These PuG monks are driving me insane! alot of these monks are just spamming heal party and heavens delight while completely relying on me to heal the other players and then when they run outta energy for spamming hp and hd they just spam their low energy and yell at the necro to use BR or BiP on them and if they dont have those spells they yell at the necro and when they die they blame it on me! i can barely keep them all alive so ussually i wont heal the monk cuz all their doing is spamming hp alot of times we can make it through but when we dont the monk cusses me out and blames me for not healing..WTF? so i ussually have to heal the whole party and when i run outta energy we ussualy fail the mission cuz the other monk can only spam hp for long before running out of energy but even tho the other monk is spamming hp its not going to do much good and the party ussually fails...
Has anyone else experienced this?
Eragon
PuG Monks driving me INSANE!
Eragon Dragonslayer
Tainek
paragraphs are your freind
but i agree with the gist, my monk cries when the other monk uses just healing breeze and heal party, but as long as the rest of the team is competent, i can usually solo the healing
but i agree with the gist, my monk cries when the other monk uses just healing breeze and heal party, but as long as the rest of the team is competent, i can usually solo the healing
Tremere
3 letters :
WoH.
WoH.
explodemyheart
I really don't have a lot of problems with other monks using HP a lot, it's more that all they do is sit there and spam healing breeze on everybody. I don't even carry HB on my bar for anything but 55, so watching other monks sit there and spam it makes my inner monk weep uncontrollably.
It takes a lot for me to start having problems with energy, I almost never have to ping to let the party know I'm low or let the necro know I might need a boost. The other monk pings constantly, and when they ping sometimes I ping my 40-45 energy to prove a point and I get blamed for OMG I'M OBVIOUSLY DOING ALL THE WORK AND YOU'RE DOING NOTHING IF YOU HAVE THAT MUCH ENERGY!
It takes a lot for me to start having problems with energy, I almost never have to ping to let the party know I'm low or let the necro know I might need a boost. The other monk pings constantly, and when they ping sometimes I ping my 40-45 energy to prove a point and I get blamed for OMG I'M OBVIOUSLY DOING ALL THE WORK AND YOU'RE DOING NOTHING IF YOU HAVE THAT MUCH ENERGY!
Verticle Cleave
It's ironic that Izzy(The GM) was a MO/ME in the guild "PuG"... o.O;;;; xD
Kais Unduli
I've seen the same thing happening a lot in Cantha for some reason. Which ever other monk I'm paired up with, I notice them spamming Heal Party/Aegis/Heal Other/Healing Breeze, and that's it really. If those 4 skills are used in succession, that monk has just burned through 50 energy in around 6 seconds. Really makes me scatched my head.
The real problem is, since groups overly depend on monks for pve, they get by pretty much by default. Monking isn't that hard, but it's hard to find good monks.
The real problem is, since groups overly depend on monks for pve, they get by pretty much by default. Monking isn't that hard, but it's hard to find good monks.
Juicey Shake
lesson: henchies > pug monks?...
Tyggen
I'm more bothered with bad monks then monks that can't choose their skills wisely... A week ago I was doing a mission where the other monk kept pushing ahead, he was like Alesia - always in front of the warriors. He tried to pull the monsters by wanding them, then running back to let the warriors take the attack. This failed, of course, leaving all the monsters on him. Every time.
I must've spent 2/3 of my energy in that mission keeping him alive.
Amazingly enough, he never blamed me (in public at least) for him dying a couple of times.
That was the last time I played monk in a PUG unless the other monk was a good friend of mine.
I must've spent 2/3 of my energy in that mission keeping him alive.
Amazingly enough, he never blamed me (in public at least) for him dying a couple of times.
That was the last time I played monk in a PUG unless the other monk was a good friend of mine.
ateddybear
When I notice them spamming healing breeze/heal party etc I usually tell them that spamming those will eat up energy quickly. One had the nerve to tell me I was wrong. One debated that the health regen from healing breeze was better than a straight heal from orison. Lastly, one even told me that heal other was ten times better than orison because it heals more, and he always pinged his energy when he had <10 which was like every minute.
Zinger314
PuGs having bad players? ALERT THE INTERNET!
