Should GW change it's combat system?

Has anyone tried the recently released demo of the game Dark Messiah? It's based on the card game universe, might and magic, which also serves inspiration for GW, I belive.


For a long time there has been debates weather GWs combat system was truly skill based.

But in dark messiah they have found a way to create a melee / spellcaster system which is totally real time and yet deep and complex. Its very fun to play. You can grab the demo at fileplanet.com or watch this gameplay video here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8bDlrV7yrI


But my question is - Would you like to see such a true skill based for GW? Dark Messiah has 32 player online, so it can be done even tho I would imagine that there would be some lag.

But the thought of having to parry and dodge and attack in real time is really cool and appealing. I wish I could do that in GW. It would certainly be more dynamic than the current forced auto attack system where you can't control your swings dynamicly.

After Oblivion I thought that a real time melee combat system was not possible but it really works in this game, and it surprises me that its just not just hack and slash, but actually deep and complex.


It would be a major overhoul if GW should get such a thing developed. It would be cool though...

It would be a different game.

If they do, I'm gone. I've seen it ruin other existing games. It ticks of the vast majority of players that have time in. Sorry just being honest.

Lawnmower....just...stop...posting...today

Lawnmover, don't you like GW?
With all the Ides you have posted lately, why don't you develope your own game. It seams like all you want to do is change someone elses creation to suit you. The developers have there own Ideas concerning GW and they are following them. With your imagination you should be a shoe in as a game developer, BUT GO DEVELOP A NEW GAME, DON'T TRY TO CHANGE MY GAME EXPERIANCE.

Let's all give Lawnmower a hug.

Everyone, hug Lawnmower.

GW as a FPS-type? No thanks. If you like that system so much, then buy *that* game.

I wish you could use the terrain to your advantage in PvE

o but u can!

You can to some extent, you can hide behinde corners and such from projectiles,(arrows, thrown daggers etc), you can reach further with ranged attacks if you are elevated from the target

You can sort of but in Dark Messiah he was able to light his arrows on fire and sneak up on his enemy.

One game springs to mind, Star Wars Galaxies, dispite not playing it, hearing from a large amount of players though it seems SOE ruined the game by adding far too many drastic changes to the game, that it did infact change the way the whole game worked, it was no longer what people had brought, but rather... a different game.

I feel the same would happen if GW was given a new combat system, it just wouldn't be suited.

Nice ideas and thoughts.. but at the end of the day, we're playing Guild Wars and I can't see many combat features being changed, if so they'll only be minor.

lol that movie is funny. like when your character kicks that skeleton guy, it goes like 10 feet through the fence.

but isnt it?

the rpg elements where you put points into your character works similiar in dark messiah.



most people would argue that GW is not an RPG due to low empathy on story, and high empathy on killing with fast paced action.

only thing is that you can argue if it really takes skill to auto attack.

in other online RPGs you sometimes have to run after a Kting target. In GW its very fixated for example.

thats just one analogy though.



SWGs combat redesign was of course crap. but near its ending everything in SWG got destroyed.

another good example of an action RPG game that utilises its combat to the fulliest is fable. I liked how that as you used your sword in combat your characters arm would actually in a dynamic way grow more dense and muscler.


this hole thread made me think about if GW actually takes skill or if its a very big guessing competition of luck where you just bring the skills the other guys couldnt counter. so if guessing is = skill, then GW takes skill?

Not that there is anything wrong with a game that does not take skill. simply thought it was worthy of observation, hehe

Skill > Guessing

Guild Wars = perfectly okay and innotative (howerever you spell that word) battle system. No need to change

The end

They should change the combat system to be like where instead of using a skill you throw out a Pokemon that has that skill. And it's turn based. Well no wait that should be 1 out of the 3 matches.

Then match 2 has to be like a fighting game, maybe something like DOA so it's easily accessible to n00b buttonmashers but still the real pros will win every time.

Match 3 is pong. This is a tiebreaker round since it's best 2 out of 3.

