Fort Aspen Battle way TOO easy on LuX
idkzero
The only thing lux has to do is talk to the turtles and rush building and the occassional take back mines, but mostly rush gate. Thats like.. 100x easier on them then it is the kurz. We have to defend the base AND run back and forth with Amber in our hands, *cannot* defend ourselves as we are minus 2 or more on the runners? commm'on anet. atleast give us something better than juggs that sit there and look stupid. their damn turtles don't even have to get that close AND they use siege weapons?! AND they get warriors that KD and chase you to the end of the earth?!? No wonder Lux doesn't run Jade, they have a bigger margin of winning at fort aspen. Runners taking damage, dying at bigger rates. The respawn on the lux should be slightly longer than the Kurzick atleast.
Shrouded Waffle
How many of these threads will there be?!
This should be in the "Alliance" section, where all the other threads bitching about aspenwood go. Don't make new threads about this, just post in the other thousands of aspenwood topics.
/endrant
This should be in the "Alliance" section, where all the other threads bitching about aspenwood go. Don't make new threads about this, just post in the other thousands of aspenwood topics.
/endrant
Matsumi
I don't see anything wrong with a suggestion being in a suggestion section of the forum. Although it could be worded differently. How many "fix the ele" threads are floating around? lol, there's even one in the nightfall section.
Anyway, I kind of agree that the base could use some better defenses of it's own. Maybe some catapults or something to seige the turtles on the way to the base?
Anyway, I kind of agree that the base could use some better defenses of it's own. Maybe some catapults or something to seige the turtles on the way to the base?
Terra Xin
You can easily win this mission if everyone ran amber, its just that too many people dont like having their only task to run amber while their NPC friends are doing all of the killing. Kurzicks have two effective tasks - Run amber, and kill the turtles. Everyone else can be killed by NPC's who should respawn at a quick rate if more than 1 person runs amber.
Normal mines commit to 2% of the total while the Refined mine supplies 5% of the total, people complain about Luxons winning too quickly? There's the solution, you can have all 8 people rush the mines and before you know it you're up by 40%, not too hard to do.
Normal mines commit to 2% of the total while the Refined mine supplies 5% of the total, people complain about Luxons winning too quickly? There's the solution, you can have all 8 people rush the mines and before you know it you're up by 40%, not too hard to do.
Parson Brown
Having played both sides extensively, the Lux side is easier for an unorganized team.
However, I've been on Luxon teams that barely broke the inner Orange/purple gates because the Kurzicks took the fight out to us instead of waiting huddled inside. Use your advantages. Keep spellcasters/rangers on the wall casting down on the invaders. Do what you can to protect the gate guards. Interrupt/kill turtles. Take mines so Lux have farther to go. etc.
However, I've been on Luxon teams that barely broke the inner Orange/purple gates because the Kurzicks took the fight out to us instead of waiting huddled inside. Use your advantages. Keep spellcasters/rangers on the wall casting down on the invaders. Do what you can to protect the gate guards. Interrupt/kill turtles. Take mines so Lux have farther to go. etc.
vaxmor
cry more.
Opeth11
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Originally Posted by vaxmor
cry more.
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Meeper
In theory both sides are balanced.The only real problem with Kurzick side is it relies on players to know what they're doing, which 99% of the time they don't, and there isnt much Areana Net can do to make people smarter.
I think one small buff they could do is make capturing command points useful. At this point it's useless, and I see so many newbies in Aspenwood adamantly refuse to harvest amber becuase they feel that holding command points gives them a real advantage, despite the fact that the turtles are still alive and well killing the few of the Kurzicks that are running amber. A good first step would be to make command points a harder to recapture. Adding like a priest and a juggernaught in addition to the necro and ranger there would leave command points susecptible to degen and AoE, but allow the points to remain in kurzick hands long enough for them to be at least somewhat useful. This would also force a strategic element on the Luxons, giving them an extra incentive to keep turtles alive, and help Kurzicks by drawing away Luxon players to recapture command points.