Anyways, you should always carry a defensive skill, even if you have Monks, such as Healing Signet, Parasitic Bond...
Anyways, you should always carry a defensive skill, even if you have Monks, such as Healing Signet, Parasitic Bond...
Thargor
Sadly I have to agree. I only play my mok for guildies now.
I will not monk for a pug cause I am tired of idiot warriors, worthless monks like those mentioned above, and countless other things that a monk has to put up with in this game.
Blind invites are the worst though. If you invite someone and they reject it you don't need to keep reinviting them.
I will not monk for a pug cause I am tired of idiot warriors, worthless monks like those mentioned above, and countless other things that a monk has to put up with in this game.
Blind invites are the worst though. If you invite someone and they reject it you don't need to keep reinviting them.
Tremere
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ateddybear
When I notice them spamming healing breeze/heal party etc I usually tell them that spamming those will eat up energy quickly. One had the nerve to tell me I was wrong. One debated that the health regen from healing breeze was better than a straight heal from orison. Lastly, one even told me that heal other was ten times better than orison because it heals more, and he always pinged his energy when he had <10 which was like every minute.
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Umm... just so you know, Breeze *does* blow Orison away, in total health healed over time, even 2 casts of Orison to equate that 10 energy for the 10 energy to cast Breeze. And it'll totally rape Orison with enchantment length bonus mods.
beta man
just leave the game, i normally will just map out if i had players screaming at me to heal them and stuff like that.
Katari
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tremere
Umm... just so you know, Breeze *does* blow Orison away, in total health healed over time, even 2 casts of Orison to equate that 10 energy for the 10 energy to cast Breeze. And it'll totally rape Orison with enchantment length bonus mods.
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However, if that player hits max health at any point in the duration of Breeze, some of that efficency is lost. Countering bleeding with Breeze means 70% of the healing is wasted, assuming no other dmage is taken. Monks cannot afford to carelessly throw around 10e heals, but that's what an overwhelming majority of PUG monks tend to do with breeze. To repeat myself, Breeze is only worthwhile if your target dosn't hit max health during the duration, a situation that is not very common. Breeze is far more situational than people treat it.
shadowtwin
Caution -- Totally opinionated content, which is loosely based on personal experience follows:
Funny thing about PuG monks is that the ones that are eager to join your group SUCK! Without exception. The good monks can easily assemble a group of henchemen in any mission or area and do it themselves. That means that a lot of the PuG monks that you see are just Wammos that made a second character since no one would group with them anymore.
I too will only play the monk if the second monk is someone that I actually know, and then we will always create the group based on pre-conceived notions (such as Assassins all think they can tank, and Wammos have no functioning brain).
Henchemen Healers are better than 99.732% of the PuG healers I have played with, and as a bonus they will always join your group.
Funny thing about PuG monks is that the ones that are eager to join your group SUCK! Without exception. The good monks can easily assemble a group of henchemen in any mission or area and do it themselves. That means that a lot of the PuG monks that you see are just Wammos that made a second character since no one would group with them anymore.
I too will only play the monk if the second monk is someone that I actually know, and then we will always create the group based on pre-conceived notions (such as Assassins all think they can tank, and Wammos have no functioning brain).
Henchemen Healers are better than 99.732% of the PuG healers I have played with, and as a bonus they will always join your group.
ramma77
1 word
henchies
henchies
explodemyheart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tremere
And it'll totally rape Orison with enchantment length bonus mods.
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Zinger314
This won't be a problem in Nightfall, where everyone and their mother will be using a Monk hero.
Former Ruling
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
This won't be a problem in Nightfall, where everyone and their mother will be using a Monk hero.
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EDIT: Heal Party is an awesome monk spell for PvE, I'm not knocking it, I carry it on healing monk pve builds. But These people, and AI, cannot handle when to use it.
draxynnic
Been there, done that. There's been more than one time when I've felt with my monk that I was the only one doing the healing. To give the benefit of the doubt, in some of these cases the other monk may have been prot, which is somewhat harder to spot than healing - however, I generally don't notice a lack of healing from the other monk when I know they're running prot, and there have been at least a couple of cases where the other monk advertised healing... and wasn't.
