New Ranger Skills!!
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Ruling
Toxicity is hax. Gives more Degen than Lacerate, and triggers off more conditions. And isn't elite.
-4 is possible at 12 beast. I'd expect a rebalance on that one. At least making it an elite so you can't use it with Oath shot.
-4 is possible at 12 beast. I'd expect a rebalance on that one. At least making it an elite so you can't use it with Oath shot.
Zui
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
I'd expect a rebalance on that one. At least making it an elite so you can't use it with Oath shot.
Do that and no one will run it, ever. Plus, I think they've already decided on what skills will be Elite and which skills won't be Elite.
lennymon
pure peastmastery r/x with posinous bite and tox... and heck, whatever else
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
I'd expect a rebalance on that one. At least making it an elite so you can't use it with Oath shot.
Zui said it... if they made it elite no-one would use it... exactly why no-one uses Lacerate or Seeping Wound. I can see them lowering the degen by 1 point to make it -1 to -4 or improving Lacerate/Seeping... both really do suck with this skill around (even more so than before).
Without Oath Shot there for spirits... nobody will use them, the more elite spirits they make the more elite spirits people will avoid. Its not as if they're hard to kill.
Without Oath Shot there for spirits... nobody will use them, the more elite spirits they make the more elite spirits people will avoid. Its not as if they're hard to kill.
XvArchonvX
Since the effectiveness of Toxicity is affected by the amount of attributes spent in Beast Mastery, I don't think this skill will be incredibly overpowered since it will require a near full beast master to be able to use the skill very effectively.
I do see this skill as being something that would work well with an apply poison, Heket's Rampage and possibly even EoE. Since you should be able to lower a large group of enemies health below 90% quickly with degen, EoE may actually come in handy despite or maybe even because of the nerf.
I do see this skill as being something that would work well with an apply poison, Heket's Rampage and possibly even EoE. Since you should be able to lower a large group of enemies health below 90% quickly with degen, EoE may actually come in handy despite or maybe even because of the nerf.
Bloodied Blade
I'm really interested to see what all the "does x on critical" stuff is planned for... maybe a new type of rune or weapon style?
XvArchonvX
Is it me, or is Scavenger's Focus {E} skill blatantly inferior to Read the Winds?
Read the Winds:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Read_the_Wind
Scavenger's Focus:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Scavenger%27s_Focus
Read the Winds:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Read_the_Wind
Scavenger's Focus:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Scavenger%27s_Focus
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
Is it me, or is Scavenger's Focus {E} skill blatantly inferior to Read the Winds?
Read the Winds:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Read_the_Wind
Scavenger's Focus:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Scavenger%27s_Focus Inferior isn't the word.... completely and utterly useless would of been more accurate. I mean come on... until the added damage is nearer the likes of Melandrus Arrows, which is also a conditional prep, that elite is absolutely awful.
Read the Winds:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Read_the_Wind
Scavenger's Focus:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Scavenger%27s_Focus Inferior isn't the word.... completely and utterly useless would of been more accurate. I mean come on... until the added damage is nearer the likes of Melandrus Arrows, which is also a conditional prep, that elite is absolutely awful.
XvArchonvX
ok, thnx for the confirmation. I don't think I've seen such an obviously bad elite before, so I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something subtle to the skill that I was missing. 
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
ok, thnx for the confirmation. I don't think I've seen such an obviously bad elite before, so I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something subtle to the skill that I was missing.
I just skip over it when I review the skills... it hurts my eyes. It even has a scale and it's still worse.
I just skip over it when I review the skills... it hurts my eyes. It even has a scale and it's still worse.
Former Ruling
Quote:
They might reconsider the attribute organization to make -4 at like 15 beast or something though.
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My elite analysis now:
Rampage as One:
EXPENSIVE, and doesnt make sense in any real build. You gotta have a pet and HIGH beastmastery to use it - and pet builds usually dont glorify the ranger himself - and Pets ALREADY HAVE A SHOUT THAT DOES THIS, AND IT CAN BE UP ALL THE TIME. SO we are paying extra, giving up Enraged Lunge, and it cant be up all the time, just so you can attack faster with your bow that you probably dont even met the requirement of.
