Skill Unlocks in the Guild Wars Store!

Ok, just saved this page and quote to my harddrive for futuer reference


Well that one can be debated untill kingdom come, personally I think it is time to separate PvE and PvP completly, there is no way that A-net can keep it on a level(fair) base anymore, as shown by the last shop edition PvP needs to be catered to in a way that will drive away PvE players who think they are not given the same options. And the further we get in the chapters the more A-net will have to baby the PvP base in order to keep new players competitive without having to catch up on 3 or more chapters.
This will further separet the allready diveded playerbase, so for the sake of the whole game(pvp and pve) please consider a separation.

Hey, If we didnt have the time or patience to unlock the skills and we could just pay for the skills...by that logic.

I dont have time or patience to gain rank. So how about I buy rank 6 from the store! Yay. Hey, it is just trading time for money. It doesnt affect anyone but me.

No. Players “opened the gate” when they let character slots be sold in an online store. You were told—warned if you prefer—that it wouldn’t stop there. If you didn’t complain then, its hypocritical to gripe when they do it again. I said it before, I’ll say it again: asking a gaming company to stop at one Pay to Upgrade is like asking the kids to behave and “don’t touch” after you’ve locked them inside the candy store alone for the night.

Well, I’m feeling a little generous today, so I’ll field that one for you Gaile. Some people don’t want to take the easy road. Some people, in fact, are offended that there is one. These are the kind of people who don’t like IWAY and solo farm builds because they “cheat the game”; make something that should be hard and tedious…not as hard or as tedious. I’m not saying bele is one of those people, but being one is certainly one reason why he might leave.

You see, before the UAS, you had to farm some Balth faction, PvE to unlock skills—learn at least a LITTLE bit about the game before you loaded a character’s bar up and started spamming for a group. Now? Anyone with 40 extra dollars in their pocket can UAS, get a build or two off guru and pop into HA spamming “Very experienced RC Prot LFG!” It’s not like someone couldn’t lie about being an experienced RC prot before, but he’d at the least have had to farm the 3000 balth faction for his elite if he PvEed the rest of his skills. After all, Restore Condition can be a pain to get some days in PvE; easier to buy it.

Before you could spot a newb by checking his skillbar. Don’t have the skill we need? Sorry, go back to RA for a little while, practice a little more and then come back. Learn more about the game dynamic, why its important to have this rune here, why you don’t want all superiors, etc. Now? Well, without UAX, its possible a few noobs are running around without knowing what a rune IS yet! Prebuilds were bad enough, just don't invite the "Paladin" Whammo. Now? Anyone, any build and no idea what they're doing.

And as for it being your/our choice? For the veterans, you’re prolly right. And wasted money for many of us; I already have Tyrian UAS for my core toons. But what about the guy who bought the game yesterday and decided not to buy UAS? What happens when he joins a PuG and finds he doesn’t have the skills they require? I can answer that. Typical PuG mentality is that the guy who spent 80 bucks does, so kick the freeloader and get someone “good”. Because of the way the games’ acquisition dynamic used to work, skill has dual meaning in this game.

From a certain point of view, you already have Either way, I put as much stock in what Anet and NCSoft tell you as what they tell me...and after recent events I'd like nothing more than to spit in their eyes and call them liars.

Hmm. Look a there; a direct reply on the issue at hand. Go ahead and delete this post too mods; you know you want to.

BTW: LoL

I assume you meant to say character slots.

Yeah. Edited.

oooo excruciating pain, I promised myself I would not post again in this thread but I simply can’t stand to the horror show of people misunderstanding everything and letting their imaginations rule their eyes.

I will try to avoid getting 2 long to create another "100 words" post (I already did it 3 times in this same thread) and keep everything simple and fresh (it’s hard not to repeat myself since the rants are always the same).

1. PVP unlocks affecting PVE is hard to believe. Runs exist so "rushing the PVE" is not new. The skills unlocks were a community request and they implemented it cause of us. Since begin of "droknars runs" I NEVER EVER saw anyone complaining about them, so why to start now with unlocks?! All I can see it is because people get mad when it gets to their pockets, but when it’s all about "making in-game $$" then no problem, tell me the concept of hypocrisy please...

