The new updates for Mind Burn is just stupid, here is the spell BEFORE Mind Burn. With 16 attributes
Mind Burn - Elite Spell. Target foe takes 63 fire damages. If you have more Energy than target foe, that foe suffers takes an additional 63 fire damage and is set on fire for 7 seconds. This Spell causes exhaustion.
Energy 15, Casting 1, Recharge 20
Decent right? Not to great and not to poor.
Now its Energy 5, Casting 1, Recharge 5.
Thats to cheap... unless you want a Ele/monk supporter but casting time 5? this does more damage than fireball and with 16 (+1 20%) the burning time is 8 seconds, is this change good or bad?
Mind Burn: Super "Cheap" Spamming
Fluffy Butt
Ensign
It was terrible before all of the updates. Now it is an attractive elite for an elementalist. It's a rather strong skill for dueling, in fact.
I don't think it will see much competitive play because the fire line is so bad, but if fire gets a couple decent skills this will be great.
Peace,
-CxE
I don't think it will see much competitive play because the fire line is so bad, but if fire gets a couple decent skills this will be great.
Peace,
-CxE
Rancour
The exhaustion still keeps you from spamming it endlessly... I think it's more to add pressure on someone who's already taking a beating rather than actually building around it... Not sure if it's worth the Elite tag.
Draygo Korvan
Looks like to me it got nerfed out of uselessness. (Or buffed into usefullness).
I have a feeling HA/RA/TA/AB will feel this change but GvG wont.
And drawing a comparison between a direct damage spell and an aoe spell like fireball isnt fair. You are better off comparing it as a better Immolate.
I have a feeling HA/RA/TA/AB will feel this change but GvG wont.
And drawing a comparison between a direct damage spell and an aoe spell like fireball isnt fair. You are better off comparing it as a better Immolate.
Lord Aro
If it wasn't elite: Mind Burn + Glyph of Energy
AC10
I agree that it's a nice skill for duelling, but I'd never take it for teamplay. The low recharge doesn't mean much when you can't take Glyph of Energy to prevent the exhaustion.
D'Arcangelo
Well, if any elite wasn't an elite it would see more use, obviously.
The Mind Shock skill is still one of the better ones in my opinion.
The Mind Shock skill is still one of the better ones in my opinion.
Why_Me
Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Arcangelo
If it wasn't elite: Mind Burn + Glyph of Energy
U can arcane mimic it from an ally and have your elite as the glyph, but they still need to add a non elite glyph whos sole purpose is to prevent exhaustion.
Toxic RD
FYI, the full effect of Mind Burn at level 16 Fire = 224 damage
Evilsod
This elite is still as crap as ever... Why didn't i use it before? Was it the energy cost? Was it the recharge? NO! It was the words 'causes exhaustion' on the end of it.
The fact it costs half as much energy and has a recharge to give it 'spammable' status doesn't improve it.
Would you spam Meteor if it cost 5 energy for 5 recharge?
You can still only cast it once every 30 seconds before you end up doing yourself in through exhaustion. Since when did 'dueling' make the slightest difference to how good an elite is in this game... Mirror of Ice is utter crap, but in a 1 on 1 ele duel its the best skill you could ever bring, is it suddenly a good elite?
All i see this doing is making Ice Imps even more powerful than ever before.
The fact it costs half as much energy and has a recharge to give it 'spammable' status doesn't improve it.
Would you spam Meteor if it cost 5 energy for 5 recharge?
You can still only cast it once every 30 seconds before you end up doing yourself in through exhaustion. Since when did 'dueling' make the slightest difference to how good an elite is in this game... Mirror of Ice is utter crap, but in a 1 on 1 ele duel its the best skill you could ever bring, is it suddenly a good elite?
All i see this doing is making Ice Imps even more powerful than ever before.
Mouse at Large
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic RD
FYI, the full effect of Mind Burn at level 16 Fire = 224 damage
Less armour/other elemental resists
Less condition removal
Obsidian Flame is non-elite and does armour ignoring damage of 118 guaranteed at 16.......
Less condition removal
Obsidian Flame is non-elite and does armour ignoring damage of 118 guaranteed at 16.......
Hidden Prayers
Fluffy Butt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
This elite is still as crap as ever... Why didn't i use it before? Was it the energy cost? Was it the recharge? NO! It was the words 'causes exhaustion' on the end of it.
Since when did 'dueling' make the slightest difference to how good an elite is in this game... Mirror of Ice is utter crap, but in a 1 on 1 ele duel its the best skill you could ever bring, is it suddenly a good elite?
