The TRUE problem with GW:/

i didnt read everything...yet... to much for my poor eyes...

But, i really do hate more than half the players in this game because they all treat me as a lesser player, and personally, i feel superior than them when they do that to me, and i flame them because i know what theyre talking about, most of the time BETTER than what they say about their...'expertise'... i will call it . I have been on GW for a long time, and yes i do treat a lvl 6 the same way i would a lvl 20. because by now most of them half main chars. i will talk about a skill they might wanna use, if they dont know it i say a mini description, i dont ACT superior to them, just HELP. It saddens me personally to see all these idiots going around acting like they rule their 'expertise'. it doesnt give me hope for the future of GW.


PS~WARS BRING A FLIPPIN RES....ALWAYS....NO BUTS

too many writings, read the first post, and can't be bothered read the remaining. here's my 2c

i've met jerks, i've met decent players... if you hope to meet all decent players in mmo, you have mistaken...

i don't think there's anything wrong withc ommunication system,... there are chat filter, chat turn off function... nowdays i turn off local and trade chat just so that i can converse with guildies...

or once you found good players, add them to your friend, when you found bad players, add them to your ignore... so next time you pair up with them, you can expect sh*t from them... when i EVER see some1 from my ignore trying to get into MY grp, i'd either kick, or leave... because they did a bad deed and they deserve to be punished...

Devs play the game, and they even have a guild that GvGs. >.> Gaile even plays/PvPs. There's no problem with GW Devs not playing their own game.

I agree that the chat system is kinda clunky but an ingame voice chat wouldn't fix it. Also, Anet can't be blamed or really do anything about the ever present clump of Guild Wars' players that go out of their way being stupid jerks to other people.

/stupid people make fun of posts made in genuine anger. Leave him alone.

Now...I play a good deal of guild wars, prolly about 10 hrs a week, 1,300 hours since i got it. That doesn't keep me from suggesting some of you ppl get out a bit more. I mean, if the game frustrates you so much that you're just stewing about the chat system, why not just quit and relieve yourself of the stress?

I personally love this game, I too have my problems w/ it and am all for suggestions, but if a game EVER made me truly unhappy I would quit in a second. There are much more important things. It seems like some of these ppl, especially the OP, feel as if their world is ending b/c of chat spam and unfriendly ppl. Guess what guys, thats life, we can't live in Walgreens all the time. Imo Guildwars and Factions are well put together products in the big scheme and I enjoy them thoroughly.

In Game Comms:
Just how many MMO games have built in voice comms? None? Plenty of free voice chat programs available on the internet. D/L one.

Jerks in game:
Well, hate to break it to ya, but jerks are everywhere, not just GW. I do agree, however, that ANet should've funded, and made allowances for, in game GMs to allow folks to respond to issues immediately, and in a more personal way.

Broke Trade system:
We need another rant about a lack of an auction house?

Can't find decent groups to party with:
Join a guild.

D&D Online has it. And I'll bet others will have it in the future.

I'm not sure it's necessarily a technical issue though. That would be a lot of bandwidth to pay for, and remember, ANet doesn't collect monthly fees. I'm not sure how the economics would work out.

surely, if you have in-game voice chat one of two things will happen, either:

a) People will stop calling everyone noobs and being general jerks since doing it to someone directly is probably more scary for the jerk...

or

b) People will just have slanging matches over voice chat, undesirable language will be exchanged which Anet will not be able to control and so they will be forced to stop it...

Really, it's asking for trouble. My brother and I use MSN. No, it doesn't cause lag, not if you have a good enough connection anyway, It serves its purpose...and that's all that matters.

and
and this is why i DONT want in game voice com, because sooner or later it will be a requirment to have it to get into a group, and i DONT want to talk to these people.

Its a waste of resources that should be spent on.....>

Becuase putting in a trade/auction house is obviosly low priority for them, even though its despratly needed for alot of people, or maybe they just cant do it because they cocked up so badly by not putting it in from day 1.

Suggestions for ANet, apart from the usual better grouping/better trade suggestions:

- In the game itself, have an official list of guilds (they can omit guilds with less than 10 or so members if they need to cut the list down) with the following information: A short descriptive paragraph, a flag indicating PvE/PvP focus, flag indicating whether the guild is recruiting. This list needs to be searchable, sortable, etc.

- You should be able to select any player in the game, and at the touch of a button, see the above information for their guild.