I think one small buff they could do is make capturing command points useful. At this point it's useless, and I see so many newbies in Aspenwood adamantly refuse to harvest amber becuase they feel that holding command points gives them a real advantage, despite the fact that the turtles are still alive and well killing the few of the Kurzicks that are running amber. A good first step would be to make command points a harder to recapture. Adding like a priest and a juggernaught in addition to the necro and ranger there would leave command points susecptible to degen and AoE, but allow the points to remain in kurzick hands long enough for them to be at least somewhat useful. This would also force a strategic element on the Luxons, giving them an extra incentive to keep turtles alive, and help Kurzicks by drawing away Luxon players to recapture command points.
Curse You
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Originally Posted by Meeper
In theory both sides are balanced.The only real problem with Kurzick side is it relies on players to know what they're doing, which 99% of the time they don't, and there isnt much Areana Net can do to make people smarter.
I think one small buff they could do is make capturing command points useful. At this point it's useless, and I see so many newbies in Aspenwood adamantly refuse to harvest amber becuase they feel that holding command points gives them a real advantage, despite the fact that the turtles are still alive and well killing the few of the Kurzicks that are running amber. A good first step would be to make command points a harder to recapture. Adding like a priest and a juggernaught in addition to the necro and ranger there would leave command points susecptible to degen and AoE, but allow the points to remain in kurzick hands long enough for them to be at least somewhat useful. This would also force a strategic element on the Luxons, giving them an extra incentive to keep turtles alive, and help Kurzicks by drawing away Luxon players to recapture command points. |
I think the problem is that too many people whine because half the people are using PvE builds in a PvP fight. A PvE build is still better at attacking than it is at running amber and keeping NPCs alive. The real problem is that there are many ignorant/dumb players who don't get what PvP is or how the Mission is played.
GloryFox
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posted by Meeper In theory both sides are balanced.The only real problem with Kurzick side is it relies on players to know what they're doing, which 99% of the time they don't, |
NinjaKai
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Originally Posted by Meeper
In theory both sides are balanced.The only real problem with Kurzick side is it relies on players to know what they're doing, which 99% of the time they don't, and there isnt much Areana Net can do to make people smarter.
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Terra Xin
PvE builds are based on killing targets, and if PvE serves its purpose, playing a defensive role would be a first, which will leave the players dumbfounded for the first few times until they actually realise what it is they actually have to do. On the luxon side you can get away with no knowing what to do... you just follow the turtles, if they blow something up, then it must be a good thing, so you go and help. but there is absolutely no way for a Kurzick to tell that they have to run amber unless they follow another player, or unless someone tells them, or unless they bother to talk to Durheim and get the details that way.
Luxon is straightforward, Kurzick isn't, that is your imbalance.
Luxon is straightforward, Kurzick isn't, that is your imbalance.
QuixotesGhost
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Originally Posted by idkzero
The respawn on the lux should be slightly longer than the Kurzick atleast.
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The Kurzicks can generally get to where they need to be quicker than the Luxs can.
Silver_Fang
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Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost
It is, the luxons spawn either all the way back or at the mines. The Kurzick get to spawn right on the the objective they have to defend and have the gates to quickly travel to different parts of thier defense.
The Kurzicks can generally get to where they need to be quicker than the Luxs can. |
If you took Amber Mine, you spawn right next to our purple or orange gate. You can just rush the gate.
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Luxon is easier because they are straight foward, and if 2 good team fighting each other, the attacker still have advantage. Kurzick are force to be spread, whereas Luxon is concentrated. The base NPC are too spread and easily picked, the Kurzick Player are force to be spread for running Amber.
Hex Nexus
bonding ftw? speed buffs ftw? attacking seige turtle ftw?
Numa Pompilius
I just realized... you're talking about Fort Aspenwood the co-op mission?
The one I won six times out of seven yesterday as a Kurzick? And 8 out of 10 the day before?
Unbalanced in favor of Luxons?!
Now, maybe I'm just so uber that simply having my poisoning interrupt ranger show up in a battle changes the battle in Kurzicks favor, but as much as I'd like to believe that... a simple reality check suggests the reality is that Kurzicks win most battles.