Strike as One:
Again...Elite slot (so no Enraged Lunge or Fero strike, the only real reasons to use Pets for actual attacking) and it doesn't do much....ONE use of ENraged Lunge outdmgs ALL of the attacks this effects put together.
Expert's Dexterity:
Constantly re-doing it because of its low duration...Even at 16 expertise, it makes your attacks cost MORE than the original cost, for half recharge? Most of the attacks have lower recharges anyway...Like Archer's Signet..no use. This even hurts Expertise as an attribute..taking the one thing rangers have in low costs and asking them to use the attacks MORE?
Sweltering Heat:
I love Ranger spirits, so this is a BIAS ALERT. !!! I dont like this as much as maybe some others, I'll test it. I love taking stuff in Alliance Battles and seeing how much it changes the battle
Of course its useless for anything else, Elite Spirit = no Oath Shot. Burning Arrow:
For PvE areas where barrage doesnt apply, I'd use it. If Burning lasts its full duration, this does near +100 dmg to the target lol. in PvP..alot better elites.
Prepared Shot:
Again...like some other ranger bow attack elites...not really NEEDED. Its basically is net energy gain under a prep...but is that needed? theres better elites for bow attack rangers, they dont need an elite slot used for energy.
Scavenger's Focus:
LAWL. Nuff Said. NONELITE preps like Kindle Arrows are better than this.
Smoke Trap:
Better than Spike Trap? yea. Does that mean anything? Not really...In PvP trappers would use Oath Shot, and in PvE traps are for dmg, not the conditions, and this does no dmg. It just doesnt have a Niche... I might use it in alliance battles though, and I'd HATE pve monsters that carried it
Weariness:
REFER TO SWELTERING HEAT!!! I like this one...It'll be HAX when I set this in Alliance Battles (
Magebane Shot:
Seems haxzors at first, "End of Choking gas!!@@!!", but if you DONT hit a spell...guess what..10 sec recharge on your main interupt
Is it better than Punishing Shot? Sure for interupting, will it replace choking? No...EDIT: I have been corrected by someone, somewhat, on the subject of "As One" skills. Of the two we have now 1 of them works without needing a pet, and one of them needs a live pet inorder to activate. So I'll need tests of these new elites to see which way they are. Still doesn't change my overall opinion of the skills, but makes part of my argument against them invalid.
Craze Horse
I'm hoping for some kind of Scavengers Focus buff for use with Needling Shot. In concept, this could get very nasty.
Experts Dexterity could be pretty decent for Debil spam possibly. I don't predict this will be used much.
Experts Dexterity could be pretty decent for Debil spam possibly. I don't predict this will be used much.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Ruling
Prepared Shot:
Again...like some other ranger bow attack elites...not really NEEDED. Its basically is net energy gain under a prep...but is that needed? theres better elites for bow attack rangers, they dont need an elite slot used for energy.
Nevermind that it's one of the most damaging skills for only five energy. You need to look beyond the energy gain. This skill deals very respectable damage (more damage per energy than Mauraders/Melandrus) with no negative condition or trait (ie... Focused Shot) for next to nothing in energy. You can essentialy use this skill and an interrupt or other attack skill consequtively for free, allowing you to keep up a steady stream of attack skills indefinately. I don't care how good you are at conserving your energy. Using one attack skill every two or three normal attacks can't compare with using your attack skills everytime they recharge.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Ruling
Smoke Trap:
Better than Spike Trap? yea. Does that mean anything? Not really...In PvP trappers would use Oath Shot, and in PvE traps are for dmg, not the conditions, and this does no dmg. It just doesnt have a Niche... I might use it in alliance battles though, and I'd HATE pve monsters that carried it
Does Vimway ring any bells? Traps are used for conditions just as much as damage. As part of Vimway i'd say its the conditions more so than anything. Cripple, blind, bleeding, burning, poison, all very powerful conditions. On single targets they don't accomplish much, but when on almost everything the conditions do so much more damage than the traps ever could. The only advantage Dust Trap has is that (for some unknown reason) its armour ignoring damage so makes for some major pain when stacked. Of course been as ViM is elite Smoke Trap won't be there.
