New Race, New Core

actionjack

actionjack

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Kali

W/E

This idea was brought up again in the "No more New Proff" thread, and I want to hear a general opinion of it. Anyhow, it goes like this...

In the future chapter, as new profession for every new chapter will start over crowd the whole thing, it would seem feastible to have a chapter where player can play as a new race, with its own core profession. That means this new race will NOT be able to play as a warrior, instead have its own Warrior-like class (which the humans can not access to).

This keep the freshness of playing as new race and new profession, while keeping the human class cleaner. Also it make it easier for balancing (As it is new), and enable the racial difference with out making it cookie-cutting. (meaning you would not see all Warrior Orc, but just that Orc Warrior-type will be less tanker-ish and more attacker-ish)

Some possible "Alternative" core class might be:
  • Warrior - Fencer - Berserker - Defender
  • Elementalist - Maji - Astral Mage - Sage
  • Ranger - Hawker - Stalker - Hunter
  • Mesmer - Mimic - Jester - Psionic
  • Necromancer - Warlock - Deathdealer - Witcher
  • Monk - Priest - Healer - Druid

So, do you think a future chapter with such system will be feastible and popular?

Fearful Bab3

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

Ball of Solid Steel [boSs]

Mo/W

/Signed Yes a good idea mate im up for it

Opeth11

Opeth11

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Richmond, British Columbia, Kanada

Demon of the Fall [Opet]

Mo/Me

I want a berserker and a druid.

xiaotsu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Doomlore Shrine

Just Us Gamers [JUGs]

R/

/notsigned

Please stop suggesting new races, this isn't your run-of-the-mill rpg, it's trying to be unique here...

legion_rat

legion_rat

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

668 the neighbor of the beast

TFK

A/

suggest new races. I dont care either way if there are or are not new races. But there are people who would love to be orc,elves or hobbits. It doesnt change the game that much, and I think this is a good way to stop them from stamping out the cookie chars.





I want to see a skaven (warhammer) type race if we get new ones.

~the R/N Rat~

*just cause*

Terra Xin

Terra Xin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2006

New Zealand

Me/R

Introducing a more indepth concept of "Race" aside from just the looks of the character would be nice.

wilson

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

aggro bubble

[RD];[FW];[GOTS];[baed];[kiSu]

i would not like to see new races for player characters, but thats probably because i only play humans in rpg's. and i never liked when my new hero could not chose the profession i wanted because i chose the wrong race. oddly enough, that's what turned me away from WoW among other things. with it's "bazillion" choices, i never really understood why i could not have a human ranger?

Viper1769

Viper1769

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

Australia

Born Supremacy

R/Me

/not signed
i dont want to see new races either .... i like the idea of EVERY one being HUMAN

unholy guardian

unholy guardian

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Lost Haven

A/Mo

i don't really mind either way, i probably wouldn't use it but i can imagine people would.

Also i like your avatar wilson lol

Beelzebuddy

Beelzebuddy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

/notsigned, not because of races but because I wouldn't like to see a set of new core classes that are identical to the old ones except for incompatible skills. If we're going to be given new core classes make them new, please.

actionjack

actionjack

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Kali

W/E

NOTE: Thsi thread is not really about suggesting a new race, but how would a new race (no matter what kind) could be added.

There seem to be alot of people who want new race. I myself hated before, but I think it is a good choice in the future, if GW can reach to 5th or 6th chapter. As said, it is not just to add a new race, but also to add new class with out over burdan the exsiting ones.

Personally, I also don't like how many other MMO and RPG had their Racial Bonuse and what not. All Orc be be warrior and all elf be ranger. Therefore, I see two way of adding new race... 1) give them Racial Attributes and certain Racial skills (so you do have to points into your racial attribute to feel the benefit), but that is what is suggested here, and 2) Their Own Core Class.

