PuG Monks driving me INSANE!
luauelveneno
so is healparty and healing breeze bad or not? i use them both whenever its really needed. i never had an complaint about my healing with it besides one time someone said: "healing breeze is for noobmonks and you are one for sure cuz u have healingbreeze"
Tachyon
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Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice
I don't know if you're kidding or not
 But you do let your pug know before you start that you're Smite right? hope soNaaaa you gotta be kidding |
Xeeron
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Originally Posted by luauelveneno
so is healparty and healing breeze bad or not?
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In contrast Heal Party does have its valid uses in PUGs. The problem with this skill is that it is so easy to use it the wrong way, so people will usually take you for a bad monk if they see you using it and you have to prove to them that you know what you are doing.
- Xeeron
Jessyi
All I know is that when I get a compliment for being a good monk, it's easy to be modest. Kind of like if someone were to come up to you and praise your excellent breathing. But that's PvE for you. Craptacular builds run on a ranger, or a warrior, or an elementalist (or nearly any other class) don't get noticed. Sure, you can't interrupt a damn thing, you output no damage, or you finish a battle with 70% exhaustion, but who cares? The enemies died...eventually, right? Now just wait 3 minutes to recover so you can spam cast echo meteor shower and ob flame again. Unfortunately, while the rest of the group is taking forever and a boatload of resources to complete a few basic tasks (ie. killing monster mobs), your monk has got to work like a dog to try and keep your dumb asses alive long enough to finish your criminally incompetent work. If the monk is a failure, then the group fails. The monk could be superior to the rest of the group however and the group would still fail. Of course, the downside of ignorance and stupidity is that the monk almost always still gets blamed an account of those blaming him/her/it probably don't know thier ass from a hole in the ground, nevermind where the actual points of failure in a group were.
You know what? On second thought, I'll take that compliment.
-Jessyi
You know what? On second thought, I'll take that compliment.
-Jessyi
Gun Pierson
You got more than a point there Jessyi.
FalconDance
Breeze is good for some applications, yes. For instance, I was just monking for a team in the Wilds. Breeze was handy to counter poison while Mend Ailment was recharging. I want to thank most of them for doing a good job at their varied professions (warrior, nec and monk). But the mesmer........arrrrg!
What makes a decent monk want to scream?!? When one player - usually a squishie - obsesses on something ingame and rushes off where warriors fear to tread! We were doing mission & bonus, and the mes kept seeing the Blade runnning so thought we were supposed to magically catch them and kill for the bonus. Never mind that we tried to tell her different. Never mind that she ran into the heaviest concentration of centaurs and promptly aggro'd several groups, thus killing half the team.
She got two resurrects, one from the other monk and one from me (after everyone said to leave her dead). I told her that was her last "get out of stupid free" card. She kept screaming "there they are! Did you see them?" (to which my answer was "no, I've been too busy healing YOU") and wouldn't listen regarding the bonus until *after* we'd finished the mission and I was trying to explain it to the necro so she could go back and finish it later.
Sometimes it ain't the monk being a noob, guys.
What makes a decent monk want to scream?!? When one player - usually a squishie - obsesses on something ingame and rushes off where warriors fear to tread! We were doing mission & bonus, and the mes kept seeing the Blade runnning so thought we were supposed to magically catch them and kill for the bonus. Never mind that we tried to tell her different. Never mind that she ran into the heaviest concentration of centaurs and promptly aggro'd several groups, thus killing half the team.
She got two resurrects, one from the other monk and one from me (after everyone said to leave her dead). I told her that was her last "get out of stupid free" card. She kept screaming "there they are! Did you see them?" (to which my answer was "no, I've been too busy healing YOU") and wouldn't listen regarding the bonus until *after* we'd finished the mission and I was trying to explain it to the necro so she could go back and finish it later.
Sometimes it ain't the monk being a noob, guys.
Kha
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Originally Posted by Xeeron
While it is hard to say a skill is outright bad (it usually depends on the situation), there is almost nothing that can defend using healing breeze as a PUG monk unless you are deliberatly trying to make the game more challenging.
In contrast Heal Party does have its valid uses in PUGs. The problem with this skill is that it is so easy to use it the wrong way, so people will usually take you for a bad monk if they see you using it and you have to prove to them that you know what you are doing. - Xeeron |
Spamming any high energy cost spell that doesn't need to be used so much will obviously make the game more challenging. Healing Breeze is a great spell, but not enough people understand when to use it and who to use it on. Too many people see a party member get a slight bit of health gone and immediately they are like "Oh no, Healing Breeze to the rescue!" Same with people that use Heal Party when only 1 person is taking damage.
