"<insert player profession here> uses this skill, that's a noob skill, as declared by me, the best player in the universe, and so there forth players like that are bad players."
/rolleyes
Maybe it's just more of the boon prot mentality, but healing breaze is usually on a healer monk's skill bar, and it's usually to keep themselves healed. Because well, orisons does help, but not enough when you need to heal other people continuously. Ethereal Light is easily interrupted, but a good one also. Aside from that, I don't believe I've ever ran into a monk that ONLY spams breaze, I think that's a slight exageration. The only heal party spammers I've seen were E/Mo's.
PuG Monks driving me INSANE!
Matsumi
beta man
HB...it could be good
Once i rememeber in The Deep mission, as usual the pug formed go in kill and reach the end where we have to kill Kanaxie in the area where there is degens to every player. All is degening and monk is using Heal party to keep up with the degen as usual. But the quite a few have got so huge DP that heal party is unable to keep up with their degen, and orsion over heal them and prolly lasted 3 seconds before their health degen to the 20%.
I throw HB on them on those very low DP ones, particularly the lower health build battery necro
sometimes team can be so overwhelm by degens by the time u finish casting orsion on the last player, the first one that u cast orsion on is dead, but if u use HB on the first player to controll the degen while u use those +5 energy healing on ur other 3-4 players, u can keep ur first player alive.
HB wasn't noobish, only player does not know what it is use for and see it as a waste of slot and energy.
No skill on this game is useless, only players that does not know how to use it is. Anet would not create a spell that is useless, and if HB was so useless, it would have been updated to maybe 5 energy long ago.
don't flame me, its just my 2 cents
Once i rememeber in The Deep mission, as usual the pug formed go in kill and reach the end where we have to kill Kanaxie in the area where there is degens to every player. All is degening and monk is using Heal party to keep up with the degen as usual. But the quite a few have got so huge DP that heal party is unable to keep up with their degen, and orsion over heal them and prolly lasted 3 seconds before their health degen to the 20%.
I throw HB on them on those very low DP ones, particularly the lower health build battery necro
sometimes team can be so overwhelm by degens by the time u finish casting orsion on the last player, the first one that u cast orsion on is dead, but if u use HB on the first player to controll the degen while u use those +5 energy healing on ur other 3-4 players, u can keep ur first player alive.
HB wasn't noobish, only player does not know what it is use for and see it as a waste of slot and energy.
No skill on this game is useless, only players that does not know how to use it is. Anet would not create a spell that is useless, and if HB was so useless, it would have been updated to maybe 5 energy long ago.
don't flame me, its just my 2 cents
Zui
Quote:
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Originally Posted by beta man
HB...it could be good
Once i rememeber in The Deep mission, as usual the pug formed go in kill and reach the end where we have to kill Kanaxie in the area where there is degens to every player. All is degening and monk is using Heal party to keep up with the degen as usual. But the quite a few have got so huge DP that heal party is unable to keep up with their degen, and orsion over heal them and prolly lasted 3 seconds before their health degen to the 20%. I throw HB on them on those very low DP ones, particularly the lower health build battery necro sometimes team can be so overwhelm by degens by the time u finish casting orsion on the last player, the first one that u cast orsion on is dead, but if u use HB on the first player to controll the degen while u use those +5 energy healing on ur other 3-4 players, u can keep ur first player alive. HB wasn't noobish, only player does not know what it is use for and see it as a waste of slot and energy. No skill on this game is useless, only players that does not know how to use it is. Anet would not create a spell that is useless, and if HB was so useless, it would have been updated to maybe 5 energy long ago. don't flame me, its just my 2 cents |
My only questions are:
1) For what reason did you take Healing Breeze? Obviously you didn't forsee your group being in that horrible situation?
2) You guys are on PvEs, right(Don't answer that, you were PvEing so you were obviously using a PvE...)? Can't you rune swap when you have DP? Can't you switch to a weapon set that has higher health?
3) Why did your group have that much DP?
I'm not trying to say Healing Breeze is useless, because it can be effecient when a single target is constantly taking small amounts of damage, and won't be healed to full by Healing Breeze. I'm just saying Healing Breeze is useless almost all of the time, and is therefore not worth the slot on your bar most of the time. Oh, and for it not being buffed/changed, there are a ton of skills like that, and I'm assuming ANET didn't want to make 55ing even easier, because alot of horrible skills in most situations associated with that build have never been buffed.
beta man
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zui
Lol.