All i see this doing is making Ice Imps even more powerful than ever before. Woops, forgot that it has exhaustion, which reminds me in pvp will this be a spammable 1 shot deal? or in 12 vs 12, kill an opponet with lots of exhaustion and then run into a big crowd, die and get energy back? in 1vs1, this is a garrentie however, i won vs a tank, but i could only do it once or 2 times (when he runs back and i get lucky) after that im a human target.
last but not least, with ice imps doing this, can we still run to droks?
Since when did 'dueling' make the slightest difference to how good an elite is in this game... Mirror of Ice is utter crap, but in a 1 on 1 ele duel its the best skill you could ever bring, is it suddenly a good elite?
All i see this doing is making Ice Imps even more powerful than ever before. Woops, forgot that it has exhaustion, which reminds me in pvp will this be a spammable 1 shot deal? or in 12 vs 12, kill an opponet with lots of exhaustion and then run into a big crowd, die and get energy back? in 1vs1, this is a garrentie however, i won vs a tank, but i could only do it once or 2 times (when he runs back and i get lucky) after that im a human target.
last but not least, with ice imps doing this, can we still run to droks?
Ensign
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
Would you spam Meteor if it cost 5 energy for 5 recharge?
Yes. Yes I would.
Peace,
-CxE
Peace,
-CxE
Toxic RD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Yes. Yes I would.
Peace,
-CxE I second that
Peace,
-CxE I second that
Trylo
a monk or rit (know IMHO, after the updates a pretty nice healer), will remove the mind burn and usually heal for almost the same amount they took...
the real problem is Mind Freeze, it was and IS the only valid one fo the mind spells, MAYBE shock is... sub-par. but with 6(?) seconds of 90% slowed... i think we will be seeing it a bit more often in PvP because you can effectively use this one skill to shut a war down, you just need to use it with some intelligence... but still deep freeze is the best ele skill ever.
the real problem is Mind Freeze, it was and IS the only valid one fo the mind spells, MAYBE shock is... sub-par. but with 6(?) seconds of 90% slowed... i think we will be seeing it a bit more often in PvP because you can effectively use this one skill to shut a war down, you just need to use it with some intelligence... but still deep freeze is the best ele skill ever.
LoyalSoldier
The problems with these skills were not fixed at all. The reason they sucked before is the fact the damage was too conditional and not enough. Along with the exaustion this makes the skill harder to use as time goes on.
One thing that gets overlooked is the fact that even though you spend 5 energy the exaustion will make the energy cost useless. What good is a 5 energy cost if you get 15 points of exaustion?
One thing that gets overlooked is the fact that even though you spend 5 energy the exaustion will make the energy cost useless. What good is a 5 energy cost if you get 15 points of exaustion?
Lord Aro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Why_Me
U can arcane mimic it from an ally and have your elite as the glyph, but they still need to add a non elite glyph whos sole purpose is to prevent exhaustion.
Quoted wrong person lol.
I didn't mention Mimicry due to you needing the second E in your team to use it. So unless you are taking multiple E's to make a build around Glyph of Energy, Mimicry, and some other elite spell which may or may not have the second damage and effect trigger -> I'd rather use Obsidian Flame.
I didn't mention Mimicry due to you needing the second E in your team to use it. So unless you are taking multiple E's to make a build around Glyph of Energy, Mimicry, and some other elite spell which may or may not have the second damage and effect trigger -> I'd rather use Obsidian Flame.
Thom Bangalter
If meteor was 5 energy and 5 recharge, i'd spam that until I was completely exhausted and could do no more. in fact, that's what I'd do with mind burn. Oh noes I'm exhausted! Oh noes focus swap, wait for energy to regen.
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Originally Posted by evilsod
Would you spam Meteor if it cost 5 energy for 5 recharge?
Yes. Yes I would.
Peace,
-CxE Well, hate to disagree, but I wouldn't because of the 3s cast.
But if it were any less, yes.
I'd have to see if any of the Mind skills warrant a removal of Ether Prodigy from my bar. Until then, I'm opinionless.
Peace,
-CxE Well, hate to disagree, but I wouldn't because of the 3s cast.
But if it were any less, yes.
I'd have to see if any of the Mind skills warrant a removal of Ether Prodigy from my bar. Until then, I'm opinionless.
glountz
Afflicted elementalists are very dangerous now. Especially the boss one...
