New Skins for Cantha, but Tyria remains unfinished.

This is but a small gripe that has been hanging around in the back of my mind.

ANET has never really finished Tyria. I mean at first it was just the Gladiators and Tormenters (of course, they were eventually updated - after a lot of cajoling and prodding by the community), but then ANET has simply managed to completely ignore the fact that they have multiple weapon names out there with the same skins - literally an unfinished game.

At first I figured ANET really did have bigger things on its plate, but with the most recent update, which included:
Golden Maul
Salient Daggers
(new axe skin - check other thread)
Gloom Shield (UW)
Grinning Recurve Bow (FoW)
Jade Sword
Guardian of the Hunt
- and maybe possibly more?

I'm disappointed that ANET has so pointedly ignored what is left undone in Tyria. For example -
Giant Slayer's Hammer - Ram's Hammer - Swamp Club
War Axe - Hatchet
Double Bladed Axe - Great Axe
Butterfly Sword - Wingblade Sword
War Hammer (vanilla skin) - Magmas Arm
Break Hammer - Dwarven Hammer
Shield of the Wing - Aegis
Defender - Tower Shield
Forked Sword - Spatha?
Falchion - Scimitar
Hand Axe - White Scythe - Krytan Axe


I don't know if there is more off the top of my head. If anyone can tell me more I'll update this list.

Is Tyria ever going to be finished? Are they going to just let this product remained half baked? It was pretty bad considering Gladiator's and Tormentors weren't done out of the box, but I'm glad they decided to take responsibility and update those skins. It's just unfortunate that ANET decides to let everything else go without player complaints.

Could I get some sort of response from a reliable authority on whether further improvements upon this area will be made (hint hint Alex Gaile and whoever else)? Or does ANET just not care anymore?

Tyria got some greens a while back.

Ice Breaker
Totem Axe
Green Fan thingy

I don't see what the problem is? If you mean 2 different weapons/shields have the same name than big deal. Recurve = Composite it's not a big deal.

ANet moves on from old chapters. It's the way it works. Each chapter gets updated for six months to a year, then the next chapter gets most of the attention.
Prophecies got pretty darn big updates like Grenths Footprint/Sorrows Furnace with all that's in it, plus Defiled Tombs; to date Prophecies still have got *way* more added content compared to release than Factions have.

But this is really a case of "what have you done for me LATELY", and ANet's moved on from Prophecies. Don't expect new content there, only events & bugfixes.

So you guys think its okay that ANET simply forgets about the game as long as there are new chapters?

I dont understand your rationale. What if Cantha was jipped like Tyria and then nightfall comes out? It's all okay and there's a clean slate?..

thats the way they designed their business model.

You're gonna hve to deal with it if you intend to continue playing the game.

Wait a second - so are you telling me if Factions had come out before Gladiators or Tormentors was updated, you would just say:

'that's the way they designed their business model'?

I know that most of the responses from this community to people who would like change is 'either play or leave' but I feel that there is a third option to this, which is more meaningful discussion and perhaps better reasoning as to why this issue should be just ignored when it is fully obvious that ANET has to capacity to change skins or introduce new ones.

What do you think is unfinished? There are weapons all over that have the same skin but different names. This is true for Factions too. You paid a one time fee for a game. How long do you think they should keep updating it?? Prophecies is pretty much finished. The design team from Prophecies is working on chapter 3 if I'm not mistaken.
If you want more content and/or skins, pay the price for the next chapter.

So you think Anet should keep updating Prophecies from now til the end of time without receiving any compensation for that new content? What don't you understand? There are 2 design teams. The Prophecies team is working on Nightfall and doesn't have time to work on Prophecies anymore and I don't think they should. It's old news.

Updating? This isn't about new content - this is about content that should have been ther ein the first place.

What weapons in Factions have different names but the same skin? I fail to recall any, so please refresh my memory in order to validate your claim.

Proof: Rusty Axe has the same skin as the default PvP Battleaxe skin.

Anyway, I fail to see how a few skins with same name is Game Breaking like you said (You said Chapter 1 is only HALF a game because of these skins).

They are most likely this way on propose.

Two weapons with the same skin but different names is super duper low priority. There is nothing to FIX. The weapons work just fine no matter what they look like or what you call them.

To make money and stay in business, ANet has to make a new chapter. If they put their modelers and programmers to work making all the old stuff perfect, then they can't produce new work. They don't make money, they go out of business, we don't have ANY game to play. What do you REALLY want?