There is no skill that is ever bad in your skillbar as long as you know how to use it effectively in your build.
FrogDevourer
My momma always said, "PuGs are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get." You never know if your group is composed of kamikaze rambo assassins with Shing Jea armor (and believe me it's quite an impressive show) or smart people with decent builds and skills. Sometimes you fail a very easy mission because a couple of morons are not watching their radar or because they don't know their basics (*cough* monk rebirthing in combat *cough*), and sometimes you master the Imperial Sanctuum with 6 players (one err7 and ragequit on first death) and only one monk, or you butcher Argo and the Kraken with 5 players and no serious interrupter. But to be honest, if one could recruit a real nuker henchman and MM/SS henchmen, we'd miss a lot of fun in PuGs. Unfortunately that's probably what will happen with Heroes who are basically much more powerful and efficient than the average pick-up player.
For the records, this topic has been discussed to death in many other threads, including off-topic discussions, Healing Breeze and Heal Party, French hate and all.
For the records, this topic has been discussed to death in many other threads, including off-topic discussions, Healing Breeze and Heal Party, French hate and all.
saphir
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Originally Posted by Jessyi
Sure, you can't interrupt a damn thing, you output no damage, or you finish a battle with 70% exhaustion, but who cares? The enemies died...eventually, right?
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Funny thing is I most often get compliments as a monk after such spectacular failures of any coherent teamwork in a group. You have your ele spamming meteor showers on moving mobs and thus pounding the empty dirt into dust, warriors repeated attacking against SoJ or w/ SS hexes, the other monk running off to a safe distance to watch thinking we're all dead, necros standing in a pack of mobs trying to spam their 2 sec spells thru maelstrom. And finally after keeping everyone alive after 5 minutes of this madness, the last enemy dies.
I don't monk for compliments, nor gold (I would never take gold or any reward for monking), nor ego. I monk because it's a challenge I enjoy, and what's the most challenging thing in GW? Pugs of course! Their behavior is never the same, always different, and always.. um, unique.
I don't get easily frustrated or angry. but it does start becoming a waste of time when every little battle takes 5 minutes or more
the_jos
Since I am member of a small guild ( 8 members, half europe / half US ) I'm PuG monking most of the time.
And PuG any-other-char also.
My experience is that you can tell a whether or not a (Pu) group will be successfull from the first encounters with enemies.
When things go bad then, they will get worse later.
As stated before by others, it's the group that fails, not one of the players.
When I monk and don't trust the group, I will ask to bring at least one evasive and one self heal skill.
When people complain, I'll ask them if the other 6 skills are worth something when they are dead.
I cannot take care of all when under heavy pressure (should have taken Heal Party...).
And a monk can get, as any player, dc or otherwise drop ( "i have to go to bed now...", leaves )
I've done a large part of the Ring of Fire mission without healers (they left), with only one Rit (Lord) in the team.
Lucky all had some form of self heal, so we could continue.
So I do understand the complains about the monk spamming skills and having no energy, but the fact that the mission fails because of that gives me the impression that the whole group depended on the monk too much.
Early in the game, most professions get some form of self heal skill, so why not take those? Same with evasive. Condition removal could be usefull when you enter a area with conditions that ruin your build (like blind on a W).
So if you know the condition will render you useless, why not take a remove skill? Since W's don't have one themself, take one from the second profession.
If that's not possible, ask monk to remove. Also usefull when you get condition twice and monk's skill is still recharging.
And PuG any-other-char also.
My experience is that you can tell a whether or not a (Pu) group will be successfull from the first encounters with enemies.
When things go bad then, they will get worse later.
As stated before by others, it's the group that fails, not one of the players.
When I monk and don't trust the group, I will ask to bring at least one evasive and one self heal skill.
When people complain, I'll ask them if the other 6 skills are worth something when they are dead.
I cannot take care of all when under heavy pressure (should have taken Heal Party...).
And a monk can get, as any player, dc or otherwise drop ( "i have to go to bed now...", leaves )
I've done a large part of the Ring of Fire mission without healers (they left), with only one Rit (Lord) in the team.
Lucky all had some form of self heal, so we could continue.
So I do understand the complains about the monk spamming skills and having no energy, but the fact that the mission fails because of that gives me the impression that the whole group depended on the monk too much.
Early in the game, most professions get some form of self heal skill, so why not take those? Same with evasive. Condition removal could be usefull when you enter a area with conditions that ruin your build (like blind on a W).
So if you know the condition will render you useless, why not take a remove skill? Since W's don't have one themself, take one from the second profession.
If that's not possible, ask monk to remove. Also usefull when you get condition twice and monk's skill is still recharging.