As for other forms of PvP. Now the recharge of Oath Shot was upped to 25 seconds most traps have almost entirely recharged, bar Whirling/Dirt. Dirt isn't too useful in PvP and Whirling usually gets rid of any attackers anyway and you've just gotta hope they don't come back while its recharging (surely your own traps help then anyway) but this trap could create some major pressure if all your casters were running around been hit with Dazed every so often, Cyclone Axe/Triple Chop would create chaos if they could interrupt everything nearby.
Better than Spike Trap? yea. Does that mean anything? Not really...In PvP trappers would use Oath Shot, and in PvE traps are for dmg, not the conditions, and this does no dmg. It just doesnt have a Niche... I might use it in alliance battles though, and I'd HATE pve monsters that carried it
Does Vimway ring any bells? Traps are used for conditions just as much as damage. As part of Vimway i'd say its the conditions more so than anything. Cripple, blind, bleeding, burning, poison, all very powerful conditions. On single targets they don't accomplish much, but when on almost everything the conditions do so much more damage than the traps ever could. The only advantage Dust Trap has is that (for some unknown reason) its armour ignoring damage so makes for some major pain when stacked. Of course been as ViM is elite Smoke Trap won't be there.As for other forms of PvP. Now the recharge of Oath Shot was upped to 25 seconds most traps have almost entirely recharged, bar Whirling/Dirt. Dirt isn't too useful in PvP and Whirling usually gets rid of any attackers anyway and you've just gotta hope they don't come back while its recharging (surely your own traps help then anyway) but this trap could create some major pressure if all your casters were running around been hit with Dazed every so often, Cyclone Axe/Triple Chop would create chaos if they could interrupt everything nearby.
Former Ruling
SnipiousMax - Even at 5 energy, my opinion of the skill doesn't change.
Evilsod - I ddin't mention ViMway for the same reason you stopped mentioning it - They too can't use Smoke Trap cause its Elite. To clarify the conditions thing, I said in PVE traps=Damage, so your argument about conditions and such is off base because I already knew why conditions were used in PvP, but that wasnt what that sentence in my post as about.
AS for Oath Shot, saying its 25 recharge is longer than most traps recharges isn't saying much, cause even when it was 20 sec recharge, its recharge was still the same as most of the traps...So by your logic Oath Shot has always been useless for Trappers. But that isn't why Oath Shot is used at all. It isn't Glyph of Renewel where it is used to basically turn the recharge of any spell to 16 - Oath shot isn't to turn the recharge of traps to 25 (20 formerly), its simply there to reload the traps after you use them so they are ready to use the next time you see fit to use them.
And I know Smoke Traps usefulness, I even said "Better than Spike Trap? yea" I didn't go into detail about what Dazed does, but I assumed people would catch the drift. But I still stand firm that Oath Shot is just a million times more effective for active trapping. Like I told SnipiousMax, These are my opinions...
EDIT: I have been corrected by someone, somewhat, on the subject of "As One" skills. Of the two we have now 1 of them works without needing a pet, and one of them needs a live pet inorder to activate. So I'll need tests of these new elites to see which way they are. Still doesn't change my overall opinion of the skills, but makes part of my argument against them invalid.
Evilsod - I ddin't mention ViMway for the same reason you stopped mentioning it - They too can't use Smoke Trap cause its Elite. To clarify the conditions thing, I said in PVE traps=Damage, so your argument about conditions and such is off base because I already knew why conditions were used in PvP, but that wasnt what that sentence in my post as about.
AS for Oath Shot, saying its 25 recharge is longer than most traps recharges isn't saying much, cause even when it was 20 sec recharge, its recharge was still the same as most of the traps...So by your logic Oath Shot has always been useless for Trappers. But that isn't why Oath Shot is used at all. It isn't Glyph of Renewel where it is used to basically turn the recharge of any spell to 16 - Oath shot isn't to turn the recharge of traps to 25 (20 formerly), its simply there to reload the traps after you use them so they are ready to use the next time you see fit to use them.
