Rt/me Smite Crawler Solo

Dreikki

Dreikki

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Kemi, Finland.

Pirates of the Searing [YoHo]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by dekboi
ps. i dont just use it for UW, works great in many a place Share please? I've only done UW, Onis and Wardens with this build.

flipfly2004

flipfly2004

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

A/

ive been using this build for such a long time... gotten me 54 ectos already
always remember:
- cast illusion of haste before aggroing
- after stopping cast sv immediately
- never aggro 2 groups at a time
- be patient and dont just run in

if ur having problems with nightmares try using the w/rt build coz it doesnt rely on enchantsments... takes a little bit longer but imo its safer

Bowstring Badass

Bowstring Badass

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Character selection screen figuring what I want to play...

Purple Lingerie - :D

Heh. This build and the r/me build both work but I think last time I timed it the rt/me was faster not sure tho.

Xethrion

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Ka Tet of Gilead

Me/W

Tried it and was successful on my very first run (prior UW experience with 55 monk and nec though), though I screwed up next run at the beginning. Aggroed a NM that was blocking the way to kill it without having Illusion of Haste on and got raped by Aatxes after that. ouch. Then 2 more successful runs after that for a total of 3 ectos. Not bad for the first day I use it

Minor question, how do you guys deal with the linked patrolling Aatxe and NM duo? UW vets should know what I mean

bored-.-bored

bored-.-bored

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2006

Behind You...

X Team Slayers X

Since it has been semi nerfed as you cant agro massive groups any more im to lazy to make a rt i just use wittes w/rt build

Captain Arne Is PRO

Captain Arne Is PRO

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

I just need a little space to mention how retarded I am. I momentarily forgot that you could have more than one enchantment on you at a time.


Great build, can't wait until I'm level 20 to get my pwn on.

From what my friends say it's a LOT faster than any other solo build.. And since I've already mastered the movements with other builds I think I'll catch on quick!

Sainor

Sainor

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

Made a Rt for this and fell in love with the profession. And the runs are rather easy for cuz I did this as Famine solo before. However Rt is faster and easier. Right now working on getting used to this build.

Xethrion

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Ka Tet of Gilead

Me/W

Agreed, this is one of the easiest builds to run for UW solo. Once you get the hang of the casting order and don't mess it up, it's pretty much foolproof unless you make a major mistake.

Of course, prior UW experience would be extremely useful, in figuring out patrol patterns, safe spots, possible NM spawns etc.

ca_aok

ca_aok

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Xen of Onslaught

E/Me

It took me about 5 tries to get to the smites, but once I got the hang of it it was great. I got 3 ectos on my first run so my rit has pretty much paid for himself Thanks again.

Fox Reeveheart

Fox Reeveheart

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Michigan

none q.q

D/

couple questions.... is the equipment that is suggested something that should be required? Do I really need a 20% enchanting thing? I can see not needing a 20/20 focus since its more of a 1 in 5 chance thing.

Is this build still usable after the aggro change?

what is the casting order? that was never put into detail on here? I never saw any vermin build to read up on. I'm guessing its echo, VwK, Vwk clone, Vwk. All while using vengeful weapons in the meantime. what else? and what do i do for the 20-30 seconds I have for arcane echo to actually recharge to turn it back into VwK? physical resistance and vengeful weapon spamming?

Fox Reeveheart

Fox Reeveheart

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Michigan

none q.q

D/

(sorry for doubel post, edit button was not working for me)

Ok but seriously, I just spent ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of my money on trying this build and I lost all of it!

Somebody needs a VERY in depth guide on how to do this run, because somebody has a screw loose, the aatxes dont seem very slow to me! and how long is a few seconds to have your visage up against the darkness's? I was at about half health (like 3-5 seconds of being attacked) when i decided it was time to turn on vengeful and i still got killed before it turned on. and another group of darkness spawns with a aatxe with it or at least thats how it seems, how do i deal with that?

all my money is gone, i'm broke. i spent a whole week on getting the skills for this (my comp is awful and the lag is beyond terrible, so what i have to do is be on only a little bit at a time because the computer will overheat and I am forced to restart, its very frustrating.).

Next time we have favor, could i POSSIBLY join one of you guys on the run, i'll just go run and die or something so i can have the camera on you. Obviously I can't read this and be able to do it, I have to see what you are doing.

Do you turn on pr when you first aggro the darkness?