EPO Bot
My E/Rit had a spirit of preservation as a pocket monk and it sometimes heals more then the real healers
Mmmm...Pocket monk...Guess that name is taken already right?
Mmmm...Pocket monk...Guess that name is taken already right?
luinks
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Originally Posted by saphir
I don't monk for compliments, nor gold (I would never take gold or any reward for monking), nor ego. I monk because it's a challenge I enjoy, and what's the most challenging thing in GW? Pugs of course! Their behavior is never the same, always different, and always.. um, unique.
I don't get easily frustrated or angry. but it does start becoming a waste of time when every little battle takes 5 minutes or more |
Merlin Munk
I Love playing Monk in PUG, Its a FUN challenge. The thing I dont like is too get flamed for going smite from time too time. But that will all change now when heroes comes in play with nightfall. Finally I can do smite without people nagging "Can u heal", "pls switch too heal" or "Omg kick him we need healers". Funny thing is, If I get kicked, I just switch too heal and join another team just too get even! But not before whisp my former leader about it. :-D
Yes, I am mean
But only when people treat me bad
Merlin munk
"I LOVE THUNDER HEAD KEEP"
Yes, I am mean
But only when people treat me bad
Merlin munk
"I LOVE THUNDER HEAD KEEP"
Age
I got this by someone from GWOnline names to be withheld.
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You think seven people is a lot? The number of people I've griefed is probably in the thousands. I'm sure they all stopped playing Guild Wars, and to this day remember the time that monk released eight bone fiends to slaughter them. Yes, my monk is extremely evil, and is the only character I have that griefs. It's just in her nature, I'm simply being in-character. Her only weapon sets are a Bone Staff, a Poisonous Cleaver of Enchanting/Bleached Skull, and a black Flute. Her 15k armor is full black as well, except for the dark crimson stains from her allies' blood. This is a story that was written about one of the terrible things my monk does for fun. Fort Ranik is her outpost of choice. At any rate, my actions do not attribute to the attitude displayed by the OP. A PuG monk being terrible, and a PuG monk purposely slaughtering your entire team and then laughing at you for it, are two completely different things. It's one thing to think a PuG monk is bad at healing, it's another to think they want to kill you. And my attitude isn't negative. My monk enjoys her work quite a bit. |
achilles ankle
Well dont fret ppl as soon as nightfall comes out you and a friend can just head off and beat the game on ur own. 3 heroes each, able to equip the best weps u can give them and able to use ANY skill for their proffesion you have ever unlocked....i say who the hell needs pugs. just a waste of time and im not even gonna talk about pug monks, not the ones who spam high energy spells...just trying to get a pug monk with a DECENT attitude is why my hero monk>any pug monk.
achilles ankle
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Originally Posted by Jessyi
All I know is that when I get a compliment for being a good monk, it's easy to be modest. Kind of like if someone were to come up to you and praise your excellent breathing. But that's PvE for you. Craptacular builds run on a ranger, or a warrior, or an elementalist (or nearly any other class) don't get noticed. Sure, you can't interrupt a damn thing, you output no damage, or you finish a battle with 70% exhaustion, but who cares? The enemies died...eventually, right? Now just wait 3 minutes to recover so you can spam cast echo meteor shower and ob flame again. Unfortunately, while the rest of the group is taking forever and a boatload of resources to complete a few basic tasks (ie. killing monster mobs), your monk has got to work like a dog to try and keep your dumb asses alive long enough to finish your criminally incompetent work. If the monk is a failure, then the group fails. The monk could be superior to the rest of the group however and the group would still fail. Of course, the downside of ignorance and stupidity is that the monk almost always still gets blamed an account of those blaming him/her/it probably don't know thier ass from a hole in the ground, nevermind where the actual points of failure in a group were.
You know what? On second thought, I'll take that compliment. -Jessyi |
stereotypical pug monk, thinks they can talk down/about any other class because they "have the power" to do what ever they want. this is why im glad pugs are gonna be a thing of the past THANK GOD
and on a side note my ele barely has to deal with insane exhaustion so idk u must get horrible ele's
xiao1985
welcome to gw....
good monks (in fact, good players) exist in the ratio of 1:10...
sooner or later you will bagg out:
warrior aggro'ing as soon as you finished 1mob (ie needs regen)
ele tanking
ranger pulling (ok, not so much of a bad thing, but i'd much prefer a tank pulling)
monk smiting
warrior doing nothing (not even tanking)
necro doing BR/BiP when you are on near en (ok again, not so much of a crime, you know they are good intentioned....)
good monks (in fact, good players) exist in the ratio of 1:10...
sooner or later you will bagg out:
warrior aggro'ing as soon as you finished 1mob (ie needs regen)
ele tanking
ranger pulling (ok, not so much of a bad thing, but i'd much prefer a tank pulling)
monk smiting
warrior doing nothing (not even tanking)
necro doing BR/BiP when you are on near en (ok again, not so much of a crime, you know they are good intentioned....)
cataphract
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Originally Posted by Braggi
I know the thread. The trouble is, the worse the PUG, the more unwanted and often false "advice" or requests the monk gets - and more abuse. A mediocre ranger or caster can hide in the crowd. A monk can only look as good as his group lets him, and so a mediocre monk in a mediocre PUG will look bad when things go wrong.