2. PEOPLE!!! STOP MAKING THINGS UP!!! People following Anets "logic" is the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my 21 LONG LIVED years of life, side by with some other phrase I heard some years ago “I did not engage any sexual activities with my secretary” from youknowho. If you can’t even make a simply match arithmetic progression, DO NOT try to evaluate business models logics OK?!

3. Saying that because the player got the right skills he is (even in a RIDICULOIUSLY LOW LEVEL) better then some one that bought them is sad. This is not truth at all since he would be able to unlock the skills with a warrior then go play HA with his monk, OOOOO yes, tanking is a LOT similar to RC prot

O well, I guess I am done rebating all those rants about people that can’t even form a valid point to argue with. This IS my last post so fell free to quote myself at will because I will not respond. This IS a dead subject since unpacks are a community request and they are here to stay.

All I can see now is an ever growing thread occupying useless storage space on guru’s already full server, SO I vote for a close on this one once and for all as soon as possible.

ALSO, I know I am not in place to start giving advices, but if I would, I would say to Gayle to let this thread be. This subject is a dead one and it had been discussed a LOT of times before it was even implemented (as we all know). The reason why we might think that there is more people unhappy then the happy ones is because an OLD economic law: “one negative impression generates 10 negatives feedbacks, while positive ones generate five positives at best”.

Latter.



*** edited: got "GaIle" name's wrong on the first time.

[QUOTE]IN ORDER

i picked the AOE for the simple reason more people were affected and bitched much louder than the other.
even less vanished over EOE than AOE

that is clearly saying that you have to suffer exactly as i did and should not have anything in the game that makes it easier/more fun.

PERFECT EXAMPLE ARE THE VERY OLD POSTS YELLING THAT BRINGING IN FACTION TO GET SKILLS/RUNES/ETC CHEAPENS MY UAS

I GOT IT WITHOUT FACTION AND SO SHOULD YOU

SELFISH DONT YOU THINK?

yes i actually know what an example is.

if and when they do something like that you can count on me joining your side without any hesitation at all.

until and unless they do i still fail to see how a pvp only unlock will affect someone accomplishing something on the PVE side.

and i am only PVE except to get a bit of faction to unlock a skill for PVE

remember that even unlocked you still have to cap an elite and still have to have gotten skill points to buy the skill

Ex: Saying “The players asked for UAS” in the middle of a heated discussion between players who did want UAS and players who do NOT want it is an act of hypocrisy.

Now that’s cleared up…

1. I never asked for this. I say again, I bought a game that I believed told me I’d be spending my money every 6 months, one time every 6 months, and that was fine with me. If “the players” asked for this, why are so many players complaining here? People on WoW forums get bored and decide to have a little fun on our guru? Speak for yourself and stop putting words in my mouth for the sake of community. There is a split between people who thought this was a good idea and people who thought this was RED ENGINE GOREDing STUPID! If there weren’t two sides to this, the thread would have died quite a while ago, wouldn’t it?

2. I make nothing up. Elitism is a fact of this game. There are good people, there are bad people, and there are jerks(catch me certain times of the day and I can be one of all three). All of them exist in this game, all of them may show elitism for any reason—from good people protecting a less experienced friend from a hard mission/group due to another player’s perceived inexperience to bad people who just like to jerk someone’s chain and see them get angry—and we will, all of us, have to play with one type or another eventually…unless you hench “offline” with all chats turned off.

3. It is very sad when player’s make judgments on another player’s skill without ever playing with them or speaking to them. All the more sad because it happens every day in this game. I have a Tyrian friend who was called several choice names as he was kicked out of a vent server and out of his HA team because he didn’t have Factions so could not respec to a Blessed Light build. He’s an excellent monk, despite his lack of BL. The group he was in called him a noob anyway. Depending on the size of your friends list, many of you here may know of or have been confronted by this type of elitism. those who have not? Play a little longer and you will be.

No, not really.


