Anti-Semitism in Guild Wars
{DvT}AARON
I am just posting to see if anyone else has experienced anti-Semitism or racism in guild wars that was not dealt with by NCSOFT in an appropriate manner.
Maria The Princess
never. had. any. questions. about. my. religion. or. nationality. from. anyone. outside. of. my. guild. who. heard. me. on. teamspeak.
Enchanted Warrior
I see it all the time in game, racism especially. Until they monitor chats this will continue. Even then people find ways back in game after being banned. The feeling around the forums is "Turn off that chat and don't worry about it". I disagree but was called a facist for suggesting stronger steps taken.
LOL
LOL
Tyggen
I see people with racist names every now and then, especially in the temple of balthazaar, but I don't let it get to me and I don't really pay any attention to them if they get banned or not. A few days ago a guild with a name closely knit to neo-nazis was controlling an area in cantha.
You can't stop people from saying things you don't like, but if you find something racist you should report them immediately. Make a screenshot of their names/comments and send it to anet.
You can't stop people from saying things you don't like, but if you find something racist you should report them immediately. Make a screenshot of their names/comments and send it to anet.
VitisVinifera
new to online gaming aaron?
Relambrien
Note especially the amount of derogatory comments in Random Arenas American District 1...give it 60 seconds and you're bound to find at least one. Best thing is to not let it get to you, but report the offenders. Never had any problems with Anet/NCSoft not dealing with it.
{DvT}AARON
(no... i hav been playin games online 4 ever)
This is the deal...
A player started to continuously harass me about my religion, so I took screen shots (10 of them). I reported the user and NCSOFT said that they dealt with the issue. Well that user is back on Guild Wars. Apparently botting is a more serious offence than CLEAR anti-Semitism and verbal harassment.
This is the deal...
A player started to continuously harass me about my religion, so I took screen shots (10 of them). I reported the user and NCSOFT said that they dealt with the issue. Well that user is back on Guild Wars. Apparently botting is a more serious offence than CLEAR anti-Semitism and verbal harassment.
Tyggen
How long was he offline? Most likely they gave him a 2-7 day ban and a warning. If you've gotten a warning or been banned you'll lose credit with anet, meaning they won't believe you if you complain about someone else. It also means you're more likely to get banned at a later occation.
If he continiues to harass you report him again, if not then you shouldn't pay any attention to him.
If he continiues to harass you report him again, if not then you shouldn't pay any attention to him.
RuPee
well this isn't really a new isuue, especially when its a free online game. something about free online games seems to be a magnet for these close-minded racist pricks who don't have an idea of what the hell they are talking about.
don't let it get to you. they feel safe saying it because they can hide behind thier computer screen, but the luxury of being an online game is you can always just ignore/set to offline/ or just turn off chat.
don't let it get to you. they feel safe saying it because they can hide behind thier computer screen, but the luxury of being an online game is you can always just ignore/set to offline/ or just turn off chat.
Loviatar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by {DvT}AARON
(no... i hav been playin games online 4 ever)
This is the deal... Quote:
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secondly did you really expect Anet to close out his 50 dollar account on your report?
what do you consider to be appropriate action for Anet to take?
{DvT}AARON
the player was a previous guild member.
Maria The Princess
i think it takes a few offences to get banned permanently
makosi
I presume you've added him to your ignore list? That itself is Anets answer to any sort of abuse from player to player so I think your problem was taken care of before it happened.
If you sent those images away then his account will probably be 'marked' in some way and repeat offences will come with greater punishments.
If you sent those images away then his account will probably be 'marked' in some way and repeat offences will come with greater punishments.
Loviatar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by {DvT}AARON
the player was a previous guild member.
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you seemed surprised in your initial post that he was back instead of gone permanently.
lyra_song
Dont be so thin skinned.
Move on. -.-
Theres just so much more you could focus your energy on.