I'll admit to using Heal Party... but it's situational - I only use it when at least three other party members are injured (which is to say, when it has an energy efficiency similar to Orison) and not when I need to be pumping healing into one person. Apart from that, it's all 5e skills - if it's healing over time you want, Vigorous Spirit does wonders.
However, I agree that heroes are likely to reduce reliance on human monks - possibly most importantly because you have control over their skills, so you can strip out the skills that the AI can't be trusted to use without doing stupid things (Healing Touch and Alesia and, slightly off topic, Firestorm and Orion comes to mind). The new henchman controls will also help a bundle - I know there are people who say they have completed the game with henchmen, but for those of us who aren't experts at the existing henchman controls of 'click where you want to go and hope they listen and don't decide to rush in while your trying to lure those Jades away from the tower', I can see the henchman controls making missions that would otherwise be impractical to hench henchable...
I'll admit to using Heal Party... but it's situational - I only use it when at least three other party members are injured (which is to say, when it has an energy efficiency similar to Orison) and not when I need to be pumping healing into one person
. Apart from that, it's all 5e skills - if it's healing over time you want, Vigorous Spirit does wonders.However, I agree that heroes are likely to reduce reliance on human monks - possibly most importantly because you have control over their skills, so you can strip out the skills that the AI can't be trusted to use without doing stupid things (Healing Touch and Alesia and, slightly off topic, Firestorm and Orion comes to mind). The new henchman controls will also help a bundle - I know there are people who say they have completed the game with henchmen, but for those of us who aren't experts at the existing henchman controls of 'click where you want to go and hope they listen and don't decide to rush in while your trying to lure those Jades away from the tower', I can see the henchman controls making missions that would otherwise be impractical to hench henchable...
cerb
Heal Party is proooooooooo
so my fav skill
so my fav skill
tomcruisejr
try giving Koss the healing monk skill bar
Akhilleus
healing breeze has earned a place on my bar (in most cases) for 1 reason and 1 reason only...its a very, very nice self-heal. why not use healing touch?
healing breeze allows me to slap a heal on myself, only healing as much as it needs too, and then worry about allies instead.
if i use single-point self heals, then 2 secconds later if i take dmg again, ill be subject to needing another heal.
its a fire&forget heal...which has its uses.
that having been said, i avoid it like the plague in ch2, as virtually every enemy group has a mesmer with some form of ench shatter on them.
i believe any decent heal-monk will have 1 or 2 10 energy spike-heals for emergencies, 3-5 5 energy heals for standard stuff (aka WoH, orison, dwaynas kiss, etc), 1 res, and in most areas a signet heal works as well. recently sig of rejuvination has replaced sig of devotion on my PvE skillbar, as it casts faster, and i dont really use SoD constantly anyway, just for minor point heals. not to mention, that 90% of the time, its going to heal for a pretty decent amount (appx 143)...but this is all my opinion. but, i rarely run out of energy, and almost always keep people alive (the occasional spike or overextention does take its toll).
healing breeze allows me to slap a heal on myself, only healing as much as it needs too, and then worry about allies instead.
if i use single-point self heals, then 2 secconds later if i take dmg again, ill be subject to needing another heal.
its a fire&forget heal...which has its uses.
that having been said, i avoid it like the plague in ch2, as virtually every enemy group has a mesmer with some form of ench shatter on them.
i believe any decent heal-monk will have 1 or 2 10 energy spike-heals for emergencies, 3-5 5 energy heals for standard stuff (aka WoH, orison, dwaynas kiss, etc), 1 res, and in most areas a signet heal works as well. recently sig of rejuvination has replaced sig of devotion on my PvE skillbar, as it casts faster, and i dont really use SoD constantly anyway, just for minor point heals. not to mention, that 90% of the time, its going to heal for a pretty decent amount (appx 143)...but this is all my opinion. but, i rarely run out of energy, and almost always keep people alive (the occasional spike or overextention does take its toll).