What is the real difference, aside from the added possibility of the 'cosmetic' argument, between this and buying gold on ebay? Figuratively, of course, before you blow off and misread that, but either way, it's taking short cuts through the game. Shortcuts that should not even be optional. People think, "Why do I have to farm to make gold to buy the flash things or the things i absolutely need, I can ebay", "Why do I have to play low level pvp, or make friends to get into groups for higher level pvp to unlock skills, when I can just buy a pack and a rank on ebay and i'm leet"

"I want an axe and can't even get enough money to buy one from weapons crafter" "Oh wait.. I can ebay it!!" *ebays, buys*


"I want this skill, but don't have the 1-3k faction or the 1plat and a skill point earn it/buy it" "Oh wait.. I can credit card it!"

You can argue the selfish angle all that you want. It just doesn't slice. It isn't so much about, I did it, you should have to as well, as much as it is, I did it, you should be able to as well. In a game about skill over time, and over what you can afford to have, because everything is accessable for little or no cost, it doesn't make sense to offer skills for real world money when they are obtainable for no cost and obtainable through a demonstration in skill. Faction is so easily earned it is sickening.

What difference should it make that, in AN's viewpoint, people in the future are going to be so desperate for pvp in this game, that they absolutely will spend hundreds of dollars on the original game, + its expansions + its skill unlock packs. I think AN is getting way too ahead of themselves on this one. Instead of worrying about a new way to jilt people for cash in their store, how about they work on what the majority of people want.


Plus the added stab of them actually expecting people to buy the game seperately and having to pay another good chunk of money just to speed unlock that chapters skills. Come on...

Are you accusing me of lying, Gaile?

If so, I don't think you would mind if I posted the uncensored version of the list, right?

(note to triggerhappy mods: I'm being facetious. But in my vast wisdom, I created an uncensored version. If Galie forces me to draw my hand, so be it.)

Yes, shadowfell is right. I took over 100 screenshots to make that chatlog. I don't think you want to see all of them.

She is NOT accusing you of lying. She is pointing out, exactly as I did, that the PUGers in HA are a poor representation of the entire Guild Wars population.

Your argument is moot, since as of now, you are required to already own a chapter before buying skills packages for it. In effect, it is time for money.

As for the pricing, I still do not see why it could not have been free. I'll freely
admit that I do not have access to information that ANet's business planning or customer relations department has, but UAS is essentially a one-time cost. The structure for determining which skills are unlocked for any account already exists and is a sunken cost which can be ignored, and unlike say new character slots which require storage, all it would require would be a script to flip those bits indicating that every skill has been unlocked. I understand and empathise with the need to charge for character slots, but the charging (at the price of nearly an entire chapter by itself) for skill packs is quite simply pure unadulterated profit.


Since ANet doesn't conduct in-game surveys (not that I know of), we can safely assume that communication is pretty much through Gaile chats, forums (like these), emails to Customer service and perhaps alpha testers. Given that half of the four avenues are open for public viewing by and large, while I cannot confidently say that it is possible to track the playerbase demands, it should be easy enough to get a pulse on what player trends are.

In either case, this has nothing to do with my argument. There is nothing to conclude that ANet will not go down the slippery slope. On the contrary, these skill packs stand as a clear example that they will. For a long time a subset of the population requested for it and was outrightly denied it. Polls (on GWOnline) indicated that a sizeable majority of the forum population didn't really like the idea. Yet here we are today.

Perhaps I'm alone in this regard, but I firmly believe that MMOs should never venture into the time-for-money trading market. Stick to offering unique products that cannot be obtained otherwise such as new dances, auras, etc. But NEVER NEVER stick fingers into game mechanics which can be earned through time otherwise, and if you have to do so, make it a free option applicable for all. Otherwise, you risk changing to much of the gaming dynamics and falling down into a deeper slope.

Thanks shadowfell thats my point excatly.

The AOE AI fix was just THAT a fix to the AI it WAS NOT a nerf. Nerfs are caused 99% of the time by moaning pvpers. Personaly I saw a lot less moaing about the aoe ai fix than i did about the eoe nerf. Maybe I was'nt checking the gwg forums at the time but I did'nt see much about it.

For me a nerf is when a skill, item or character class is made less usefull because of complaing and moaning pvpers. Not when bugs are fixed in the AI or how items work. EG Makeing the knights armour only work for the place where its worn is a FIX. Changeing the + armour to +physical armour is a Nerf.