Move on. -.-
Theres just so much more you could focus your energy on.
Brother Redmund
With reference to the post about racially based remarks in arenas, I tend to agree, there is a fair bit of that from my observation. I note that it tends to be based on the colour of ones skin rather than religion.
I often wonder to myself whether these people are genuinely racist (possible) or 12 year old idiots thinking that what they say is cool... I lean towards it being 12yo due to the puerile rubbish that tends to follow such remarks. Either way ignore it, or if it is highly offensive to you screenshot and report, thats about all you can do.
I often wonder to myself whether these people are genuinely racist (possible) or 12 year old idiots thinking that what they say is cool... I lean towards it being 12yo due to the puerile rubbish that tends to follow such remarks. Either way ignore it, or if it is highly offensive to you screenshot and report, thats about all you can do.
{DvT}AARON
"I am just posting to see if anyone else has experienced anti-Semitism or racism in guild wars that was not dealt with by NCSOFT in an appropriate manner."
im not asking for your advice on what i should do or should not do.
but thanx.
im not asking for your advice on what i should do or should not do.
but thanx.
oscarmac
Put him on your Ignore List. Problem solved.
gedye
I was on a mission a few days ago and a fellow player was constantly telling other members of the party that he/she hated black people and who else did....
Like the others I kept my mouth shut and just carried on fighting.
As is said above, there is nothing you can do except remain silent.
Perhaps in future these people will get bored and GROW UP.
Like the others I kept my mouth shut and just carried on fighting.
As is said above, there is nothing you can do except remain silent.
Perhaps in future these people will get bored and GROW UP.
Loviatar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by {DvT}AARON
"I am just posting to see if anyone else has experienced anti-Semitism or racism in guild wars that was not dealt with by NCSOFT in an appropriate manner."
im not asking for your advice on what i should do or should not do. but thanx. |
will you finally tell us what you consider an appropriate manner?
also why do you think Anet did not deal with it properly?
Y.T.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
how did *a player* know you were jewish unless you told him for some odd reason?
secondly did you really expect Anet to close out his 50 dollar account on your report? what do you consider to be appropriate action for Anet to take? |
also aaron why do u care about antisemitism only? 'cos u're jewish? why dont u care about racism in general? and i agree with loviatar, what do u expect from anet now, this player and u r both customers, therefore equal
if u want anet to imply some special rules to protect *jewish community in-game*, why stop there? lets bad all players accused in racist behaviour! and lets be PC full-time, and say that if any player that claims to be a minority of any kind (african-american, native american, gay, w/e, i've lost count alrdy 
) ever reports any kind of biased behavior towards him/her, his/her offenders should be banned for life? or what r u asking for? but isnt it too much? why did u start this thread - ppl who felt offended prolly reported w/e they wanted to report, its really easy to report unappropriate behaviour; why cant we leave it to anet to handle the problem - they're banning offenders all the time, they can handle it, dont worry.... compare to many mmrpg anet is efficient in such mattersoups, noticed ur reply - he's ur former guildie.... oh well, tolerance is a must, and i'm talking about both sides here - chances r u offended the guy, so he tryed to figure out the best way to offend u back... i agree that the way he chose isnt the best possible 1, but i cant see u as a victing only 'cos u're feeling offended.... its really hard to draw the line and say that this is a serious threat and thats just a stupid joke... being nice to ppl usually pays off
basically its a personal conflict between u and this guy, they way he decided to insult u is 2ndry here....
Mercury Angel
Some people may go out of their way to target a specific religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, nationality etc., but as a general rule, most specifics aren't very widespread.
Yes, I've heard 'jew' tossed around as an insult, but to be honest, korean/chinese/japanese bashing seems a lot more rampant. Perhaps because they're easier to pick out due to their unique languages.
So in short, no, I don't feel that anti-semitism is all that big a thing in GW. Yes, there is some, but there's a little bit of everything, about anything. People find the stupidest reasons to pick on each other.
