EoE Nerfed

15 minutes is very rare. No where in my post did I ever say 15 minutes was normal. I remember 1 time we had to wait 8 minutes for 2 teams on the left side to finish each other off. Halls is either extremely short or extremely long.

MATH runs IWAY and they are very good with it. If a member from that team is telling you how to counter EoE they know from experience. I know the counters myself because of experience. Saying that heal party is not a counter shows that you don't know what you are talking about. While their team is getting pressured from eoe your team is still alive while the heal parties are being pumped.

Yes bano had a sick holding build. This was back when necro spike first came back into the mainstream. It was a modded blood spike that we called the putrid build. I know my job and did it well. We did face very good teams including math, doppleganger, alice in wonderland, ect......

Once symbiosis and fertile dropped you were not going to kill the ghost. Got to halls very quickly. EoE was never a problem to us. We would simply get in range and do a vamp gaze spike spirit gone.

This change to EoE really makes blood spike that much stronger in HA. IWAY is really unaffected it doesn't take anything for a war to deal 40-50 dmg to everyone meeting the 90% requirment. Blood spike does very well vs pressure. Most of the time you have 1-2 people with any dmg at all. So when the EoE does go off its not going to affect majority of the party at all.

Sign Once AGAIN a bunch of idiot pvp exploiters ruin the game for the majority pvers. GW is slowly being nerfed to hell beacuse of pvp just like star wars galaxies was. Why don't anet just seperate pvp and pve and be done with it. And before you say they have. I mean totaly so that they can nerf pvp to hell and it won't effect pve.

Thats right it is rare because it never happens as it is not even possible. Every Halls match is exactly the same amount of time! Right now it is 4 minutes with 3 teams and a few months ago it was 10 minutes. There is a countdown timer, there is no 15 minute matches or 5 minute ones either, anyone who has been there more than twice would know that or anyone who actually watched observer mode for that matter. Go watch observer mode right now and see how the timer works if you can spare your time from griefing.

The very fact you try to flaunt your superior PvP knowledge but dont know even a basic game mechanic like how long the matches proves how little knowledge you have about the topic and undermines any claim you make. Too late to edit all your posts now cause you've carried on about it for so long now. You also ignore the fact that no one was complaining about EoE in halls or wanted ideas how to beat it.

Next time you want to sound like you know something about PvP, try playing it within the last few months.

Umm... Spirit Walk? or perhaps Consume Soul, Heal Party and EoE killer rolled into one!

No where did I say that was in the halls map when that happened.

Read the post and stop commenting on things I'm not saying.

Well if you werent talking about Halls then that is much worse since that is what this discussion is all about. Checkmate.

emhh there is a match EVER 6 minute not 7,8,9,15 6.

its the same as ever 24 hour start a new day. it dont change

it may happen there not a team who can join(happen to me one time) in that case the the timer are restarted and in 6 minute a new one will start(or 12 with old Hoh)

[/QUOTE]

Perfect is in iA a very good guild and they have far more experience then tomcruiser in countering EoE bomb.

and i myself i can tell when my guild are holding ever time we pay very attention to EoE bomb we send a warrior or ele to kill it or we try to interupt it.
n
Its easy say interupt it , kill it, its harder when you have 4 angry iway warrior and load of traps. then bum

we faced pre iA teams (led by Monkey Meow) and early iA guild when our IWAY was still with 2 resolve trappers. looks like that iA dude is whining about / cant get over with EoE bombs because their main form of offense (back then) was spiking. so prolly they needed to call 3-2-1 spike to take down spirits.


that was old times tho. nothing against iA (they had good rspike going and they are now doing well) but i think 1 of their members is just overreacting (prolly of joy)

and just watch observer mode with iway teams in it and youll figure out ways to counter problems.

Theory crafting is easy,i can list hundreds of skill that can destory or counter EoE, but too bad, none of those really work on a decent EoE bomber.

A decent EoE bomber would and should not plant the spirit at lshadow step range.

A decent EoE bomb team will have several obstacle between enemy and the spirit.

A decent EoE bomber will have skills that help recasting the spirit in a very short time, incase it got interupt destroyed if the bomb didnt get off.