And I know Smoke Traps usefulness, I even said "Better than Spike Trap? yea" I didn't go into detail about what Dazed does, but I assumed people would catch the drift. But I still stand firm that Oath Shot is just a million times more effective for active trapping. Like I told SnipiousMax, These are my opinions...
EDIT: I have been corrected by someone, somewhat, on the subject of "As One" skills. Of the two we have now 1 of them works without needing a pet, and one of them needs a live pet inorder to activate. So I'll need tests of these new elites to see which way they are. Still doesn't change my overall opinion of the skills, but makes part of my argument against them invalid.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Ruling
Heck, if you run 13 in Expertise on top of using this skill, you regen the energy you use in the time it takes to fire the attack, and gain 7 or more energy from the skill's effect.
Better question to ask... "What are you going to do with all that energy?"
That my friend, we'll leave to the sages.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
lol, sry couldn't resist. In all honesty, the extra energy really does come in handy to allow a ranger to endure long fights without needing downtime to recharge when spamming high energy attack/interupt skills (Concussion Shot anyone?).
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
lol, sry couldn't resist. In all honesty, the extra energy really does come in handy to allow a ranger to endure long fights without needing downtime to recharge when spamming high energy attack/interupt skills (Concussion Shot anyone?). heh
Actually, I was thinking that it would make using Ritualist weapon spells somewhat viable on a Ranger primary.
Former Ruling
Quote:
As for that PvE I mentioned, I'd bring Prepared Shot sometimes sure..It isnt like your elite really MATTERS all that much in PvE, I've used worse with excellent results. Ranger's suffer from not having as clear cut elite options as other classes (exception being Beastmastery, where there are obvious choices), and often find themselves just grabbing an elite and saying "hmm, good eonugh, and I need an elite", thats why Barrage is brought so much - its an easy choice, and Punishing shot is "welp, I guess another interupt wont HURT".
But personally (Extreme just personal opinion here) I'd still pack Melandru's Shot over this. 5 more energy nets me more Dmg (and we all know PvE is all about killing that Charr fast), and in most areas atleast half the enemies use enchantments so its net energy too.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Ruling
Quote:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Former Ruling
But personally (Extreme just personal opinion here) I'd still pack Melandru's Shot over this. 5 more energy nets me more Dmg (and we all know PvE is all about killing that Charr fast), and in most areas atleast half the enemies use enchantments so its net energy too.
I'm not sure I agree that most areas have at least half of the enemies with enchantments, but in certain areas, Melandru's Shot can be a good choice.
Munanko Roha
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
Better question to ask... "What are you going to do with all that energy?"
That my friend, we'll leave to the sages. For Needling Shot spamming for example, it would really save your day..
Spirit Of Azrael
Toxicity = SoaD FTW.
Also, Sweltering + Dragon Slash...
SnipiousMax
Rejumpstarting the discussion. Please post changes as you find them, and discuss how well they were balanced since the preview.
Crossfire now only costs five energy. At five energy, with a condition that's fairly easy to meet (especially with a melee range hero in your group) it's not a bad skill anymore. I'm not sure that it's exactly needed or better than anything else in the Marks line... but it's at least on par now.
King's Spectre
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
Is it me, or is Scavenger's Focus {E} skill blatantly inferior to Read the Winds?
Read the Winds: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Read_the_Wind Scavenger's Focus: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Scavenger%27s_Focus It looks like Scavenger's would work on non-bow attacks. Anyone know? It could be nice for 'sins and dervs if that were the case.
Orange Milk
I put Crossfire on myslef and my Ranger Hero. With the 5e and +20 dmg bonus its a good skill, EVERY Bowman you encounter runs defensive stances and We could still do DMG while waiting to get "Wild Blow" on them with the Warrior Hero.
They lowered "Barbed Arrows" from 15e to 10e and eventhough I think it still is less of a skill than "Apply Poision" but its better now. |