Arena Net will ban people occasionally for offensive remarks, but keep in mind that they're usually temp bans. Unless it's extremely serious or frequent, I doubt you can hope for more.
Yes, I've heard 'jew' tossed around as an insult, but to be honest, korean/chinese/japanese bashing seems a lot more rampant. Perhaps because they're easier to pick out due to their unique languages.
So in short, no, I don't feel that anti-semitism is all that big a thing in GW. Yes, there is some, but there's a little bit of everything, about anything. People find the stupidest reasons to pick on each other.
Arena Net will ban people occasionally for offensive remarks, but keep in mind that they're usually temp bans. Unless it's extremely serious or frequent, I doubt you can hope for more.
Malice Black
Its only words over the internet..
Just be the mature one and ignore it..most of it is silly kids looking for attention.
Just be the mature one and ignore it..most of it is silly kids looking for attention.
redmen12
Loviatar, why do I get the feeling that you are bashing the op? Of course it will take at least 3 offences to get banned, but are you saying that he should never be banned? I belive that it was against the EULA to speak of Anti-Semitism, so should they not be banned? The EULA is similar to a contract or law, if you break a rule, then you must face the consiquence(i think i spelled that wrong).
To aaron, I feel your pain. In my past guild I was called names because I am Arab. I learned to put them on my ignore list and move on. I do belive that A-net should give an increasing ban on these things.
Example- offence 1: Banned for 3-5 days
Example- offence 2: Banned for 11-14 days
Example- offence 3: Banned for 20-30 days
Example- offence 4-9: Banned for 30-40 days
Example- offence 10: Permenant Ban
To aaron, I feel your pain. In my past guild I was called names because I am Arab. I learned to put them on my ignore list and move on. I do belive that A-net should give an increasing ban on these things.
Example- offence 1: Banned for 3-5 days
Example- offence 2: Banned for 11-14 days
Example- offence 3: Banned for 20-30 days
Example- offence 4-9: Banned for 30-40 days
Example- offence 10: Permenant Ban
Malice Black
Why do you tell people what nationality you are?
IrishCatholicNewYorker
anti semitism? clearly the group of people with the worst reputation in gw are the noobs.... lol jk srry that you had to deal with those remarks. My guildies char was black (or african american whatever you prefer) and some guy called him a n***** my poor guildie however is black(or african american whatever you prefer) in real life and was very offended he reported it to anet don't know what happened after that tho...
Loviatar
[QUOTE]
there is a big difference between ban and permaban which is evidently what the OP expected
to actually answer your last first they posted some time ago the sincreasing scale similar to what you listed leading eventually to permaban.
that exists already.
my *bash* if you wish to call it that is that *from his post* he seemed surprised that Anet did not permaban him on the spot
his original post states clearly that he expected harsher penalties and that Anet did not punish the offender to the OP`s satisfaction
[QUOTE]I am just posting to see if anyone else has experienced anti-Semitism or racism in guild wars that was not dealt with by NCSOFT in an appropriate manner.[/QUOTE]
that is why i am asking him to be specific on how Anet failed and what he expected.
ANET did say the offender was taken care of but obviously not to the OP`s satisfaction
Quote:
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Originally Posted by redmen12
Loviatar, why do I get the feeling that you are bashing the op? Of course it will take at least 3 offences to get banned, but are you saying that he should never be banned?
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to actually answer your last first they posted some time ago the sincreasing scale similar to what you listed leading eventually to permaban.
that exists already.
my *bash* if you wish to call it that is that *from his post* he seemed surprised that Anet did not permaban him on the spot
Quote:
| I reported the user and NCSOFT said that they dealt with the issue. Well that user is back on Guild Wars. |
[QUOTE]I am just posting to see if anyone else has experienced anti-Semitism or racism in guild wars that was not dealt with by NCSOFT in an appropriate manner.[/QUOTE]
that is why i am asking him to be specific on how Anet failed and what he expected.
