Nightfall: Contents & Features Detailed

I dunno if anybody did the skill breakdown allocation...but i think it will be like this:

Nightfall:
350 'New Skills' = [75 x 2(New Professions) = 150] + [25 x 8(Old Professions)]

Factions:
300 'New Skills' = [75 x 2(New Professions) = 150] + [25 x 6(Old Professions)]

Next Expansion:
xxx 'New Skills' = [75 x (New Professions)] + [25 x (Old Professions)]

...I wonder if they will ever make an Expansion where all the chars have the same amount of skills to make it even.

Honestly, I am a bit disappointed about the new Henc.. "Heroes". This is a MMO, you should buy it to play with other real people. If you want to play with customizable henchmen, play a normal RPG. I am all for doing what you want an the like(was an avid defender of non-RPers in RP prefered servers in EQ2), but really now, online games should help you meet other people and become friends, not hide in the corner with your henchies blocking you from view.

No, online games give you the option to meet other people - if you feel like playing with henchies that's a valid choice as well.

A lot of people wouldn't be able to play the game if they HAD to find a PUG each time they wanted to do a mission, if there wasn't henchies they would grow frustrated with the game pretty soon.

WTF are players going on about whoo i like the dance or dont like the look of the armour!!!... Its the games content that makes GW rock..
As for the Heros , well to customise their skills, armour and their tactics is really cool and thought provoking. No more noobs complaing about the stupid hench bla bla bla..
The other thing which i really enjoyed reading was the templates for builds. No more loading up GWfreaks!!!! and taking an age getting team builds up before a GvG or PvP.
Really looking forward to this next game.... some really good additions Anet.

Henchies are not stupid...if someone is complaining he/she doesnt knows how to play with them.
Dont be surprised about Hero whine threads soon after release since the same ppl will find it hard to manage the heroes

Thanks Anet!

I've been waiting for build templates right from the beginning of GW.
You really made my life easier 8 chars with several builds each is a pain in the ...

About the question, that we should play with "real" people. Let me explain my point of view.
I've 38 years, have wife, 2 children with 9 and 5 wich i love to play and have a good time with, a full time job as DBA, social life, a house with a huge lawn that i take care, 3 dogs, so plenty of my time is filled.
When i have time to play and in my 2 accounts i have above 2000hours played, i never know when i have to interrupt because need to assist my children or wife, and most of the time i play "afterhours" when most of cities or mission entries are empty.
So what would be the solution for me? Quit playing or take some henchs (now with heroes would be easier), and go on!
The henchs wont complain if in the middle of a mission i just leave for 5 minutes because i have to give a cup of milk to my child.
I've done most of missions in Prophecies and in Factions with enchs and believe me some of them are so much easier to do then with some PUG groups i've been.

Of course when i know i won't be interrupted i prefer to go with real players, and i've made quite a few friends in game, and meet some nice people. Even if we fail to do the mission.
A few days ago i was doing the Unwaking Waters with my Mesmer, done this with 5 of my chars before, i know how to beat it easily with enchs, but i choose to go with real people, after the third failed try i just grab the enchs and did it with masters reward. But it was fun to play with those guys, it was fun, but i need to go on so did it the "enchie" way

Can't wait for Nightfall and these templates

I like that NPC Hero Party thing because it is so like Final Fantasy.

Agree with the above poster on hench usage.

I use henchmen most of the time because
a) they don't complain about me being away from keyboard
b) they are, in fact, often more effective that most PUGs
c) I can take my time and explore every single corner of the map, as I often like to do
d) I like to remain in control of the situation. Henchmen are mostly obedient, and when they don't do what you wanted them to, you will know exactly why (usually a pathing problem)

Then again, henches can be quite a pain in some situations:
a) their pathing is problematic; they will often get stuck in level geometry, or worse, in enemies when you are attempting an escape
b) tho most of the time you can control their aggro, sometimes - especially during battles - they will cause unwanted aggression that often leads to party wipe
c) they are mostly helpless if you happen to fall in combat and not be ressurected quickly. (I wish you could still issue commands post-mortem, but... o well)
d) you can't always engage and disengage them from battle when you would like to; sometimes you just want to move around the battlefield and they'll disengage; other times you want to evade a fight and they'll remain engaged for too long (usually if they are stuck, see above point)

Most of these problems could be fixed by anet, with some degree of effort. The last point could be easily helped if henchmen were to gain the increased control that heroes will (and I certainly hope they do); commanding-while-dead whould be easy to do; improvements in pathing could be harder; and there's not much that can be done to solve aggro control other than improving their pathing and battle behavior.