Well ANET has enough time on their hands to introduce a couple new skins for UW/FoW and Factions.

Obviously its not cutting into their bottom line in producing Nightfall, or they wouldnt be doing it, now is it?

So what's the big deal if they decide to legitimitize something they should have done long ago?

To stave off the riot associated with a pushing back of Factions. And almost started one by insisting summer ends in September.

To introduce Cantha and make a half-way good reason the entrance to the Hall of Heroes was to be moved to the Battle Isles - a requirement for multichapter gaming there.


Frankly, I don't even expect Arena Net to hold Christmas or Halloween in Tyria.

The game is still for sale in stores and they expect people to buy it. Matter of fact, they jsut released a new friggin CE for it. Why would they buy anything? They should discontinue production if they continue to work on their set it and forget it business model.

[Rage]
What is wrong with two different weapons having the same skin? What does it matter? How do you consider this unfinished? Honestly... would you really get mad if you got a perfect wingblade sword but since it wasn't called "Butterfly Sword" you would sell it? The names of weapons don't determine prices, the skins do. It wouldn't matter one bit if there was a fellblade and than another sword with the exact same skin but a different name; they would both sell for the same amount!
[/Rage]

Personally this doesn't sound like a problem at all. Just cause a couple weapons have the same skin doesn't mean the campaign is "incomplete".
I'd consider Tyria complete (except perhaps the unresolved issue of surrendering Ascalon to the charr.....) and I'd say it's safe to say the majority of the community has no problem with repeat skins.

Who the heck are you to decide what should have been there in the first place?
Here's another example. Zojun's Haste and Dodge are the exact same skill but are named differently. OMG! Quick! Someone from Anet needs to fix this NOW! This shouldn't be there in the first place!
Don't pretend to know what should have been there in the first place because you weren't on the design/development team.

I just always found it annoying how there were repeat skins for different names, as if ANET had released an incomplete game but never decided to update it because the community didn't whine and moan enough.

Well accuse me of whining and moaning if you want, but I knew people would simply tell me that ANET doesn't have the resources to fix this particular deficiency, because that's what all the ANET apologists like to say.

Now with the new update and introduction of new weapon skins, I can't help but wonder if ANET shouldn't be fixing the basics first before trying to distract the community with newfangled jazz.

I guess this argument is as similar as expecting Microsoft to update your Windows 95 after they released Windows XP. Or to upgrade your old 1960's VW Beetle with new mods after they released the new VW Beetle.

Essentially, most, if not all, companies in the world will stop supporting old products and most choose to leave defects/bugs in the field until they cause major problems, if they ever do.

The cost of adding enhancements and supporting any defects/issues for out-dated products incur an exponential cost on resources.

Why is there a whole thread on Tyrian weapon skins? Weapon skins don't determine whether or not a campaign is complete. >.> Try that line of attack whenever weapon skins determine the outcome of the entire end of the game.

Our point isn't that "Anet doesnt fix it because we don't whine" WE are asking you what do you think is not Fixed?

I see nothing wrong with 2 names on the same skin...And believe me, it happens ALOT MORE in other games.

I fail to see yet what is Breaking the game and making Tyria only half a game.

And other person - DONT EVEN bring up they should discontinue sales of chapter 1 if this isn't fixed...Does make your arguement look that smart....when theres nothing to fix.

The 15k Tormentors and such waas fixed because 15k is supposed to look different - Nowhere did you get promised every weapon would be unique.

It actually makes more since the way it is...EXAMPLE: White Scythes and Krytan Axes. White Scythes are the same skin, but dropped by White Mantle. OF COURSE the white mantle would call their favorite axe skin something else more based on their own name. And Handaxe vs. Krytan Axe...What you'd call the blade would be dependent on the region you live in...It shows the differences in cultures and ideals

On the back of the Prophecies Guide includes all the skin's names as well, including ones that I've never seen.(probably just removed)

Here are some:
-Sephis sword
-Titan's Axe
-Edron Hammer
-Dwarven Hammer
-Crusader's Sword
-Krytan Sword
-Rekki Blade
-Tribal Blade
-Wyvern Blade
-Longclaw

It's a well known fact that weapon skins scare mobs causing them to drop. It makes farming a lot easier when you have rare weapon skins.

Ice Imp #1: Dude that looks like a rare weapon skin.
Ice Imp #2: Damn! Why have the gods forsaken me?!! WHY!!
Guy with Rare Weapon Skin: Prepare to be vanquished!!
Ice Imps: NOOOOOoooossss!!! *dies*

ANET said looooooooooong ago that they wont update Tyria directly anymore and that they'll focus on the most recent title and upcoming titles for GW.