ANET did say the offender was taken care of but obviously not to the OP`s satisfaction
Kook~NBK~
If in fact A-Net did take punitive measures of any kind, that should satisfy the offended. If the offender doesn't learn from the first "slap on the wrist," then he/she is going to keep up with the offensive behavior and will end up getting reported again - receiving harsher and harsher punishments for each successive incident.
"Suck it up" is not the answer. Yes, don't let those losers get to you, but there's no reason for anyone to sit there and take abuse. Don't goad the jerks on, just get the SSs (you can even say you've taken them!), leave the area, and send the report. Let the A-net guys deal with the loser.
"Turn off all chat and only associate with guildies" isn't the answer, either. That's penalizing yourself for the actions of others. There are far more decent people playing GW than there are jerks, so turning all chat off cuts you off from meeting those people, too.
"Suck it up" is not the answer. Yes, don't let those losers get to you, but there's no reason for anyone to sit there and take abuse. Don't goad the jerks on, just get the SSs (you can even say you've taken them!), leave the area, and send the report. Let the A-net guys deal with the loser.
"Turn off all chat and only associate with guildies" isn't the answer, either. That's penalizing yourself for the actions of others. There are far more decent people playing GW than there are jerks, so turning all chat off cuts you off from meeting those people, too.
Ork Pride
Quote:
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Originally Posted by redmen12
Loviatar, why do I get the feeling that you are bashing the op? Of course it will take at least 3 offences to get banned, but are you saying that he should never be banned? I belive that it was against the EULA to speak of Anti-Semitism, so should they not be banned? The EULA is similar to a contract or law, if you break a rule, then you must face the consiquence(i think i spelled that wrong).
To aaron, I feel your pain. In my past guild I was called names because I am Arab. I learned to put them on my ignore list and move on. I do belive that A-net should give an increasing ban on these things. Example- offence 1: Banned for 3-5 days Example- offence 2: Banned for 11-14 days Example- offence 3: Banned for 20-30 days Example- offence 4-9: Banned for 30-40 days Example- offence 10: Permenant Ban |
Usually they call me islamofascist because i am a muslim
I just throw insults and racist words back at them and then we laugh about it if we are friends or guildes. If not then they normally shutup and forget me lol.
redmen12
^^^
We are known to fight back lol
We are known to fight back lol
Sour Pancake
there are some things in life that we all have to deal with, for most of us, unfortunately one of those things is racism. its going to happen, on gw or in rl. you need to deal with it yourself, because yore not special. its not like theyre looking cool or anything saying it, not everyone needs to be punished.
lifes not fair.
lifes not fair.
{DvT}AARON
The problem i am having is with NCSOFT. They have just been going around in circles on my case. I asked them to define "a severe violation of the rules" told me they could not disclose any actions they may or may not have handed out. I also asked for them to be clear about NCSOFT's views on anti-semitism. They have not answered that question. they have run in circles around it. it makes u think......
{DvT}AARON
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Y.T.
never noticed any antisemitism in gw, have to admit that racist remarks happen but usually only against players who started african-american chars, cant say its a trend, but it happens smtimes. mentioning report to anet is usually enough to stop such remarks even in wierdest pugs... anet is hightly efficient in keeping the community clean, cant be 100% efficient but i think they're getting close to it....