The what so called counter is a joke, kill it, sure, killing it is easy, but you will find out that another EoE is up when you finish locating the EoE as well as getting to it and killing it.

Interupt the Bomber, as people already mentioned, they can just replant the spirit in a short time.

And i think someone mentioned backfire(maybe my imagination) in early post, but im sorry, i have to laugh, ritual is not a spell, putting backfire on any spirit spammer is not going to work.

damn no more EoE bomb to just have some fun in a non fun game anymore

I don't understand this mentality. If it's so unfun to you, then don't play? If your life is just so absolutely boring and uneventful that you sit around all day and play a game that you don't even have fun playing, then you've got bigger problems than Anet fixing EoE.

It's called frustration. Obviously GW is still a fun game to the guy, but he's getting frustrated with all the nerfs. Maybe he ran EoE a lot, so them nerfing it was a big hit for him.

You don't know the guy, don't make rude comments or make random assumptions.

Quoted again, bolded this time:
If it really is "non fun", then he shouldn't play anymore, nor should he sit here and whine like the countless other people. Roll with the changes, develop new builds. Just don't sit around and complain about something that you can't control.

If he really is just frustrated, then he shouldn't say it's not fun, when that's not what he really means.

Many pvp players are having less fun right now. New content and still only 64 skills to bring will make the game paper rock scissors. No competative game wants that.

As for pve the only thing this game has going for it is the no monthly subscription to play the chapters you have bought. If you buy every chapter you end up paying a little less than WoW. Keep in mind that right now GW has the market cornered with the no montly fee. What's going to happen when they get some competition that offers a superior pve experience?

All that will be left is the hardcore pvp players that need to upgrade to the next chapter to remain competative. That will not be enough to support the game. GW has dug itself a hole. Nightfalls will be the deciding factor if the game continues.

The best thing they could do for this game is seperate pvp and pve or follow MTG format types. This game will sink itself at its current rate.

I agree completely. Oddly, this same way of thinking was said pre-Factions by a great many players and to this day is puzzling to many why Anet can't see this.
I understand having a business to run, but if your customer base is saying "Don't do this, because we don't like it and it will fail", it's not the players "knowing" the business, it's them saying "We don't like this and we will be looking for something else to play if you keep it up".
Take all the nerfs that keep hitting PvE. Did anyone else here play Asheron's Call 2? After countless nerfs, the game became a ghost yard. Besides the technical issues the game had, it was simply killed by nerfs, not poor game play or poor content. Guild Wars Factions is dealing with poor content and now slamming the PvE with un-needed nerfs. Ticking off your player base is not a wise business move; especially before you launch a new Chapter.
EoE could have been fixed or actually balanced. Instead, it's now broken and nearly useless unless on a gimick cookie cutter build.

So you can't like kill half a radar range of grawls in seconds anymore? Cry me a river. So tell me what has changed in pve besides grawl farming. Oh and btw, there is a reason they balance on pvp. In pve you are fighting against static challenge and so regardless of nerfs, you always have options, you always have tons of builds capable of overcoming the challenge. In pvp, if something is strong it will be played all the time and there will be one build. If anet never nerfed anything we would still be playing spirit spam teams.

EoE was a two-edged weapon, now it's an another useless skill. The description has nothing to do with the name "Edge of Extinction".
I never did grawl bombing or something like that, but now i can't even try it.

Are you seriously, honestly, saying that more choice in PvP = less fun?

IWAY = Fun.
All other = Not Fun.

That's the game to you?

Twicky, you've already proven that you don't have a clue about PvP and shouldn't comment on that. Now you're proving that you don't have a clue about PvE and shouldn't comment on that.

Just shut up and stop embarrassing yourself. Seriously.

More choice in the game will turn it into rock paper scissors. That means that you cannot prepare for everything you will run into with 64 skills. You'll enter a match see that its a build you cannot beat. /resign

Go back in. Its going to become a game of what build you are running rather than player's skills.

Believe me I like choices too but when you can choose from anything that is available in GW this is not going to be a fun game. Image if MTG would allow Power 9 in T2. It would complete destroy any fun in the T2 format. Everyone would have to run Power 9 or lose.