And where is this vermin farming build that is mentioned? they dont even have a link to show how they use that either.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could really use some help here, I will have to spend all tomorrow trying to get 1k.

I havent killed ONE enemy besides a dying nightmare that popped up as i was walking to get the clear chamber quest, i turned on VwK and he died within like 2 seconds... weird... but obviously I cant run up there without dying so i couldnt get his loot anyways.

Geishe

Geishe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

The Agonized

Rt/Mo

omgod, calm down!

I reccommend practising using the VwK build first NOT in UW. Search up the Vermin farming build via the Search button. Its pretty much the same idea apart from the running around thing... but once you get the hang of the build everything else should just come together.

Lag is a terrible thing.

XvArchonvX

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

Practice is VERY important for this build.

Also, the search button is your friend:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...engeful+vermin
The first result teaches the vermin run. There are pictures, videos, and a lengthy description.

As for UW, cast all your enchants, aggro the Graspings, then run far enough away so that the Graspings follow you and the Aatxes give up and turn around. After this, wait a little bit for the graspings to attack you and lose energy from Visage. After a few seconds, start casting stuff and kill them. Also, makes sure you cast Arcane Echo BEFORE you aggro anything.

This being said, you are probably better off using the E/Me solo build if you want to solo farm UW. The vengeful build still works, but is slower since the last AI update.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10100360

ca_aok

ca_aok

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Xen of Onslaught

E/Me

Actually, I never practiced VwK outsdie the UW, as I said, it only took about 5 tries to get it. The way I do it is as follows:

Weapons I use: Firey Flame Spitter of Enchanting (20%) (helpful, not necessary)
Straw Effigy (+30hp/20%HSR factions offhand)

-Turn on illusion of haste. Take the quest from the lost soul and run back to the starting position.

-Turn on physical resistance, one of your visages, illusion of haste, and channeling if you have it (I carry channeling instead of soothing memories). Agro the grasps to the west, then run back to the east set of steps (but don't go up). The axates should break off long before you get there, but overkill is good. Let them hit you for like 3 seconds, then activate arcane echo, then VwK, then your second visage (my first one usually runs out right about now). If you brought channeling, spam vengeful weapon, if not, use it occasionally, keeping enough energy for VwK and SV/AV at any time.

-Wait until the middle group of grasps reaches the western steps. Make sure any patrol of nightmares is away from the group. Activate your enchants as before, and lure the grasps to the starting point (luring them all the way to the steps tends to break agro). Repeat killing process.

-Activate all your enchants again, run up the east steps and into the safe spot near the locked door towards the smites.

-Wait for the grasps to come down the steps, then throw everything on (even illusion of haste... sometimes axates will agro you), run back, then start killing.

-As you kill, try to move as far away from the door as you can without agroing axates behind you... otherwise you may agro foes on the other side of the locked door.

-Once dead, the doors will open. Make sure any patrol with a nightmare is out of your run path. Throw everything on (channeling isnt necessary if you brought it, I still keep SV or AV on for running, keeps the axates from using some of their strong attacks if hitting you), and run up the steps. Around here, you may need to reapply illusion of haste. Continue to run towards the smites. Reapply IoH until you're sure you've completely broken agro, otherwise they may lock on to you again even if they started to run back.

-For smites, throw everything on before agroing, cast Arcane echo while they run at you, and then VwK right away. With channeling, I spam vengeful weapon permanently while recasting VwK and all of the enchantments.

-After killing the 1st smite group, run forward until you reach a junction. A coldfire patrol passes through there every little while, so be sure to wait for them to pass before running by. If a nightmare spawns at the junction, kill it with vengeful weapon.

-Run into the spot where there are no coldfires. Its on top of a small cliff. Occasionally there will be smites there, if not they will be in the mass of coldfires to the east, or on the plains below the cliff. Pull a group with a longbow and kill them. Clear all of them out of the area.

-Wait for the coldfires to be a safe distance away, then run down below the cliff and head west. You'll see 3 coldfires as well as the rotating patrol from the junction, as well as a smite group. Pull and kill them.

-Run back to the junction, avoiding any colds. This time, you'll be luring any smites in the east. A patrol of colds generally goes up and down the long cliff face, be sure to avoid them. Pull smites back to the junction.

-After killing them, run north along the cliff face until you hit a wall at the very end (you can generally see an axate through it if you hold down CTRL. There should be a group of smites towards the end, pull them to the wall so you wont agro any colds.