- You should be able to click on a button "Apply to guild", and the guild's officers /leaders will see your name on a list in their Guild Window, and they can contact you when they feel like it.

- change "All" chat into "Shout", and make it extremely limited - 1 message per minute or something.

- Make a new "All" chat. In town, it works like this: Messages you type can only be seen by people standing "nearby" you. It will show up in their chat box, and also, they will see a speech bubble with your full message in there. In missions and explorables, "All" chat works the same way it does now.

- Allow people to write a short sentence describing themselves. They can change the sentence at any time. You can see a player's information by targeting them and pressing a button, or from friends list, guild roster etc. Players can use this sentence for whatever reason they like, for example "A dark and smelly man." or "WTB Ectos pm me" or "Looking for help with Sunjiang district pm me" or "Friendly helper, beginners feel free to ask me questions" or "Will cyber for tips" or whatever.

- Either change the guild member limit to something like 500, or allow people to see who's online in other guilds in their alliance. Oh, and make Alliances a core feature, not a GW:F one.


Suggestions for players:

- Be proactive in finding an active guild that you like. A reasonably large guild, or a small guild that plays at the same time as you. Dont be lazy and be guildless, or be with a guild you dont particularly like. Go through all the forums, apply to different guilds, talk to nice people you meet ingame about their guilds, etc.

- You want a community? Form your own! Start a thread to meet people with similar backgrounds and interests. Hang around some GW IRC channels and play with the people you meet there. Find some like-minded people and make a serious commitment to play at a particular time (like those good ol days with the weekend D&D game

- Anyone who seems reasonably nice and mature, ask if you can friend them. Then make an effort to play together if you see them online, even if you're helping them out sometimes, etc.

- Be nice to new people whenever you can. Answer questions whenever you see them, play a mission/quest or two with them if you feel like it. Just dont give them anything, and dont run them, powerlevel them, or otherwise "lead" them in anyway. Tag a along, chat, let them kill stuff and give a hand if they're in trouble.



Oh, and I've played WoW before, and EQ2... the only reason they seemed to have a better community is because it's easier to ignore the majority of people there (since you can only talk when you are nearby), and because you generally meet them in small groups, or 1 on 1, etc.

In GW we have the problem of the most annoying people being the most vocal, and the most audible. (ie. the people spamming loudly and rudely in All chat.)

And to counter the OP's Leeroy Jenkins argument, I bring up Ian Boyd from TGH :P

Make lots and lots of friends, then you wont even need to use general chat and have it off permanently.

Be a good person, seek out a good guild and learn to type faster. This will help you overcome the communication barrier commonly found in most PuGs.

I think alot of you are failing to see the point. Teamspeak, vent, ignore-list, friend-lists, trade-channels, a good guild all really help the game. But they are just bandaids and nowhere near a fix to the real problem.

If I want to sell something I am forced to go to a district and spam my WTS message amongst the clutter in hopes that someone will eventually pick it up. If I want to do a certain mission but cannot field a full team through guild and friendlist I am forced to spam LFG amongst the clutter in hopes that someone will join. If I want to do HA but cannot field a full team I am once again forced to go spam 'r7 lfg' for about half an hour in hopes of finding a group. It is insane for a game that revolves completely around tight teamwork to have such an insanely horrible grouping system. Heck: I could be searching for a rank 6+ Word of Heal in district 1 while at the same time there is a rank 6 Word of Heal in district 2 spamming his message...

Why am I forced to spent so much time 'spamming' when I could be out doing something else? Why should pugging be so horribly hard? Isn't it a bit strange you NEED a good guild or a large friend list to be able to enjoy PvP even a little? What about people that just start, aren't in a good guild or do not have an extensive friend-list? Why should it be so hard for them to actually make a group?

Just imagine this: what if GW had some sort of 'lfg-auction house-like system'? You log in, you press 'x' to access it. It lists all the groups that are currently looking for someone, what they're looking for and what they're gonna do. If there is nothing you like you can simply post a 'lfg' message and do something else in the mean time. Similarly, if you're creating a group but are someone short you just browse through the 'lfg' pages or put your own message up there. You could keep the clutter to a minimum by using the right filters (make a PvE section, divide that in farming and missions etc/ make a PvP section, divide that in RA, TA, HA, GvG, rank categories etc...).