Its no huge surprise, I was only surprised when Tyria got some new things with those green items etc.

The unofficial Prima Guide's lists were often tiems based on VERY EARLY Beta tests and preemptive listings (before the actual weapons were rendered and added)


Anyway...People should refer back to my last post....There is nothing to fix...the name difference on the skins actually adds Depth to the game on a level and is justified in the lore.

Unfortunately Prophecies is still being sold in stores and is not an 'old edition' of a continuing line of software.

Also Introducing new weapon skins in cantha would be the same as introducing new skins in Tyria, unless you're suggesting the platforms for the two campaigns are wholly different..-_-;;

So it bothers you THAT MUCH that there is a krytan axe and a hand axe with the same skin that you'd rather ANet fix those than introduce totally new skins? I think you have it good to have nothing better to complain about.

I'll go AT LENGTH to prove this is a false argument, since he seems to be skipping any rational post up til now that calls out his ideas and just picks on the comments and quotes about Anet's Business Model because they are the easiest counter arguments to shoot down.

I'll take the Hand Axe, Krytan Axe, White Scythe thing further. The skin seems to be the standard small axe for a farmer or something in Kryta. If you live in Ascalon, you'd call this a "Krytan Axe" and this is what they are called alot of the time when they come from Hidden Stashes - This tells that the skin is normal for Kryta. If you LIVE in Kryta or are from there, you probably just know it as a normal "hand axe". Just like someone IRL might call something "An Old Indian Axe" - well if you WERE that old indian using the axe, you probably know it by more common and mundane terms - probably just "Axe" or the indian language equal. White Scythe comes form the White Mantle (the only enemies that drop the skin with that name on it) - and they modified the name to fit their more offensive uses for it and to fit with their name.

Or War Hammer and Magmas Arm. It is a vanilla skin as you put it that many cultures are fimilar with. The Titan's call it their Magmas Arm because it is their hammer style of choice to use and they give it a name more fitting for their uses for it and they are probably unfamilar with the "lingo" of the cultures. You find Magmas Arms in some Hidden Stashes in Pre - This is explainable too since the Charr are around attacking Ascalon at the time and they have old knowledge of the Titans (worship them actually) so they are familar obviously with the titan term for the weapon.

Gaint Slayer's hammer vs. Swamp Club vs. Ram's Hammer. Obviously the people familar with the Gaint tpyes weilding it would call it by Gaint Slayer's hammer because they know it is the hammer of choice for gaints that slay people. Someone unfamilar with this, like the Northern Shiverpeak people drop it as Ram's Hammer just went off its looks for the skin - A Ram's Head at the end. They have no knowledge of the Gaints using them so could never make this connection. Swamp Club if you remember is a rare Undead drop for the skin. For someone looking upon Undead weilding them, they can make the connection of undead in swamps to the usage of the weapon - Thus Swamp Club - a CLub (hammer) used by the creatures of the swamp.

I could go through and Justify EVERY LAST EXAMPLE you gave on the first page using actual FACT about drops and have it all match and fit with the Lore of Guild Wars in a rational fashion.

This all sums up my point that it isn't anything needing to be "fixed" as fixing it would ruin the level of depth that can be created through the naming conversion.

I see your point. If they are the same platform then it would be a relatively minimal work effort to bring over the new skins - though I'm still guessing it would require 1-3 FTE to do this or $5-$10k USD. This estimate is a gross cost that includes employee time, benefits, maintenance, etc...

However, keep in mind that something as trivial as adding new skins requires testing. The QA team for ANet, from the credits, looks to be about 100 or so people. The addition of new skin requires testing on all levels. For example, you'll need to test the art in all locations, different combinations of off-hands and weapons, the physics of the item, etc...

I worked on the game SSX Tricky and all the combinations of bolt-ons (items) ranged in the level of about 7 million. QA had to test that all possible combinations of the skins. So for ANet, I can understand the need not to release new skinned content, as the amount of testing would be enormous.