The new Core would not be the exit copy of the old one, but rather just similar. You would break down each old Core claass down to their function, and re-configure them. So say a Fencer (Warrior-counterpart), would have melee attack power, but lack the Tanking ablity (that would given to another class), yet gain more Interupt power.

Since GW's class system offers more diversity and freedom, I think it allow you to make all kind of build depend on your proffesional combo, unlike the Strict Class Tree found in many other MMO. So people should worry less about how it would restrict your from playing certain class and what not.

Gregslot

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

when you create a class, you have to create an opposite class for the first one
like:
warrior - ranger
elementalist - mesmer
monk - necromancer
ritualist - assassin
paragon - dervish

and etc

funnyman100

funnyman100

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

USA

Silver Chain [SLVR]

N/W

/signed
I like the core class concept but every race should access all classes except that every race has its own core class comepleatly different from all other classess that only the one race could use like... (these r just examples)

Human-Fist Fighter special class
Dwarf-Warloc special class
Elf-Bard special class
(Remember these are just examples)

BahamutKaiser

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

So instead of allowing us to play new races with all the classes we have, we would be stuck playing them as a certain few. And instead of making 2 new classes, we should make 6 new core classes with an entirely original set of skills which will achieve the same purpose but take a great deal of time to develope, FOR EACH NEW RACE!

That in no way reduces the work load for creating new classes, it adds the same thing in dozens of different flavors which basicly means alot of work for nothing.

I would rather see a new class which is "inhuman" and the characters were like vampires, human vampires, but distinctly unique looking, with pointed ears and slightly noticable fangs. (as suggested in my Stalker concept)

New Races are all good, and giving us a chapter which unlocks new races to create characters with in that, and perhaps other chapters, would be a decent alternative to adding new classes. But an entirely new set of core classes for each newly introduced race is hardly reducing the work load. They either work exactly the same way as current core classes making it meaningless, or they work different making dozens of sets of original core classes to balanced with all the other classes in the game, a very very long way from an improvement.

Terra Xin

Terra Xin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2006

New Zealand

Me/R

For the sake of Anet's retainment of popularity, it would be a good idea for them to consider the possibilities of races, it is good that having 2 new specialty classes, but it will get boring eventually.

Ian Savage

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2005

Nowhere. And Everywhere. At the same time!

Born of Revolution [BoRN]

Mo/Me

i think most of the people here are missing the point. if A-Net introduces 2 new professions per chapter, and they release a chapter every 6 months, 1 of a few things are going to happen. 1. Balancing classes will eventually become near impossible, due to the sheer number of them that exist, exploits will pop up here and there. 2. They'll run out of ideas, in which case, they'll have to fall back along the lines of something like this. or, 3. they'll see the impending doom approaching, say "oh S**t, we're screwed, then revise the whole idea. yeah, the last one didnt make much sence to me either. but reasons always come in sets of 3....

The Point! Races are a way to create variety in the game without changing the balance. for instance. say for some odd reason, A-Net introduces dwarves as a playable race. dwarves will still have your happy rangers, mesmers, elementalists, monks, necros, sins, ritualists, paragons, and dervishes, but instead of the standard warrior class, you get one thats A) More focused on Axes, and B) better at dealing damage faster. however, this dwarven warrior-ish class loses some of the armor and defencive skills a human warrior would have. Its not better than the human warrior, its not superior, its just different. this lets A-Net put out things with variety that are interesting to us, the players, and they also dont have to put in an overly large amount of work, and think about super balance issues like they'd have to do if they gave racial bonuses.

i for one think that this is a solid idea with strong roots and a powerful level of practicality. ANET! HEAR OUR CRIES!

/signedwithhonors

Symbol

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

So wait, you're going to add a new race that will have a unique profession. However it still has access to most of the old professions.

Wow, so gameplay wise it's like just adding a new profession, except with almost an order of magnitude more work in terms of creating art assets.

Awesome idea!

Wait-no. It's actually horribly awful.

