and sin was introduced that's what the game became about. Gank the NPCs with the Sin and let the Rit hold your team out till VoD.

I would love to see this tactic change. If that means introducing a class to the game that can own in you in a few seconds if you play dumb so be it. I've seen the D/Mo build work and I've seen it fall right on its face and kill nothing. I expect this will be reduced some but hopefully not by much.

Also, Just tested this. The "Holy Damage" from Avatar of Balthazar is the Judge's Insight version of Holy damage, not the ignores armor version.

Mysticism is by far the best primary attribute of any of the classes. It is healing and energy management combined in one, without even needing to use a single skill. (CoP simply activates the inherent potential of Mysticism in an eye-popping way -- CoP itself is not the issue.) As if Mysticism weren't good enough already, we have Balthazar's Rage. By investing 16 in Mysticism, the Dervish gets not only healing and energy management, but also spammable, armor-ignoring AoE damage. Truly, what other attribute line can boast all of these things? None.

Mysticism is the heart of the Dervish's power, and so that's where I think the nerfs will come first.

As for Wind, Grenth's Fingers and Heart of Holy Flame are roughly equivalent to Aftershock or Whirlwind. Yet the AoE cripple from Grenth's is undeniably a better side effect than either of the Ele spells, and Holy Flame is armor-ignoring. So from this perspective these skills do outpace their Ele equivalents. But clearly a slight tweak would make these advantages less significant. I do not think these spells are as good as people think -- it is Mysticism that allows these spells to be spammed and keeps the Dervish alive to do it, even in the face of significant pressure.

Also, due to CoP, hexing/conditioning Dervishes right now can be pretty useless. If CoP removed 0..1 conditions/hexes per enchant lost (ie, 0 at 0 Divine), that would make available a whole range of counters that are at this time difficult to use or ineffective.

ahaha I had to comment on this quote. A dervish compared to a wammo... well lets see the dervish would do probably around 10 to 15 times as much damage, he would be anywhere from 5 to 10 times as difficult to kill, and he could heal others while killing everything "nearby".

Changing CoP won't quite do it, pious assault and sig piety both remove enchants very effectively. You lose the hex and condition removal but you still get the healing and a lot more with sig piety.

Right now, dervishes are THE best tanks, THE best damage dealers, and arguable THE best healers all fit into an 8 skill build.

They are only powerful if used correctly by a good player. There are thousands of dervishes out there, roughly 10% of them are any better than anybody else. I want to see them nerfed yes, but I have a feeling Anet might go overboard and change them from "why use anything else" to "why would we want a dervish".

Also lets not forget how overpowered R/P is, its a ranger, but a lot more damage + an incredibly easy to use daze (imagine if they nerfed CoP so it only effected monk enchants, good luck CoP off the daze with just mantra on you ).

Wow, notice how all of the Dervish downers that haven't played them are like "NERF IT ANET!!!" and how the ones that have played it are like, "No, their underpowered." I for one say their just fine, people just aren't creative enough to find a counter to this class. I for one have found plenty..

IE: Backfire(they cast alotta spells), empathy(yes they do atk w/ their scythes now and then), diversion(dissable thier next aoe spell/healing), blind(keep those scythe attacks at bay), cripple(cant hurt ya if they cant catch ya), slowdowns(same as cripple), Degen(they have virtually no defense against degen), etc(I can go on for a while)

Man, you guys just aren't being creative enough. Think of them similar to the touch ranger.

All of those are eliminated with CoP.

yea make cop have a 3 second cast time+ 2 sec cooldown this way even if cop is prevented from being inturrupted the time wasted is enough to slow dosn the dervrish much like SoH slows down a warrior.

not only that but when i had CoP on cooldown( i i want to take credit for first posting CoP on these forums) my earht prayer dev was virtually defensless. i counter the interruptes by useing a skil lthat removes enchants to keep you uninterupted, unfortuantly i lost 2 encahnts per CoP heal many times this way and there for could often not put them up and was again defensles.

a 3 sec cast tiem ensures that CoP cannot be spammed, it can be innturupted 2-3 time losing the deverish all of his inchantments within seconds, and not only that he is also without a heal untill he an put up more enchants.

although 3 secondfs cast tiem + cooldown might be overboard, i think the idea behind CoP is balenced its the the numbers need tweaking,

lol 3 sec cast time CoP... are you kidding...

