With Factions and now Nightfall comes 2 entirely new classes, with this precedence set we will have exponential growth of skills, armors, weapons in upcoming chapters and it will be a balancing nightmare for PvP.
What I suggest is to stop adding new professions for a few chapters and just add skills and armors for existing ones. For new players of chapter 4 they can have the 6 core professions and a choice of 2 others. For example they can unlock Ritualist and Paragon characters even though they havent purchased Chap 2 or 3. They can unlock any core Ritualist and Paragon skills and any new ones introduced in Chapter 4.
Not only will this help flesh out existing professions but perhaps make for a more focused game that doesnt have 2 dozen professions that cant do much 4 chapters from now with the small amount of skills they were initially given.
Any thoughts on this? If so, explain if you are primarily PvE or PvP. I understand that for PvE it nice to have as much content as possible but from a PvP perspective, the game will become to broad and unrefined to be balanced at this rate.
No New Classes in Chapter 4, Just 6 Core and choice of other 2
perfect
unholy guardian
what's wrong with adding new professions? It doesn't help much to make stand alone games if it is acting like an expansion.
Bartuc Galadwor
It also doesn't help much to make mid quality stand alone games. If they were to leave new professions out of it, the could focus more on adding newer and more detailed material. For example they could make a bigger PvE continent because of less focus on 2 new characters.
Lilanthe
/not signed
The only reason I buy expansions is to play the new professions. Without them, without these new character styles, the game would becomes incredibly boring in PvE.
Why would someone buy an expansion without something new ? Explore a new world ? Who buys an expansion just to look around different areas, it's nice indeed, but not a reason to buy a 50$ game. New storyline ? Please, you do know that it isn't guildwars forte.
If there isn't something NEW to PLAY, why bother buying upcoming expansions ?
The only reason I buy expansions is to play the new professions. Without them, without these new character styles, the game would becomes incredibly boring in PvE.
Why would someone buy an expansion without something new ? Explore a new world ? Who buys an expansion just to look around different areas, it's nice indeed, but not a reason to buy a 50$ game. New storyline ? Please, you do know that it isn't guildwars forte.
If there isn't something NEW to PLAY, why bother buying upcoming expansions ?
Mister_Smiley
I beleive that someone said that they didn't play in added 2 new classes in Nightfall, but something changed and here they are. It is up to the higher ups in the compainy to desided what is going to happen, they want to keep makeing money, their for you will see things you won't expect, like the 2 new classes that will be in nightfall. Also that will make us have 10 classes, and i beleieve that we most likey will see a few more character classes in the future, when i don't know, but it will happen. I think the 2 new classes are going to rock and i plain on buying the expansion with or without new classes, cause i think Guildwars rocks.
floppinghog
OP, if you understand that pvp could use diversity then delete your post....
stupid topic
stupid topic
actionjack
Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting idea.
Its one altnerative to not making new proffesions.
Personally, I do hope they make more, but they need to be creative and pratical and original and balance.
I will /notsign just for reasons that it feel strange to go back to it, and the re-use proff would seem out of place in the new land, with no quest/item to support them and decrease the desire for those who already have those expansions to buy the new chapter.
but I would consider having a character pack, that would give you one character slot, allow you to play one of the none-core proffession from other expansions, but only in PvP setting, and not in PvE. Of couse, all for a cheap price.
Its one altnerative to not making new proffesions.
Personally, I do hope they make more, but they need to be creative and pratical and original and balance.
I will /notsign just for reasons that it feel strange to go back to it, and the re-use proff would seem out of place in the new land, with no quest/item to support them and decrease the desire for those who already have those expansions to buy the new chapter.
but I would consider having a character pack, that would give you one character slot, allow you to play one of the none-core proffession from other expansions, but only in PvP setting, and not in PvE. Of couse, all for a cheap price.
Ken Dei
Well considering they're gonna have to stop for a while eventually, I'm gonna use the...
"Signet of Approval"
Simply beause I rather they expand on some of the current "new classes"
The Assassin still needs repair, and the Rit is still seemingly limited in build structures.