NeHoMaR

NeHoMaR

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

I think races will be included in the next chapter (not Nightfall but 4th one)

The reason is simple; all human races already used with 3 chapters; including Nightfall, you will be able to reproduce all races in this world, whatever your skin color and face is.

Anyway, races in this game will NOT change the stats, only the appearance. The new 2 professions in chapter 4th will be only available to the new race (as primary) similar than if you wanna be assassin you MUST be japanese/chinese face. If you want "Critical Hits" you MUST be asian race. If you want "whatever primary" you MUST be Orc! Do you see my idea? And this absolutely don't unbalance game.

Nevin

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

Rogue would sound better then Hawker.

actionjack

actionjack

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Kali

W/E

There are seveal ways of adding new races. Adding it as the pirmary for new chapter is a good way, and would save lots work. But would still run into trouble "if" more and more new proffesion are still to be added. Again, the issue of blance rise.

And No, I am not suggesting having unique core while still have access to the old human core.... they will be similar, yet not mirrior (to reflect the culture and playing style of that new race)

And last thing to say.... NeHoMaR's avatar is FREAKY....

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

First of all, to those decrying the concept of new races in Guild Wars, Jeff Strain himself said it could happen, especially as the amount of Professions grow.

If Races are just another new Profession, that doesn't change anything. It's just another FoTM, that will probably go away in a few chapters.

Another possibilty is a Race that somehow influences existing professions. (Bonuses to certain areas). That seems like it would unbalance things even more than some think actionjack's idea is. Everyone would make a Dwarf Warrior, or Elf Ranger. Bad idea.

If we go the other extreme, and make races cosmetic only, then we're talking about a very limited reason to buy that Chapter. Unless you really, really like dwarves, with no new Profession to change the game at all, that's a pretty shallow reason to buy the Chapter.

Instead, the idea of this new race having their own specialty classes is really cool. Basically, you could introduce "Dwarrows", a stone like race in Chapter 10, and have two new Professions for them: Goliaths and Guardians. Goliaths would be similar to Warriors, but different enough to warrant their existance (maybe no weapons, but instead relying on using their stone fists to crush and a grapple their opponents). Guardians could be like battle monks, maybe specializing more in damage buffs and protection than healing.

(These are just some quick ideas, please don't flame the race idea based on these examples!)

Existing characters could take these Profs as secondary, but only Dwarrow could take them as Primary. The next Chapter could introduce a new race, or introduce more Professions for the Dwarrow. (Or, Chapter 10 could introduce six new professions at once, although I think that might be overkill. Still, there's no reason to introduce only 2 professions...)


NOTE: Dwarrow are what Tolkien thought about calling Dwarves, please don't think I thought of the name! Also, a stone race is nothing new, but I think it would be cool to have a different race from the typical dwarf, elf, halfling, etc.

BahamutKaiser

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

Just because they add purely cosmetic alternate races doesn't mean they don't have to add new proffessions in a chapter, although something besides new proffessions is welcome.

I think new races would best be added in an expansion or a small add on bought from the shop. It would only cost a fraction of what a chapter cost, and allow you to create certain races in certain chapters with some of the classes. The armor selection may end up limited to a few crafters, and they could add just a few quests related to them, but it wouldn't be a chapter that needs to have all other manner of addition.

Character slots are being sold for 10 dollars right? So how about a Tengu expansion for Factions which allows you to make Tengu Characters, access a few new quests and there would be a few different armors for them (perhaps only 3), and a character slot as well, how about 15 dollars. Dwarfs for Prophecies, Whatever for other chapters. Char in one, Dredge in the next, please don't let people make Gnawl characters, they are sooo lame.

As for making new races with their own classes, I thought the idea of creatures with totaly seperate skills would be better. Like Dragons and Kirins, maybe even something like Juggernauts. They could have their own skills and attributes and not be combinable with other classes, it would allow us to play as characters outside of the conventional humanoids and Class selection, and not interfere with further class combinations since it cannot be combine. This has even less balanced difficulty because their skills do not need to be balanced with class combinations, and it introduces vastly original characters to play with that look and act much different.