I agree with stockholm its time to at least consider a total and complete seperation of pvp and PVE. So any and all nerfs to pvp do NOT effect PVE.

Post away zinger

To all of you naysayers who talk like this grants people who buy it a special advantage, I will let you know the next time we lose a GvG because the other team had skills unlocked we didn't.

I dont really like it, it compares to eBaying gold imo.

Well personally, I dont feel like trudging through what is for me 18 pages of people alternatly praising ANet and pissing and moaning about.

Ill say this.
I have my account fully unlocked, I both pve'd and pvp'd for it.
I do not feel my account cheapened, nor my time spent cheapened for them offering this up in the store (i did initially, but then I woke up)
All this will do is allow dedicated pvpers to get a secondary (or tertiary) account up to speed quicker, or allow someone with some money to burn to get a slight head start on learning the in's and out's of pvp. Nothing more, nothing less. This does not in ANY way give someone an advantage over someone else, just simply a potential head start.
Nothing in this game replaces experience playing, at all. Yeah someone who buys that happy UAX R9+ account on ebay might get into groups quicker, but they wont stay in said groups very long.

As far as selling other items in the online store. So what if they sell the GOTY edition weapons and such? Personally Id like being able to buy all the neat preview weapons, or say Divine aura? without having to drop $50 on another copy of the game.
The preview/CE edition/Preorder/whatever weapons are hardly unbalanced. Realistically the only usable ones are the shield and hammer. (for pvp) and even then, you cant use the hammer on a pvp character because it has no grip.

Its doubtful that ANet will sell FoW/15k/Greens/Golds/Whatever in the online store for one reason: None of that stuff is NECCESSARY TO PLAY THE GAME.
People are missing the point.
The goal was to be competative without HAVING to grind.
However for those who wanted to grind, they would be rewarded, with fancy armor, weapons, etc.
The "dream" is still there, and not tainted by these packs of skills in the slightest.

Personally, the profit is there, Nightfall better be five times the game that factions is/was. Im not expecting another Prophecies, but god damn Factions was friggin TINY. If they take this new income source and turn it into bigger and better games for those who do pvp and pve, hey, who cares?
And if we are going to get another factions, stop charging us $50 for half a game.
Dont even get me started on factions elite skills...

-Wrynn

Stop beating on an already dead subject. What is done is done, and currently I am not surprised, Anet is about making money, period. If they don't then GW goes under and we start playing different games who make you pay monthly fees.

Is that what you want MONTHLY FEES, because that is what will happen if they can't make money somehow!!!.

But who cares, skill unlocks only effect PvP, those players who decided to go PvE will have a rude awakening when they learn they need to make game money to buy skills all over again, and as we all know PvE and PvP use different skills and tactics for the most part.

I look at it this way, if you want to be lazy then buy the skills and learn to play PvP, if you want a challenge, then play PvE and buy plus earn the skills, really nothing has change except now if you so desire, you can come up with your own builds with out have to use premades in order to gain faction in order to buy skills, now they can use faction for upgrades and runes.

But just for prophetcies, still need faction for GW faction and soon GW Nightfall, so relax all you players, you will always have an advantage, because you have the knowledge and skills to abtain anything you want faster then anyone just coming into the game.

First off, if you werent in int districts, well, i dont trust what little validity this has.

Biased a bit? You claim Yellow is neutral/agree, yet you have
"While Im not interested in buying it myself, I have (heres the important bit) no problem with them doing it for those that want them" And they are coded BLACK. Not the Yellow NEUTRAL that it should be.
Next up:
"I think it is a waste of money" Thats far more neutral, no bias either way.
Next:
"Im UaX and I dont care... let people waste their money." Hardly against it.
Next:
"ok... I would never buy it, I need something to spend balth faction on" Hardly against it also. Hell, it even STARTS WITH THE WORD "OK"
Next up!
"its dumb wasting real money on skills" this is hardly stating a position, only a personal position on the item(s) in question.
Next!
"arenanet just sold them self (sic) lol" Again, hardly a position either way, just personal input.