Hella Good
Mind spells are much more viable now. Mind Burn is pretty harsh but thenagain the Fire line is so-so. Mind Shock is wonderful now, tho, I really like this skill. You get a nice spike damage (split in 2, so that helps some versus proto stuff), armor pen, KD, and it's cheap and fairly spammable. And Mind Freeze is pretty nice, too, powerful snare. I do like playing Water occasionally, just to piss people off with snares. I don't see how people are still complaining about Mind spells... They are perfectly viable now.
Phades
Can't spam any of the mind skills, otherwise you guarentee that the other half of the effect doesnt occur. Then again, i guess you could only target warriors and assassins with them. The cost reduction up front helps the skills land more reliably, but the recharge reduction is kinda pointless due to the complete abscence of exhaustion removal outside of glyph of energy.
katsumoriyama
That is powerful.
Longasc
I have yet to see ANY Elite damage spell that makes me remove me Energy Management Related elites from my bar.
Maybe this new blinding or lightning surge in the Air line.
Besides that, Mind Burn will still not be used too often. Exhaustion. As simple as that. Plus it being Elite and removing options to deal with it.
Even Nightfall does not make Eles better in the damage dealing department, my Necro, Ranger, Warrior and Dervish can cause damage without exhaustion, aoe panic and 25 energy spells.
Elementalists/Elementalist skills are in need of a total overhaul.
Maybe this new blinding or lightning surge in the Air line.
Besides that, Mind Burn will still not be used too often. Exhaustion. As simple as that. Plus it being Elite and removing options to deal with it.
Even Nightfall does not make Eles better in the damage dealing department, my Necro, Ranger, Warrior and Dervish can cause damage without exhaustion, aoe panic and 25 energy spells.
Elementalists/Elementalist skills are in need of a total overhaul.
Hyprodimus Prime
To reply to ,"This elite is still as crap as ever... Why didn't i use it before? Was it the energy cost? Was it the recharge? NO! It was the words 'causes exhaustion' on the end of it.
The fact it costs half as much energy and has a recharge to give it 'spammable' status doesn't improve it.
Would you spam Meteor if it cost 5 energy for 5 recharge?
You can still only cast it once every 30 seconds before you end up doing yourself in through exhaustion. Since when did 'dueling' make the slightest difference to how good an elite is in this game... Mirror of Ice is utter crap, but in a 1 on 1 ele duel its the best skill you could ever bring, is it suddenly a good elite?
All i see this doing is making Ice Imps even more powerful than ever before."
I agree, exhaustion hurts. I hate waiting and waiting for it to come back. I would like it better if mind burn had 25 energy cost and 5 recharge without exhaustion. The problem with exhaustion is there is nothing you can do, not even die, to replenish the energy loss. There is only 1 skill in the game to combat it, and its an elite. And to copy it from another ele....thats just too much. Arcane mimicry takes 60 sec to recharge, only hold the other elite for 20 sec, so thats 4 mind burns in 60 sec (includes first mind burn with exhaustion and next 2 without and 1 more for the time for AM to recharge)
Air spike is so much easier....and less expensive and complicated. Its not worth the elite and the damage is only mediocre. I mean is there was another skill for exhaustion it would be better, but because its an elite AND causes exhaustion, its thumbs down. You know what else I hate? Second wind....I personally find it absolutly useless because it itself causes exhaustion.
The fact it costs half as much energy and has a recharge to give it 'spammable' status doesn't improve it.
Would you spam Meteor if it cost 5 energy for 5 recharge?
You can still only cast it once every 30 seconds before you end up doing yourself in through exhaustion. Since when did 'dueling' make the slightest difference to how good an elite is in this game... Mirror of Ice is utter crap, but in a 1 on 1 ele duel its the best skill you could ever bring, is it suddenly a good elite?
All i see this doing is making Ice Imps even more powerful than ever before."
I agree, exhaustion hurts. I hate waiting and waiting for it to come back. I would like it better if mind burn had 25 energy cost and 5 recharge without exhaustion. The problem with exhaustion is there is nothing you can do, not even die, to replenish the energy loss. There is only 1 skill in the game to combat it, and its an elite. And to copy it from another ele....thats just too much. Arcane mimicry takes 60 sec to recharge, only hold the other elite for 20 sec, so thats 4 mind burns in 60 sec (includes first mind burn with exhaustion and next 2 without and 1 more for the time for AM to recharge)
Air spike is so much easier....and less expensive and complicated. Its not worth the elite and the damage is only mediocre. I mean is there was another skill for exhaustion it would be better, but because its an elite AND causes exhaustion, its thumbs down. You know what else I hate? Second wind....I personally find it absolutly useless because it itself causes exhaustion.