-After killing them, follow the patrol of coldfires along the bottom of the cliff face, being careful not to agro others. When they start climbing a hill towards the possible chest spawn, you can slip into a monster free zone near a sheer wall. If there is a chest, wait for the colds to turn back, then run up and grab the chest.

-This is the tricky bit... unless you get lucky with smite positioning, you now either need to kill some coldfires to finish the run, or get off a lucky longbow shot without agroing any colds (really hard if the smites are in a bad position). To kill colds, I put up channeling only. I use echo before agroing, then VwK, and spam vengeful. Step out of any maelstroms, but other than that, allow the colds to hit you. Reapply channeling and VwK as necessary. At most you should have to kill 2 groups, usually one is sufficient. Experience will tell you which group, and when it's worth it to do so.

-Finish any smites.

-Run = finished!

Hope that helped you a bit.

novawhiz

novawhiz

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Reeveheart
(sorry for doubel post, edit button was not working for me)

Ok but seriously, I just spent ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of my money on trying this build and I lost all of it!

Somebody needs a VERY in depth guide on how to do this run, because somebody has a screw loose, the aatxes dont seem very slow to me! and how long is a few seconds to have your visage up against the darkness's? I was at about half health (like 3-5 seconds of being attacked) when i decided it was time to turn on vengeful and i still got killed before it turned on. and another group of darkness spawns with a aatxe with it or at least thats how it seems, how do i deal with that?

all my money is gone, i'm broke. i spent a whole week on getting the skills for this (my comp is awful and the lag is beyond terrible, so what i have to do is be on only a little bit at a time because the computer will overheat and I am forced to restart, its very frustrating.).

Next time we have favor, could i POSSIBLY join one of you guys on the run, i'll just go run and die or something so i can have the camera on you. Obviously I can't read this and be able to do it, I have to see what you are doing.

Do you turn on pr when you first aggro the darkness?

And where is this vermin farming build that is mentioned? they dont even have a link to show how they use that either.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could really use some help here, I will have to spend all tomorrow trying to get 1k.

I havent killed ONE enemy besides a dying nightmare that popped up as i was walking to get the clear chamber quest, i turned on VwK and he died within like 2 seconds... weird... but obviously I cant run up there without dying so i couldnt get his loot anyways. I feel with you bro i have spent all my money on builds befor and not been able to use them at all.

Honestly there is no way that anybody can explain how to use this build to you. (Or it will be very hard and annoying.)

Instead we have the power of GameCam.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...w+solo&hl=e n

Just watch this and see exactly what this guy does. You can even take it part by part with gw minimized like i did.(Get in UW and minimize GW, look at first part of video, open back up GW and do it, look at next part on video etc..)

This is what I did/doing(still getting hang of build) By no means will you ever get this build or any for that matter on your first try. It takes many tries and faluires.

Unfortunetly yes, it does cost a whole fricking 1,000g to get in UW but you can kill two birds in one stone by farming vermins outside Senkis Corner(or something like that, ive only had my friends factions account for a couple days.)

1). You are making money for your next UW trip/s
2). You are practicing outside of UW how to use VwK build.

Watch video- and if you cant get it after that then your hopeless(JK )

ca_aok

ca_aok

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Xen of Onslaught

E/Me

Hmm I just realized all my directions were assuming you begin in the UW facing north... but it's actually northeast or something else

So I dunno about anyone else, but the SV/AV nerf kinda sucks. Channelling helps ALOT to maintain the needed energy, I'd strongly recommend it now. The build is still doable. I have my illusion/inspiration at 9/9 now since you wont get 9 seconds of visage without 12 illusion.. which sucks. So I took a point off illusion (didn't decrease the durations any farther) and put it in inspiration for slightly longer channeling/PR. Basically what this means is that grasps get a window in which to drain your energy and interupt you. It's a real pity that you don't get the 20% longer enchants bonus while holding VwK; that's what kills the concept right there. Also the rend enchantment buff means you need to be more careful than ever about nightmares while using IoH. They now pop up and use rend so fast you may not notice until your enchants are gone and you start to die.

Without channelling, I'd forsee this build running out of energy pretty fast.

King's Spectre

King's Spectre

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Syracuse, NY, USA

The Amazon Basin (AB)

W/

I'll have to try that. I did a standard test run last night. I found that as long as I waited to cast the first visage until *after* the graspings were attacking, all was well. I also had to pay close attention to when I used phy resist. Time it so that you're just getting to max energy again when you cast haste to agro. Otherwise you could find yourself high and dry when you need to cast the next visage.