I could go through and basically discredit the whole thing, run totals and yadda yadda, but you know what? Its not worth it. Too many of your persons against it, are simply stating that THEY would never use it, and never actually set a position on wether they care that its there.
EDIT: Persons stating that ANet went overboard or made a stupid move, is also not technically against it, as there is no position stated there, only "LOLZ ANET IS DUM"

I think you went a bit overboard and threw your OWN opinions into this.

Next time ask a more detailed question and ask for more detailed responses.

Thank you.

Black responses are negative, yellow are positive.

I would say that a majority of his "study" was correct. He wanted a sampling of opinions from the environment, and I would say most of them were negative toward the subject. I believe it is indicative of the mentality towards this PvP unlock feature.

I think if A-net had an official poll, the results would be similar.

Personally, I think it cheapens the efforts I've been making to unlock pvp skills. For some reason, there just doesn't seem to be a point when I know I could unlock everything I need for 9.99.

What makes me laugh are these people that go "OMG ANET HAZ 2 MAKE MONEYS U NUB OR THEY GO BANKRUPTZ LOL!!!11" .... you do realize that A-net isn't some "struggling company" hanging on by it's toenails to stay afloat don't you? They made more money than god on prophecies and factions... hell Propehies still sells for 40 bucks at places, and it's over a year old. Not to mention Guild Wars is not the only A-net project. They've got Lineage (monthly fee) among a bunch of other mmos and games.

I think A-net is flirting with a slippery slope here, and it's only a matter of time before more powerful features become "pay to own" instead of "earn to own".... I wouldn't even call it a matter of if, but a matter of when.

All I can say is wake up and smell the coffee. This is the real world, and it is not about what you want, it's about making money and keeping up with the competitors. There are always ten others where you come from who would welcome the change.

I am sure Anets competitors do the same thing, but given right now GW has become a solo product in the way of most online games as being no online fees.

I am sure you are smart enough to know that Anet may have tens of millions in overhead across the world, and tons of employees to pay, as well as other avenues to explore. It's a business, but you make it sound like it's a couple of people in a garage somewhere with one or two servers.

They don't look at how many players they will lose, and quite frankly all those who have bitch, I bet will keep their investment, 10 dollars or 40 dollars over some skills is far less then 120 dollars a year per fees, given if they sold it as expansions, core game 50 dollars + explansions, two infact, factions and sorrows Furness, 20 each so 40 + 120 in fees and for a total of 210 dollars plus, over 50 + 50= 100 dollars, skills optional, and you still get the full experence.

Granted expansion are optional, as well as other new games, still in the end less money, yes it may sound negative, but hey it's the truth.

I think you are confusing several different forces into glib phrases. Let me try to unmash the issue slightly:

1. Paying to unlock primarily PvP content: What these skill unlock packs do. Note that this category does not include earnable PvP content such as fame or faction points and PvP titles, which is point 2:
2. Paying to obtain earnable PvP content: This will kill the game overnight, so it will never happen. No matter how much you think ArenaNet or NCSoft are money grubbing corporations, you have to agree that they are not stupid.
3. Paying to obtain earnable PvE content: What many fear will result from 1. In this category are such things as paying to obtain money, 15k/FoW armor, rare greens, etc. This is perhaps a gray area because you can then use your bought money to buy yourself drunkard titles and stuff, which is clearly undesirable. But there is some room for good sense to prevail here.
4. Paying to obtain non-earnable but balanced PvE content: What is mostly undiscussed in this thread, but as such presents fewer ethical problems than 3 above. In this category are such things as paying for brand new weapon skins, face models, armor models, etc. I personally don't have any problem with this category as this content will be purely classified as "extra". I never bought any of the prerelease packs and I don't find myself pining for the Spiritbinder that I can never have.
5. Paying to obtain unbalanced PvE content: What I expect will never happen as long as the PvE-PvP coupling remains intact, but it is definitely a possibility. Many PvE players will be happy with this, I expect.
6. Paying to obtain unbalanced PvP content such as weapons or armor: What will kill the game the moment it's implemented.

Losers...

If you're afraid of a newbie [hint, noobie, someone who does NOT now how to play this game...] can just BUY their skills and then become more able to kill and win than yourself, you obviously need to reconsider wtf you're doing and stop whining like a baby.