Play defensively, kill/interrupt the turtles, gg hf.
EDIT: But whoever designed that fortress should be tried for treason. A fortress where you can't get up on the ramparts to attack he enemy outside? A fortress with two gates but no quick way to run between them? Feh! Obviously the architect was a mole for the Luxons!
The one I won six times out of seven yesterday as a Kurzick? And 8 out of 10 the day before?
Unbalanced in favor of Luxons?!
Now, maybe I'm just so uber that simply having my poisoning interrupt ranger show up in a battle changes the battle in Kurzicks favor, but as much as I'd like to believe that... a simple reality check suggests the reality is that Kurzicks win most battles.
Play defensively, kill/interrupt the turtles, gg hf.
EDIT: But whoever designed that fortress should be tried for treason. A fortress where you can't get up on the ramparts to attack he enemy outside? A fortress with two gates but no quick way to run between them? Feh! Obviously the architect was a mole for the Luxons!
Silver_Fang
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
I just realized... you're talking about Fort Aspenwood the co-op mission?
The one I won six times out of seven yesterday as a Kurzick? And 8 out of 10 the day before? Unbalanced in favor of Luxons?! Now, maybe I'm just so uber that simply having my poisoning interrupt ranger show up in a battle changes the battle in Kurzicks favor, but as much as I'd like to believe that... a simple reality check suggests the reality is that Kurzicks win most battles. Play defensively, kill/interrupt the turtles, gg hf. EDIT: But whoever designed that fortress should be tried for treason. A fortress where you can't get up on the ramparts to attack he enemy outside? A fortress with two gates but no quick way to run between them? Feh! Obviously the architect was a mole for the Luxons! |
And interupting turtle and kil it is easy most of the time when your opposing team are clueless, maybe im just unlucky or you are lucky, everytime i play as an interupter, the opposing team will have a necro or MM or Assasin with AoD that Degen, even Elementalist with burning and KD.
Caged Fury
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
If you took Amber Mine, you spawn right next to our purple or orange gate. You can just rush the gate.
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
And unfortunately, they tell us to capture the command point which is useless.
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Even though I do find the turtles and warriors do too much damage, I wouldn't say that the map is unbalance enough that changes are required.
Alot of my time at FA, I play on the Kurzick side and win 90% of the matches. When I'm not bonding with my monk, whether I'm a Mesmer, Ranger or Warrior, I'm out capturing mines, running amber and repairing gates. Once in a while I may go kill a Luxon or two, or nab a command point, but I don't let them distract me from running amber. Oh and I never give Gunther amber if there are gates down, it's less beneficial than repairing a gate.
Shadwu
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Originally Posted by Hex Nexus
bonding ftw? speed buffs ftw? attacking seige turtle ftw?
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Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
you can atack the enemy outside. Maybe you need to play more Aspenwood.
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What you can, and should, do, is stand on the sides of the corridor between the gates, and poison/interrupt the enemies below. There's no reason a turtle should manage to fire even once if there's an interrupt ranger on the walls of the corridor.
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| And interupting turtle and kil it is easy most of the time when your opposing team are clueless, maybe im just unlucky or you are lucky, everytime i play as an interupter, the opposing team will have a necro or MM or Assasin with AoD that Degen, even Elementalist with burning and KD. |
Anyway, I'm not saying that Kurzicks have an unassailable advatage in Aspenwood, I'm saying that neither do the Luxons.
"Kite, Gunther, Kite!"
Silver_Fang
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
If you're a RANGED fighter with the longest range weapon in the game AND height advantage, what the heck are you doing standing where an assassin or minion can get at you?
Anyway, I'm not saying that Kurzicks have an unassailable advatage in Aspenwood, I'm saying that neither do the Luxons. "Kite, Gunther, Kite!" |
Luxon advantage is they dont need specific build to play as good whereas a Kurzick need a very speicifc build and knowledge about the map just to withstand the attack. And if Luxon bring some specific build just to counter Kurzick specific build, they can win easily.