"Signet of Approval"
Simply beause I rather they expand on some of the current "new classes"
The Assassin still needs repair, and the Rit is still seemingly limited in build structures.
perfect
At this rate in a few years we will have 20+ classes, thousands of skills and hundreds of armor types and so on. Does this really seem realistic? With each new chapter building upon and then expanding the previous it will effect the quality. How can Anet really deliver on this, you need to realize the logistics that go into embedding a skill into the balance so that it works properly.
Unless of course the new professions are left as is and remain static with nothing new. Without new skills each profession will fall into its niche, in chapter 6 assassins will still unwanted and despised, what good is a load of professions that nobody wants you to play? How will anyone ever find a monk when there are 20 other professions standing there looking for the same thing? There will be no point in creating these gimmick classes if they fall into obscurity, there are already threads on this forum about deleting assassins and such.
In PvP with such a large variety of skills and professions that it no longer becomes a game of skill but if luck. With a team of 8 you can only have 64 skills and when there are thousands of skills it is impossible to be able to prepare for everything. It becomes a game of rock beats scisssors. Right now you have to prepare foe melee dmg, caster magic, spikes, hexes, enchants , conditions, spirits, etc. After Nightfall add on Shouts (Paragon) and AoE enchants/melee (Dervish) and with more chapters it will be more and more. With only 64 skills available to a team this poses a big problem in the future.
Unless of course the new professions are left as is and remain static with nothing new. Without new skills each profession will fall into its niche, in chapter 6 assassins will still unwanted and despised, what good is a load of professions that nobody wants you to play? How will anyone ever find a monk when there are 20 other professions standing there looking for the same thing? There will be no point in creating these gimmick classes if they fall into obscurity, there are already threads on this forum about deleting assassins and such.
In PvP with such a large variety of skills and professions that it no longer becomes a game of skill but if luck. With a team of 8 you can only have 64 skills and when there are thousands of skills it is impossible to be able to prepare for everything. It becomes a game of rock beats scisssors. Right now you have to prepare foe melee dmg, caster magic, spikes, hexes, enchants , conditions, spirits, etc. After Nightfall add on Shouts (Paragon) and AoE enchants/melee (Dervish) and with more chapters it will be more and more. With only 64 skills available to a team this poses a big problem in the future.
actionjack
I see new Core as an option.. one that is parallel (and not crossable) with the exisiting core... as well as new proffession for that new core.
For further expanding of the new-underdevelop proffession, I would suggest Expansion Packs (not new chapters) which offer addtional expansion on the previous chapters and few skills for the proffesions in there.
No new Proff might also be a good option.. but if you give the option to unlock one of the exisiting new proffession and give them additonal skills... people who did not buy this new chapter would not receive this benefit, and for them, it would still not fix what they have. It would almost become non-stand alone.
For further expanding of the new-underdevelop proffession, I would suggest Expansion Packs (not new chapters) which offer addtional expansion on the previous chapters and few skills for the proffesions in there.
No new Proff might also be a good option.. but if you give the option to unlock one of the exisiting new proffession and give them additonal skills... people who did not buy this new chapter would not receive this benefit, and for them, it would still not fix what they have. It would almost become non-stand alone.
Terra Xin
Unless GW begins introducing brand new skill mechanics instead of creating suttle variations of existing mechanics, the ability to create new professions will become limited.
Giving future chapters the ability to unlock classes from other chapters is not a good idea, maybe from a PvP perspective, but the specialty characters are themed for the chapter that they were created in. You may be looking at the realities of GW future, but I hope that this idea isn't one of them.
Giving future chapters the ability to unlock classes from other chapters is not a good idea, maybe from a PvP perspective, but the specialty characters are themed for the chapter that they were created in. You may be looking at the realities of GW future, but I hope that this idea isn't one of them.
Arcador
You fail to see the point.
Primary clases (core) will have diversity and variety of skills, bringing them to other dimentions than we've seen them.
Secondary classes from the new chapters will be chapter classes and have their variety in unique way thus making the selection of class choises wider.
If you have played Dota for the past 1.5 years you will get the picture of it. Gw will have very big choise of selection satisfying the pretentious player there is but the 'builds' will suppas far any other game. Anet will try to keep things balanced.
In the beginin I also was very sceptic about those new classes, but after that I realized the geniosity of the global view. The Devs said: "You are free to skip a chapter if you feel so and that won't make you obsolute", and that looks like the very point of it. It is not a marketing trick, it is the idea.