I may have to bit the bullet and stop using collector armor..

Another thing that could help is a +30 energy (gottahavavisageNOW) weapon switch.

ca_aok

ca_aok

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Xen of Onslaught

E/Me

yeah, I think having a 15 -1/27 -1 weapon set would help alot for those hairy situations where they interupt SV/AV and start spamming fear me.

I guess the +energy rit armor would probably be a better bet now too, though I think I'll stick with the +armor while holding an item stuff.

I mean keep in mind, they could end up tweaking SV/AV back, these changes are "temporary" (though I'd say it's not likely). This is really the only build that was affected though, other than energywise, since the other builds can use 20% enchant weapons since they don't hold items. I mean, I still use my firey flame spitter for the initial enchant cast bonus and occasional VwK faster recharge, but normally when you use a visage VwK will be running.

King's Spectre

King's Spectre

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Syracuse, NY, USA

The Amazon Basin (AB)

W/

Oof! The new improved nightmares are nasty to a character who not only uses enchants for speed boot, but is dead in the water when they get stipped.

Going to have to work on the fast weapon spell - wand tag combo..

Mr. Fahrenheit

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

Broadway

D/

Question: How do I deal with 5 or more smite crawlers at once? I do fine with 4, it's just my final VwK ends too fast when there are still 2 or 3 more.

Ole Man Bourbon

Ole Man Bourbon

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Atlanta

GONG

W/E

Doh, can't access page 12 for some reason.

edit: nm, someone must have deleted 1st post on page

ca_aok

ca_aok

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Xen of Onslaught

E/Me

Quote:
Question: How do I deal with 5 or more smite crawlers at once? I do fine with 4, it's just my final VwK ends too fast when there are still 2 or 3 more. Constantly spam vengeful weapon until VwK recharges. It's usually not a big deal.

King's Spectre

King's Spectre

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Syracuse, NY, USA

The Amazon Basin (AB)

W/

Dang, I think my Rit is officialy going on mule status. Thank you OP for a great build, while it lasted.

Edit: Meh.. went back to bang my head against the wall some more, but the skills reverted. I guess I'll try again in a couple weeks.

ca_aok

ca_aok

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Xen of Onslaught

E/Me

It still works fine... there will occasionally be a screw up with the grasps but other than that not much has changed.

Crowell The Fallen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

Australia

Know Your Enemy [PMS]

Mo/

did anyone try and farm using this build during the skill change weekend? im curious as to how people delt with the AV / SV changes.

King's Spectre

King's Spectre

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Syracuse, NY, USA

The Amazon Basin (AB)

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowell The Fallen
did anyone try and farm using this build during the skill change weekend? im curious as to how people delt with the AV / SV changes. Heheh yes, and not well. The improved rend enchantments and timing issues were messing me up more than anything. I went out yesterday and upgraded my armor to a +energy set followed by a slew of attunement runes. That at least will give me the energy to fire off an extra Visage and VwK or survive a few Fear Me! shouts if I'm too slow.

black_mamba

black_mamba

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

does this build still work with all new updates?

lunaticmo1

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

AYBwYxWCEPRgHsEkEim Templet for this build, post on front page =)

Tiny Killer

Tiny Killer

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2006

Oshkosh, WI USA

Exile Champions of Heroic Order [ECHO]

Quote:
Originally Posted by black_mamba
does this build still work with all new updates? Perhaps if you read the post directly above yours...

Pougee

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

3rd Rock from the Sun

AuS

Mo/

Havent tested maybe drop soothing for channeling, if the av/sv thing becomes permanent?

Just ninja all the smites without aggro'ing the coldies.

ca_aok

ca_aok

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Xen of Onslaught

E/Me

Quote:
did anyone try and farm using this build during the skill change weekend? im curious as to how people delt with the AV / SV changes. Bring channelling, as I've suggested before in this thread, bring a 15-1/27-1 weapon set for those times when you've gotta get a visage on and the grasps are spamming "Fear Me", and wait for the grasps to use distracting blow before putting up a visage. My skill order on the weekend was this:

-Cast PR and channelling, then IoH. Agro the grasps.
-Run back, wait for them to use distracting blow, then do visage->echo->VwK.
-When visage goes down, wait 1 second before casting your second one. This will have a 2 second downtime between visages which was the optimum downtime you could have without 12 pts in illusion magic.
-Recast VwK as necessary.
-Use Vengeful weapon when you can.