A bunch of clueless Luxon is easy.
Knight Othin Of War
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Originally Posted by idkzero
The only thing lux has to do is talk to the turtles and rush building and the occassional take back mines, but mostly rush gate. Thats like.. 100x easier on them then it is the kurz. We have to defend the base AND run back and forth with Amber in our hands, *cannot* defend ourselves as we are minus 2 or more on the runners? commm'on anet. atleast give us something better than juggs that sit there and look stupid. their damn turtles don't even have to get that close AND they use siege weapons?! AND they get warriors that KD and chase you to the end of the earth?!? No wonder Lux doesn't run Jade, they have a bigger margin of winning at fort aspen. Runners taking damage, dying at bigger rates. The respawn on the lux should be slightly longer than the Kurzick atleast.
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xiaotsu
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
and i said Necro, not MM
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
everytime i play as an interupter, the opposing team will have a necro or MM
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I've rarely lost in FA, and the ONLY times I did was because people were too unintelligent to run amber...you know the type, your average wammo..."OMG RED NAME KILL KILL KILL!!!!11"
Luxons don't have an advantage...unless ignorant Kurzicks is an advantage
gene terrodon
I was playing Aspenwood last night and won 4 of 5.
Once, at the very beginning, the Luxons breached the gates and were attacking Gunther from the start. 5 of us hunkered down and defended while 2 ran amber to him (screw the gates). We held them off and won (fast too). I had this happen a few times before and the result has always been the same, whether we had bonding monks, spirit spamming Rts or not (although, bonders and spirit spammers are FTW when defending).
IMHO, it's about getting a good team, who can adapt to the situation at hand and are familiar with the mission.
Once, at the very beginning, the Luxons breached the gates and were attacking Gunther from the start. 5 of us hunkered down and defended while 2 ran amber to him (screw the gates). We held them off and won (fast too). I had this happen a few times before and the result has always been the same, whether we had bonding monks, spirit spamming Rts or not (although, bonders and spirit spammers are FTW when defending).
IMHO, it's about getting a good team, who can adapt to the situation at hand and are familiar with the mission.
Yakumo
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
Luxon advantage is they dont need specific build to play as good whereas a Kurzick need a very speicifc build and knowledge about the map just to withstand the attack. And if Luxon bring some specific build just to counter Kurzick specific build, they can win easily.
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As Terra Xin said 'Luxon is straightforward, Kurzick isn't, that is your imbalance'.
The imbalance is addressed by gaining knowledge of the map. It also requires players to understand the different playing styles for each side.
Ephemeral Dreamer
Won Fort Aspenwood 6 of 7 time I played it last night.
Though 1 time I wasn't sure if we would, since every left but me (rit lord with fertile season) and a healing monk. About 1/2 through the match people just started leaving from the Kurzick side, and me and the monk had no choice but to retread behind the green. Every all but the elem npc was still alive . For the rest of the match I just keep spamming spirits while the monk healed any damage (degen or condition damage the npc took) and with spirits up the npc easy had over 700 hp, and the seige turtle were only doing about 35 damage ( or 60 if fertile was up). Slowly our progess meter went up giving us the win, a surpise to many on the luxon side 
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Though 1 time I wasn't sure if we would, since every left but me (rit lord with fertile season) and a healing monk. About 1/2 through the match people just started leaving from the Kurzick side, and me and the monk had no choice but to retread behind the green. Every all but the elem npc was still alive
. For the rest of the match I just keep spamming spirits while the monk healed any damage (degen or condition damage the npc took) and with spirits up the npc easy had over 700 hp, and the seige turtle were only doing about 35 damage ( or 60 if fertile was up). Slowly our progess meter went up giving us the win, a surpise to many on the luxon side .
Silver_Fang
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Originally Posted by xiaotsu
Hmm...