---
GW takes skill; what you are talking about when it comes to "guessing" should IMO be looked at with the point-of-view of "my build has to be able to take on as many others that I expect to run into as possible." Thus, both well-roundedness and a good assessment of your potential competition are needed, and both require some level of skill/experience with GW.

change the combat system? I don't think so. I like to click and attack!

Why do you insist on making suggestions to change GW into other games? GW isnt other games and if they ever changed it like this (or your level idea) then I'm sure ANET would lose tons of people who just wanted to play this game.

This will require a total rewrite of the engine and rewriting all the skills and changing all the controls. Seriously, guild wars is a strategic team game with an emphasis on the overall strategy and build of your team. If you think it's all a big guessing competition I'm guessing you haven't even spectated high end pvp matches... Twitch reflexes and enviromental battle is very well suited for a single player game, but you got to put things into perspective and look at games for what they are instead of trying to change every single fundamental dynamic...

is scrimmage the only kind of pvp u ever done in GW?

and about dark messiah, i hate the fact that i have to play an FPS to see rest of the story of an strategy game that i loved
i hate FPS but i really want to see what will happen to that F***ing queen and her son (dark messiah)! couldnt they just make another strategy game?

your dodging the question.

answer this; do you consider sandwhich combat to be 1337 based?

because we all know it aint. im just saying it because its foolish when a few guilds go out and play all die and then think they are the shizzle.



anyone remember the jedi knight games? they had an interesting take on melee combat, even though they where mostly just straight forward action games.


it really just makes me think... as a warrior, why does the game mechanics automaticly make me run after people I want to kill? why dont i target and run after them myself and try to get them within range? that in concept does not need to have anything to do with reflexes or twich, but just increasing intensity.



Also, I think that change is good. Change is always good. It's always good to think new ways and see things from other perspectives. Thats probably the key to making a great game.

While the video looks interesting, it's preposterous to even think about switching the current system to that. Might as well change the combat system to armwrestling.

Change is good, but your not on the dev team here, so all your threads here lately are a waist of time since they don't add anything to the game but changes it in to a game thats allredy out there under a nother name, I guess all the games you are refering to are ether pay to play or single player games so you want the 1 time fee online game to morph in to all the games you like so you don't have to pay monthly fee's for them all.

Not going to happen

Hmm well that's pretty hostile :-/ I think it's worthwhile to discuss what sorts of "incarnations" Guild Wars could hypothetically take and still be fun to play. I frequently think of just how awesome it would be to remake Morrowind using Oblivion's construction set but make the combat be Ninja Gaiden (Xbox) style. Different game, sure. But awesome, and definitely just as worth "discussing" as the 100th "why do peeps hate Mesmers so much" thread.

You're not making any sense. I don't concider it to be "1337" based, I concider it to be a question of skill and careful concideration of the metagame when making a build. Most people run balanced (and therefore adaptive) builds anyway. Say, if you think it's all a guessing game, why are there always mostly the same guilds who end up in the top 10? There's lots of skill in things that isn't based on a fps engine. Movement, target selection, interrupts (which are somewhat based on a twitch reflex as you deem 1337), placement, priorities, splitting, holding until VoD and so on. In addition to actually knowing to play your class. Even someone who isn't in a top guild can see that (read: me). Also see: Chess, RTS-games, poker and just about every other game in the world.



Changing all the major game mechanics by shoehorning it into something the engine isn't designed for after release is a great way to be hated by people. Also see: SoE, SWG.

Yeha it's really likely that the game mechanics in an EXISTING game suddenly gets changed, happens all the time....

NO! If you want to play a game with a different combat system theres the door. I dont know how many of you played Star Wars Galaxies before and after they changed the core combat system (twice!) Speaking from being in that freakin fiasco changing the combat system is a very very bad thing.

/agree

You want it to be like Dark Messiah? Buy Dark Messiah and stop trying to ruin GW

hehe i like 1,2,3 spike

clicking ftw

lawnmower..you have some good ideas in theory but in practice...