My only questions are: 1) For what reason did you take Healing Breeze? Obviously you didn't forsee your group being in that horrible situation? |
*
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zui
2) You guys are on PvEs, right(Don't answer that, you were PvEing so you were obviously using a PvE...)? Can't you rune swap when you have DP? Can't you switch to a weapon set that has higher health?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zui
3) Why did your group have that much DP?
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lol, joking.
well, things does goes wrong in game, maybe the healer does not heal on time, maybe the warrior fail to block the oni and let them slip through i can't remember. There will always be error somewhere, it happens to even top gvg,pvp,HA teams as well, so frankly i dont remember why. maybe we lost concentration over a long period of time? or maybe the healer is to blame for the deaths AGAIN?
*map out*
*PlayerNameMonk have left the game
Lews
I've only done Arborstone a few times on my Monk ( I don't enjoy PvE ) but I think I used Healing Breeze.
Enchanted Warrior
Got rid of my monk, I got tired of all the hate etc if someone died. Just wasn't worth it to me to keep him.
beta man
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior
Got rid of my monk, I got tired of all the hate etc if someone died. Just wasn't worth it to me to keep him.
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Priest Of Sin
Heal party is a MEGA waste of energy. 15 for a small party-wide heal? There are better heals out there...
This is why I deleted my monk. I don't like being blamed, i don't like being yelled at, and I don't like other pug monks wasting their energy then screaming at the BiP. i have a soft spot for necros as well as monks...
This is why I deleted my monk. I don't like being blamed, i don't like being yelled at, and I don't like other pug monks wasting their energy then screaming at the BiP. i have a soft spot for necros as well as monks...
LagunaCid
Heal party is very useful when you have to heal AoE damage... Dont be noobish, youll waste much more mana and time using Orison.
Sluggs
A little love thread for PuG monks
Let's face it: a PuG monk that doesn't quit, keeps a random group alive to complete the mission/quest has superior monking skills to a monk that is in a guild or well organized group.
Monking a good groups requires no particular skills: equip any cookie cutter skillset, and spam orison/woh. That's it. Team members won't over extend, won't get aggro on you, won't ragequit if something goes wrong... this a monk's holidays. But overall, it's boring and mind numbing: a 5 years old can do it.
Monking a PuG leaves you none of that luxury, you'll have to heal everyone, all the time, not just the tanks. And you'll have to do it while under fire yourself. You'll have to make choices, take risks, find yourself low on energy with health bars going down all around you. You will not-that-rarely have to combat degen and spikes on all 7 meambers all by yourself.
This is fun, and requires true skill.
Yeah, there will be jerks that don't realize you're the only thing that kept him from dying two dozen times in the last minute, but the, there are the non-jerks group, and these can be really rewarding... and seeing some comments here, I surmise there are many "guild monks" that rarely experienced this, because they don't have the skills to keep a PuG group alive, and would just ragequit and aggravate everyone in the PuG.
Hurrah for the real PuG monks!
Let's face it: a PuG monk that doesn't quit, keeps a random group alive to complete the mission/quest has superior monking skills to a monk that is in a guild or well organized group.
Monking a good groups requires no particular skills: equip any cookie cutter skillset, and spam orison/woh. That's it. Team members won't over extend, won't get aggro on you, won't ragequit if something goes wrong... this a monk's holidays. But overall, it's boring and mind numbing: a 5 years old can do it.
Monking a PuG leaves you none of that luxury, you'll have to heal everyone, all the time, not just the tanks. And you'll have to do it while under fire yourself. You'll have to make choices, take risks, find yourself low on energy with health bars going down all around you. You will not-that-rarely have to combat degen and spikes on all 7 meambers all by yourself.
This is fun, and requires true skill.
Yeah, there will be jerks that don't realize you're the only thing that kept him from dying two dozen times in the last minute, but the, there are the non-jerks group, and these can be really rewarding... and seeing some comments here, I surmise there are many "guild monks" that rarely experienced this, because they don't have the skills to keep a PuG group alive, and would just ragequit and aggravate everyone in the PuG.
Hurrah for the real PuG monks!
Shadow of Light
Quote:
| Let's face it: a PuG monk that doesn't quit, keeps a random group alive to complete the mission/quest has superior monking skills to a monk that is in a guild or well organized group. |
This is not a bad thing, though it may indeed be boring for the monk.I think what you're trying to say is that a superior monk can deal with pressure, survive when under heavy fire, doesn't ragequit at the first death, and has a modicrum of patience with people. This I would agree to.
