I put theorycraft in there because... I had to spend my last slot for my Assasin, and I won't be able to make pvp characters untill I buy nightfall. It's all good though, can someone check out how this works?
Irresitible Blow
Hammer Bash
Crushing Blow
Flurry
Critical Eye
Locusts Fury
Caltrops
Shadow Refuge
Res Sig
I think a Zealous Hammer of Enchanting would work best for this.
Basically the idea would be Locust Fury=Double Strike with Hammers (??) Critical Eye + atleast 13 in critical strikes = 4 extra energy each critical you make and a high critical chance. Flurry=high chance of criticals and double strikes.
Caltrops and Shadow Refuge are just in there so it's usable for RA. I would think Wild Blow and something else would be way better if it's used for something like HA.
Give some feedback
Naz
Assasin Thumper - THEORYCRAFT
Nessaja
Evilsod
Double strike only affects Daggers. So Locusts Fury wouldn't be useful. Flurry = 25% less damage, the Thumper is all out damage so dealing 25% less wouldn't help it.
Its just not possible as an assassin. And even if it was, it would be sub-par to the ranger.
Its just not possible as an assassin. And even if it was, it would be sub-par to the ranger.
TGgold
As stated, doublestrikes on affect daggers.
And.
You have nine skills
And.
You have nine skills
Nessaja
Are you sure Double Strike only affects daggers? I mean, was this actually tested? I guess that part needs to be scrapped then. A double strike with a dagger would be pretty damn awesome though.. I "suppose" you can always use AoD >> or Shove... it wasn't so much the backbone of the build.
Sure Flurry = 25% less damage, but the damage output increases with flurry, in addition, with criticals=more energy, and every crit you do from a hammer hurts a lot.
The reason why Thumpers work so well is because they can spam energy spells, assasins can do that aswell, only better. And their damage output will be higher because just about every hit will be a crit.
Sure Flurry = 25% less damage, but the damage output increases with flurry, in addition, with criticals=more energy, and every crit you do from a hammer hurts a lot.
The reason why Thumpers work so well is because they can spam energy spells, assasins can do that aswell, only better. And their damage output will be higher because just about every hit will be a crit.
Evilsod
No the reason bunny thumpers work is because there is effectively 2 of them. A complete spike would include Tigers Fury as IAS. Hammer Bash, Crushing Blow, Irresistable Blow and Ferocious Strike (somewhere down the line). With Flurry active you lose the spike potential, which is exactly what bunny thumpers are about.
Claymore
Could always try berserkers stance, and yes I know its a strength skill, but with no points in it its still 5 seconds. 5 seconds of increased speed 33% and extra 20% adren, full damage. Also with being only 5 seconds long you don't have to worry about wasting the skill by interupting with a skill.
SAPhoenix
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
Its just not possible as an assassin. And even if it was, it would be sub-par to the ranger.
I posted a Hammer build previously. Here's the link to it:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10020570
What I can say is this. Firstly, this shows that it is possible to use a hammer as well (or should I say, even better) than a bunny thumper does. Secondly, this is hardly sub par to the ranger, as it kills faster and it degens. Plus 2 KDs is gg.
I've killed other thumpers with it (good for casters too). It strips stances, knocks down twice, isn't dependant on an IAS to be even moderately effective (unlike thumpers, who have to use it to charge their adrenaline attacks), and it degens (Poison+Bleeding+Deep Wound). No bunny thumper can pull that off with a hammer. The poison+deep wound sure, not the bleeding (Unless they bring Brambles, even then, if they dont want to screw with their build too much, they would probably have to rely on a team mate to bring it). An assassin can pull it off in one swift combo.
Its like a dagger combo with a more damaging weapon, plus it doesn't even need an IAS or an elite to be effective. I forgot to edit it previously. Deadly Arts should be at 9 and the rest of the points should go into Shadow Arts.
Two assassins running this against two thumpers? Thumpers=dead
Works even better if you have a monk backing you.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10020570
What I can say is this. Firstly, this shows that it is possible to use a hammer as well (or should I say, even better) than a bunny thumper does. Secondly, this is hardly sub par to the ranger, as it kills faster and it degens. Plus 2 KDs is gg.
I've killed other thumpers with it (good for casters too). It strips stances, knocks down twice, isn't dependant on an IAS to be even moderately effective (unlike thumpers, who have to use it to charge their adrenaline attacks), and it degens (Poison+Bleeding+Deep Wound). No bunny thumper can pull that off with a hammer. The poison+deep wound sure, not the bleeding (Unless they bring Brambles, even then, if they dont want to screw with their build too much, they would probably have to rely on a team mate to bring it). An assassin can pull it off in one swift combo.