A system like that would greatly enhance the groupmaking process in GW. This isn't just about an auction house. This is about Anet failing to understand a key-part of their game: how to easily create groups. I'm absolutely certain alot of people would enjoy GW alot more if they didn't have to go through the tedious group-making process at is right now.
Similarly, I understand that a system like that is a major overhaul. It would probably take quite some time and would consume a lot of resources. I don't even know if it is feasable with the GW budget.

Nevertheless, it would be one of the the best things to ever hit GW...

The OP is right on the money, the communication and community tools in GW are seriously lacking.

Like, really really lacking. Unhealthy-for-sales lacking.

Imagine the stuff that the guy above me proposed.

Or imagine a friends list where you actually know who the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO people are because you can write notes for each one. Imagine setting a tag that lets friends know you're available to play game types x,y,x. Etc.

Ok... so let me ask you people?

what good will a 3 part device like vent do me if no one else has? Im going into a PUG. I got 8 minutes to play dinner. I NEED DOES PEOPLE COMMUNICATION WITH ME NOW, beyond the concept of saying "thx", "k", "lolz", "byz" and so on.


What good will a guild do me when it takes 1 second to join a guild because its so easy to make and join them? i have been in over 10 guilds at least since i started playing and all of them have been with people who didnt gave a rats arse about what their fellow members needed help or advice about. its freakin unbeliveable. but who wonders?? who can blame people when there is no communication tools? there is no in game event tools or no in game email system for the guild leader to send emails around to all members about up comming pvp tournaments. the pvp leader just cant send an email around to everyone saying; "be online 11 pm next friday. we got gvg match!!!".

despite being called guild wars, the guild concept is strapped on features. you can barely see the difference between guilds. you barely know any guilds. no one knows any guilds. thats because no one cares. thats because communication is bad. thats because the pvp tournaments are horrible promotoed. has nothing to do with the shallow failings of factions.


"why don't you just quit if you have a problem with the game?". This one always cracks me up. The real kicker is that people assume that you just all out hate this game because you have issues with it. no its true.. the game works.. its fun. hell im probably one of the few who liked factions as much as the original. But that does not mean that I don't have problems with it.


find friends?`And then what? not only are 90% of the people on my friends list almost never on, but also when they are on its sluggish and badly implanted. I almost never notice when I get a whisper and neither do they. if people talk to me or trying to trade me with me I barely never notices. that system is also stupid.

your standing like an imbecile in the middle of ascalon city. everyone is running around spamming. the way chat bubbles work is stupid and limited. for some reasons you cant make long chat bubbles. the camera is panned upwards. you cant go into a tent or underground to an inn to sit and relax and have a nice conversation with someone. chat bubbles even go through walls. apparently there is no unified trading systems or grouping systems that goes beyond the realm of a certain district? and why not promote the opputunity to play with our korea and japanese that has so few players that even their prime time districts are empty?


why is it that WoW pwns this in the charts? there are not that many warcraft or blizzard fans in the world.

its because GW is not user friendly. GW is great but its probably like only 1 out of 10 that gets really into it. and it shows with factions. it didnt sold worse because it was worse. it sold worse because many people had a bad experience with the first game. bad torturial. bad chat system. bad way to meet other people.

and you can all argue yourself yellow and blue. the facts speak for itself.


Gamespot from their factions review; "Despite the multiplayer focus, communicating with other players feels clunky" : http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/guild...ns/review.html


and its true.

and im not speaking about me. im speaking about OTHER people. im saying this on the behalf on all does who has given up on this game so long ago. its so clear now that when everyone stops playing it and people stop carrying. Lets be honest... the GW fanbase does not care about GW. they are just waiting for the next cheap on fee based online RPG to come around and they will be out of her. I doubt anyone will have any fond memories of this game, since it has no soul or personallity. neither does its playerbase, and thats whats so sad because its really a great game with some good interventions.

