Enemy tengu - Overpowered?

Addone_Abaddon

Addone_Abaddon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Jersey, Channel Islands

Perfection Is Everything [PiE]

W/

I think they are, I dunno why, but no matter what level a tengu is, say 2 level 13 caromi tengu can almost wipe out a party of 8 level 20s, I dunno why, they just seem invincible, and the warriors best defense (bonetti's defense) doesn't work on them, they are also almost invulnerable to any melee attacks. Everyone I know hates them, and for some reason, the tengu of cantha on our side, talon and so on, seem extremely weak compared to other tengu, talon silverwing is always the first to die after the healer.

I like a challenge, but most people agree that tengu are rediculously overpowered, and there's no builds against them.

They also prevent me from trying to get the ice breaker, I need a running build if I wanna get the slightest chance to get past them to the grawls, but there's no farming/running builds, and I can't farm with a running build.

Neriandal Freit

Neriandal Freit

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Spiral of The Red Rose, Kryta (Columbus, IN)

Heros of Titans Realm [HotR]

E/

They dont bother me, they're a good AI Challenge for me like the Jade Brotherhood members are.

Tobias Funke

Tobias Funke

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Following of Xanthar

Me/N

I'd like to see 2 level 13 tengu almost take out a party of 8 level 20's. I can't even imagine how bad you have to be to let that happen.

Silent Kitty

Silent Kitty

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

Netherlands

[TYW] "The Young World"

A/Me

Everything you encounter in Cantha is overpowered, but not invincible. Do as most people do, die, go back after being resurrected and try again. That is the strategy many use.
Tengu are pretty stupid. Send the hench in first, and than deal with them one by one. That is how my Assassin kills them. Let the hench draw the attention away from you.

Addone_Abaddon

Addone_Abaddon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Jersey, Channel Islands

Perfection Is Everything [PiE]

W/

I try and deal them one by one, but henchmen just go out and attack

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

But you gotta love the sound they make.

Mournblade

Mournblade

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2005

Houston, Texas

Dawn Treaders [DAWN]

W/Mo

CTRL + DblClick on an enemy and your henchies will focus on that one. Focus on the most dangerous mobs first (Guiles and Wisdoms for example) and kill them. I admit they're rough, but they are definatly not invincible.

Curse You

Curse You

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

South Pole

The Magus Order

N/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Addone_Abaddon
They also prevent me from trying to get the ice breaker, I need a running build if I wanna get the slightest chance to get past them to the grawls, but there's no farming/running builds, and I can't farm with a running build.
Are you sure there isn't a build that can do both?

Mr_T_bot

Mr_T_bot

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neriandal Freit
They dont bother me, they're a good AI Challenge for me like the Jade Brotherhood members are.
Jade Brotherhood AI sucks, the Knights are just really, really buff. Tengu are actually a challenge.

Dirty Panda

Dirty Panda

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2005

California

Order of TeH Cookie [NIBL]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Addone_Abaddon
say 2 level 13 caromi tengu can almost wipe out a party of 8 level 20s.
wow

Addone_Abaddon

Addone_Abaddon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Jersey, Channel Islands

Perfection Is Everything [PiE]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
Are you sure there isn't a build that can do both?
ooo, thanks, is it W/Mo, since it's my only level 20 role-playing characted

heist23

Journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2005

R/Mo

If you search enough in the Farming forum, you should find a W/Mo build for Icebreaker farming. I used one to get mine, but I've forgotten the build...

Back to the original topic, Tengus aren't overpowered, they just have powerful skills that you normally don't run into. You'll find them in more balanced groups, too. They just pose more of a challenge than any other monster(s) in the game.

Chilly Ress

Chilly Ress

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2005

Kinetic Fusion [kF]

Me/

Nothing in PvE is OP.

DeanBB

DeanBB

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Arizona

Wizardry Players Guild, http://4guildwars.7.forumer.com

Quote:
say 2 level 13 caromi tengu can almost wipe out a party of 8 level 20s
Wait, is "caromi tengu" some other language for Glint?

No two PvE enemies are a match for any average team of 8 level 20's. Even if you get defeated by them you can figure out their strengths and weaknesses and build to counter them.

If nothing else, look up the enemy that is causing you trouble on guildwiki, see what skills they use, and come prepared to deal with them.

I'm thinking these are in the Kryta area (level 13?) and there are way more than 2 coming to attack the team.

Mr_T_bot

Mr_T_bot

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanBB
I'm thinking these are in the Kryta area (level 13?) and there are way more than 2 coming to attack the team.
They are, and the average party size there is about 1 million.

Shadow_7

Shadow_7

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Raiders of Gilead

W/R

I can killed all but the avicara guile with my vengeful ritualist. I usually do my run from the cave and take out trolls, avicaras (except guile), giants and grawls/mighty grawls; however, no ice breaker drop for me yet

tONYY

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
But you gotta love the sound they make.

WORD!

Addone_Abaddon

Addone_Abaddon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Jersey, Channel Islands

Perfection Is Everything [PiE]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot
They are, and the average party size there is about 1 million.
I have fought two with a party of 6 level 16 hench, they killed us all and bearly lost health, I don't have a clue how, they have no healing.