Mysterial
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyprodimus Prime
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Longasc
Even Nightfall does not make Eles better in the damage dealing department
That's not entirely true; Mind Blast and Glowing Gaze give them the ability to endlessly spam Fire spells for damage in a way that even Ether Prodigy couldn't support. Is it enough? Perhaps not - I'm still not sure I can find a whole skill bar's worth of good skills in the line - but it's definitely in a better state than it was before.
Thom Bangalter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyprodimus Prime
To reply to ,"This elite is still as crap as ever... Why didn't i use it before? Was it the energy cost? Was it the recharge? NO! It was the words 'causes exhaustion' on the end of it.
The fact it costs half as much energy and has a recharge to give it 'spammable' status doesn't improve it. Would you spam Meteor if it cost 5 energy for 5 recharge? You can still only cast it once every 30 seconds before you end up doing yourself in through exhaustion. Since when did 'dueling' make the slightest difference to how good an elite is in this game... Mirror of Ice is utter crap, but in a 1 on 1 ele duel its the best skill you could ever bring, is it suddenly a good elite? All i see this doing is making Ice Imps even more powerful than ever before." I agree, exhaustion hurts. I hate waiting and waiting for it to come back. I would like it better if mind burn had 25 energy cost and 5 recharge without exhaustion. The problem with exhaustion is there is nothing you can do, not even die, to replenish the energy loss. There is only 1 skill in the game to combat it, and its an elite. And to copy it from another ele....thats just too much. Arcane mimicry takes 60 sec to recharge, only hold the other elite for 20 sec, so thats 4 mind burns in 60 sec (includes first mind burn with exhaustion and next 2 without and 1 more for the time for AM to recharge) Air spike is so much easier....and less expensive and complicated. Its not worth the elite and the damage is only mediocre. I mean is there was another skill for exhaustion it would be better, but because its an elite AND causes exhaustion, its thumbs down. You know what else I hate? Second wind....I personally find it absolutly useless because it itself causes exhaustion. I would spam meteor if it was 5 energy and 5 recharge. Exhaustion is never a problem, you simply weapon swap to eliminate it. For large battles it becomes problematic, but in smaller battles or matches with a lot of skirmishes (AB comes to mind) nothing quite tops cheap, spammable skills that cause exhaustion, particularly gale. If Meteor shower was priced similar to gale or shock, it would be hands down the absolute best ele skill. In fact, If anyone from ANet is reading this, buff meteor please. Make elementalists awesome.
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
I would spam meteor if it was 5 energy and 5 recharge with a lower cast time. Exhaustion is never a problem, you simply weapon swap to eliminate it. For large battles it becomes problematic, but in smaller battles or matches with a lot of skirmishes (AB comes to mind) nothing quite tops cheap, spammable skills that cause exhaustion, particularly gale. If Meteor shower was priced similar to gale or shock, it would be hands down the absolute best ele skill.
In fact, If anyone from ANet is reading this, buff meteor please. Make elementalists awesome. One part changed. Otherwise I agree.
Phades
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterial
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Quote: Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter I would spam meteor if it was 5 energy and 5 recharge. Exhaustion is never a problem, you simply weapon swap to eliminate it. For large battles it becomes problematic, but in smaller battles or matches with a lot of skirmishes (AB comes to mind) nothing quite tops cheap, spammable skills that cause exhaustion, particularly gale. If Meteor shower was priced similar to gale or shock, it would be hands down the absolute best ele skill.
In fact, If anyone from ANet is reading this, buff meteor please. Make elementalists awesome. Although meteor doesnt require your current energy count, minus exhaustion, to exceede the target's available energy pool. Sure you can use it 3~4 times somewhat reliably, but after that its a waiting game, while other skills occur unconditionally and have potent effects like gale. Meteor also has the drop from the sky mechanic with tiny Aoe which any run speed boost renders useless.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by LightningHell
One part changed. Otherwise I agree.
Id rather see earthquake on a 5s recharge and a faster cast, you can go ahead and leave the 25e cost as is.
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phades
Id rather see earthquake on a 5s recharge and a faster cast, you can go ahead and leave the 25e cost as is.
Prodigy + Attune ftw.
Thom Bangalter
except that prodigy removes all enchantments.
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
except that prodigy removes all enchantments.
Be an idiot and cast Attune after Prodigy!