Anet just does not seem interested in walking around the hurdls.


this games pvp does not work without voice com. its simply to deep. it just wont work in a good way.


and voice iped games work fine. I played awesomely in Planetside and CSS. I did fine when I played on xbox live. and thats a damn console for gods sakes. there is no excuse for not having it, because GW needs it so much.


but as another guy said, voice IP wont fix the problem with clunky chat and chat bubbles, and badly implanted friends lists and lack of social and communication features with other players and developers.


communication effects all.

it effects us all in the sense that we can meassure our skill against each other. we cant because we got a bad overly simple ranking system. bad bad bad ladder. was very dissapointed that there was no deeper aspect to this. no individuel-best-player ladders?

it effects us all in the sense that we have a harder time meeting people I like. for example I would prefere to group with people over 30, from perhaps my own región! there is no searching system like that, like there is in many other MMOs. it would be swell if there was such a system.



listen everyone - im not mad at the game. I love this game with all my heart. I have the CDs in my underpants right now. I love all of you. I REALLY LOVE YOU. the problem is that I have a hard time meeting up with nice people like you. I do feel its clunky and I do wish it would be easier. and that is all.

Im sorry... please dont mistake me for anything because im gonna get a tatoo in my forehead that says nightfall. I LOVE YOU AND I LOVE ANET. AND I LOVE THIS GAME.






BUT IN THE END I CAN NOT HELP FEELING THAT GW IS ONLY REACHING A LIMITED PONTENTIAL BECAUSE OF THE CLUNKY COMMUNICATION.



HAVE A NICE DAY.

Okay - help me out Shadowfell...what exactly are you suggesting then? I've edited your post to get to your main points...

1. Flaming. Unfortunately, the game is filled with immature people (whether 30 years old or 14 years old), but this is typical of almost every MMORPG out there. How do you solve that problem? In-game chat monitors? Do they regulate whispers as well? A much more harsh ANet reporting system? Again, I can't see a solution to this problem...so other than complaining that "people are jerks", what exactly is the point to pointing it out? That's what the "ignore" function is for, IMO.

2. Voice Communication. I wholeheartedly agree, but for a game that is already starting to have problems with lag, I'm a bit worried that instituting something of that magnitude may make things worse rather than better. They've promoted Vent/TS as an outside solution to that, but even that has its limitations when playing with someone outside of your guild.

3. Spamming. An auction house would help this problem, but definitely isn't the end of the spamming. In other words, unless you're ACTIVELY looking to buy something, you likely won't visit the auction house that often. This is the exact problem with the trade channel today - people want to "catch" those that aren't actively looking to buy something with their wares, hoping that they get someone just passing through town to purchase their item. Chat filters can only help so much, but I think an auction house would at least mitigate some of the problem.

4. Lack of Players. This is why they have a wide selection of henchmen, and will introduce customizable henchmen for Nightfall. Unfortunately, they can't force players to play all aspects of the game when a particular person desires it...there is only so much they can do in this arena. Again, not sure why this is a relevant point to this thread.

5. Again, I'm not sure what pointing out "PvP has no end rewards" has to do with a communication thread. I think, at least outside of GvG and HA, they started to address this with the titles and the zaishen medallions...but even that has much to be desired.

In the end, I agree that communication in Guild Wars has much to be desired. However, I don't see many suggestions as to how to improve it other than #2 and #3 above - which is installing voice communication to solve the limitations of Vent/TS and to installing an auction house. The rest seem more to be general complaints without any suggestion as to how to improve them...which is the true value of a thread like this.

Sorry if this is coming across as a "flame", but complaining without citing specific problems and proposing solutions to those problems doesn't seem to add any value to the forum, other than promoting the negative attitude in/towards GW that the OP was originally addressing.

To lawnmower - I saw your recently deleted post as to "I guess there's no reason to point out cancer is a problem if I don't have a cure"...

Actually, there isn't a point to it. Everyone knows that cancer is bad. Creating a post that says "You guys know what - Cancer is really bad" really has no point to it. Specifically identifying a new type of cancer so that people can attempt to find a cure for it HAS a reason, IS valuable, which is what I was hoping to see in this post. Again, this is not intended to be a flame, but more pointing out how "generally complaining" about something doesn't really add any value to the forum.

You need to investigate how to find a good guild. Sounds like you join the guilds that make the first 10 to sign up officers.

Good players have no problems getting invites to good guilds. Good guilds do not blindly invite people. They meet people from playing with them and over time, get to know them. If they are nice, active, willing to learn, and have similar interests to the guild, that's when they get invited.

Uh, yes he can... Guild Announcements. They show up everytime you log on and everytime they are edited.

Many guilds are well-known ingame for a variety of reasons. But, even so, you don't have to be in a well-known guild to have a group of players together that have similar interests, are active, etc.