Its like a dagger combo with a more damaging weapon, plus it doesn't even need an IAS or an elite to be effective. I forgot to edit it previously. Deadly Arts should be at 9 and the rest of the points should go into Shadow Arts.
Two assassins running this against two thumpers? Thumpers=dead
Works even better if you have a monk backing you.
Skuld
A/W
"Coward!" {E} (None)
Bull's Strike (Strength)
Golden Phoenix Strike (Dagger Mastery)
Horns of the Ox (Dagger Mastery)
Falling Spider (Dagger Mastery)
Twisting Fangs (Dagger Mastery)
Sprint (Strength)
Resurrection Signet (None)
- Lots of KDs from coward, because of all the dual strikes the thing charges up fast.
- Use Falling Spider -> Twisting Fangs whenever you get a KD from Coward or Bull's Strike.
- Use the combo GPS -> Horns -> Spider -> TF when you want to make a kill.
- Sprint is for chasing.
This can't KD stationary targets with the warrior skills or stuff standing next to a spirit or a teammate making it less reliable than a warrior or thumper.
For use with a smiter.
"Coward!" {E} (None)
Bull's Strike (Strength)
Golden Phoenix Strike (Dagger Mastery)
Horns of the Ox (Dagger Mastery)
Falling Spider (Dagger Mastery)
Twisting Fangs (Dagger Mastery)
Sprint (Strength)
Resurrection Signet (None)
- Lots of KDs from coward, because of all the dual strikes the thing charges up fast.
- Use Falling Spider -> Twisting Fangs whenever you get a KD from Coward or Bull's Strike.
- Use the combo GPS -> Horns -> Spider -> TF when you want to make a kill.
- Sprint is for chasing.
This can't KD stationary targets with the warrior skills or stuff standing next to a spirit or a teammate making it less reliable than a warrior or thumper.
For use with a smiter.
Nessaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
No the reason bunny thumpers work is because there is effectively 2 of them. A complete spike would include Tigers Fury as IAS. Hammer Bash, Crushing Blow, Irresistable Blow and Ferocious Strike (somewhere down the line). With Flurry active you lose the spike potential, which is exactly what bunny thumpers are about.
Aren't you totally neglecting the amounts of crits you would be getting? Crits on hammers hurt...
Skuld
But thumpers are for KD.
ubermancer
If you want to make a character along the lines of a Thumper, but with a Sin primary, go Dagger Mastery and Beast Mastery.
Its just my guess that Enraged Lunge + Brutal Strike in the middle of a combo ending with Twisting Fangs kinda stings.
Ill actually see if I can make such a build.
--
10 Beast Mastery
15 Dagger Mastery
11 Critical Strikes
Tiger's Fury, Unsuspecting Strike+Ferocious Strike, Fox Fangs, Twisting Fangs+Brutal Strike
You have to use Zealous daggers, and ideally time your skill use so that Ferocious Strike gets off right before Twisting Fangs does, so you can ensure that you have enough energy for Twisting Fangs+Brutal Strike (which really is a brutal combination, dealing damage in wholesale quantities)
--
EDIT: Did I mention that chain kills a 60 AL target in one go, requires no charge time (ie, adrenaline), and can be used every 15 seconds thanks to the high energy gain from Critical Strikes and Ferocious Strike.
Its just my guess that Enraged Lunge + Brutal Strike in the middle of a combo ending with Twisting Fangs kinda stings.
Ill actually see if I can make such a build.
--
10 Beast Mastery
15 Dagger Mastery
11 Critical Strikes
Tiger's Fury, Unsuspecting Strike+Ferocious Strike, Fox Fangs, Twisting Fangs+Brutal Strike
You have to use Zealous daggers, and ideally time your skill use so that Ferocious Strike gets off right before Twisting Fangs does, so you can ensure that you have enough energy for Twisting Fangs+Brutal Strike (which really is a brutal combination, dealing damage in wholesale quantities)
--
EDIT: Did I mention that chain kills a 60 AL target in one go, requires no charge time (ie, adrenaline), and can be used every 15 seconds thanks to the high energy gain from Critical Strikes and Ferocious Strike.
Celab
the only reason thumpers work is because their IAS is only 6/4 energy for them, which isnt expensive, if warrior primaries could do that they would.
Plus, ferocious strike is a horrible elite.
Plus, ferocious strike is a horrible elite.
ubermancer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celab
the only reason thumpers work is because their IAS is only 6/4 energy for them, which isnt expensive, if warrior primaries could do that they would.