Although it doesn't seem possible, it is possible that a particular off-hand can have a graphic defect if it is paired with a particular weapon. Things like this do occur.

i would love to have a life so wonderful that something this small is enough to complain about (and bitterly as well it seems)

so there is not a unique skin for each and every item in the game .

so what

actually i didnt notice that as i was playing the game instead of playing find a skin duplicate.

so to answer your earlier question as to if i think leaving the game incomplete by not adding a few more skins the answer is this

*since in my opinion that is a non issue for game completeness it simply does not apply.................now if the axe was MISSING (INVISABLE AXE) that would be incomplete*

i wonder how much i could get for an invisable axe anyway?

any bids?

Former Ruling - your arguments have been so wholly absurd I did not really feel like having to explain to you why I think you are wrong.

I have never played another RPG type game before guild wars that had the audacity to claim that having repeat weapon skins FOR DIFFERENT NAMES - which coincidentally indicate they are DIFFERENT WEAPONS, not simply BS reasoned out crap that you're submitting to me.

I'd really love to hear an ANET rep come here and tell me that the same skins + different names is a FEATURE, not a neglected problem.

But I doubt they will, because anyone here who isn't willfully blind could not say with a straight face that this is not a deficiency to an otherwise excellent game.

Wow, someone came to a forum to express his ideas, and forums are a cruel place, so when everyone posts in his little thread COMPLETELY makes a joke out of his argument he does what anyone his age (acted age, I dont care how old you are) would do and just turns it into a Mud-Slinging Fight by coming back to every fact and rational argument against you with "Ur SToopid!@!@@!!one!@! And Im Write!@!"

Its a good way to get a otherwise decent thread closed in fear of a flame war when someone not as nice as me decides to get finally annoyed with it.

EDIT: I'll humor your argument further to not look offtopic.

Atleast Guild Wars has a rational for weapons with the same skin. I've played games where almost every sword is just generic "Sword" with different mods.

The thing isnt feature vs convenience for them. Its the fact that you plainly claimed that these weapons with the same skin RUINED the game for you (its only a HALF game because of it apparently), when I showed you there is a good reason they have different names...It Fits. Doesn't matter if they were too lazy to skin them - Because the product we have WORKS - It all fits and noone but you seems to have a problem with it. I rather LIKE this compared to more garbage skinning that takes their time away from more productive updates.

It might be different if it was such a rampent problem...but these are isolated cases that actually have a REASON for having different names because of cultural influences and such. It adds something to the lore to me. it isn't like every Axe is a generic skin with different stats - there are just skins that are called different stuff in different regions (like Krytan Axe, Hand Axe). Hand Axe has a new skin BTW - Which is the same thing backwards, two skins on the same name - like War Hammer - and AGAIN it works into the lore just fine because of where they drop and the name itself is pretty mundane.

Also its fine to justify something INGAME with something like I did. Its about the only way to justify some things. I don't think the skin of some random weapon fits into a "Business Model" type argument...

(BTW, I wanted to ask how you came to the conclusion that Different Name means Different Weapon? Aren't there TONS of things in real life called different things in different regions?)

Not to create an animosity, but here's a list of RPG's where they have repeat weapon skins for different names:

• Baldur's Gate Series
• Icewind Dale Series
• Neverwinter Nights Series
• Quest for Glory Series
• Pretty much the entire SSI line of RPGs
• etc...

Not that it's acceptable, but it is a common "feature" in the industry.

Go play some older RPGS. Recycled and recolored skins are very common. Incredibly common. Hell...i used to play RPGs where weapons are just icons. And they recycle those.

-------------------

I love the Hand Axe/Krytan Axe/ White Scythe. I have 4. 3 are Hand Axes, and 1 is a White Scythe.

If tommorow, Anet decided "finish" the "unfinished" weapons, as you claim they are unfinished, and my Hand Axes suddenly changed skins to something else, i will be VERY VERY angry. If my Wingblade suddenly changed skin, i will be very angry.

Did you ever think about people who actually like the skins of their weapons, even if they have multiple names?

--------------------

My question. Why the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO does it matter so much to you? Do you hate the skins that badly?

EDIT:
Guild Wars isn't an "older RPG" - it should be a "new" RPG - and better than the "older" ones.


Answer to Lyra's question:

It's bothered me ever since I was a newbie to this game.
I'm not even really asking for a new skin for each weapon - I'm asking for a new skin for each repeat weapon.

I mean really - a Ram's hammer should look like a ram's head, right? But it doesn't make sense something called a Swamp Club or a Giant Slayer's Hammer does so as well.

I basically come here asking for some support on what would be an admittedly small change (apart from asking them to nerf touch rangers or introduce new maps and huge amounts of content) and I base my argument on principle.