also aaron why do u care about antisemitism only? 'cos u're jewish? why dont u care about racism in general? and i agree with loviatar, what do u expect from anet now, this player and u r both customers, therefore equal if u want anet to imply some special rules to protect *jewish community in-game*, why stop there? lets bad all players accused in racist behaviour! and lets be PC full-time, and say that if any player that claims to be a minority of any kind (african-american, native american, gay, w/e, i've lost count alrdy ) ever reports any kind of biased behavior towards him/her, his/her offenders should be banned for life? or what r u asking for? but isnt it too much? why did u start this thread - ppl who felt offended prolly reported w/e they wanted to report, its really easy to report unappropriate behaviour; why cant we leave it to anet to handle the problem - they're banning offenders all the time, they can handle it, dont worry.... compare to many mmrpg anet is efficient in such mattersoups, noticed ur reply - he's ur former guildie.... oh well, tolerance is a must, and i'm talking about both sides here - chances r u offended the guy, so he tryed to figure out the best way to offend u back... i agree that the way he chose isnt the best possible 1, but i cant see u as a victing only 'cos u're feeling offended.... its really hard to draw the line and say that this is a serious threat and thats just a stupid joke... being nice to ppl usually pays off basically its a personal conflict between u and this guy, they way he decided to insult u is 2ndry here.... |
ogami_ito
I would like to put my two cents into this discussion.
First of all, as moral citizens, moral human beings... you should say something or do something whenever you see racist, anti-Semitic, or just evil behaviour. Of course, I am an American and so I feel this way. Some foreign cultures don't believe confrontation is good. But damn it! They talk their crap, you got to let them know its NOT OK!
Second, for me, I just look down on them. I don't get that offended. How can you? Their ignorant. Or they are robotic (programmed from their environment to hate). Or the lack sense of self-worth. Either way, you should not get too upset. Take action sure…but don’t get upset. For me, when people talk crap about Jews, I feel shocked by their stupidity. And I am wary of them. But not angry. Its like if a mentally handicapped person annoys you… you just sort of step out of the way and hope that if they have children those children won’t have the same problems.
And after you take your action, Ignore. That will protect your enjoyment. Maybe also tell everyone else “WTS not really. I’m ignoring Confederate Soldier because he is a racist. I advise others to do the same”
As for ban… there are two thoughts on that. Is GW a public communications space, or is it a private game? The EULA suggests it is the latter. Hence, it would be appropriate for AANET (or NCSOFT…not sure which one) to take clear action and provide feedback to you what that action is. And monitor the results. And provide a more robust GM services.
HOWEVER, no matter what the EULA says, GW by its nature is an online community and communications space. This IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE. Courts have ruled that bulletin boards, although privately owned, can count as public communications space (I don’t really believe GW qualifies though). And in public spaces (assuming you believe in the ideas of the United States), all speech should be protected, including hateful speech. Otherwise, as some here have said, you are going to have ban requests over everything.
Just my two cents.
First of all, as moral citizens, moral human beings... you should say something or do something whenever you see racist, anti-Semitic, or just evil behaviour. Of course, I am an American and so I feel this way. Some foreign cultures don't believe confrontation is good. But damn it! They talk their crap, you got to let them know its NOT OK!
Second, for me, I just look down on them. I don't get that offended. How can you? Their ignorant. Or they are robotic (programmed from their environment to hate). Or the lack sense of self-worth. Either way, you should not get too upset. Take action sure…but don’t get upset. For me, when people talk crap about Jews, I feel shocked by their stupidity. And I am wary of them. But not angry. Its like if a mentally handicapped person annoys you… you just sort of step out of the way and hope that if they have children those children won’t have the same problems.
And after you take your action, Ignore. That will protect your enjoyment. Maybe also tell everyone else “WTS not really. I’m ignoring Confederate Soldier because he is a racist. I advise others to do the same”
As for ban… there are two thoughts on that. Is GW a public communications space, or is it a private game? The EULA suggests it is the latter. Hence, it would be appropriate for AANET (or NCSOFT…not sure which one) to take clear action and provide feedback to you what that action is. And monitor the results. And provide a more robust GM services.
HOWEVER, no matter what the EULA says, GW by its nature is an online community and communications space. This IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE. Courts have ruled that bulletin boards, although privately owned, can count as public communications space (I don’t really believe GW qualifies though). And in public spaces (assuming you believe in the ideas of the United States), all speech should be protected, including hateful speech. Otherwise, as some here have said, you are going to have ban requests over everything.