I don't need 450 skills to kick your asses. I'm already running championship builds using barely 150... or rather, 100...

Yeesh... Buy a clue, not more skills...

Ah yes. The primary argument of most people supporting this latest decision. We don't pay monthly fees so they have to get money from us somehow right?

DID YOU STEAL THE GAME??? DID THEY LOAD IT UP ON YOUR PC FREE OF CHARGE??? They are making money off us. About 80 million dollars gross on games sales if prices are comparable across international lines. That's not pulling numbers out of my rear; thats mulitplying the 2 million copies of GW Anet reports sold by $40. If the people running Anet can't make, distribute and manage 3 games (I'm including NightFall) then you need to stop asking them to take more of your moeny and start asking them what the RED ENGINE GORED they are doing with the money you already gave them.

I'm going to be frank with those of you fearing the monthly fee in Guild Wars: guild Wars is an extremely dumbed down version of MMOs that require mothly fees to opperate. From graphics to gameplay interface to player customizability to the game world itself, the first Everquest--a seven year old game--blows Guild Wars out of the water every time. Everquest 2--still years older than GW--would be like comparing a tinker toy to PS3.

Lower game quality and bare bones character customizabilty are the price you've payed for no monthly fees. Guild Wars and Anet are hardly the first gaming industry to offer free online servers either; their just the first ORPG...and not the last.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm not going to read all 28 pages of this thread, but...

I stopped playing GW months ago. I used to be the BIGGEST homer of the game. I've finished the game (both chapters) with seven different characters.

Think about how much PVE that is.

I've also done more than my share of PVP, including GvG, HA, RA, etc.

And it's just too much.

Probably the part that got to me the most was the developers starting to sell character slots. At that time, I complained about how they were attempting to milk every last red penny they could out of the franchise. I also predicted that there was more to come, that if they could think of other ways to squeeze the player base for their hard earned cash, they will.

Well, here it is. Phase 2.

I spent months searching for bosses across all of tyria and cantha capping skills. I painstakenly crossed each elite off my list, until I had capped every single core profession's skills one by one. This means having to endure such painful runs as the northern shiverpeaks around copperhammer mines, going up to dreadnoughts drift for FoC. Redoing mineral springs over and over because of jerks dropping as soon as they cap the skill THEY needed.

It was a self satisfying accomplishment.

Now, poof, it's all meaningless. All that work now can be bought by anyone with a credit card.

Next, it'll be buying FoW armor "sets". Or Rank emotes. Whatever. Trust me, this isn't the last thing you'll be scrambling to pay for, in addition to the boxed collectors editions to get the next mini-pet, or skill pin sets.

Also, for folks discussing how much money NCSoft has made off GW - you're right, it's a HUGE amount of money. But the game doesn't exist in a vacumn - anyone play Auto Assault lately? This is a case where GW is covering NCSoft's major miscues in other titles. You'[re essentially paying for other failures.

So, expect to see this activity continue, and get even more ridiculous.

I seriously don't give a damn about capping skills now. Since this update, i know that i can buy it from the store so that i can make any pvp characters i wanted. The only reason now to buy cap signet is to get those skills that is useful in pve.

This has to be the stoopedest issue in the whole of Guildwars history.

Of all completely pointless things there are in the world to be upset about, people chose to be upset by how other people obtain skills?

You can buy this clue in the in game store for $9.99: It doesn't concern you and is none of your business how other people chose play their game.

Deal with it.

Buying the unlock pack is like ordering a pizza and then paying the delivery guy to eat it for you.

If you are going to be competitive in PvP at the top levels, you need to use a PvE character anyway, so that you can keep multiple sets of armor in your inventory (like the +35 health set vs spike or degen teams), as well as have a big set of weapons in your inventory, for every occasion. There are also various items you cannot create on PvP characters (e.g. shield of +30 health, +10ar vs lightning), so there are still advantages to PvE characters.

I for one, are glad they did it, Now I won't have to listen to all the PVPers WHINING about having to collect skills. and on top of it they get to spend more money for something I got free SWEET !!!!

Who cares, we asked for the option to buy slots we got it, i never had a problem with 4 slots for 1 game, that is personall opinion but its hardly milking us to the last penny.