Plus, ferocious strike is a horrible elite. You got a better idea on an A/R Dagger/Beast Mastery thats pressed for energy? And skill slots?
My build may not be ideal, but it can spike (hard) every ~15 seconds. (an intermediate Ferocious Strike helps get your energy up for spikes)
Plus, ferocious strike is a horrible elite. You got a better idea on an A/R Dagger/Beast Mastery thats pressed for energy? And skill slots?
My build may not be ideal, but it can spike (hard) every ~15 seconds. (an intermediate Ferocious Strike helps get your energy up for spikes)
Celab
Golden lotus strike, black lotus strike, just throw in a enchantment or hex in there and free energy for j00.
Plus my post was not against the build, i failed to read it, i skipped ahead and read how people think thumpers are good, which i disagree to a certain extent, becuase there are better chains and the pressure from 35 dps from a hammer is always good.
Ignore the BLS and GPS comment, i was thinking about daggers, the things assassins use ^^
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How is this build energy intensive? Assassins have 4 natural regen, and the ammount of critical hits from the hammer will give enough energy to get a better IAS than flurry. Hell, you can use a freaking zealous hammer.
Plus my post was not against the build, i failed to read it, i skipped ahead and read how people think thumpers are good, which i disagree to a certain extent, becuase there are better chains and the pressure from 35 dps from a hammer is always good.
Ignore the BLS and GPS comment, i was thinking about daggers, the things assassins use ^^
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How is this build energy intensive? Assassins have 4 natural regen, and the ammount of critical hits from the hammer will give enough energy to get a better IAS than flurry. Hell, you can use a freaking zealous hammer.
ubermancer
Referring to my own build, which uses daggers, and would need more regular energy management then the once-every-other-spike BLS, and the I-dont-have-an-enchantment-in-my-build GPS.
Quote:
Quote:
15 Dagger Mastery
11 Critical Strikes
Tiger's Fury, Unsuspecting Strike+Ferocious Strike, Fox Fangs, Twisting Fangs+Brutal Strike Thumpers are nice simply because you can have more damage in a smaller time frame. Brutal Strike landing a half second after a Crushing Blow (with a Fierce Blow on its way) can convince you of that fact fairly effectively.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubermancer
Referring to my own build, which uses daggers, and would need more regular energy management then the once-every-other-spike BLS, and the I-dont-have-an-enchantment-in-my-build GPS.
Thumpers are nice simply because you can have more damage in a smaller time frame. Brutal Strike landing a half second after a Crushing Blow (with a Fierce Blow on its way) can convince you of that fact fairly effectively. Brutal Strike... landing on a foe 1/2 second after Crushing Blow is nice... er if 1... the enemy gives a toss that you just dazed them and 2... if your pet isn't still attacking the last person you were hitting. Thumper spikes are about changing target, so are all warrior spikes. You can't spike someone who your enemy monks know is been targetted so will be focus healing that target. You CAN and will most likely suceed changing targets to spike. In TA playing thumper i've killed many a target by simply chasing the monk down then changing target as he ran past a fellow caster and quickly spiking them down.
The harrasment from a 'critical hammer' can't compete with the harrassment from a constant IAS KD spamming bunny thumper. I've tried with 'critical x' builds before (as a critical axe w/ Triple Chop) and found them to be reasonably effective. But the damage from a lvl15/16 Axe warrior would out do it. Just like the damage from a lvl16 Hammer warrior could out do it. They may also be able to outdamage a Bunny Thumper, but they can't beat it in the ability to harass targets, not bothering to kite brings severe penalties when dealing with bunny thumpers.
Edit: Regarding dazed, i was thinking of another skill, but the problems with it still remains the same.
Thumpers are nice simply because you can have more damage in a smaller time frame. Brutal Strike landing a half second after a Crushing Blow (with a Fierce Blow on its way) can convince you of that fact fairly effectively. Brutal Strike... landing on a foe 1/2 second after Crushing Blow is nice... er if 1... the enemy gives a toss that you just dazed them and 2... if your pet isn't still attacking the last person you were hitting. Thumper spikes are about changing target, so are all warrior spikes. You can't spike someone who your enemy monks know is been targetted so will be focus healing that target. You CAN and will most likely suceed changing targets to spike. In TA playing thumper i've killed many a target by simply chasing the monk down then changing target as he ran past a fellow caster and quickly spiking them down.