LiamR

LiamR

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Prefer Unlight Beer [PuB]

nooooo

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

Character slots are being sold for 10 dollars right? So how about a Tengu expansion for Factions which allows you to make Tengu Characters, access a few new quests and there would be a few different armors for them (perhaps only 3), and a character slot as well, how about 15 dollars.
For the sake of Guild Wars, never suggest such a thing again. I don't mind paying money for extra characters or storage, but to pay money for content? That's going too far.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser
As for making new races with their own classes, I thought the idea of creatures with totaly seperate skills would be better. Like Dragons and Kirins, maybe even something like Juggernauts. They could have their own skills and attributes and not be combinable with other classes, it would allow us to play as characters outside of the conventional humanoids and Class selection, and not interfere with further class combinations since it cannot be combine. This has even less balanced difficulty because their skills do not need to be balanced with class combinations, and it introduces vastly original characters to play with that look and act much different.
Interesting idea, but balancing is more than just balancing class combos. You also need to balance with existing classes. Either these new Monster Professions could be unbalanced by being too powerful, or not powerful enough (by not having access to secondary powers, you have to buff exisiting Attibute lines to cover without making them too powerful, which is difficult considering they'd probably only have 4 attribute lines to work from, as opposed to 7.

pharaos

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

N/Me

well the best way to introduce new races is that guild wars becomes mmorpg and not to be corpg(like now) because if u add new races u must add new proffesions that are going to be similar like humans proffesions but it also need to be different caus what's the point of buying that capter only that you can play as orc, elf or dwarf and they are different from humans only for their look ????

i think the best solution is to gave them racial attributes, that would "refresh" this game and it u would have more options to play.

i dont think that introducing new races in corpg guild wars would be a good idea, but when and if gw becomes mmorpg it will be necessary to introduce new races to gw.

actionjack

actionjack

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Kali

W/E

If new race were added (either as cosmetic or with its own racial bonues, or as its own primary classes), it might still run into problems of blancing the game with overcrowding classes (of couse, that is also assuming new class will still be out with each chapter, and GW does last long enough). More so, it leave more chance that we see more Clone classes, and lack of flexablity to re-invent old attributes.

To some point I agree with the problem presented in the "No MOre New class" thread, yet still hold to my ground of that new class are needed to freshness and attracting player. Thus resulted in this. (althought this idea was conceived some long time ago already...)


Quote:
For the sake of Guild Wars, never suggest such a thing again. I don't mind paying money for extra characters or storage, but to pay money for content? That's going too far.
Uh.. you might not want to see my older thread about pay expansion than.... Although I do like Honpan....

The Last Windseeker

The Last Windseeker

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

I like the idea of new races and possible unique professions that come with them. This would add some variety to the game.

pharaos

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

N/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
For the sake of Guild Wars, never suggest such a thing again. I don't mind paying money for extra characters or storage, but to pay money for content? That's going too far.
i'd rather pay monthly for a gw to get as much as content that wow has. when u calculate u pay for gw every 6 months 50 $ and u got a content that is not 1/4 content of lineage 2, wow and other mmorpg-s

BahamutKaiser

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Interesting idea, but balancing is more than just balancing class combos. You also need to balance with existing classes. Either these new Monster Professions could be unbalanced by being too powerful, or not powerful enough (by not having access to secondary powers, you have to buff exisiting Attibute lines to cover without making them too powerful, which is difficult considering they'd probably only have 4 attribute lines to work from, as opposed to 7.
All Hail Captaiiiiiin Obvioooouuuus.

Of course you would need to balance them with other classes, but because it doesn't have an class combinations, the number of skill combinations is exponetially fewer, making it exponetially easier to balance. And since Assassin isn't quite balanced and equal to other classes, I am not so concerned about how balanced it is, OBVIOUSLY they will nerf anything that makes it too powerful to play a fair match.