I was level 20 aswell


I hate having to fight loads of tengu though, they're like assasins, real life assasins, not weak assasins on the game.

That's another thing I've noticed though, assasin players seem to be really weak (not the players, the profession), though assasin enemies, oni and so on seem to really assasinate. Even lesser (level 9) onis are strong.

I pwnd U

I pwnd U

God of Spammers

Join Date: Oct 2005

in the middle of a burning cornfield...

Scars Meadows [SMS] (Officer)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Addone_Abaddon
I think they are, I dunno why, but no matter what level a tengu is, say 2 level 13 caromi tengu can almost wipe out a party of 8 level 20s, I dunno why, they just seem invincible, and the warriors best defense (bonetti's defense) doesn't work on them, they are also almost invulnerable to any melee attacks.
Whenever i decide to go ettin farming i usually have to take on 2 groups of 2, a mesmer and ranger. I dont have a problem with them. It really matters which you take out first. I always go for the Mesmer first since it cause degen, the ranger really doesnt do anything. Yes they are harder then some of the other enemies out there but i dont think we would enjoy a game that you could solo completely. Would take the point out of it being an online multiplayer game.

Addone_Abaddon

Addone_Abaddon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Jersey, Channel Islands

Perfection Is Everything [PiE]

W/

it's the mesmer tengu that make them so hard, I forgot to mention, I was also reffering to these groups of 2 tengu, it sucks being a warrior, they use conjure phantasm, then inturrupt healing signet, which then takes ages to load because it's been inturrupted, even though Cry of frustration is now used up, the conjure phantasm is charged and they use it on you again, and by the time healing signet is charged, you're dead.


I try and run past them and stop inbetween the other pair of tengu and heal, but that doesn't always work, sometimes they're closer together and follow to the middle, encouraging you to keep running, they use conjure phantasm again and cry of frustration or make you run into the other pair who then kill you.

Shadow_7

Shadow_7

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Raiders of Gilead

W/R

As I pwnd u said, when i'm with my warrior (W/R)for ettin farming I have to kill 2 groups of 2 and I don't encounter any problems killing them. Mesmer first, then ranger.

Fungus Amongus

Fungus Amongus

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare] | [Rare] Alliance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Addone_Abaddon
it's the mesmer tengu that make them so hard, I forgot to mention, I was also reffering to these groups of 2 tengu, it sucks being a warrior, they use conjure phantasm, then inturrupt healing signet, which then takes ages to load because it's been inturrupted, even though Cry of frustration is now used up, the conjure phantasm is charged and they use it on you again, and by the time healing signet is charged, you're dead.


I try and run past them and stop inbetween the other pair of tengu and heal, but that doesn't always work, sometimes they're closer together and follow to the middle, encouraging you to keep running, they use conjure phantasm again and cry of frustration or make you run into the other pair who then kill you.
All you need to do is use a skill that's unneccesary at the moment until they waste their Cry of Frustration, then use Healing Signet. It's that easy.

Hyper Cutter

Hyper Cutter

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Knights of the White Eye [HINA]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot
Jade Brotherhood AI sucks, the Knights are just really, really buff.
Mages are almost as bad (especially when they start spamming Dragon Stomp), except they're a hell of a lot less durable...

Curse You

Curse You

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

South Pole

The Magus Order

N/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter
Mages are almost as bad (especially when they start spamming Dragon Stomp), except they're a hell of a lot less durable...
Double Dragon, really fun for assassins

Hockster

Hockster

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Addone_Abaddon
I have fought two with a party of 6 level 16 hench, they killed us all and bearly lost health, I don't have a clue how, they have no healing.

I was level 20 aswell


I hate having to fight loads of tengu though, they're like assasins, real life assasins, not weak assasins on the game.

That's another thing I've noticed though, assasin players seem to be really weak (not the players, the profession), though assasin enemies, oni and so on seem to really assasinate. Even lesser (level 9) onis are strong.
You, and the OP, need to go back to pre-searing and actually learn the game.

natuxatu

natuxatu

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Wisconsin

Rt/Mo

Actually I'd have to agree.. the two lvl 13 taking over a lvl 20 party is a little over exagerating but I honestly have noticed out of all the enemies i've come across on my journey when i hit the Tengu over by Kryta they are toughies.

I've always thought that too.

Addone_Abaddon

Addone_Abaddon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Jersey, Channel Islands

Perfection Is Everything [PiE]

W/

this was back when I didn't have a build, I'll drag random sword skills and place attributes where they can go, but I still can't solo 2 caromi tengu

arcanemacabre

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

I'm at a loss... I mean sure, the Tengu are a bit tougher than other mobs of equal level, but they're not [2 vs. 8 lvl 20's] tough. As others have said, Ettin farming you run into two groups of two... no problems here.

Honestly, I rarely have a problem taking on one of the groups of five just before hitting North Kryta Province, though they have been known to kick my ___. Then again, if not prepared, a same-sized group of undead can do the same, so they're of the right caliber for that area of the game, methinks.