Ghull Ka
Aye for this. Three cheers for the hard working PUGmonks.
Eragon Dragonslayer
i did make a monk the first time....i took it around and everytime someone died...who did they blame? thats right...me...so i deleted him...then june 6, 2006 rolled around....i decided to make a monk...i practiced healing in partys with henchies....then when i felt i was good enough....i went into PuGs a and did very good...but the thing that still nags at me is......werent monks waaaaay better back then? lets say sept,oct,nov of 2005? now it seems the quality of alot of monks have just went down.....
FrogDevourer
Alesia is my favourite pick-up mmonk. She has superior monking skills and she never fails me. The only thing that would improve her monking in PuGs is unyielding aura.
As far as humans are concerned, you'll find one good pick-up monk every now and then (just like other professions), but all in all I see more Breeze/Party spammers than good monks. Even the factions extra healers (Danika, Menhlo, Togo) often isn't enough to balance their lack of monking basics.
As far as humans are concerned, you'll find one good pick-up monk every now and then (just like other professions), but all in all I see more Breeze/Party spammers than good monks. Even the factions extra healers (Danika, Menhlo, Togo) often isn't enough to balance their lack of monking basics.
Rera
GvG monks are the really good monks. Them, and HA infusers. No kind of PvE monking even comes close, PUG, Guild, or whatever.
Bankai
You guys are forgetting that a lot of pro monks CAN keep the whole party alive. They just don't like being stressed the whole time because of morons.
And YOU try keeping people alive by pressing two skills when you're having 2 surgers, an axe warrior and -7 degen on you.
And YOU try keeping people alive by pressing two skills when you're having 2 surgers, an axe warrior and -7 degen on you.
Carth`
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rera
GvG monks are the really good monks. Them, and HA infusers. No kind of PvE monking even comes close, PUG, Guild, or whatever.
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Darakus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rera
GvG monks are the really good monks. Them, and HA infusers. No kind of PvE monking even comes close, PUG, Guild, or whatever.
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I'd love for the above poster to try to monk for such a team to see if he would hold to his opinion (which he is entitled to) afterwards.
YunSooJin
You people really have a dim understanding of the kind of pressure a gvg monk is forced to deal with.
Sorry, PvP monks > PvE monks. People can flaunt accusations of how PvP'ers are just elitist, but apart from all the PC BS that's the way the ball rolls.
Sorry, PvP monks > PvE monks. People can flaunt accusations of how PvP'ers are just elitist, but apart from all the PC BS that's the way the ball rolls.
JiggyFly
I've run into those types of Monks, the kind where you know regardless of the situation that you know they have your back. And rather than sit their trying to figure out ways to take as little damage as possible (because you know between breeze spams that the monk is nearing single digit energy), you figure out ways to be the most effective because you know you have a decent monk backing you.
Admittedly it's something that not many PuG monks have, but I've partied with a few that "owned" at what they did. You have to give them credit afterall in most PuGs think of the worst possible scenario you can think of and leave it to some Leroy to play it out...twice.
Of course the whole PvP vs. PVE was bound to happen, but there is such thing as a good PvE Monk, and there's plenty of Healing Breeze turrets in PvP, so there are definitely "good" monks on both sides, but I wouldn't go as far as makign generalized states ment like "PvP>PvE monks" because um have you seen rank 4,000 guild backlines? =P
Admittedly it's something that not many PuG monks have, but I've partied with a few that "owned" at what they did. You have to give them credit afterall in most PuGs think of the worst possible scenario you can think of and leave it to some Leroy to play it out...twice.
Of course the whole PvP vs. PVE was bound to happen, but there is such thing as a good PvE Monk, and there's plenty of Healing Breeze turrets in PvP, so there are definitely "good" monks on both sides, but I wouldn't go as far as makign generalized states ment like "PvP>PvE monks" because um have you seen rank 4,000 guild backlines? =P
Rera
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Darakus
I beg to disagree with the above statement as monking for a group fighting at 5 to 1 is a real challenge that cannot be seen to often in pvp. I will admit that healing in pvp requires nerves and talent because you are a priority target but doing so in pvp with a group that will over-aggro just for the challenge of it is as fun and requires as much talent.