Just my two cents.
Loviatar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by {DvT}AARON
The problem i am having is with NCSOFT. They have just been going around in circles on my case. I asked them to define "a severe violation of the rules" told me they could not disclose any actions they may or may not have handed out. I also asked for them to be clear about NCSOFT's views on anti-semitism. They have not answered that question. they have run in circles around it. it makes u think......
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here is why you are not getting the detailed answer you seem to need.
ironically you wont specifically answer what you expected Anet to do
Quote:
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Disciplinary Process Basic Details When a player reports a possible infraction, we will investigate. We will take action and place account marks only after careful consideration and a review of all available facts. We are not able to give warnings; the first level of suspension is considered a form of warning, and should be accepted as such by the player. We will not contact you externally (via email) to inform you of disciplinary action on your account. Instead, you will receive an in-game message that will inform you of the suspension, the cause, and its duration. Those who report a possible rules infraction by another player will not be informed of the outcome of our investigation; for privacy reasons, disciplinary actions will be a private matter between our staff and the affected player. The suspension periods are designed to be effective and fair. The first mark results in a very short suspension; players who slip up once in a great while will not suffer dire consequences. The suspension periods do scale up, though, in order to better handle those players who are in regular breach of the Rules of Conduct. For them, the account marks can add up to weeks of suspension. Bans will be placed on a Guild Wars account in only the most severe of abuses, but in some instances they will be placed, and they will be permanent. |
ZenRgy
Welcome to the internet.
{DvT}AARON
There is a point where freedom of speech ends. You can claim freedom of speech to get your ideas acrross etc. But i dont think freedom of speech implies that you can verbaly harrass a person. This has been going on for about a month. The person in question has repeatidly sent me pm's in game with antisemetic commects, spammed our ventrilo server with anti semetic commets (we had his ip on the ban list), and today he spamed me with im's from about 10 different screen names at once. I cant play gw now without thinking that this guy is out there. I have done nothing wrong and yet i suffer. By NCSOFT not puting a perminant ban on this account i still suffer. I am not special. But in the rules it states that bans will be handed out in severe cases. WTF IS A SEVERE CASE???? NCSOFT wont tell me.
now i would like to keep this on the subject of past experiances with nc and not my story. if you want 2 know more about this pm me or sumthin....
o ya i suck at spelling.....as u can c.
now i would like to keep this on the subject of past experiances with nc and not my story. if you want 2 know more about this pm me or sumthin....
o ya i suck at spelling.....as u can c.
ogami_ito
man. That does sound like a serious case. That's not yelling something out in public. That's continous targeted harrasment. NCSOFT should do something and quick.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by {DvT}AARON
There is a point where freedom of speech ends. You can claim freedom of speech to get your ideas acrross etc. But i dont think freedom of speech implies that you can verbaly harrass a person. This has been going on for about a month. The person in question has repeatidly sent me pm's in game with antisemetic commects, spammed our ventrilo server with anti semetic commets (we had his ip on the ban list), and today he spamed me with im's from about 10 different screen names at once. I cant play gw now without thinking that this guy is out there.
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-.-
Keep track of every offense and report him.
Have witnesses report him.
research your state and his state (you have his ip, trace him) to see if there are cyberstalking laws.
Bring a lawsuit to his ISP.
Loviatar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by {DvT}AARON
By NCSOFT not puting a perminant ban on this account i still suffer. I am not special. But in the rules it states that bans will be handed out in severe cases. WTF IS A SEVERE CASE???? NCSOFT wont tell me.
. |
from your post
Quote:
| I reported the user and NCSOFT said that they dealt with the issue. Well that user is back on Guild Wars. |
if that was the first report you sent in on him Anet is treating it as a first offence.
it doesnt matter how long he has been doing it if you havent reported it from the start