But he want's it to be like GW, no monthly fee's

made my day

The combat is fine. What they need to change are animations of each professions. They need to be more animated like the Rits when casting spells for examples. Would love to see stuff like that.

Gw is what IT is.

Dark Messiah is what IT is.

Why not say Dark Messiah should change into a turn based system?

Get my point? People that want a fsp go out and look for one...not change the current game they are playing.

I am a SWG refugee. I would not like for that to happen to me agian. If SWG didnt change I would still be playing that now.

Anet is too smart to do what soe did.........................I hope.

I post simply:
I play Guild Wars to play Guild Wars, it doesn't need to be anything else.

lawnmower go back outside and mow the lawn... it looks like its getting too high again.

cool game, gw shouldnt try anything ill go play that game

Many players copy builds from low rank guild matches and successful HoH teams. Yet I see lots of these copiers to lose very badly, even theoretically they should own just like those in observe matches. Right build is not enough. You must know how to play with them. If that is not skill then what is?

Wait... Then why do you people try to argue that GW contains some of this stuff where you can hide behind line of sight?

What I asked you was that if you thought that sandwhich combat is 1337?

Because when I click on a ele that runs away with my melee warrior, he automaticly runs after you the ele until he catches up. im asking where is the skill in that? Is that not babysitting the players so much that you take away all skill and only leave the guessing and the luck factor back... "boy i hope i by accident picked some skills that the other guy cant counter".

We all know that you can't forsee what other people have in terms of skills. so how can there be ANYTHING BUT luck that gives you the edge in pvp?




Read the thread. I already dismissed SWG as a bad example. SOE is completely retarded. there is no way around that.





So because im not on the dev team... all suggestions and things we discuss are a "waste of time" since they dont add anything to the game?

You don't honestly belive that. then what is the point of these forums then? So when gailie and strain say that they actually care about user feedback and other peoples feelings about the game, you think they just say it for a good laugh?
Come on... of course im not on the dev team or expect this to get implanted, but I still think it's worthy of discussion.


Why? Because so many games lately have gone into the real time territory in the MMOG space. Dungeons and Dragons which is very similiar to GW is like that. another is is age of conan that is on the way.



Im just trying to think outside the box. I dont expect or desire these changes even though I think some of the innovative elements of dark messiah are really cool. particuarly the response from people who say that the online pvp is incredible deep and complex.

it's funny because its true. as you say... click click click.. and yet the game is very deep because that parry(right mouse button) is exactly as usefull as attacking. its very uniqe. I like it.

and since its where Strain, O'brian and the guys got there inspiration from, then who knows?



Yeah I think combat is fine too I guess the only thing I really wish was different was that players had to run to a target instead of just tab+space all the time. I don't see the skill in that. if people actually had to run for their targets in the heat of battle it would be more fun.

But I like the Rits animation...? They make some cool rolls and stuff. moving like a snake... I do kinda agree that many of them look incredible similiar. like the spirits. I dont play one but they always seem to be that greenish color with long chains.


I wish that mages reign of fireballs looked cooler... but most of all I am sad that melee combat(swords, dagger, hammer, axe) looks so lame they could be more creative on that department


luck?

maybe it IS skill. Who knows... im not that into pvp. That is only my observation. As a mostly spectator it all just looks very dry and the same. so when you see a team in the preview event full of deverish climbing up the best-in-the-world ladder, with their overpowered proffesion I think alot of people just shake their heads.

Is it not possible that there are simply such an overwhelming amount of skills that no people have any idea if its unbalanced or not? there is simply to many factors and to much to take into consideration that goes on, that its impossible to say if its just as unbalanced as swg or skill based as AC?

I think the gw combat system works generally wel, for its type.
In fact I have yet to see a better combat system within this category of mmorpgs.

Since you posted dark messiah...
If your looking for something, with strategy as main, and skill as second, still be real time with all that funky stuff. Savage 2