Tozen
Mind Burn has always been a "finisher" move IMHO. You use it instantly when a player is almost dead so you don't have to spend 3 seconds casting a spell to do it. (For example, how many times have you gotten a monk to about 70 HP but weren't able to kill him before he healed?)
It's for those times when a wand hit isn't enough but there isn't enough time for a full cast. Used in this manner, the energy cost makes a lot more sense... it's almost always available and 5 energy cost ensures that you can just about always use it.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tozen
Mind Burn has always been a "finisher" move IMHO. You use it instantly when a player is almost dead so you don't have to spend 3 seconds casting a spell to do it. (For example, how many times have you gotten a monk to about 70 HP but weren't able to kill him before he healed?)
It's for those times when a wand hit isn't enough but there isn't enough time for a full cast. Used in this manner, the energy cost makes a lot more sense... it's almost always available and 5 energy cost ensures that you can just about always use it. Why bring an elite to finish off a target? An ele deals high damage in 1 hit... DoT only happens if your running dual attunements or a Maelstrom build w/ Ice Spear (yes it hurts). Why not simply kill the monk first? Do you have any idea how many times things get healed just before they die as a warrior? If they do, obviously you need to switch targets... ALL of you. The longer a fight goes on the more useless you'll becom without 80% return. How could you spam meteor in its current state if it had 5s recharge? You'd be exhausted in 30seconds... its recharge would tie in nicely with that of Savage Shot. The Great Al
i think obsidian flame is way better than this, and it's not even elite! in pvp, a lot of battles dont last long enough for the exhaustion to become a factor, but for mind burn, eventually your energy will get so low that you won't be able to fulfil the requirement of having more energy. fire is useless for pvp in every way.
Dr Strangelove
The exhaustion still totally borks this skill in most situations. The mind skills have limited use in RA where the battle is over so quickly exhaustion isn't an issue, but almost everywhere else it's too much of a pain to deal with, let alone the issue of worrying about having more energy. At any rate, it rarely warrants the waste of an elite slot that could be used for energy management.
Originally Posted by The Great Al
Quote: i think obsidian flame is way better than this, and it's not even elite! in pvp, a lot of battles dont last long enough for the exhaustion to become a factor, but for mind burn, eventually your energy will get so low that you won't be able to fulfil the requirement of having more energy. fire is useless for pvp in every way.
Hey, fire is great in PvP! Try this build:
E/W 14 fire 10 swordsmanship 10 tactics 6 or so water Sever Artery Gash Mark of Rodgort Mirror of Ice [E] Deadly Riposte Healing Sig Conjure Flame Rez Sig Yes, I am fully aware this is the most ridiculous build ever posted on these forums, bt I have to say, it's fun as hell to run in RA.
Thom Bangalter
actually, fire IS great in pvp. I see it all the time in gvg. However, not the build you posted.
I watched iQ beat Te earlier tonight, and ensign was running something like second wind/heal party/fireball/rodgort's/blinding flash, probably running meteor shower in there as well because iQ <3 meteor shower. anyway, fire is really good at vod when you're nuking npcs, and the fire line is actually quite good if you use it in the right place, i.e. running fireball instead of lightning orb, since fireball has the added aoe effect that can kick in. As for running elite damage spells, I can think of a couple examples, mostly from HA: shockwave warders, and starburst eles. Both elites are really, really good though, especially due to the nature of HA, where aoe>altars, and there are so many cramped spaces where teams actually fight, as opposed to the wide open areas where no one ever fights.
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
The exhaustion still totally borks this skill in most situations. The mind skills have limited use in RA where the battle is over so quickly exhaustion isn't an issue, but almost everywhere else it's too much of a pain to deal with, let alone the issue of worrying about having more energy. At any rate, it rarely warrants the waste of an elite slot that could be used for energy management.
Hey, fire is great in PvP! Try this build: E/W 14 fire 10 swordsmanship 10 tactics 6 or so water Sever Artery Gash Mark of Rodgort Mirror of Ice [E] Deadly Riposte Healing Sig Conjure Flame Rez Sig Yes, I am fully aware this is the most ridiculous build ever posted on these forums, bt I have to say, it's fun as hell to run in RA. Agreed. Most ridiculous build posted anywhere...and it'll ONLY be useful in RA since the build is complete crap everywhere else...=P. Of all the elites, you also chose one of the worst pvp ele elites mirror of ice too...nice Vermilion Okeanos
lol, if meteor really get 5 energy, 5 charge, I would most likely treat it like another gale with fast cast mesemer... and of course, if they reduce the cast time too... too good to be true.
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