VS the nightmare rend, just wait until he rends you then recast IoH and run to a safe spot. With PR axates will still take a few hits to kill you, so it's possible, just harder.

MrSlayer

MrSlayer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

United Kingdom

Quit Whining And [PLAY]

Mo/

Well I tried this run with the exact same build, no changes at all, and I have completed 2/4 runs. The 2 failed runs were due to lag and the immensely tiny rend-enchantment time. Both can be beaten. Heres the trick.

Grasping Darkness...es
Graspings are a pain. The groups of 3 should all use interrupt. IoH and lure as usual, use their interrupts. AV, Echo, VwK. When AV ends, wait 2 seconds then cast SV. Whilst (at an 8 second Visage) this wont tile forever, it only needs to work for 30 seconds (3 VwKs) and you're home free.

The group of 4 is trickier, since one usually always fails to use his distracting. If he interrupts your AV, you are safe to just echo and then VwK. They dont use Fear Me much when you have VwK and when it ends, dont cast the second. Let it end and you get 15 energy (I use a +10/+5 staff) then recast or try for AV. Rinse and repeat.

Sorry poor explanation. They use Fear Me til your energy hits 0. If you usually have a +15 energy weapon, you are 15 energy down when you are holding Khanhei's ashes. So when it ends and you drop it, BOOM, you have 15 energy. Quickly cast VwK again before they sap your energy and continue. Just watch the one that buggers off when he's bored; he might come back and interrupt your VwK.

Running to smites
Ok so I played with this a bit. Stick up your 20% enchant-boosted IoH (at the Illusion used for this build [ I forget...go check page 1] thats 9 seconds + 20% enchant weapon). Wait for it to half recharge, stick up Physical res and run. Why wait? Well if a Grasping pops (and usually one does near the door) you have a recharged IoH to cast, and enough room between you and the aatxe. Even if the patrolling aatxe comes down, his savage blow is too slow and his damage is a one of. The next part is the same. Dodge the graspings and the dying, leeroy the aatxe.

Smites
Simple. Lure them in a way so that they reach you at roughly the same time (pull them in a line then run to the middle of the line and move sideways from them).
- Physical Resistance
- AV
- Arcane Echo
- VwK

Dont stop casting. When AV ends, count to 2 then use SV. Then activate your second VwK (WHEN THE FIRST ONE HAS BEEN DROPPED!) . When SV ends, count to 2 then use AV again. One more VwK (for the groups of 4) and a few Vengeful Weapons. Or 2 VwKs will finish it for a group of 3.

Or for a group of 5, Vengeful, repeat your AV or SV or whichever you have recharged. Heal a bit then cast one last VwK to take down any stragglers.

Pretty simple .

AscalonWarrior

AscalonWarrior

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Kokkola, Finland

Mo/

Has anyone tried this after Hard Mode came out? I've had some troubles to get to smites. Like Graspings are killing me easier etc etc..

AscalonWarrior

AscalonWarrior

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Kokkola, Finland

Mo/

Sorry double post

heroictyler

heroictyler

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2007

Australia,Melbourne

Prozen Monestry [PM]

W/Mo

Nice Video xD just watched it then great lruing the smites xD

MrSlayer

MrSlayer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

United Kingdom

Quit Whining And [PLAY]

Mo/

This build is probably inferior to the Rt/W build now. However, it's still pretty awesome to just be able to lure 5 mobs of smites and take em all down in one go.

Dahnel

Dahnel

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Rt/Me

Pff, Inferior..you know how many builds took inspiration from the running part of this ? :P

Thank you and good night.

Swift Thief

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2007

Aatxe Pirates [YaRR]

A/

Both builds are great but I prefer Rt/W, because it's faster. I am not talking about the VwK one, I'm talking about the channeling one.

But hell yeah, tons of builds took inspiration from yours.

MrSlayer

MrSlayer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

United Kingdom

Quit Whining And [PLAY]

Mo/

Yeah indeed you did start a revolution .

I still have trouble running to the smites with 1 sprint at 8 seconds with Rt/W, but only about 5 runs out of 50

Swift Thief

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2007

Aatxe Pirates [YaRR]

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSlayer
I still have trouble running to the smites with 1 sprint at 8 seconds with Rt/W, but only about 5 runs out of 50 You could maybe bring along enraging charge.