I'd love for the above poster to try to monk for such a team to see if he would hold to his opinion (which he is entitled to) afterwards. |
The point is that these situations are highly abnormal. You would be lying if you said the average PUG monk had to face this kind of situation regularly, and you would further be lying if you said that these monks could actually pull teams through these kinds of situations.
Monks are under ridiculous amounts of pressure in GvG. It's not something you can talk about without actually witnessing for yourself. Otherwise, you can't know what it's like to heal a team when you're being shut down the entire match, when you have to focus swap every time you want to cast anything, when there's a warrior on your ass, a ranger sitting on your face, and some mother****er galeing you for every spike. It's not a simple matter like simply being outnumbered in PvE - this is about good players who are doing their very best to make sure you are as useless as possible, and you have to do your very best to make sure you can still keep your team alive.
I actually wasn't planning on arguing about it, and Carth is right, there's no point turning this into another PvP vs. PvE flamewar ... so I guess I'll leave this thread to the rest of you :P
saphir
comparing gvg monks to pve monks is like apples to oranges. they have different purposes, are usually skilled differently and play in vastly different conditions.
pve focuses more on keeping your party alive, the monk can usually move to a safe area, or scrape the aggro off on a war if they know what they're doing. pve monks in elite areas where aatxes and black thorns roam focus keeping the party alive under 350 damage hits and, without the benefit of other party memebers going around instantly res sig'ing a player that goes down.
in gvg, monks are generally first target, and your primary job is to keep yourself alive and absorb the other party's damage output. hexes and conditions abound, and generally you're more focused on keeping yourself alive and useful rather than the party. I only have limited experience in gvg monking, but matches are definitely interesting to watch in observer mode.
the closest equivalent to a pve pug monk i think would be pvp "pug" monking (ie. RA, AB etc). There you don't know what you're going to get .. and there is also much less teamwork, w/ your leeroys and tanking eles, etc. Pvp pug monking isn't too hard, but is nevertheless a different play style and my skill bar is quite different from playing pve.
pve focuses more on keeping your party alive, the monk can usually move to a safe area, or scrape the aggro off on a war if they know what they're doing. pve monks in elite areas where aatxes and black thorns roam focus keeping the party alive under 350 damage hits and, without the benefit of other party memebers going around instantly res sig'ing a player that goes down.
in gvg, monks are generally first target, and your primary job is to keep yourself alive and absorb the other party's damage output. hexes and conditions abound, and generally you're more focused on keeping yourself alive and useful rather than the party. I only have limited experience in gvg monking, but matches are definitely interesting to watch in observer mode.
the closest equivalent to a pve pug monk i think would be pvp "pug" monking (ie. RA, AB etc). There you don't know what you're going to get .. and there is also much less teamwork, w/ your leeroys and tanking eles, etc. Pvp pug monking isn't too hard, but is nevertheless a different play style and my skill bar is quite different from playing pve.
Darakus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rera
You can set up situations in PvE that are so catastrophic so as to be meaningless. Sure, you can run into Abaddon's Mouth, aggro everything in the fort, and try to heal the group through it. Or you could have 7 frenzyhealsig warriors in Vizunah and try to keep them up by yourself. Wanna try? It'll be 'challenging'.
The point is that these situations are highly abnormal. You would be lying if you said the average PUG monk had to face this kind of situation regularly, and you would further be lying if you said that these monks could actually pull teams through these kinds of situations. Monks are under ridiculous amounts of pressure in GvG. It's not something you can talk about without actually witnessing for yourself. Otherwise, you can't know what it's like to heal a team when you're being shut down the entire match, when you have to focus swap every time you want to cast anything, when there's a warrior on your ass, a ranger sitting on your face, and some mother****er galeing you for every spike. It's not a simple matter like simply being outnumbered in PvE - this is about good players who are doing their very best to make sure you are as useless as possible, and you have to do your very best to make sure you can still keep your team alive. I actually wasn't planning on arguing about it, and Carth is right, there's no point turning this into another PvP vs. PvE flamewar ... so I guess I'll leave this thread to the rest of you :P |
If you compare the best of one world to the average of the other you will be of course switching the balance greatly won't you?
And by the way I wasn't arguing about the quality of the top monks in PvP, I just stated that I was of the opinion there were monks as good in PvE and some of them were PUGs monk. I would be grateful if you would not twist my "the best PuG monks are great monks" to "PuG monks are great monks" which isn't exactly the same.
waarph
Hi to all,
I played both a monk and a healer Rit.