Instead I have people flaming me because 'it doesn't matter that much' 'what is your problem' 'anet is SO poor they can't do anything unless you give them more money' etc.

I mean c'mon people, do you like being ripped off? No one should even have to come to forums and put up posts like I have - this kind of thing should not even be a problem.

But it is - and its puzzling why the problem is still around even after a year.

out of simple curiosity have you noted the trend in responses?

i and others responding simply do not consider this to be a problem at all.

on the other hand you seem to think that a few more item skins will make the game *finished/complete* and without those few skins (which none of the rest of us miss) your whole gameplay experience seems to be seriously dampened.

since this will undoubted happen as we move on from chapter to chapter i suggest a long serious consideration before buying future chapters

Just to make this clear - from all the negative feedback from this thread:

We have people saying several things:
1) Anet doesn't have the resources
2) Prophecies is an 'old version' so therefore cannot be updated without major resources
3) Having WEAPONS WITH DIFFERENT NAMES and SAME SKINS adds depth to gameplay, does not remove it.
4) Just because ANET states they aren't doing major changes to Tyria means they cannot fix small old problems
5) If I criticize ANET in any way I get flamebait from the resident ANET Defender Force (TM).

And Fyi Loviatar - just because you crazy forum posters spam me with negative messages does not mean this thread has gotten its fair share of people reading and debating it - it just means trolls like you enjoy misquoting me and extrapolating mysterious opinions of 'mine' that you get from God Knows Where.

First and foremost:
Each chapter is a standalone game, no matter how you dice it up, and therefor the business model ANet is pursuing here is valid.

Consider your copy of Prophecies an aged version of Windows, say...Windows 3.1? Now, when was the last time your copy of Windows 3.1 received numerous fun, non-essential operating updates from Microsoft? And which product do you think these non-essential updates went to? Perhaps your Windows XP version? Prophecies is NOT a broken product based on your complaint.

Consider this: When I purchased Guild Wars in April 2005, before it was even Prophecies, I had the minimal amount of content the game had to offer. During the last year, it has grown and underwent so many aesthetic and non-essential changes that even today it seems like a whole new experience in many places. Now, if you (or anyone) purchases this product well after its inception, you're essentially missing all the updates and changes because you've already absorbed these things we call updates and additions into the 'normal' mode of play, whereas those of us from April-June 2005 have the sense of feeling that our original product has seen some great bonus material. And it has.

By constantly drafting and redrafting the original product, you're essentially ruining the opportunity to create a new product, and this weapon skin debate is a prime example of this. Someone mentioned this above me (sorry), and it's true - if you want the new weapon skins, purchase the new product. You're not paying a monthly fee, therefor you're not getting monthly eye candy. And really isn't that what this is all about? If not, please explain to me how my Battle Axe does the same damage and effects as your Great Axe.

Well Anna, what I'm trying to say that is new weapon skins should have been included in the first place.

I'm not really asking for a "new feature" - the way I see it I am asking for something that should have been done. If ANET truly wanted to ignore each preceding chapter, why have they introduced the dynamic update system?

The changes I'm asking for isn't a redraft. It isn't even a massive overhaul of the old game. This is something I expected to come along as a newbie, but never materialized. I admittedly told myself that they were up to more important things, but ANET has decided to introduce new weapon skins for cantha and fow/uw. Why not Tyria? Shouldn't new weapon skins be there first?

It doesn't completely ruin my gameplay that there are repeat weapon skins. But I still feel it is wrong for ANET to do that to us. I mean, they obviously felt bad about Tormentors and Gladiators (or the whiny playerbase made them feel bad). Either way, there is a double standard here, and I just feel like it is a valid point.

I really do not see how this is any different from people crying to have their glad's and tormentor's armor updated - and I don't remember seeing anyone against that.

FIRST LETS CLEAR SOME THINGS UP.

1 I DID NOT MISQUOTE YOU OR ALTER THE QUOTE IN ANY WAY.

2 AS FOR TROLLING GO BACK AND YOU WILL SEE (UNEDITED) THAT WHILE DISAGREEING WITH YOU I WAS POLITE

/motion to close the troll OP thread now

Agree with Yun on this one. ANET should take the 8 hours of time and update the skins on those Prophecies items.

Seeing as what matters when you complete PvE is armor and skins, maybe they should have payed more attention to it at the time?

I really don't care about it. So your Dwarven and Break hammers look the same, DEAL with it.

Anet has to worry about completely new games every 6 months, do you realize how much of a burden that is?