Primary clases (core) will have diversity and variety of skills, bringing them to other dimentions than we've seen them.
Secondary classes from the new chapters will be chapter classes and have their variety in unique way thus making the selection of class choises wider.
If you have played Dota for the past 1.5 years you will get the picture of it. Gw will have very big choise of selection satisfying the pretentious player there is but the 'builds' will suppas far any other game. Anet will try to keep things balanced.
In the beginin I also was very sceptic about those new classes, but after that I realized the geniosity of the global view. The Devs said: "You are free to skip a chapter if you feel so and that won't make you obsolute", and that looks like the very point of it. It is not a marketing trick, it is the idea.
NinjaKai
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by floppinghog
OP, if you understand that pvp could use diversity then delete your post....
stupid topic |
Leonof
Chapter 3 isn't even out yet. I wouldn't worry about chapter 4 right though, that's what I think anyway.
Undivine
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Leonof
Chapter 3 isn't even out yet. I wouldn't worry about chapter 4 right though, that's what I think anyway.
|
Mr Panda the axe
why not new charrs? like a babarian that uses 2 axes/2 hammers? or a gunner from the future :P(sorry im mad)or maybe even some kinda panda! =D(id apreciate that alot cus im a panda fan as u see at my name)that would be cool! 0_o
Terra Xin
Barbarians have been suggested before, Gunners have been suggested before, and Panda's are a no-go no matter how many times it is suggested.
The point I tried to raise is that there will come a time where new mechanics ARE required in order to sustain the freshness of the core classes, and you can't introduce new mechanics to an existing class because it would put it out of balance towards the core classes that are owned by players who have only purchased selected chapters, therefore if any NEW mechanics were added to the core classes, it would have to be spread across all chapters to make it an equal playing field. (For example, chapter 5 introduces warriors with the ability to use enchantments, but all other chapters are unable to fathom the idea - just an example) Adding in new skills is good, but if you look at Factions, there were no new mechanics introduced in the core classes, but only extended variations of existing mechanics. That is a good thing, but i'm saying that you can only go so far with that idea before it becomes a necessity for the developers to do something very different with the core classes of future chapters - adding new mechanics across all chapters is one of those solutions to help feed future chapters.
Diversity and Variety of skills are limited to the mechanics in which it is based on. Eventually you will run out of skill-combinations.
The point I tried to raise is that there will come a time where new mechanics ARE required in order to sustain the freshness of the core classes, and you can't introduce new mechanics to an existing class because it would put it out of balance towards the core classes that are owned by players who have only purchased selected chapters, therefore if any NEW mechanics were added to the core classes, it would have to be spread across all chapters to make it an equal playing field. (For example, chapter 5 introduces warriors with the ability to use enchantments, but all other chapters are unable to fathom the idea - just an example) Adding in new skills is good, but if you look at Factions, there were no new mechanics introduced in the core classes, but only extended variations of existing mechanics. That is a good thing, but i'm saying that you can only go so far with that idea before it becomes a necessity for the developers to do something very different with the core classes of future chapters - adding new mechanics across all chapters is one of those solutions to help feed future chapters.
Diversity and Variety of skills are limited to the mechanics in which it is based on. Eventually you will run out of skill-combinations.
Odinius
Ok let's stop speculating on C4 cause it will be near completion now.
We have 10 professions now, maybe 2 more in C4 (I know, speculation but let's just assume for now ok)
I'm having a hard time playing all my chars as it is.
But the one who started this thread really was onto something IMO.
And I know I read this somewhere before but can't find it atm, it was /notsigned but stick with me plz
Ok
- No new professions
- Increase lvl cap
- Add more skills and stuff
And here's the thing
- Add 3 more attributes for primary
- Add quests that give you more attribute points
- Add the option to get your primary to a next level (been said before as in "warrior -> knight", "elementalist -> wizard")
- Give people the choice of going to the next level or not just as choosing you second prof ("do you want to become a knight?")
- Add new armors (sets for knights and sets for warriors)(just taking warrior as example)
New attibutes could be
Dual swordsmanship(warrior)
Whipmastery(ranger)
Daggerthrowing(assassin)
etc.
We all like new abilities and new looks for our professions, the forums are flooded with ideas.