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torquemada
Why are you healing pets? If they get blackout from pet dying, I don't think it's really your fault.
cataphract
I don't heal pets. The only pet I did heal was a beastmaster's pet. The ranger stated that he was a BM and that his pet would be doing the attacking. He did have Predator's Pounce which heals the pet and he did heal him with Comfort Animal, but sometimes that wasn't enough. Because the pet was actually useful I decided to heal him. 
bigwig
Most people who bring their pet don't really expect or want you to heal their pets. If he dies i comfort animal him and go.
Just stop pugging all together, monks are not the problem, pugs are.
Just stop pugging all together, monks are not the problem, pugs are.
saphir
i only heal pets if i have extra energy, no one is immediately in danger or dying, the party is not under heavy pressure, or if the pet is doing a better job tanking than the tanks.
if a pet owner complains, i tell them that if they like, i can spend my skills and energy keeping your pet alive at the expense of your health if you so prefer. it's either you or your pet. this is generally in fow/uw
of course then there's the opposite end of the spectrum of a b/p group where we had a ranger complaining that no one healed their pets, and that despite defeating the purpose of pets in a b/p group, he was going to heal his pet...
if a pet owner complains, i tell them that if they like, i can spend my skills and energy keeping your pet alive at the expense of your health if you so prefer. it's either you or your pet. this is generally in fow/uw
of course then there's the opposite end of the spectrum of a b/p group where we had a ranger complaining that no one healed their pets, and that despite defeating the purpose of pets in a b/p group, he was going to heal his pet...
Kook~NBK~
Bad (healing) Monk: Party members die through no fault of their own.
Good (healing) Monk: Party Members stay alive and make it through mission OK. *UNLESS there are other members of the party with less-than-stellar tactical moves that gets themselves & others killed & no amount of healing is gonna stop it.*
*Translation: Unless there are 1 or more morons in the party who over aggro the mobs & under achieve in the damage dealing department.
Good (healing) Monk: Party Members stay alive and make it through mission OK. *UNLESS there are other members of the party with less-than-stellar tactical moves that gets themselves & others killed & no amount of healing is gonna stop it.*
*Translation: Unless there are 1 or more morons in the party who over aggro the mobs & under achieve in the damage dealing department.
Brustow
I think the problem here is just a reflection of society. Everyone has to bitch and moan about something and everyone has an opinion on how something should be handled. People start fighting and then nothing gets done (in this case Quests/Missions in GW). You put a handful of strangers into a room, are they going to be an extremely effective team? Probably not. It really depends on the level of maturity of the individuals to compromise and work together.
Guild Wars is a VERY easy game to play. What makes this game difficult is that a lot of people just can't work together as a team. If each individual of a team is helpful, compromising, mature, etc. then it really doesn't matter what class you are, what builds you have, because you already have a team that can beat any PVE area in GW.
Guild Wars is a VERY easy game to play. What makes this game difficult is that a lot of people just can't work together as a team. If each individual of a team is helpful, compromising, mature, etc. then it really doesn't matter what class you are, what builds you have, because you already have a team that can beat any PVE area in GW.
cataphract
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Originally Posted by bigwig
Most people who bring their pet don't really expect or want you to heal their pets. If he dies i comfort animal him and go.
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When your pet dies you have a 10 second blackout of skills. In those 10 seconds you are as useful as a jealous ex. Furthermore, you're losing (in most cases) 2 skill slots on the pet: charm and comfort. If you're not a beastmaster comfort can't heal the pet enough. On top of that - the pet does not do it's max damage because of your low or none beastmestery. You can argue bringing a pet that constantly dies to help the MM make minions like a good deal of ranger have. But that's even less smart. One minion for a 10 sec blackout and 2 interrupts less? Two interrupts that could have negated some nasty skill like Silver Armor, Earthquake, etc... You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that pets on rangers that are not beastmasters do more harm to the team.