Yes, you did say MM. I've rarely lost in FA, and the ONLY times I did was because people were too unintelligent to run amber...you know the type, your average wammo..."OMG RED NAME KILL KILL KILL!!!!11" Luxons don't have an advantage...unless ignorant Kurzicks is an advantage |
Taurus
Fort aspenwood is completely balanced, I've owned luxons so hard that I could glad titles for consecutive wins there, the problem is when its late at night, leechers start coming in hordes, got 3 consecutive matches with leechers : 3 leechers in the first one and 1 leecher in the other 2.
Actually what really hurts fort aspenwood are the leechers, anet should send some full time admins there and start banning people and the problem is completely over.
Actually what really hurts fort aspenwood are the leechers, anet should send some full time admins there and start banning people and the problem is completely over.
Silver_Fang
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Originally Posted by Yakumo
Need a very specific build, no... Need knowledge of the map, yes.
As Terra Xin said 'Luxon is straightforward, Kurzick isn't, that is your imbalance'. The imbalance is addressed by gaining knowledge of the map. It also requires players to understand the different playing styles for each side. |
And Taurus, i think everybody in here have won Aspenwood as Kurzick, But when you play on both side and when playing on Luxon side makes you thikn it is easier to win. I think that tells you something about it. It must be because Kurzick are stupid and when they play on Luxon side, they suddenly know how to play in Aspenwood.
Jecht Scye
Retake the mines? You guys act as if that's an easy feat with people respawning there every 8 seconds. Not to mention the ridiculously overpowered 2 turtles with 4 Luxon Warriors for each. Kurzicks get 1 Juggernaut that barely is able to move let alone attack the Siege Turtles. Not to mention a simple AoE is usually enough to kill off an entire group of Kurzick NPCs because they lack the AI of the common PvE monster. The only way you can beat luxons in that mission is if they're shorthanded(leechers) and/or noobs.
Blackhawk
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Originally Posted by xiaotsu
...you know the type, your average wammo..."OMG RED NAME KILL KILL KILL!!!!11"
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Remind me to play the theme tune from Benny Hill next time I see them....
BrotherGilburt
Actually, I think it can be easy for the kurzicks. One kurzick monk can hold of the entire luxon force as long as the luxons dron't strip enchants. A single monk just has to bond and heal one of the kruzick npc's at the green gate...
Also now that EoE is nerfed its harder for luxons.
Also, /notsigned.
The only thing that makes it unfair for the kruzicks is that they have to wait longer than the luxons do to get the same amount of faction.
Brother Gilburt
Also now that EoE is nerfed its harder for luxons.
Also, /notsigned.
The only thing that makes it unfair for the kruzicks is that they have to wait longer than the luxons do to get the same amount of faction.
Brother Gilburt
Silver_Fang
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Originally Posted by BrotherGilburt
Actually, I think it can be easy for the kurzicks. One kurzick monk can hold of the entire luxon force as long as the luxons dron't strip enchants. A single monk just has to bond and heal one of the kruzick npc's at the green gate...
Also now that EoE is nerfed its harder for luxons. Also, /notsigned. The only thing that makes it unfair for the kruzicks is that they have to wait longer than the luxons do to get the same amount of faction. Brother Gilburt |
Second, there are too many way to counter a Bonded gate.
Ranger, Mesmer, Necro, Ritualist, all of them can breach a bonded gate.
The wating time doesnt make it unfair for Kurzick, the immobile stupid kurzick NPC does.
ChildeOfMalkav
First of all this doesnt belong in the suggestions forum. This is just another rant and whine with a one sentence suggestion tacked on at the end.
Second how many freaking complaint threads do we need on this subject?
Third, stop calling something unbalanced when the only problem is the lack of player skill and ignorance. I'm Kurzick and I simply call BS on you other Kurzicks who cry about this supposed huge balance. There are only a few minor things that should be added (ie gatekeepers should accept amber while attacked and one more juggernaut is needed) but nothing that can't be overcome.
All of you who keep saying that you're losing all the time as a Kurzick have really crappy teams and you yourself are the problem because instead of learning to coordinate the team and learning how to play, you just whine.
Second how many freaking complaint threads do we need on this subject?