We have 10 professions now, maybe 2 more in C4 (I know, speculation but let's just assume for now ok)
I'm having a hard time playing all my chars as it is.
But the one who started this thread really was onto something IMO.
And I know I read this somewhere before but can't find it atm, it was /notsigned but stick with me plz
Ok
- No new professions
- Increase lvl cap
- Add more skills and stuff
And here's the thing
- Add 3 more attributes for primary
- Add quests that give you more attribute points
- Add the option to get your primary to a next level (been said before as in "warrior -> knight", "elementalist -> wizard")
- Give people the choice of going to the next level or not just as choosing you second prof ("do you want to become a knight?")
- Add new armors (sets for knights and sets for warriors)(just taking warrior as example)
New attibutes could be
Dual swordsmanship(warrior)
Whipmastery(ranger)
Daggerthrowing(assassin)
etc.
We all like new abilities and new looks for our professions, the forums are flooded with ideas.
![[M]agna_[C]arta](/static/static/../Img/avatar118311_19.gif){kind=avatar}
[M]agna_[C]arta
Quote:
|
Ok let's stop speculating on C4 cause it will be near completion now. We have 10 professions now, maybe 2 more in C4 (I know, speculation but let's just assume for now ok) I'm having a hard time playing all my chars as it is. But the one who started this thread really was onto something IMO. And I know I read this somewhere before but can't find it atm, it was /notsigned but stick with me plz Ok - No new professions - Increase lvl cap - Add more skills and stuff And here's the thing - Add 3 more attributes for primary - Add quests that give you more attribute points - Add the option to get your primary to a next level (been said before as in "warrior -> knight", "elementalist -> wizard") - Give people the choice of going to the next level or not just as choosing you second prof ("do you want to become a knight?") - Add new armors (sets for knights and sets for warriors)(just taking warrior as example) New attibutes could be Dual swordsmanship(warrior) Whipmastery(ranger) Daggerthrowing(assassin) etc. We all like new abilities and new looks for our professions, the forums are flooded with ideas. |
might go for GW2 cause by implementing this, this won't be the GW we know before^^ cause this changes the whole gameplay. Why GW2 cause this is a sequel which changes the whole entire game.
[M]agna_[C]arta
To Perfect
Bad bad bad Idea if this happens I will never ever play GW ever again!
Bad bad bad Idea if this happens I will never ever play GW ever again!
Knightsaber Sith
/notsigned
no new professions- doable
increase lvl cap- nope
skills- obviously more...
more attributes- highly unlikely, and frankly would just needlessly complicate things
more att points- don't need 'em
new armor- that's pretty much a given...
no new professions- doable
increase lvl cap- nope
skills- obviously more...
more attributes- highly unlikely, and frankly would just needlessly complicate things
more att points- don't need 'em
new armor- that's pretty much a given...
GuildWiki Jamie
I haven't played Dervish, but I certainly prefer to try the campaigns from scratch from time to time, without new professions I would have no incentive to do this, as I have every profession already.
New professions are an exciting part of Guild Wars, keep on adding 2 every campaign and I'll be a happy man.
New professions are an exciting part of Guild Wars, keep on adding 2 every campaign and I'll be a happy man.
MithranArkanere
I loved the Dervish, and I'll love new classes.
For me there is only one reason to get more character slots: new classes.
Expasions for already existing campaigns should not have add classes, but new campaigns should, at least until they are 'too much', that is around 15-20 classes.
For me there is only one reason to get more character slots: new classes.
Expasions for already existing campaigns should not have add classes, but new campaigns should, at least until they are 'too much', that is around 15-20 classes.
Thomas.knbk
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by floppinghog
OP, if you understand that pvp could use diversity then delete your post....
stupid topic |
If you can't understand how that messes up PvP, please delete your post.
If everything in that inquirer-article is true, we won't get new classes in CH4.
Thank god, I say.
MithranArkanere
Balance was already being done before the addition os Assasins and Ritualists.
And balance will still being done after each season, no matter if new skills are added or not.
Never forget, any change being it good or bad, is ALWAYS better than holding back things like water in an old putrid pond.
The people that wants things always the same, that wants no change, that people kills a game: "Leave it like it is" kills a game.