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Originally Posted by saphir
i only heal pets if i have extra energy, no one is immediately in danger or dying, the party is not under heavy pressure, or if the pet is doing a better job tanking than the tanks.
if a pet owner complains, i tell them that if they like, i can spend my skills and energy keeping your pet alive at the expense of your health if you so prefer. it's either you or your pet. this is generally in fow/uw of course then there's the opposite end of the spectrum of a b/p group where we had a ranger complaining that no one healed their pets, and that despite defeating the purpose of pets in a b/p group, he was going to heal his pet... |
Average scenario: ranger luers, pet rushes in. Mobs start pwning the pet who is 2x radars away. The other monk runs in after the pet. Healing Breeze. Rest of the party follows monk into Fire Storm, SS, Maelstrom, (insert a bitch AoE here). I had one PuG ball up on a bridge in RoF mission. Needless to say the Imps pwned the pet in a second then proceeded to pwn the balled up people in a matter of seconds. Me being monk and the only survivor of this (I stood out of the Imp aggro but in range to heal the team) got me a "well deserved" flame-fest. Next time I'm going down with the ship.
Not.
Xenrath
I'm starting to think these kinds of threads should be locked on sight. They don't achieve anything (as they keep cropping up many months later, obviously nothing changed).
I think there should be a template for it:
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Hi! I'd like to complain about warriors/monks/eles/assassins/mesmers/other* in PUGS! They make me so mad and 75%/85%/95% of them suck! They have no idea how to play and they got me killed by using Frenzy/Mending/Firestorm/Other*.
Also I hate how they aggro/tank/heal/die/moan/do nothing/other*. They stink because they are not as good as me/not the worlds best players. I will now play only with henchies/friends/guildies/myself.
(* please specify)
----
Well good news, Heroes coming soon so you can all play with them and leave what's left of the "multiplayer" aspect of PvE to the ones who still think it's a multiplayer game (which has good and bad moments)
I think there should be a template for it:
----
Hi! I'd like to complain about warriors/monks/eles/assassins/mesmers/other* in PUGS! They make me so mad and 75%/85%/95% of them suck! They have no idea how to play and they got me killed by using Frenzy/Mending/Firestorm/Other*.
Also I hate how they aggro/tank/heal/die/moan/do nothing/other*. They stink because they are not as good as me/not the worlds best players. I will now play only with henchies/friends/guildies/myself.
(* please specify)
----
Well good news, Heroes coming soon so you can all play with them and leave what's left of the "multiplayer" aspect of PvE to the ones who still think it's a multiplayer game (which has good and bad moments)
technician
Pretty much most of the time I do feel like i'm solo monking for my teams , when I run into those monks who use Heal Party to heal one person then spam "My Energy is 2/40!!" 500 times or have a full skill bar that costs 10-15 en per skill , then theres monks who bring smite skills like bane and holy strike as if a monks supposed to be focusing on damage but hey I figure it's just more of a challenge for me.
bigwig
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Originally Posted by cataphract
IMHO, that's not very.. how can I say it.. smart.
When your pet dies you have a 10 second blackout of skills. In those 10 seconds you are as useful as a jealous ex. Furthermore, you're losing (in most cases) 2 skill slots on the pet: charm and comfort. If you're not a beastmaster comfort can't heal the pet enough. On top of that - the pet does not do it's max damage because of your low or none beastmestery. You can argue bringing a pet that constantly dies to help the MM make minions like a good deal of ranger have. But that's even less smart. One minion for a 10 sec blackout and 2 interrupts less? Two interrupts that could have negated some nasty skill like Silver Armor, Earthquake, etc... You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that pets on rangers that are not beastmasters do more harm to the team. |
who said i had no attributes in beast mastery?
Most people who bring their pet don't really expect or want you to heal their pets. If he dies i comfort animal him and go.
cataphract
I give the smeg up. Keep bringing your useless pets. See if I care anymore. Because I don't. Not anymore. kthx
Good thing you're not a moderator. ggnore
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Originally Posted by Xenrath
I'm starting to think these kinds of threads should be locked on sight. They don't achieve anything (as they keep cropping up many months later, obviously nothing changed).
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CorstedPirate
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Originally Posted by Xenrath
I'm starting to think these kinds of threads should be locked on sight. They don't achieve anything (as they keep cropping up many months later, obviously nothing changed).
I think there should be a template for it: ---- Hi! I'd like to complain about warriors/monks/eles/assassins/mesmers/other* in PUGS! They make me so mad and 75%/85%/95% of them suck! They have no idea how to play and they got me killed by using Frenzy/Mending/Firestorm/Other*. Also I hate how they aggro/tank/heal/die/moan/do nothing/other*. They stink because they are not as good as me/not the worlds best players. I will now play only with henchies/friends/guildies/myself. (* please specify) ---- Well good news, Heroes coming soon so you can all play with them and leave what's left of the "multiplayer" aspect of PvE to the ones who still think it's a multiplayer game (which has good and bad moments) |
Xeeron
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Originally Posted by Kha
Um, what are you talking about? Using Healing Breeze doesn't make the game more challenging. There's nothing wrong with it. The problem is monks that think just spamming Healing Breeze and Heal Party as the only heal is a correct option. It's a waste of energy to do that, counterproductive, and just downright stupid.