Third, stop calling something unbalanced when the only problem is the lack of player skill and ignorance. I'm Kurzick and I simply call BS on you other Kurzicks who cry about this supposed huge balance. There are only a few minor things that should be added (ie gatekeepers should accept amber while attacked and one more juggernaut is needed) but nothing that can't be overcome.
All of you who keep saying that you're losing all the time as a Kurzick have really crappy teams and you yourself are the problem because instead of learning to coordinate the team and learning how to play, you just whine.
Cymmina
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Originally Posted by NinjaKai
Unfortunately most of those idiots don't see Gunther who explains what you do.
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Even then, the information isn't that good for FA/JQ and PvP characters can't access the cut scene. It would have been nice if they had bothered to, oh, I don't know... let people see a tactical overview of the "U" map and explain each point.
The Luxon NPCs are just plain better than the Kurzick NPCs. If the Luxon NPCs (1 turtle + 4 hammer warriors) can take down a gate by itself, there's a problem. Also, the Luxon NPCs have a reliable self heal (heal sig).
ChildeOfMalkav
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Originally Posted by Cymmina
Raise your hand if you actually talk to the NPCs. Prophecies NPCs never said anything worth reading, why would vets expect anything different with the Factions NPCs? I didn't even know they gave out useful information until I was at Raisu Palace.
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Curse You
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
Luxon win with 650 and they lost with 100faction per gates breached. They get faction way more faster than kurzick.
Second, there are too many way to counter a Bonded gate. Ranger, Mesmer, Necro, Ritualist, all of them can breach a bonded gate. The wating time doesnt make it unfair for Kurzick, the immobile stupid kurzick NPC does. |
Silver_Fang
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Originally Posted by Curse You
There are too many ways to counter the Seige Turtle. A Ranger, Mesmer, Necro, Warrior, Assassin, Monk, Ritualist, or Elementalist can counter them. Oh, wait, that's all existing professions, hmm...
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Whats your point?
aB-
Disorganized Luxon Team>Disorganized Kurzick Team
Organized Luxon Team<Organized Kurzick Team
I think for the most part we can agree on these two statements. The Kurzicks simply have more to worry about and require more specialized builds than the Luxons. Now how often do you see organized teams on a map like this where your teams are always random?
Another huge advantage the Luxons have has to do with the fact that they can end the game quicker. Most times I've played as a Luxon, the battle ended within 20-50% of the God's Vengence or we lost. This means more faction in the long run. I know I'm going to get someone that says "But wait! The Kurzicks can run amber back to Gunther to fuel the God's Vengence!" Don't even bother. If you have spare amber, it can be useful to help speed things up slightly, but your amber is better off going to the gatekeepers to win. And if for some reason you are able to run every piece of amber back to Gunther, you will still end the game slower than a fast Luxon team.
If you're going to lie, at least make it believable. Amber can not be given to any of the NPC's if they are under attack. If this, along with a couple other small things were changed, the map would be much more balanced.
Organized Luxon Team<Organized Kurzick Team
I think for the most part we can agree on these two statements. The Kurzicks simply have more to worry about and require more specialized builds than the Luxons. Now how often do you see organized teams on a map like this where your teams are always random?
Another huge advantage the Luxons have has to do with the fact that they can end the game quicker. Most times I've played as a Luxon, the battle ended within 20-50% of the God's Vengence or we lost. This means more faction in the long run. I know I'm going to get someone that says "But wait! The Kurzicks can run amber back to Gunther to fuel the God's Vengence!" Don't even bother. If you have spare amber, it can be useful to help speed things up slightly, but your amber is better off going to the gatekeepers to win. And if for some reason you are able to run every piece of amber back to Gunther, you will still end the game slower than a fast Luxon team.
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Originally Posted by gene terrodon
Once, at the very beginning, the Luxons breached the gates and were attacking Gunther from the start. 5 of us hunkered down and defended while 2 ran amber to him (screw the gates). We held them off and won (fast too). I had this happen a few times before and the result has always been the same, whether we had bonding monks, spirit spamming Rts or not (although, bonders and spirit spammers are FTW when defending).
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Savio
There's nothing here that isn't already floating around in threads here. Closed.