Clearly you didnt enjoy it, so why did you do it at all, sadism?

Im not just flaming from the hip, what kind of an accomplishment is that, i learnt to play the piano, i learnt to drive, i donated blood, i sat and pointlessly grinded and capped skills whilst not enjoying it, just so i could say id done it. Obviosly we will not agree on this, 2 different mind sets.

Im just showing you what the other side feels, there is no accomplishent from unlocking skills. its boring, it holds no satisfaction, it feels like work, its nothing but a means to an end, and that is to......


The accomplishment and satisfaction comes from making/trying a new build and pulling it off with some degree of skill.

ANYONE with enough time can cap them, few can use them effectivly.

(no im not claiming to be leet)

Surely THATS where the satisfaction should come from, not knowing you have 415 unlocked and the other person has 300, but by using what you have BETTER than the other guy.

It's a way for the less active members to unlock skills they want to try but paying for it is a bit to farfetched IMO....

That's just silly. Squeezing money out of people means forcing them to pay. Like, "we're upgrading our servers, pay us $15 or we'll ban your account". That kind of thing doesn't generally go over well - unless the $15-per-remaining player comes to a greater total than the potential earnings from the players turned off by it, it's not financially sound. Offering optional items for optional purchase doesn't do that.

There are three kinds of things they can sell. 1: those that are optional, and make a difference. 2: those that are optional, and don't make a difference. And 3: those that are essential Account keys, for starters, but depending on how you look at it, UAS +/- UAX as well. For a serious PvP player, skill unlocks are pretty much essential - you need to have (virtually) every skill unlocked and available. This isn't free - like anything, it has its costs. There used to be only one way to pay for it: time. Time is money. You already bought your UAS if you manually unlocked every skill - bought it with time. Again, Time = Money. In this context the two are interchangeable. One can be substituted for the other.

The store has offered two things so far. The first is character slots - which are optional. Having more character slots does not make you a better player or give you any advantage, so they belong to the second category. The second is of course skill unlocks - which, to the serious PvP player, are not optional, putting it in the third category. All this does is allow our aspiring gladiator to spend his hard-earned cash as opposed to his hard-earned leisure time.

As for the other things you mentioned, I couldn't care less if they sold skill pins, mini-pets, or FoW armour. All of the above are functionally useless. They make no difference. They're extraneous. They're superficial. They're essentially pointless. I can't say that enough times. Buy them, buy them not, I don't care. What'd be the point?

According to ANet's philosophy, there are no category 1 items in Guild Wars and never will be. Category 2 items, they can sell by the boatload - I for one won't care. Category 3 items are harder to work out, but as long as they restrict themselves to letting players invest money instead of time for already-existing items, I won't care about that one either.

Hey it's a choice to buy skills or not, and it really doesn't matter how they are obtained, we all have the option.

Now most players will not excersise that option, because we have most of the skills, and know we can unlock them with faction or gold, so we are not effected, we also know how to play the game and are constantly honing our skills.

So what is the big deal!!! People lose the dam pride argument, and move on already.

I can see now this is not about money or greed or anything else besides a players PRIDE.

Don't like the idea, fine don't buy the skills. They are not forcing you too, but then again how many of you complain about ebay selling gold, as much as you complain about this subject. That is a far worse thing then selling skills that only effect one part of the game, PvP.

And I know for a fact that if Anet really wanted to piss you off, they would add the FoW armor skin to PvP character creation process, not sell it.

Some of you really need to go to school and learn how a business operates, because I can see that you think that once you buy a game it means you own everything or can dictate everything (Wrong). You want to make a real change, then quit complaining and orginize a BOYCOTT, that will make them listen.

Otherwise stop waving your fists in anger, swallow your pride and start playing again or move on.

Thats just bs... sry, but don't got any other word for it.

Char slots: I am sooo darn happy I can buy more char slots, finally I could make a MM for only 8 euros. Does it concern you that ppl like to buy more slots, you can't expect them to give you unlimited server space.

and this whole discussion of these unlock packs is just plain ridiculous.

Some questions you need to ask yourself:

Does having all skills make you a good PvP player? No, even ppl who have unlocked 8 skills can overpower you.