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Healing Breeze: 8x2x10 + 35 = 195 health
2 Orisons: 2x60 + 2*35 = 190 health
Yes that is right, you get all the downsides of HB:
*It is an enchantment
*It does not heal instantly (!!)
*It causes overheal
for a mere 5 health more compared to orison. Now, as with all skills, there will be special circumstances when that is ok, but in your normal PUG, there is no justification to use HB over orison and that does not even take into account that you could use much better skills like WoH or Ethereal Light. The problem is NOT ONLY the spamming of HB.
In your normal PuG, HB is a waste.
- Xeeron
Trvth Jvstice
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Originally Posted by Xeeron
Hmmm, I am sure that HB has been discussed here before, but let me just repeat it here quickly, to stop people from getting the impression that it is a good skill. Take an average monk with 11+1 healing, 10+1 divine (the rest being in inspiration for example). How much do you heal with 10 energy for healing breeze vs 2x5 energy for 2 orisons?
Healing Breeze: 8x2x10 + 35 = 195 health 2 Orisons: 2x60 + 2*35 = 190 health Yes that is right, you get all the downsides of HB: *It is an enchantment *It does not heal instantly (!!) *It causes overheal for a mere 5 health more compared to orison. Now, as with all skills, there will be special circumstances when that is ok, but in your normal PUG, there is no justification to use HB over orison and that does not even take into account that you could use much better skills like WoH or Ethereal Light. The problem is NOT ONLY the spamming of HB. In your normal PuG, HB is a waste. - Xeeron |
EDIT: Also, it would take at least 4 seconds to cast 2 orisons. Sure, you wouldn't use only breeze on someone taking heavy dmg, but it's a nice skill to "cast-and-forget" on someone to keep their health at an acceptable lvl while they're taking steady light to moderate dmg.
Also, I'm pretty sure the "average" monk has more than 11+1 in healing and 10+1 in d.favor. I use 16 in heal and 13 in d. favor.
FalconDance
Xeeron, you fail to see that in some instances, Breeze is *very* handy.
But hey, if some people are so close-minded that all they can see is one skill set for the whole game <<shrugs>>.
But hey, if some people are so close-minded that all they can see is one skill set for the whole game <<shrugs>>.
Divinus Stella
Well, 2 orisons takes 2 seconds to cast, healing breeze only 1 second, its not a great heal, but i would rather have the monks use healing breeze on me than spend his 10 energy on a fireball or ressing his pet.
saphir
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Originally Posted by Xeeron
In your normal PuG, HB is a waste.
- Xeeron |
I find in most groups from the ascalon to the desert missions/quests, orison may suffice, especially if you have lower levels who do not have as much hp as a level 20 does. In these places, it's fairly easy to monk, with plenty of downtime between heals even in the midst of a large fight. The mobs just don't do that much damage that quickly.
In higher level areas where the mobs hit hard and fast, and aoe spike damage is constantly a threat, you simply don't have time to be casting 2 orisons to fix someone up. In that time that you spent casting and waiting for the recharge, someone else in your party may be dead from a spike. This is especially true from heavy high damage pressure, or over aggro (another common occurrence in pugs). When a pug happens to aggro 2 abyssmal groups + 1/2 night crawlers and a few shadow eles right before the first quest building - and beileve I've seen it many times, your skills are barely recharging fast enough to keep all the heals going. Recharge is usually more of a problem than energy then.. even w/ a 20/20 focus.
HB is especially good to be used on someone who may have taken a spike around 50% hp and have retreated out of aggro temporarily and is no longer under attack. In high level areas, there simply isn't the time to be wasting 2 orisons on him over 4 seconds when in the next second your monk may be spiked and the necro is getting pummelled by the abyssmal.
It's like those monks who cast Heal Party in a UW pug. By the time they finish the cast, half the party is dead. (assuming no bonder of course)
w00t!
Interesting that this thread has devolved from PUG Monks driving people insane to whether Healing Breeze is either great, or else the mark of a bad monk.
I have a monk who just topped 3 million experience, and none of that through solo farming, so I have had a chance to be both a bad and a good monk.
Point is, the spells are pretty much a secondary consideration when deciding whether a monk is good or not. Someone earlier mentioned that it was about timing, finess, et cetera. I agree completely; it's about how you play the character, not what skills you bring.