VanDamselx
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Akhilleus
healing breeze has earned a place on my bar (in most cases) for 1 reason and 1 reason only...its a very, very nice self-heal. why not use healing touch?
healing breeze allows me to slap a heal on myself, only healing as much as it needs too, and then worry about allies instead. if i use single-point self heals, then 2 secconds later if i take dmg again, ill be subject to needing another heal. its a fire&forget heal...which has its uses. that having been said, i avoid it like the plague in ch2, as virtually every enemy group has a mesmer with some form of ench shatter on them. i believe any decent heal-monk will have 1 or 2 10 energy spike-heals for emergencies, 3-5 5 energy heals for standard stuff (aka WoH, orison, dwaynas kiss, etc), 1 res, and in most areas a signet heal works as well. recently sig of rejuvination has replaced sig of devotion on my PvE skillbar, as it casts faster, and i dont really use SoD constantly anyway, just for minor point heals. not to mention, that 90% of the time, its going to heal for a pretty decent amount (appx 143)...but this is all my opinion. but, i rarely run out of energy, and almost always keep people alive (the occasional spike or overextention does take its toll). |
Warrior1986
My question is why do most monks in PuGs (I'd say at least 75-80%) think they are the greatest thing since slicest bread? I understand the mindset that "without me, you won't live" thing (which isn't true by a LONGSHOT, but I guess some people can't see that), but is it so hard to understand that without that ranger interrupting that warrior using eviscerate on you or without that warrior holding aggro, you can be dead in seconds? Remember that philosophy of give and take?
This isn't meant to offend anyone, as all the monks in my Guild along with some monks I've met through PvE, AB, etc are really great people and are an asset to the group. But I've always wanted to try and understand what is it exactly that makes the PuG monk think the way that 75-80% of them do? Is it as simple as ego-stroking?
This isn't meant to offend anyone, as all the monks in my Guild along with some monks I've met through PvE, AB, etc are really great people and are an asset to the group. But I've always wanted to try and understand what is it exactly that makes the PuG monk think the way that 75-80% of them do? Is it as simple as ego-stroking?
HawkofStorms
My personally favorite which happened today:
Pug monk in Imperial Sanctum said "I'll try to keep mending on Togo and Mhenlo so they don't die."
*sigh*
Pug monk in Imperial Sanctum said "I'll try to keep mending on Togo and Mhenlo so they don't die."
*sigh*
Former Ruling
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Originally Posted by Warrior1986
My question is why do most monks in PuGs (I'd say at least 75-80%) think they are the greatest thing since slicest bread? I understand the mindset that "without me, you won't live" thing (which isn't true by a LONGSHOT, but I guess some people can't see that), but is it so hard to understand that without that ranger interrupting that warrior using eviscerate on you or without that warrior holding aggro, you can be dead in seconds? Remember that philosophy of give and take?
This isn't meant to offend anyone, as all the monks in my Guild along with some monks I've met through PvE, AB, etc are really great people and are an asset to the group. But I've always wanted to try and understand what is it exactly that makes the PuG monk think the way that 75-80% of them do? Is it as simple as ego-stroking? |
True damage is important and interuptting or whatever, but I'll explain why monks can get ego-driven alot in PvE:
In an outpost, you'll find TONS of those Rangers willing to interupt, TONS of warriors willing to use that Eviserate, TONS of Necros that will SS or MM, TONS of whatever that will whatever, But that Monk...Is alot of the time the ONLY monk in that district that will go with you, and you likely had to wait 5 or more minutes for him to zone in.
So you can see where some people would get an ego.
VanDamselx
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Former Ruling
In an outpost, you'll find TONS of those Rangers willing to interupt, TONS of warriors willing to use that Eviserate, TONS of Necros that will SS or MM, TONS of whatever that will whatever, But that Monk...Is alot of the time the ONLY monk in that district that will go with you, and you likely had to wait 5 or more minutes for him to zone in. So you can see where some people would get an ego. |
Monks are usually scarce and in high demand. I would have to say that even if you spammed, "Don't go with XX XXXX because he's a noob" he'd still be able to find a group faster than if you did the same thing to a warrior because people need them.
Kook~NBK~
Boon Prot + Healing > Healing + Healing!
I say this a healing monk and Oh MAN do I love when the second monk goes Boon/Prot! I never have energy problems, because there's not a lot of healing that I have to do.