They need to start restricting what skills you can use and have different formats like MTG does. If you restrict what skills can be used in this type of format play then the game goes back to player's skill rather than what build did you bring.

EoE was a band aid fix that really could have been left alone. Make it where you cannot die before the counter starts in AB and the exploit would have been fixed. EoE still works but now its very risky to use. You can wipe your entire team and some one on the other team might be ^90%. After the bomb goes off its going to be about who survived with a res sig.

[QUOTE]is not the idea of the game that you may encounter something unexpected?

that you may be beaten by somebody who comes up with the surprise i gotcha build?

were not the pvp players the ones asking no demanding more choices so it would not get boring?

put each set of restricted skills in a separate class so you know exactly what to expect and every match becomes stalemate with victory going to the first team not making a lag/error.

real exciting but at least its BORING

total idiocy compounded with ignorance

farm something else

Its fine not to agree with me. That doesn't mean its not happening.

Go listen to Weapon of choice #43 from last week. MTG had this exact same problem as GW does right now. Power 9 killed everything in the future that game could offer. No matter what they did they could never create anything more powerfull. They had to seperate the cards into different formats: T2, extended, and Extended 1.5. This wouldn't get boring because the of the 6 month release schedule. MTG releases a new set every 4 months. They would not be able to do that if the only tournament format was Extended. No one would by the new set becaue the most powerfull cards already existed.

That is sole reason why MTG has stayed around and continued to reinvent itself. If I could use power 9 in T2 it would be grossly overpowered and nothing would stand a chance from the new editions. This is also the reason we were only given a handfull of skills fron factions that were a little bit more powerful than the skills from prophocies.

They can have the a GvG format for extended where you can play any skills. A GvG format for the new chapters with the new and core skills only. This gives you a bigger range of choice while not having gross imbalances. They could also break the ladder up into different divisions. The winners from each division could then go to the live tournements.

There many improvements to the game that need to be done for pvp play to survive and be competative.

No, that would be a totally retarded competitive game. Where you are beaten at the point of entering the battle. Where you are beaten because there are so many skills that games become little more than build vs. build. It takes the depth out of the game, the tactics, the strategy. There needs to be some sort of limit to the amount of skills this game has eventually.

I'm gonna make a longer post later but so far this little quickie:

The claims that more skills will lead to a more gimmicky game are completely unsupported. So far we have no reason to believe that and any reference towards MTG in that aspect is simply irrelevant. Contrary to MTG Anet has the tools to make retro-active changes to old skillsets and has the ability to overhaul the fight system as soon as the game becomes too gimmicky. Anet has far more ability to keep balance then MTG ever had...

The guild wars universe just recently had a huge expansion in which the available skills almost got doubled. Did it lead to a more gimmicky meta-game? No, not at all. In fact, factions has given us a couple options that make balanced builds even more effective: expell hexes, empathic removal, AoD, Blessed Light are just a couple of examples off skills that are added that have strengthened the non-gimmick builds. Stating that more skills will necessary lead to more gimmicks is a completely unsupported claim. Where is the evidence??

At the moment the evidence seems to point out there will always be a good mixture between balance and gimmicks. The fact that Izzy himself does not fancy a Paper/Rock/Scissor game should be reason enough to not simply prophecise doom without any compelling arguments.

I've really had enough of all this doomsaying. People have been shouting that 'GW will be dead in two months' for more then a year now and so far GW is still going strong. I will not deny that GW suffers from a couple of problems and could use a couple off improvements, but so far none of those are related to gimmicks. I haven't been able to listen to the last WoC yet but what I gathered from discussions about it doesn't point to a significant inherent problem in GW but mostly to stuff that could be resolved with a couple improvements (higher unlock rates/tournament editions/easier groupmaking abilities/more tiered PvP, etc...)

At the moment top PvP is as vibrant as ever and possibly even more competitive then it ever was. I don't see it dying out pretty soon...

Just for the record: Henchspike, +16 beast EoE, + hall skip used to be the most fun EVAR.

No, we've just had two seasons now, one utterly dominated by triple smite and SB/RI and now the last one dominated by thumper-builds as a response to ritualists. Gimmicky builds? No way.