Most monks know that whether they'll be successful is dependant on both their skill, and the skill of the party. A good monk can't save a bad party, and a good party often can't survive with a bad monk.
The formula for success is farily easy; take three 5 point healing spells of your choice, one big bang healing spell, heal party, and whatever else you want. Cast those 5 point healing spells all day long, and if people don't over-aggro, you'll never run yourself out of energy.
Energy management spells aren't needed in PvE, though they're a must in PvP. When necros ask me if they should bring Blood is Power, I usually tell them that if I need that spell cast on me, we're most likely doomed anyway.
Damage negation for yourself usually isn't necessary either. I don't attack, so I rarely draw aggro. When I do, I just run a pick play with another character to clear the aggro. Sprint makes this easier, but usually isn't necessary.
So straight cheap healing, cast only when needed, and you're golden. Switch your build to RC prot, active prot, boon, boon / bond, blessed light, or whatever if you're bored. But none of those are a good substitute for the simple formula of 5 point heals cast judiciously.
I have a monk who just topped 3 million experience, and none of that through solo farming, so I have had a chance to be both a bad and a good monk.
Point is, the spells are pretty much a secondary consideration when deciding whether a monk is good or not. Someone earlier mentioned that it was about timing, finess, et cetera. I agree completely; it's about how you play the character, not what skills you bring.
Most monks know that whether they'll be successful is dependant on both their skill, and the skill of the party. A good monk can't save a bad party, and a good party often can't survive with a bad monk.
The formula for success is farily easy; take three 5 point healing spells of your choice, one big bang healing spell, heal party, and whatever else you want. Cast those 5 point healing spells all day long, and if people don't over-aggro, you'll never run yourself out of energy.
Energy management spells aren't needed in PvE, though they're a must in PvP. When necros ask me if they should bring Blood is Power, I usually tell them that if I need that spell cast on me, we're most likely doomed anyway.
Damage negation for yourself usually isn't necessary either. I don't attack, so I rarely draw aggro. When I do, I just run a pick play with another character to clear the aggro. Sprint makes this easier, but usually isn't necessary.
So straight cheap healing, cast only when needed, and you're golden. Switch your build to RC prot, active prot, boon, boon / bond, blessed light, or whatever if you're bored. But none of those are a good substitute for the simple formula of 5 point heals cast judiciously.
Xeeron
God, why am I even having this discussion, I should care less about what other people use in their skill bar... anyway:
Yes for about 35 health, depending on your divine favor attribute...
It would, but if you need to heal faster, there are 7 other skills on your skill bar.
Agreed, it is a spell for lazy people. I'd rather take a monk with good spells over a lazy monk though.
You fail at knowing my mind better than I do. Breeze is indeed very handy and I see that ... for 55 farming. But we are talking about PuGs.
If anything hits a target hard and fast, HB is the worst skill you could use. You need WoH or go protection.
If you have time and energy to heal someone who does not have aggro at the moment, the situation is not critical in the least, any spell would do.
How many direct heals do you bring? 1? There should be a minimum of 3 direct heals in your bar, check what w00t! is saying above:
"three 5 point healing spells of your choice, one big bang healing spell".
Now by all means, keep using whatever skills you like, but someone asked here whether he should bring HB for PuGs and telling him that HB is great means setting up the next "all pug monks suck" thread.
- Xeeron
Quote:
| Wrong. It does heal instantly because of divine favor. |
Quote:
| Also, it would take at least 4 seconds to cast 2 orisons. |
Quote:
| Sure, you wouldn't use only breeze on someone taking heavy dmg, but it's a nice skill to "cast-and-forget" on someone to keep their health at an acceptable lvl while they're taking steady light to moderate dmg. |
Quote:
| Xeeron, you fail to see that in some instances, Breeze is *very* handy. |
Quote:
| In higher level areas where the mobs hit hard and fast, and aoe spike damage is constantly a threat, you simply don't have time to be casting 2 orisons to fix someone up. |
Quote:
| HB is especially good to be used on someone who may have taken a spike around 50% hp and have retreated out of aggro temporarily and is no longer under attack. |
Quote:
| Recharge is usually more of a problem than energy then.. even w/ a 20/20 focus. |
"three 5 point healing spells of your choice, one big bang healing spell".
Now by all means, keep using whatever skills you like, but someone asked here whether he should bring HB for PuGs and telling him that HB is great means setting up the next "all pug monks suck" thread.
- Xeeron
Dixie Lady
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Effigy
Heal
Healing Breeze, on the other hand, is not a good skill for primary monks.. I won't even get started on monks with Mending... |
The majority of missions I go on I am complimented by the end of the game and some ask me to join their guild and some add me to friend's list.