WoH is the gold standard of healing spells, hands down. Aside from that, you can do just fine with the other 5 energy skills out there. I have heal party for those sepecial times when 1/2 or more of my party needs a good heal.
One mistake monks make is healing every little scratch that their party memebers get. If a party member's health gets down 10-15%, (50-75hp on a guy with 500hp total health) then throw a heal at them, if it's more, use WoH. Anything less is a waste of energy IMHO.
I don't mind people shouting "Heal" at me IF their health is less than50% and everyone else is in good shape. Why? because it's a reasonable request.
When someone with 75% health shouts "heal" at me, I shout back "KILL." Then I let them drop to 25% before I help 'em out (the first time they do it). Why? because it's not a reasonable request, and the knotheads who do this are the ones that expect their own personal physician at the expense of the rest of the party. They are also the ones who yell at the Monk when things go bad. To all those guilty of this BE WARNED: Continued behavior of this nature while I'm monking for your party will be hazardous to your health and may result in death.
I say this a healing monk and Oh MAN do I love when the second monk goes Boon/Prot! I never have energy problems, because there's not a lot of healing that I have to do.
WoH is the gold standard of healing spells, hands down. Aside from that, you can do just fine with the other 5 energy skills out there. I have heal party for those sepecial times when 1/2 or more of my party needs a good heal.
One mistake monks make is healing every little scratch that their party memebers get. If a party member's health gets down 10-15%, (50-75hp on a guy with 500hp total health) then throw a heal at them, if it's more, use WoH. Anything less is a waste of energy IMHO.
I don't mind people shouting "Heal" at me IF their health is less than50% and everyone else is in good shape. Why? because it's a reasonable request.
When someone with 75% health shouts "heal" at me, I shout back "KILL." Then I let them drop to 25% before I help 'em out (the first time they do it). Why? because it's not a reasonable request, and the knotheads who do this are the ones that expect their own personal physician at the expense of the rest of the party. They are also the ones who yell at the Monk when things go bad. To all those guilty of this BE WARNED: Continued behavior of this nature while I'm monking for your party will be hazardous to your health and may result in death.
Makkert
I find it amusing that the OP complains about spamming of Heal Party by pug monks, while he has a tendency to spam his words.
spam spam spam, it's a wonderfull thing.
as for pugging, good management goes a long way. but many don't have the patience for it.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ide-id1571.php
spam spam spam, it's a wonderfull thing.
as for pugging, good management goes a long way. but many don't have the patience for it.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ide-id1571.php
Hyper Cutter
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Originally Posted by Warrior1986
My question is why do most monks in PuGs (I'd say at least 75-80%) think they are the greatest thing since slicest bread?
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cosyfiep
yes, I do use heal party....why? you are talking PUG here----the tank runs out wayyyy tooo far for me to get to before he will die----heal party will heal him so that I can get to him and do the others. (or in the ring of fire where they get banished to the lava.....dont want to run in there)
PUGs are not known for their ability to work together since most of the time they have not. When your party is running 4 different ways sometimes the ONLY way to heal them all is the heal party.
flame me all you want.....it does have its uses.
And most PUGs also dont know that you wont heal them until they reach a certain point----unless they have played monk before, they dont understand these things.
PUGs are not known for their ability to work together since most of the time they have not. When your party is running 4 different ways sometimes the ONLY way to heal them all is the heal party.
flame me all you want.....it does have its uses.
And most PUGs also dont know that you wont heal them until they reach a certain point----unless they have played monk before, they dont understand these things.
Effigy
Heal Party is a good skill for PvE monks, as long as it's used wisely. Anytime 3 or more players are hurt enough to warrant a single-target heal, HP allows you to get them all at the same time while maintaining efficiency. It can also be helpful for healing players who are out of range (ex: warriors attacking an Ether Seal in the fire island missions).
Healing Breeze, on the other hand, is not a good skill for primary monks. A couple people have already explained this well so I won't get into it. I won't even get started on monks with Mending...
Healing Breeze, on the other hand, is not a good skill for primary monks. A couple people have already explained this well so I won't get into it. I won't even get started on monks with Mending...