Why? Because the 'build that works' would be always the same, and everyone would use that one, and the game would turn boring, and when a game turns boing is no longer a game.
Chage, is always good. We are here because of change, as evolution is one type of change.
Please never forget that.
And balance will still being done after each season, no matter if new skills are added or not.
Never forget, any change being it good or bad, is ALWAYS better than holding back things like water in an old putrid pond.
The people that wants things always the same, that wants no change, that people kills a game: "Leave it like it is" kills a game.
Why? Because the 'build that works' would be always the same, and everyone would use that one, and the game would turn boring, and when a game turns boing is no longer a game.
Chage, is always good. We are here because of change, as evolution is one type of change.
Please never forget that.
Cousin of Morgoth
Ok, I think it's dumb to stop adding new professions for a few reasons.
1) They're half of the reason I purchase new chapters.
2) They already add new skills/armor/weapons for old professions.
3) In PvP it makes it harder to predict what your going to be up against so that you can't just bring defenses against the most popular builds.
Also, there's a few flaws with your idea
1) People would stop buying the games, especially if they only played mostly PvP, because they don't need the PvE content.
2) Adding ritualist/paragon/dervish/assassins to chapter 1 or 2/3 respectively would change the games. They'd have to make many new quests, skills, armor, etc.
3) There's no such thing as 'core' skills for non-core classes. Only the core professions have core skills. durrr.
4) Also, you mentioned that they would have to do with the small amount of skills they are initially given... This is also untrue... Because, thusfar, they have added new skills even for non-core professions (Example - They added new Assassin and Ritualist skills in Nightfall.)
Overall, I'd be extremely disappointed if they stopped adding new professions because it adds many new variables to the game -- Both PvP and PvE
Thanks for reading,
Cousin of Morgoth
1) They're half of the reason I purchase new chapters.
2) They already add new skills/armor/weapons for old professions.
3) In PvP it makes it harder to predict what your going to be up against so that you can't just bring defenses against the most popular builds.
Also, there's a few flaws with your idea
1) People would stop buying the games, especially if they only played mostly PvP, because they don't need the PvE content.
2) Adding ritualist/paragon/dervish/assassins to chapter 1 or 2/3 respectively would change the games. They'd have to make many new quests, skills, armor, etc.
3) There's no such thing as 'core' skills for non-core classes. Only the core professions have core skills. durrr.
4) Also, you mentioned that they would have to do with the small amount of skills they are initially given... This is also untrue... Because, thusfar, they have added new skills even for non-core professions (Example - They added new Assassin and Ritualist skills in Nightfall.)
Overall, I'd be extremely disappointed if they stopped adding new professions because it adds many new variables to the game -- Both PvP and PvE
Thanks for reading,
Cousin of Morgoth
Winstar
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
I loved the Dervish, and I'll love new classes.
For me there is only one reason to get more character slots: new classes. Expasions for already existing campaigns should not have add classes, but new campaigns should, at least until they are 'too much', that is around 15-20 classes. |
2) New classes are not in principle bad, have in practice for whatever reasons been awful for game balance. I'd love new classes if they could be properly integrated into the game but so far its been a no go on that front. The existing content of this game needs to be fixed and its promise should be fulfilled rather than tacking more and more content on that simply throws things out of whack.
/signed...no new classes
MithranArkanere
You should already know that is almost impossible to see if something is completely and absolutely balanced or not until you see it in action?
Why? Guild Wars is based on skills, and there are hundresds of them so even with continuous tests, there is always hidden combo that someone finds.
That's why every season the skills are changed.
Guild Wars is alive, it keeps changing, whether you like or not.
If you want a game with completely fixed structures you should look for something more like... chess.
Why? Guild Wars is based on skills, and there are hundresds of them so even with continuous tests, there is always hidden combo that someone finds.
That's why every season the skills are changed.
Guild Wars is alive, it keeps changing, whether you like or not.
If you want a game with completely fixed structures you should look for something more like... chess.
Vinraith
Since I expect the next one will be the last one, I have to say "no" to this. Two more classes aren't going to destroy PvP, and for those of us that primarily PvE they're a major reason to pick up a new expansion.