I have had a few times of trying to be the only monk or having another monk that must not be doing much, and bombed out. My pet peeve is when someone dies and yells 'REZ ME! REZ ME!' hey monk!!! what the heck are you doing??"
No matter that the rest of the party might die if I stopped to rez him. After everyone is safe, THEN I will rez.
Someone said a good monk will use henches. I always hench on quests but I don't attempt to do that on missions.
Don't be too quick to judge PUG monks. It might be that it's just a bad party. As far as ego, I don't think monks have that since they are the first to be blamed for failure. No one seems to blame the tanks for letting MOB past the front lines to attack the casters. When they break thru and attack me personally.. I run! I will do no good if I am dead.
And what about casters that insist on being on the front lines with the warriors? I have a 1 sec recharge skill (shorter range) I use for casters because they are supposed to be next to me.
Oh, but all good Monks are in a guild. Well, the endless guild/alliance chatter is distracting and can get annoying, TS is totally distracting and the long waits to form a group are just not worth it to me. I am now in a guild that seems to have only one active member. This has stopped all the pesky ingame guild invites and also allows me to AB.
Most of my PUG missions have been with some good people, all of whom are in guilds, and I have made some friends this way.
yesitsrob
Quote:
| I could not count the times that party members ask if I have mending, breeze and healing seed and seem very irritated that I don't carry those. |
I actually know of uses of healing breeze in the game, I am yet to come across a scenario in which Healing Breeze is a good skill on a primary monk. I'm sure there are some, but they are not in being a healer pick up.
I've not really read through this thread much, but people who are talking about the uses of HB and Mending on a monks bar really need to re-evaluate their bars.
Sli Ander
I don't have much use for mending, but healing breeze has its uses.
I'm only posting in this thread because I just got out of arborstone, and I recalled some energy management comments in here.
During this mission I did half the healing, the rest being picked up by an e/mo(she used earth magic, glyphs, and used res chant for mid battle res's)
I pinged my energy once the entire time.
Here's my point :I wasn't using any energy management skills like the ele. I brought 5 point heals, word of healing,and a condition removal. I tossed in a res, rof, healing breeze(oh my!), and heal party(gasp!).
Healing breeze is always on my bar.
To say that a monk shouldn't carry it is short sighted. To say that a monk should never run out of energy is also short sighted. Because there are always conditions(no pun intended) you can't control. AoE caused heal party to be used a couple times. Healing breeze fought multiple conditions and hexes. Once I hit a certain point spike heals kept them going till we could rest.(by rest I mean the run between groups of baddies)
Due to my secondary(which I never feel like changing) I've never used much energy management other than timing. I'm saddened to hear from the OP that people SPAM these skills. Due to energy cost they are not meant to be. But thats not to say they should be dismissed as useless. I've heard the horror stories about PUG monks(just like every other classes horror stories), and I'm glad to have learned from their mistakes. Let's hope that they do as well.
Off topic: My group was awesome. I think we missed masters by 2 seconds, though I'll have to check the req. They got us through on my first time, and this may account for why healing went so well: an intelligent, well run pug.(and we had a mesmer to so nya!
)
But thats just my two cents
I'm only posting in this thread because I just got out of arborstone, and I recalled some energy management comments in here.
During this mission I did half the healing, the rest being picked up by an e/mo(she used earth magic, glyphs, and used res chant for mid battle res's)
I pinged my energy once the entire time.
Here's my point :I wasn't using any energy management skills like the ele. I brought 5 point heals, word of healing,and a condition removal. I tossed in a res, rof, healing breeze(oh my!), and heal party(gasp!).
Healing breeze is always on my bar.
To say that a monk shouldn't carry it is short sighted. To say that a monk should never run out of energy is also short sighted. Because there are always conditions(no pun intended) you can't control. AoE caused heal party to be used a couple times. Healing breeze fought multiple conditions and hexes. Once I hit a certain point spike heals kept them going till we could rest.(by rest I mean the run between groups of baddies)
Due to my secondary(which I never feel like changing) I've never used much energy management other than timing. I'm saddened to hear from the OP that people SPAM these skills. Due to energy cost they are not meant to be. But thats not to say they should be dismissed as useless. I've heard the horror stories about PUG monks(just like every other classes horror stories), and I'm glad to have learned from their mistakes. Let's hope that they do as well.
Off topic: My group was awesome. I think we missed masters by 2 seconds, though I'll have to check the req. They got us through on my first time, and this may account for why healing went so well: an intelligent, well run pug.(and we had a mesmer to so nya!
)But thats just my two cents