Narutoscryed
some folks might totally bag me for this.. but im a loyal fan of boon prot for both factions and prophecies missions..
and in my opinion its still almost just as effective post nerf to divine boon.
I have seen the monks the opp is talking about. and i actually had one bag on me in a mish and say that i was a n00b for taking a nerfed build.
the mission was napui quarter and with all the spiking and enchant removal near the end the monk started spamming his energy at around 3..
i then spammed my energy witch thanks to clever use of recal is full..
I was able to keep the mele spike free and the caster fully healed. for a long time.
At the end of that mission the whole party gave me props for my healing and they all bagged the other monk for being an idiot and being totally usless from almost the start.
i guess the key is learning to play your build right.
and in my opinion its still almost just as effective post nerf to divine boon.
I have seen the monks the opp is talking about. and i actually had one bag on me in a mish and say that i was a n00b for taking a nerfed build.
the mission was napui quarter and with all the spiking and enchant removal near the end the monk started spamming his energy at around 3..
i then spammed my energy witch thanks to clever use of recal is full..
I was able to keep the mele spike free and the caster fully healed. for a long time.
At the end of that mission the whole party gave me props for my healing and they all bagged the other monk for being an idiot and being totally usless from almost the start.
i guess the key is learning to play your build right.
Thallandor
16+1 Healing with 13 Divine and 5en Heals FTW.
Eragon Dragonslayer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cosyfiep
yes, I do use heal party....why? you are talking PUG here----the tank runs out wayyyy tooo far for me to get to before he will die----heal party will heal him so that I can get to him and do the others. (or in the ring of fire where they get banished to the lava.....dont want to run in there)
PUGs are not known for their ability to work together since most of the time they have not. When your party is running 4 different ways sometimes the ONLY way to heal them all is the heal party. flame me all you want.....it does have its uses. And most PUGs also dont know that you wont heal them until they reach a certain point----unless they have played monk before, they dont understand these things. |
@Makkert What do u mean i have a tendecy to spam my words?
@Effigy Yes thats completely reasonable, and i did remember this one monk that used mending on the 2 warriors and me and him...and all he did for the rest of the mish was follow along...
lmiles
What really grates on my nerves is Idiot Monks who repeatidly spam Heal Area this is just stupid especially when its in the underworld because whats the point in us fighting if our own monks are healing the enemy
Im not a monk myself I have a ranger character a necro character and a ritualist character and one of the biggest problems is when your monks are spamming Heal area meanwhile the enemy are ganging up on you and you get killed, then you point out that you and the rest of the team are down and the stupid monks decide that theyre not going to rez you thinking they can run off and take the whole underworld by themselves ahhhhhh
theyre are some amazingly good monks on this forum and on the game who I owe alot to.
so thanks to the guys that have helped
Im not a monk myself I have a ranger character a necro character and a ritualist character and one of the biggest problems is when your monks are spamming Heal area meanwhile the enemy are ganging up on you and you get killed, then you point out that you and the rest of the team are down and the stupid monks decide that theyre not going to rez you thinking they can run off and take the whole underworld by themselves ahhhhhh theyre are some amazingly good monks on this forum and on the game who I owe alot to. so thanks to the guys that have helped
Zui
Welcome to PvE PUGs. 99.99% of the players suck, badly, but think they're amazingly good and know everything. This is why some of us refuse to PUG in PvE unless we have to, and instead opt for henchmen, friends, or guildies.
bele
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
My personally favorite which happened today:
Pug monk in Imperial Sanctum said "I'll try to keep mending on Togo and Mhenlo so they don't die." *sigh* |
I suposse he/she was kidding
torquemada
Funny thing, you finally get a monk in a PUG, and he stinks to high heaven. Few minutes into the fray and he's pinging low energy. And to think that you had to sit in an outpost for half an hour to even get one in the first place.
I would not reply to these kind of posts anyway if I didn't get 2 absolutely horrid monks (not 55, I checked) in sequence few days ago in Elona's Reach.
I would not reply to these kind of posts anyway if I didn't get 2 absolutely horrid monks (not 55, I checked) in sequence few days ago in Elona's Reach.