Pjstaab

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/Mo

Isnt wow here people.

rong626

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2006

hell

Woot

P/W

New races.....tyrian,canthan,elonian....each differnt race gives u differnt skills and armor so who's complaining?Each differnt race has their own City which have armorer weaponary etc etc.If ur race goto ur own city u get slightly cheaper stuff from merchant.If ur a differnt race and u goto another race's city u get the game price

-Loki-

-Loki-

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by actionjack
NOTE: Thsi thread is not really about suggesting a new race, but how would a new race (no matter what kind) could be added.
Easy. Visual/Animation differences, no stat changes.

Dirty Sticks

Dirty Sticks

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

The Black Nights[BK]

W/R

good idea but i wouldnt' buy into it....remember your playin GW not WoW...

/notsigned

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

i think its a good idea, at the end of the day GW does have to compete with the most popular online game (WoW) and the only way to do that is keep the game interesting and up to date.

Im all up for GW trying to be unique but it has to stay competitve in the market to make it a success and to keep making a profit. There will be other games to compete with soon and in the future.

mega_jamie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

UK

Warlords of Ruin

A/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by xiaotsu
/notsigned

Please stop suggesting new races, this isn't your run-of-the-mill rpg, it's trying to be unique here...
The game already has several races to choose from, all of which already sometimes call their classes different things depending on their role, so what if in Ch4 they decided that since we had a Tengu ally in Ch2, we can play as Tengu, but they use some of the OP's suggestions.

This way you maintain the number of core professions compared to the number of niche professions, while still offering a slightly different play style.

Vermilion Okeanos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

One problem with new race is... You still need to attract majority of the male audience (sorry ladies, but men are the majority ).

People won't exactly pick up a game with the cover being a female frog showing off its leg etc.

Hence, you see many games with different races almost practically must have elves, as elves are quite human-like.

Anyway, kind of pointless for me to post all these... but I got nothing better to do.

actionjack

actionjack

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Kali

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos
People won't exactly pick up a game with the cover being a female frog showing off its leg etc.
Anyhow, race is a standard in most Fantasy theme, and for one reason or another, people want to play them. As much as I like the orginality of human only world of GW (lots of my earlier post are against new race along side of humans), adding new race as not the main issue here. The main concern I was trying to address is the possible overcrowdness of Proffession in the later chapter, and the need to bring a fresh new attraction to market to the player. New race, with it new core of 6 proffessions, seem like a good option.

Don Zardeone

Don Zardeone

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Why not just keep it simple an djust add new races with the same skills, same professions but with different models?

Tengu are a possibility afaik. Dwarves, the shiverpeaks are full of em. Maybe some mursaat. Charr would be interesting too. All the other monster races I've seen so far aren't that technologically advanced to have warriors, rangers, mesmers etc with their own armours, history, trading ability. Well, maybe the naga, dredge and wardens can come too.

Just have those races but keep stats and stuff the same otherwise you'll end up with too much crap to balance.

Other example:
I'm going to need to make a new warrior sooner or later. I'm running out of storage space, so are many others too. Having full equipment for hammer, axe AND sword, together with str AND tactics shields aswell as several partial armoursets. 1 character's storagespace isn't enough. So sooner or later I might make a swordwarrior, then a hammerwarrior. If I could make a tengu swordsman and a warden hammerer, would be nice...


...but not needed X.x

Maellus

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

How about weapons and etc that give bonuses for certain races such as +15% damage (dwarf)?

Horseman Of War

Horseman Of War

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

The Cult of Doom

P/

/notsigned


sorry- i like guild wars because its NOT like other rpgs. If you add elves dwarves and crap like that, it would destroy the essence of the true metagame.

As said above- this isnt wow.. and thank christ for that. If a chapter has new races, I wont buy it- and it would turn me away from the game... ESPECIALLY if the new races got bonuses or balancing attributes- that would be totally lame to the extreme. Ppl complain enough about balance as it is.


/notsigned