Perhaps you need to revise your friends list. Also, see below.

Please don't tell me you don't know about the chat window. Why are you speaking of chat bubbles and how long they are ? Who cares ? Look at the chat window.

This kind of leads me to believe that you just don't know how the communication in this game works, with whispers, different channels, the check-boxes on the chat window that you don't seem to know about. Of course communication would suck if you only knew about the bubbles above peoples heads when they talk.

@OP

Sorry but in my opinion you are blaming Anet for fact that people are being jerks or 12 years old kiddos. How could they fix that? Include some brainwash into gw?

Seriously I'm tired of thoose TRUE reason that GW sucks threads... If it sucks for you then just stop playing and don't bother ranting on forums. If you still play this game then get over it and admit its awesome even if it has glitches or some issues that are in need of fix.

And stop blaming "Anet" like if it was particular person. Anet did this, anet dis that, anet is liar and anet doesn't see obvious things... meh. Anet is big company full of people not some pariah that you can unload all anger on when you just need to rant. You are playing this game - I bet you are even wasting your life on it (as most of us here:P) - stop being childish... there must be something in it. And yes - people are being jerks - that is in life and every game there.

I agree with this, while communication is nice, I have no desire to hear fools calling others names when they go off and aggro half a map and scream at the monk when they die.

I thought the true problem lately has been lack of quality content. Favor is still blocking off a good deal of quests and end game content, so it's hit and miss to play it. The elite missions are being worked on it seems, I'm just hopeful we see the change go in and stay. So when I saw the title here, that's what I thought the thread would be about.

So if we do get some sort of voice com, I hope we don't auto log into a group chat. I hope it stays optional or we have the ability to choose something like guild chat.

Seriously dude, your like complaining about how the chat system sucks to bejesus, which i think it is in a sense. One of my main rants is the fact that the trade system sucks. I see all the time peeps saying "W T S _______ 100k+424341234ectos!!!".(notice the spacing between the wts, cuz they fixed the trade think somewhat) Honestly, I just wanna talk to peeps in district 1 w/o my message in the chat box quickly jumping up because of the traders.

My ideayeah that's right i do have ideas, thats what you should do b4 complaining about something)

1.) Make a Bazaar/auction house already guys...Please. It will keep the trading shouts to a minimum, because it will flock the buyers to that area and sellers will not be wasting 10+hours to sell that (Insert rare green here)

2.) Have taverns around so people can just hang around with eachother and enjoy the booze!

voice is a disaster just waiting to kill GW.

think i am kidding?

picture this.

mommy walks past the game being played and never notices the chat garbage and is happy the kid is having fun.

same scene with audio chat and she gets an earfull and yanks the game.

WTF would i want to hear 10 times more crap out loud because they can speak 10 x faster than typing

voice chat equals dead GW

2 words.
Head-Phones.

And if they are 'screaming' why don't you just turn off the volume? It's not like Guild Wars has awesome sound/music anyway.

Anyway, I agree with Lawnmower. Maybe if Guild Wars had some of the chat capabilities of EVE, it would be awesome.


The channels are as follows, Rookie Help, Local, Corperation, Recruitment, and a channel I made (Also called Recruitment, but yea.). You can join/create an infinite amount of channels that can have an infinite number of people in them, as Rookie Help had 2321 people at the time. You can downsize the chat:

and turn it translucent. The top of the char bars flash white when there is new text in it, as local is doing. You can even split off the chat channels so you can view more then one at a time.

All of the chats except Local were global, so it was easy to meet up with people. Rookie Help also had Moderators and Administrators in it at almost all times.

I understand what you are saying, but GWs pvp is to complex and deep to be played effeciently without it.

not having it with a group is like guessing since a major part of winning in this game is bringing in the right skills. but maybe that has just more to do with luck than skill...

Remove this thread please! Its filled with so much nonsense that it gets out of control.
The communications in game could be improved but thats not a high priority thing.
The game is not dying at all and the community is very strong.

I think some one needs to realize an FPS is not an RPG.

They can't otherwise they could fix it so that they and they alone would win the $100.000 GWWC prize money.They would have to disqualify themselves in this way and Gaile travels the world where ever it is so she wouldn't be able to and Alex work for NCSoft so that counts him out.They are to busy developing future chapters.