Anet did a great job creating a class that is imo, the most fun to play and also the most challenging class to play. Granted it is also the most powerful but still. Fix a few things, don't make them bad because I like playing them.

We don't want to nerf CoP in a longer cast time. That is just dumb. The boon prot relies on CoP to keep hex/conditions of of him so he can use his other hex/condition removal skills for other allies.

All you have to do is link the enchantment removal to Divine favor so only a monk can use it for more than 1 enchantment removal. That makes it usable by boon prots and stops the abuse from dervishes.

No, they'll just switch to Pious Restoration and remove 3 hexes per enchantment instead.

Boon prot has been calling for a nerf since it was first popularized. Very few other Monk builds are run in PvP. Now would be the oppertune moment to strike it down permanently.

I like the direction Anet went with the game. Enchantments have been either really hot or really cold in the metagame largely due to the use of NR and recently OoA. Dervishes provide a clever way to use enchantments, which enhances the metagame. Both dervishes and paragons have provided an interesting balance of defensive and offensive power on a single character. This is amazingly useful in HA and for solo players in pvp, but somewhat niche in competitive GvG.

I feel that balancing should err slightly on the side of a strong dervish, since there is the ability to tone down the profession once it has established itself. Any nerf threatens complete uselessness in high level play. Once you get rid of a few abusive builds, dervishes aren't even that interesting in RA. Yes some dervish balancing is needed, but at the end of the day the Paragons scare me more.

The most interesting roles I see for dervishes are characters designed to overextend and harrass monks, or runner/ganker solo characters.

You nerf boon prot completely and you'll have a 2 BL monk backline. BL monks are very strong but do not do well in splits. They have very little self heals unlike the boon prot.

Boon prots are what make the split build possible to begin with. You usually don't see a BL monk line split. If they do there is a rit lord there.

My suggestion is to make Devrish's armor to give only 3 arrow of energy regen (you can still get 4 arrow, if you wear a special piece, but will cost you AL or HP), and to make all dErvish's enchantment cost 1 or 2 arrow of energy to maintain.

Give more reason to use of Mystism.

I think dervish is good class... but just in comapre to other class.. their skill and armor just seem too good, that it shames down War, Ranger, Elem, and Monk.

That wont work, because you would also have to remove all existing enchantments before they could use a .25s or .75s use time skill. This is also assuming that the current "favorite" form skills arent nerfed into oblivion and people just move to dwana instead.

I think you are looking at it from the underside of the top instead of from the topside of the top. The dervish needs the enchantments to end in order to recast the enchantments for more damage. Slowing the recharge time down to 12~15s wont change anything really, but going as far as 20s will basically make all of them "elementalist" skills in one aspect. You have to also look at what can cause the skills to be shed and the time it takes to use or how often they are available as well.

*IF* they were balanced, then you would have seen all the avatars see play this weekend. Instead we only saw melandru's and balthazar's forms running around.

Sure, i dont think anyone will mind 300 damage lightning orbs and mind shocks, 1 copy of balthazar's aura doing 50-70dps, and other similar craziness.

Even better, we could even nerf the damage down and just have this update.
*Monks can no longer cast healing and protection spells.
*Communing and Restoration lines removed from the ritualist skill sets.

In a similar parity to a different gametype, you would just be flat out foolish to use anything but the 1 hit kill gun instead of the precision based skill weapon. The current version of the dervish with how the skills interact with each other is basically like that and there is nothing really tactical about it. Either it gets there or the person behind the wheel is a moron and it doesnt. Changing the calibur of consistant damage inflicted is not tactical at all. Although i did find it amusing that muddy terrain became the most effective snare in gw for the weekend, or rather the only effective snare.