With all that said, I do often play with other people: I've made some good friends in my guild (and outside it, too), and I occasionally do PvP. All in all, I strongly support anet's decision to make the game playable both in single and multiplayer, and it's one of the reasons why I chose GW as the game I devote my time and money to. Also, keep in mind that, as more and more chapters come out, there's a tendency for outposts and missions to be emptier as the playerbase spreads out, so henchmen/heroes will become increasingly important, even if only to fill spaces in human groups. The heroes are a good step forward, and it greatly pleases me that Anet keeps driving the game on with this type of improvements (also improved build-management and improved salvaging in NF). Keep up the good work anet, don't rest on your laurels! give us the best you can do and we'll remain ever faithful .

It sounds like my head will explode attempting to get characters this skills, armor and what not. But, it does sound most fun being able to do that.

I do say I would like to have my own characters as my fellow heros, but, we'll start with this

I do think that Lioness and Rat are two new pets, rat power!

umm, the male paragon dance looks too much like the male ritualist dance!

I love the male rit dance, but male paragon just looks like a bad rip off.

the male dance we see is of another Michael Jackson dance..

the dervish armour in that looks like the grey fox from oblivion =O

Male paragon dance rocks! The collectors edition is quite large.

wow amazing just like prophecies

Dude what are you talking about... The male rit dance is from Napolean Dynamite, and the male Paragon dance is from Beat it.

How are they rips of each other. (go to youtube and watch the Beat it video)

The point of that was to try to bring a new level of creativity to builds. Allowing someone to have 2 versions of the same spell does mix things up a bit. Of course, that requires it being a spell you would need/want two version of in your skillbar though.

Stupid Michael Jackson stealing Napoleon Dynamite's moves. He's just as bad as all the rappers that "sample" other peoples' work.

Its supposedly going to encourage "buddy gaming" because youll be able to take 3 heros each. 1+3+1+3= 8/8 gogogo

For one- itll get people involved in finding groups who have otherwise gone Henchway for the last two chapters.

Yes for most of the important missions I usually LFG, but when Im just messing around, tying up loose ends or capping elites; its not always easy to get an entire party with the same focus as you...


A four man team is the leetsauce for some areas (example the green farms for the luxon and kurzick sides) and personally Im excited to see JUST how good I can make these HeroHenchies.

For the people who dont like/want change, there is nothing forcing you to use these people (granted some missions will require certain heros, but some missions also require you to baby sit Togo and Mehnlo). However, once the system gets its kinks worked out (im not giving them any equipment til its documented safe!) I think its going to make a lot of our 'side-projects' go a little easier.

Actually I believe that was an unintentional bonus created from the situation. Because there is absolutely no point of having two of the same adrenaline based attacks in your skill bar.

I'll admit I loved the dodge clone... Zojuns Haste, great for having constant speed when runing as a Ranger.

I just think its confusing for some players to have an exact clone of a skill with an alternate name. I know alot of Warriors that spent a bunch of K and skill points buying the same skills they already had when they got factions.

If they think the skill is crucial to both games, it would be easier to just make it a "Core" skill.

yes- heres an example of it for those who dont know:

TOUCH RANGER

and of course being hit by crystal wave AND tenais crystals will ruin anyones day.


I cant wait to see which skills the clone!


that would defeat the point of having doubled skills. You wont get another Zojun Haste in nightfall for sure- the spells/skills they cloned will not be used again in any future chapters.

And of course like you said, there are a few skills that are not necessarily good cloned on your bar- but there is nothing stopping you from reading a skill description before you purchase it.

I like my Dual Crystal Wave ele, and I am excited to see what they have planned next.

Id say it FAR from unintentional- and just for my records, which adrenaline skill are you talking about?

I'm pretty sure they stated that it was a reason to why they made duplicate skills, not that it just came out that way. Whether or not it was on their official site, or in a post by Gaile here, or something like that, I don't recall. Or maybe that's how they defended it when some people complained about it.

That's not the point here. Making it a "Core" skill still means there is only one skill. Making a different skill with the same effects, a duplicate as it is known, means there are two you can put in your skillbar.

What elitist crap. The worst thing about Guild Wars (IMO), is waiting around for PUGS to form. If Heros help alleviate that (and they should), then it's a good thing.

This isn't "all or nothing." As I understand, you can have a max of 3 heroes with you. So, in a 8 man mission, you could go with:

• all henchies (you can do that now, so your complete argument is moot)

• henchies and Heroes

• Real people, henchies and heroes

• Real people and just heroes

• Real people and just henchies (can do now)

• All Real People (can do now)

Heroes just give more options, they don't eliminate any of the old options.

And if you don't want to adventure with heroes, start a Group that won't allow heroes!

Does that mean that Nightfall gives 2 new slots, and if you get the pre-release for another it means a total of 3 extra slots? That's kewl.

I for one love the new dances. The male paragon looks very bird like which may be why they ripped it from MJ. And I like the female dervish. I have the first 2 CE's and am definately getting this CE also. It's packed with content!