Where would they be on the ladder if they did play GvG and had to disqualify themselves?What is their Guild Name and tags?

in game voice communication may not be as good a thing as everyone thinks:

If you think 12 year old kids are bad when spamming racist remarks on the chat, imgaine if they had voice com and if they found out that you are a girl....

Though some may aruge that you can just turn it off with options but then again players may be baised toward those that wont use voice com and refuse to party thinking they are bots or those who dont speak English.

Implementation itself will raise some problem while solving little mostly for the PvP component who are using TS/vent anyways.

Other than the issue i spoke of above, i agree mostly with what the OP and others mentions in this thread.

Are you actually serious or playing ignorant? Check the list of disqualified guilds:http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...ibleguilds.php

The majority of devs are in Pick Up Group, and you can search to figure that out over at TGH. I honestly don't know how you use TGH without retaining this type of information. :\

They could have a son or daughter playing in those guilds and where over at TGH hmm?If they play the game then why is it so flawed unlike it was in beta?I just read a little in outpost now as I do most of my posting here as I don't PvP that much and TGH is more of a PvP board.

Bingo.

Go to TGH later on and use the search function to find threads about the dev's guild. What the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO do you think the giant controversy was about Te guesting in PuG with DEVS? EP wanted to get them disqualified, and soon after the tournament rules were clarified. >.> I guess I should stop expecting anything PvP related to get through to either you or sorudo (LOL >.> I kid about him; I gave up long ago.).

For all it matters, make a thread asking about the dev's guild. I'm sure you'll get more replies than needed.

ROFL not many blizzard fans?, where have been the last 5 years? Oh, and check mmorpg.com and see where gw is ranked.

HAVE A NICE DAY

Voice chat not existing in gw is fine with me.

Kill trade spam and the people that do it for 6 hours a day.

Odd... it sounds awfully like my experience when I played WoW

and yet most people say this is not an RPG... Because the game has nothing about it that says role playing.


You got;

1)a bad story. obviously put together in the last 5 minutters. you already know whats the story with chapter 4,5,6,7,8,9,127 and so on... of course its about a mad god/spirit/emperor/dude/guy/women who has a magic artifact/world stone/mana tap/sword/spear/jester/etc and you are the hero who has to stop this evil. a good story is what defines an RPG.

2)very underwhelmed role playing elements. like neverwinter nights and oblivion and wow style role playing? like sitting around the Inn having a few virtual pints with your mates? sorry not gonna happen her. keep screaming LFG.

3)kill kill kill... no crafting or other elements to help diversity in the game.

so in the end GW is a 3 person action game with stats. and thats all there is to it.

To the opp:

Communication has a high priority in teams, I agree. Its vital to know your role and communicate with others to make the team a streamlined killing machine. That is: for elite teams!

Consider this:
Most of us come home from work or school at the end of the day. We had to communicate all of the time. Than we like to play a game for one or two hours, sometimes longer, just to have some fun. So we get online and go our own way, meanwhile chatting a bit about our experiences. What most of us dont want is:

-having to justify what we do
-follow a leader
-to work in a team
-obligations (including teamspeak)

Its all ok as long as its for fun and no one complains about failure.That's why there is such a big difference in the community between them who seriously want to be the best in PvP and those (and I think that's a vast majjority) who occassionaly play the game to spend some hours away from office/school/family...

The real problem is not the communication. The real problem is the attitude. But its only a problem for those who want to be successful all the time

If the child is being exposed to something that the parents do not approve of, then the game needs to be yanked from them anyhow.

then they have to make it less group oriented and more solo in pvp and pve. no one likes to only be succesful because you have to play with a bunch of others...

you cant win HoH without a group.. you cant win the game without a group(or henchies).

The fact that GW is one big world has something to do with it. Other games have daily server averages of 3,000-5,000 people, respectively. So if you're always an ass, or are always being a bad team player it'll get around. GW pretty much has everyone (from the same regions) in one place, so it doesn't mean swuat if you leave a group, don't try, or don't make the extra effort to communicate because 99.9% of the time you'll never see that person ever again anyways. Thus GW has soem definite social problems...

I really don't understand the whole age argument either, PG-13 movies have cursing, violence, the whole package...so why is the argument always made parents would get mad about those types of things in a 13+ up (was 18+ game). I know there's differences between movie ratings and game ratings, but it's a bit unrealistic to think parents would get made about a bit of cursing when you see 13 year olds in R-rated movies all the time...