Obey The Cat
/highly NOT signed
would'nt be fun to fight vs same mobs cause of same classes
would'nt be fun to fight vs same mobs cause of same classes
Winstar
There is a difference between admitting that perfect balance cannot be achieved and mindlessly accepting the kind stupid rediculous imbalances that we've had. The problems with skills and classes are not the result of the great diffucultly of foreseeing the problems the new skills would bring, but a lack of willpower or manpower etc to do something about what were going to be _Obvious_ problems.
Two new classes will in fact ruin PvP and drive more people away from the game if they are chruned out in the same manner as the last 2 batches.
I still don't understand why you don't think that improving the game content in other important ways would in fact be a substantial leap forward for this game and make this game WAAY more enjoyable than simply tacking on 2 classes and keeping the same dry formula. Time not wasted on new classes could be spent on making the game itself better...sigh...
Two new classes will in fact ruin PvP and drive more people away from the game if they are chruned out in the same manner as the last 2 batches.
I still don't understand why you don't think that improving the game content in other important ways would in fact be a substantial leap forward for this game and make this game WAAY more enjoyable than simply tacking on 2 classes and keeping the same dry formula. Time not wasted on new classes could be spent on making the game itself better...sigh...
Frazzy
How about Area Net just adds two professions that cannot access Player vs Player arenas, except for the low level arenas, and perhaps there can be a level 15-19 and a level 20 Player vs Player arena on that island. This would make people who enjoy Player vs Player and Player vs Environment both happy without unbalancing the game.
TheLordOfBlah
Diversity will come out of more skills for core classes, not classes that are basically a mix of two existing ones.
/SIGNED
/SIGNED
actionjack
What if you just add a "Chapter Exclusive Arena"?
Meaning a special Arena (not the battle isle) where only player of that chapter can enter and play. Thus in a Ascalon Arena, you would only see those of the core 6 can enter, and all of the new proffessions would be bar off. So those who fear diversity and challenge, and retreat to there, while those who want to face new enemy, can head for Battle Isle.
Thats just an idea. I for one don't think its really needed, as I think the dev are capable of balance things out, one way or another.
But I do hope to see a more unique new proffessions, not just a re-mix of the core. The Concept Class fourm have a good few of those.
Meaning a special Arena (not the battle isle) where only player of that chapter can enter and play. Thus in a Ascalon Arena, you would only see those of the core 6 can enter, and all of the new proffessions would be bar off. So those who fear diversity and challenge, and retreat to there, while those who want to face new enemy, can head for Battle Isle.
Thats just an idea. I for one don't think its really needed, as I think the dev are capable of balance things out, one way or another.
But I do hope to see a more unique new proffessions, not just a re-mix of the core. The Concept Class fourm have a good few of those.
BrotherGilburt
What you talkin bout Willis
/notsigned
BrotherGilburt
/notsigned
BrotherGilburt
Thomas.knbk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
You should already know that is almost impossible to see if something is completely and absolutely balanced or not until you see it in action?
|
Don't get me wrong. I'd love more variety, if it were done properly. If I wouldn't have to endure four months of a completely messed up metagame before the variety did what it was supposed to do, then I'd definitely /sign new proffessions.
However, Factions and Nightfall weren't able to do that, so I doubt they'll be able to do it in GW:EN. Therefore, I don't want new professions in that chapter.
Blessed Winds
Why would you get a stand alone game that has no new professions? It might as well be an expansion pack because there's no use for players to create a character of a profession they've already had.
C2K
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk
Which is exactly why it takes several months after each chapter before the metagame is kind of balanced again.
Don't get me wrong. I'd love more variety, if it were done properly. If I wouldn't have to endure four months of a completely messed up metagame before the variety did what it was supposed to do, then I'd definitely /sign new proffessions. However, Factions and Nightfall weren't able to do that, so I doubt they'll be able to do it in GW:EN. Therefore, I don't want new professions in that chapter. |
Shadowfrost
It's not just the new professions that unbalance PVP and (not as much) PVE. New skills for the old professions are just as bad, and have to be balanced just as much as the skills for the new professions have to be.
Water Angel
/signed.
why even add new classes when some old ones,still need serious changes?...
anet should start by clean/put in order old shiet before make new one.
why even add new classes when some old ones,still need serious changes?...
anet should start by clean/put in order old shiet before make new one.