Saying that the previous season was dominated by triple smite and SB/RI is pretty silly. Both of them just appeared in the final 5 days of a season and both off them vanished without a huge nerf.

I will agree that thumpers were dominantly this season but it's important to realize that has nothing to do with the actual increase off skills but more with inherent problems with the ritualist class (and thumpers) that can be very easily fixed in a balance update.

When you look at it then the top teams are still able to consistently beat all these gimmicks and the claim that guild wars has evolved to 'rock, paper, scissors' is completely false. Just because there is a gimmick overpowered doesn't mean that the game has evolved into 'rock, paper, scissors'. You haven't lost the match right away when you're facing thumpers and you can perfectly beat them without investing into more hate then you would normally invest in.

The point here is simple: balanced has always stood a chance, and good balanced builds have been pulling off more wins then losses against even unbalanced gimmick builds. Every case we've known of right now of a gimmick rampaging through the ladder has been stopped by a simple balance update. Just because there are gimmick builds doesn't mean the game has been turned into 'rock, paper, scissors'. As long as that is the case the claim that more skills will lead to a 'gimmick' problem is unsupported...

The problem is Tortoise is that the balance updates happen AFTER the season is over with. Sure it won't be as powerful next season. By then we have another chapter that introduces a new class and new skills. Then we have a new season without any kind of balance update to the new skills.

After season is over the imbalances are fixed. Every single season is going to be dominated by a gimmick as long as new content is being introduced.

If they keep nerfing the game this way the new content is all that will carry it. New chapter comes out season starts. After season skills get nerfed. Have a fun season while we release the beta of the next chapter and nerf what was used during the fun season.

Sorry if I don't want to play w/e new gimmick came with the new chapters ever 6 months just to stay competative.

Honestly balance builds are going out. Mesmers are seeing less and less play. Instead rangers and warriors are being added for more pressure. Why try to shut down the monk the entire battle when you can pressure out all of his energy and roll the team. The top team balance builds you speak of are not very balanced. They run either heavy offense or heavy defense with gankers.

Yes, this stops the capping b4 the game starts in AB, I like it

Oh and I've also seen a lot of complaints that things always get nerfed because of pvp. Guess you all forgot about things like Protective Bond. You know, that thingie that made you lose only 5% of health in one hit that was used by 55 monks before prot spirit? It didn't get nerfed because of pvp, I'll tell you that.

For Every gimmick there are very simple counters, and to any hall player, I should never hear that EoE was nerfed, it still bombs as good as it ever has in halls and is still a great holding tactic.

Place EoE when you begin to be pressured too much.
Go out with as much pressure on thier teams as u can
Leave a guy with a res sig out of range.
GG youve justed bombed 4/5 of the players in the hall, and just have to chain res and kill the other 2 hereos.

Now start a dance party for the last 30 seconds of the match as the other teams have no ghost to cap with.

Triple smite was well around before the last five days. SB/RI showed up late but it did dominate the season in terms of how brutal it was

First you claim that it was not caused by the increase of skills and then you were claimed that it was caused by the ritualist. How is the ritualist not an increase of skills (or are all the ritualists running around with empty skill bars?).

That's why the Last Pride were frequently losing to SB/RI in the dying days of Season 2? If you honestly think that you can beat them without investing more into counters than usual, I ask why can a #GWP PUG guild get into the top 50 with thumpers? It's coming damn close to being that way unless you're at the utter bleeding edge like EvIL that you've lost before the gates open.

This isn't the case though. Look at the impact SB/RI had on the ladder in the dying days of season 2. It was rolling everything that it came up against. Direct result of more skills. It still rolls everything it comes up against if it survives long enough against four physicals and a tainted.

The fact that gimicks go through and rampage through the ladder is precisely the problem. I don't care that they get balanced weeks later, it's a problem because seasons get horribly distorted by them. The problem is these gimicks floating around at the moment make balanced ridiculous to play.

Got Convert x2/3. Check
Got Shields Up!. Check
Got Wards, Extinguishx2 and Shadow of Fear. Check
Got Ranger interupts or someother way to shutdown a ritualist. Check


Yay, we've allready sunk a character worth of skill slots into countering gimicks that are floating around at the moment.