Griff Mon

Griff Mon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

In the Elfen Forests of Washington State

Damage Radius

N/

Tengu by Kryta are a cakewalk.

Please.

MM FTW.

Mow through them like butter, solo. I get them on my way to the Ettins because of occasional Rune Drops, some dye drops, and an easy place to get lots of Tanned Hide.

madman420

madman420

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

If the tengu are giving you trouble then stay the hell away from the avicara.

Silent Kitty

Silent Kitty

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

Netherlands

[TYW] "The Young World"

A/Me

Once you are in a fine tuned Guild party, you'll notice that they aren't that strong. All it takes is some brains and players who know what they are doing. Lose the "Gogogogo!" mentality. People who shout that should be ejected from the party.

Arturo02

Arturo02

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

See that third planet from the sun?

Sacred Forge Knights

R/Me

Wait until you face the avicara. Tengu on steroids.

edit: just noticed madman beat me to it on that one.

Sol Deathgard

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Shadows of the Dragon

W/N

Ok here is why the tengu that the op is talking about is tough. the sword

warriors use Riposte and seeking blade, thats a block that does a lot of dmg that is spammable & an unblockable attack that causes bleeding if it is "blocked" can't be evaded.

The Axe wars use Swift chop & Defensive stance, A Stance for blocking and another unblockable attack that causes Deep wound if it is "blocked" & can't be evaded

The Fierces are not a problem, RtW & Point Blank Shot

Then of course the Seers, the mesmers

Shatter enchant, Cry & Conjur Phantomtasm

basiclly you need monks to heal, without enchants, casters to kill the wars, and the wars to kill the mesmers & the Rangers. simple. If you're still having problems, this is why you shouldn't get ran through the game.

prism2525

prism2525

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Among dead bodies.

The Republic of Sky Pirates

E/

I killed those tengus with my ele. How could you lose??

(what i use against them is a lot of AoE and DoT spells, like phoenix, bed of coals, lava font, the mandatory fireball etc.

I agree with Hockster, go to pre again

Addone_Abaddon

Addone_Abaddon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Jersey, Channel Islands

Perfection Is Everything [PiE]

W/

my point of this aswell is the fact that it's only the enemy tengu are overpowered, along with enemy assasins, the assasin as a profession is weak, and the tengu on our side are always the first to die.

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

I've always thought the Tengu were the toughest PvE enemies you face in GW. But they're not invincible. When I did my skill capping in Mineral springs, I took henchies and the only real tough parts were the first group you face just inside the portal and the mob of Avicara Fierces in the NW corner of the map.

Overpowered though? If you compare them with all the other AI's you face (except a few Factions Bosses), yeah. If you compare them with a group of decent players, nah.

Vermilion Okeanos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Those avicara tengu in the mineral spring often give me some run for the money if I take hench group without planning ahead. Such as, "Hey, lets just get this over with..." *go out and get slaughter 5 times in a row and finally defeat 1 group when the entire party got 60% DP; return to town* "OK, lets try this again differently..."

Turbo Wombat

Turbo Wombat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Centeral Texas

Heros of Titans Realm

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Addone_Abaddon
my point of this aswell is the fact that it's only the enemy tengu are overpowered, along with enemy assasins, the assasin as a profession is weak, and the tengu on our side are always the first to die.
The Kryta tengu are really only a problem if you can't control aggro. The tengu in the Southern Shiverpeaks are really only a pain because the groups you come across come in two varities: Well Balanced and Rangerspike.

As far as enemy NPC assassins (and other classes, for that matter) being overpowered, look at their level and you will see your answer. Oni are level 28. To give you a point of reference, level 30 is about par for endgame level bosses. So yes, they are gonna hurt like hell. On top of that, they have a skill which gives them a 100% chance to double-strike, increasing their damage output even more. Just bring Empathy/Spiteful Spirit and some block/evade skills, and they kill themselves pretty fast.

The assassin profession itself is not weak, either. The problem is that most players don't know how to maximize their damage while still keeping true to the hit-and-run tactics required to stay alive. Though they may not totally anihilate some of the higher-level mobs, they can definately put one hell of a dent in their health bar. A good assassin should be able to almost completely flatten anything lvl 20 or below in one combo and be able to come out with hardly a scratch.

Addone_Abaddon

Addone_Abaddon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Jersey, Channel Islands

Perfection Is Everything [PiE]

W/

I like the southern shiverpeaks lol, there's always a way round avrica, and if skill capping, and tengu are in the way of a boss, go to another spawn location of the boss lol.

I hate caromi tengu cause there's never a way round them and they use conjure phantasm and cry of frustration.


But like I said, this topic isn't about how crappy I am against tengu.
enemy tengu overpowered. That's the thing I wanted you to discuss, if it was talon silverwing vs a level 20 caromi tengu, (there are no level 20 caromi, just if there was) the caromi tengu would win. If there was a level 20 assasin vs a level 20 oni with the exact same skills, the oni would win - that's what I don't get.

Captain Arne Is PRO

Captain Arne Is PRO

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Please edit the title of this thread to:

Original Poster - Extremely Bad?