And the new hero system looks kick butt. I was going to make a Mo/D for my first char to make it easy to get in PUGs since most people are going to be P/* or D/*. But with this hero system, I imagine most people will have their own Hero monk and so it will be easy to form 6 man pugs + 2 monk heroes for healing so now we all have the freedom to play what we want and still get a group. It's gonna be GREAT!

I never really dug Factions but Nightfall looks like a real winner to me.

Well it does say they are getting new skills, so I'm sure they will be getting armor too. What i think won't happen is having the ability to make an assasin or rit if you don't own factions.

No, your right, that will NOT happen. That would defeat a major selling point of each chapter: unique classes to that Chapter.

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet. But it appears at least that they added lighter skin ect to the classes for those that were unhappy about having to create a very african looking character. I'm just basing that on the armor that they are showing with the character models.

Ok some thought on heroes/drops. Do the heroes keep the drops assigned to them or can you take them yourself (along with gold etc)? After all, if you have to dress, arm and buy skills for 4 chars at once I think it would be fair to be able to get all the gold yourself.

Come to think of it, to make 15k armor for 4 chars (don't ask, ppl WILL do it and FoW armor too) will cost you 15x20 which make a total of 300k + materials. If, as I take it, each char will have his/her own 3 heroes, that makes a total of 3000k + materials for all 10 professions and their heroes. Of course some of this cost is already paid as many already have their 15k armor on chars but it still remains a VERY costly.

I would L O V E it if all heroes had their own backpack, pouch, and bags. It would almost enable me to clear an area and take all the loot without having to salvage 90% of it.

I really hope that heroes will be able to travel with you to tyria and cantha (if you have them, that is).

Lastly: About the sig of illusions: BROKEN imo. do you realize that having 16 illusion magic will potentially make ANY spell you want at level 16? A fast-casted meteor shower of 119 fire dmg is easy to do. I imagine it having a long recharge though (45 seconds or so) but meteor shower has a recharge of 60 and, with echo/arcane echo and mantra of inscriptions that would OWN. For a R/Me or Me/R:
Signet of Illusions + Oath shot. Nuff said.

PS: Make the heroes rebel if bot-like behaviour is made by the human

[QUOTE]that is your opinion and the saying about opinions applies here

funny that one of the Anet people stated flatly that GW could be played like a regular RPG except it was online and you had the OPTION to play with friends as well
except you say we shouldnt play as we want to..........hypocrite

with elitest tell me how to play the game your way friends........who needs enemies?

another good reason for better henchies who dont tell me how i should have fun their way

yes...

Oath shot is not a spell.

I wonder if the HR/HCT mods in illusion weapons will apply to the non-illusion spells cast a illusion level?

So? That's the point of the Sig, to give any spell you choose Level 16. It only effects one spell, so it seems it's already limited.

It's probably going to be an Elite, anyway...

Seems like a perfect Mesmer spell to me.

I think they will since Illusion attribute is used when casting the spell.

My eyes... they havent seen more sexier armor .. then ever!! I like the warriors they showed but.. im still keeping my 15k grotto The dervish armor is nice... is the first character on the third line an ele? Otherwise im glad i didnt play much of my ele and can safely delete it. Then i can create a female and buy that armor

That's a necro.

Damit. Well glad i dont have a necro then. Just another question. Will we be able to bring our heroes into PUGS? I mean there is a very good chance another person in the PUg with have the same hero customised in the other way. Can a Dev Comment on this? Im assuming for now that itll be the leaders heroes and not the other peoples hero.

Yes. It has beens said that two people can bring all three of their heroes and make a full team of 8.

I expected everything else, I'm just glad they decided to add skills to the Faction Professions. That alone makes me feel better about the whole thing.

EDITED: Thank god Varesh is in fact a hot dervish! \o\

I meant you use oath shot to recharge the signet. duh.

About the cast/rech, idk i'm afraid.

Still very powerful. Even if it is elite, there are loads of powerful spells. Mesmers will be able to use just about any spell at lv 16.

And it's not a spell

Haha, I appreciate everyone getting pissed at my opinion and thoughts. I wasn't saying people had to play with other people, I was just saying I am missing the point of buying an MMO then. So, am I really a hypocrite? No, do it anyway, it was just an opinion. Sheesh, don't get your hear broken over a lame MMO(again my opinion, not fact... silly GW fan boys/elitests).

Eh, whatever, if you deciede you don't like me cause I voiced an opinion, I guess you should move to some primative country so you can shoot people for it.

Again, I wasn't saying you have to play with real people, just isn't that why MMO's were made? It just seems like a step backwards IN MY OPINION!(not elitest bullshit that people have been saying about me.)

/ignoring Red1086 who's just trolling at this point

Even if it is Elite, how about this: Arcane Mimicry + Sig. of Illusion + Copied Elite = lev. 16 Elite of any Professsion.