The harrasment from a 'critical hammer' can't compete with the harrassment from a constant IAS KD spamming bunny thumper. I've tried with 'critical x' builds before (as a critical axe w/ Triple Chop) and found them to be reasonably effective. But the damage from a lvl15/16 Axe warrior would out do it. Just like the damage from a lvl16 Hammer warrior could out do it. They may also be able to outdamage a Bunny Thumper, but they can't beat it in the ability to harass targets, not bothering to kite brings severe penalties when dealing with bunny thumpers.
Edit: Regarding dazed, i was thinking of another skill, but the problems with it still remains the same.
ubermancer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutal Strike
Your animal companion attempts a Brutal Strike that deals +5...29 damage. If the attack strikes a foe whose health is below 50% that foe takes an additional +5...29 damage.
So, um, what was wrong with my version again? That it cant change targets?
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubermancer
So, um, what was wrong with my version again? That it cant change targets?
So did you actually read my post or did you stop when you read the bit about Brutal Strike?
Spura
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessaja
Aren't you totally neglecting the amounts of crits you would be getting? Crits on hammers hurt...
Not if you have low weapon attribute. And Tiger's Fury hurts way more than criticals. And pet hurts also. Assassin thumper is one of the dumbest ideas I've seen here. Sticking any weapons but daggers is generally not worth it. It can be done, but it is usually far outdone by that class.
ubermancer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
So did you actually read my post or did you stop when you read the bit about Brutal Strike?
Did you read MINE?
I am not suggesting hammer use at all, or using Critical Strikes to boost the damage of another class's weapon, so we can throw out the entire second paragraph.
And the bulk of the first is about the effectiveness of changing targets. This is completly true, the ability to switch rapidly is a great strength. But I dont see how my build, forced as it may be (Im certainly not running it), really lacks in the areas you addressed in your first paragraph - changing targets. Something my build is admittably weak in, but I think its a good first step towards an A/R Dagger/Beast Master.
I am not suggesting hammer use at all, or using Critical Strikes to boost the damage of another class's weapon, so we can throw out the entire second paragraph.
And the bulk of the first is about the effectiveness of changing targets. This is completly true, the ability to switch rapidly is a great strength. But I dont see how my build, forced as it may be (Im certainly not running it), really lacks in the areas you addressed in your first paragraph - changing targets. Something my build is admittably weak in, but I think its a good first step towards an A/R Dagger/Beast Master.
Evilsod
Well considering that an assassin who gains 2 energy per critical hit. Using a zealous mod. With a set of daggers where he can Double Strike. Against foes who kite so are likely to be hit by a critical. Has absolutely no need for Ferocious Strike as an elite anyway... Ferocious is there to fuel the ranger with the added bonus of dealing a decent amount of damage. If the ranger got an additional 2-3 energy everytime he hit a critical why exactly would they need it? No they'd bring Enranged Lunge!
You build may have *some* spike potential. But if you miss a single hit in the combo you've lost it, if you miss 1 Hammer Bash its not the end of the world, it recharges reasonably quickly and also dishes out high damage in between. Daggers do less than half the damage a hammer does on normal attacks. At present your build has absolutely no space for a res. Which automatically deams it useless on a PvP front.
Maybe you should try Unsuspecting, Fox Fangs, Twisted Fangs (or some other method of reaching TF), Tigers Fury, Enraged Lunge, Comfort Animal, Charm Animal, Res Signet.
Even if your pet isn't attack the same person you are, a near enough +80 damage from Enraged Lunge *every 5 seconds* is still extremely powerful. Aslong as Tigers Fury keeps recharging itself, Charm/Comfort and Enraged is recharging you have a powerful spammable attack. As for stat points... i dunno. Maybe major Critical/Daggers to get Critical upto 13.
You build may have *some* spike potential. But if you miss a single hit in the combo you've lost it, if you miss 1 Hammer Bash its not the end of the world, it recharges reasonably quickly and also dishes out high damage in between. Daggers do less than half the damage a hammer does on normal attacks. At present your build has absolutely no space for a res. Which automatically deams it useless on a PvP front.
Maybe you should try Unsuspecting, Fox Fangs, Twisted Fangs (or some other method of reaching TF), Tigers Fury, Enraged Lunge, Comfort Animal, Charm Animal, Res Signet.
Even if your pet isn't attack the same person you are, a near enough +80 damage from Enraged Lunge *every 5 seconds* is still extremely powerful. Aslong as Tigers Fury keeps recharging itself, Charm/Comfort and Enraged is recharging you have a powerful spammable attack. As for stat points... i dunno. Maybe major Critical/Daggers to get Critical upto 13.