Does it bother you that some ppl only like the PvP aspect of the game and hate it to go through the PvE content more then once to get all skills? No, only thing that matters is that YOU enjoy the game and how YOU do this has nothing to do how others do it.

What ppl need to understand is that you only have to look at how can I have fun with this game, not how others enjoy/play the game. This is just a game.. nothing more (k, this game is best ever made, thats what I think) if you don't like it, don't whine and quit, if you love the game but have some issues with it then you form a decent discussion.

Another discussion that has been thrown up is the discussion of that Anet is a bussiness, well... offcourse it is, but that doesn't mean that they will try to make money out of everything. If it wasn't about the major requests of the player base (that means YOU) they wouldn't have added this online store, but it was because WE asked for char slots, because the PvP players asked for a way to get fully unlocked without going through the whole darn game many times that they added this feature. So leave the discussion about Anet beeing a bussiness, everyone just has to keep in mind that you can't get everything for free.

So what do we realise, well we realise that it doesn't matter what ppl think of your play style, as long as you enjoy it, nothing matters (when its not illegal offcourse).

Makes me think of my filo courses

There is plenty of threads on that subject.

Makes no diffrence, it's allready for sale on e-bay

Sounds like one of A-nets backside lickers, you get browni points for posting here?

Honestly, I think this is the best reponse ive seen so far.
All of you naysayers need to wake up.
So what that they sell skill packs?
This doesnt change one single thing in the game but allow people to roll more complex pvp characters quicker.
Last I checked, almost every single top guild has players ON PVE CHARACTERS PVPING. Why? The answer is quite simple, pvp characters just arent able to be versatile in game. Ranger with only two bows? warrior with only two weapons and only two shields/offhands?

So what does this change in the current state of the game? Nothing.
Not a single thing. People will still roll pvps on that rare occasion that they need one. And more often than not they will use their specced out, tricked out pve characters, and not just for the style factor, but simply because, in a situation thats as dynamic as the high end pvp in guild wars, having that extreme versatility in game is without compare.

Ive been messing around on an alt account, getting some fame, and you know what? To me, not being on my pve monk is like crimes against.... i dunno, something important.

I PERSONALLY will not ever buy the skill packs, because I dont need them, I enjoy new pve content enough to go out of my way to make sure I get all the new monk skills I need to stay current in pvp (and any secondary skills or elites as well).


All of you against this, not one of you has put up a suitable argument against it. You are acting like these skill packs, if you purchase the warrior one, you shall become Bloodlight Paladin! or buy the monk one and now you are Stepn Wedding, or some equally stupid BS like that.

i prefer to cap its more fun

@wrynn... i know pve vs pve has been talked before... but you can buy your victo's (just to say one) for pvp char then customize it in guild hall (if you
have the weapon guy)... now you have more than 2 sets...
Sooner or later ha will be filled again (overpopulated i mean) with sellers

i'm sure they'll soon will add an armor switcher/crafter in the gh... so more sets for pvp chars
secondary prof changer is already in temple... hope that he will come soon in GH...

anyway skill unlock pack mean nothing to me... capping skills and items is fun (even frustrating sometimes... mineral sping anyone?)... that's only another way to allow lazy players to unlock skills... btw... i hope (but i fear so) we will never see a 15k kurzik monk or fow ele armors available as off-game object buyable by anyone ...

Has anyone else noticed the second a dissaproving view of arena nets action is taken in a thread, a wave of newly registered/seldom posting, people wash up to talk about how wonderful AN is, and how ingenious they must be for such and such activity? (I mean, aside from the usual ball holders)

Character slots SAVED me cash

I bought 2 accounts when Prophecies was released because I wanted to play all 6 Core classes PVE (without deleting)

when Factions was released - I only bought 1 copy
(my 2nd account was not upgraded)

when character slots were announced I bought 3 slots
this was *still cheaper* than buying another copy of Factions for my 2nd acct


the best part of Character slots?
- my 9 character slots are valid for all future chapters on soley one account to upgrade
- skill unlocks are valid for the *same account*

before character slots,
I would have had to buy future chapters for both of my accounts


complaining about extra Character slots is short sighted

what would you rather do?
buy multiple accounts and upgrade them all with each chapter?!?