You are tired playing the monk and saving everyone without any thanks? Play a Rit
. You can turn into a heal rit if necessary or do something else if you find a second monk.
Beside, it is a really nice to spam heals without ever worrying about energy. It is such a change from the monk side of thing. Also, no one blames you nor thank you for the healing 
(except the monks that usually say gg to me at the end... but between healers we are more polite ).
That for PVE of course for those still in this debate...
Cya
I played both a monk and a healer Rit.
You are tired playing the monk and saving everyone without any thanks? Play a Rit
. You can turn into a heal rit if necessary or do something else if you find a second monk.Beside, it is a really nice to spam heals without ever worrying about energy. It is such a change from the monk side of thing. Also, no one blames you
nor thank you for the healing (except the monks that usually say gg to me at the end... but between healers we are more polite ).That for PVE of course for those still in this debate...
Cya
Xeeron
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Matsumi
Maybe it's just more of the boon prot mentality, but healing breaze is usually on a healer monk's skill bar, and it's usually to keep themselves healed.
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http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Healing_Touch
- Xeeron
Lady Lozza
1) Energy management and kiting are taught in pvp
2) Patience is taught in pve pugs
Conclusion: The monk who does both, learns the most.
2) Patience is taught in pve pugs
Conclusion: The monk who does both, learns the most.
torquemada
Here we go again!
Close topic?
Close topic?
cataphract
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior
Got rid of my monk, I got tired of all the hate etc if someone died. Just wasn't worth it to me to keep him.
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As a monk, you're always right and on top of that - you have the means to impose your will unto others. Ofcourse, you keep this as your last resort and use it only on those who have proven worthy of it; i.e. a/w using frenzy, minion masters with lvl 5 minions, e/mo echo nukers, OMG-HEAL-MY-PET rangers, I-HEAL-BETTER-THAN-yu0 ritualists, w/n's with ss that say they'll keep their energy up with balthazar's and alike. PvE is lots of fun when you reach the Zen of not losing your nerves to random idiots.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xeeron
Healing monks self heal:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Healing_Touch |
Roshi_ikkyu
we should post names of monk who show out standing healingness-ness
Roshi Ikkyu!
Hey I'm modest!
Roshi Ikkyu!
Hey I'm modest!
Vilaptca
I'm sorry, but was it really necessary to create a WHOLE new thread just to post an opposing argument.
Threads merged.
Threads merged.
Franco
lol I know, I just BiP both monks in the party, then obviously sacrificed 140hp. So I got atacked... and all the 2 monks could do for me is give me a healing breeze ? wtf , Healing breeze is a useless skill in monk bar ><.
teenchi
Funny that some other monk just screamed at me about this last night. He thought he was the only one doing the healing and I felt that I was the only one doing the healing. I suggested that I take the top half of the group and he take the bottom half and he just kept whining. He accused me of using heal party (which I didn't have equipped) bc my energy was low. My energy was low because either we weren't communicating and healing the same people or he was doing nothing. Sucks when the monks don't split up the healing evenly or call.
Rera
Anyone who thinks a good GvG monk can't PvE well is deluding themselves. It isn't apples and oranges. Monking is one of the few professions that actually translates very well from PvP to PvE. The skills you pick up in PvP, such as good emgt, watching the field, positioning, etc. all work very well in PvE.
@Darakus:
I'm comparing an average GvG situation to an average PvE situation. I'm not comparing the best monks of one side to the average monks of another side, because god knows the average monk isn't worth comparing to anything.
Regardless of PvP vs. PvE or whatever else, a good monk is a good monk, and I think we can all agree that there are precious few of them to go around.
@Darakus:
I'm comparing an average GvG situation to an average PvE situation. I'm not comparing the best monks of one side to the average monks of another side, because god knows the average monk isn't worth comparing to anything.
Regardless of PvP vs. PvE or whatever else, a good monk is a good monk, and I think we can all agree that there are precious few of them to go around.
Franco
the way i see it, most people nowadays just make monks to 1) farm or 2) get in parties quick lol ( in pve).
Age
Simple answer to the OP is don't pug with real Monk use henches instead and those who say pvpers can handle a Pug I am not sure about that.if I was a pvp only Monk i would be used to a predictable situation either we win or lose no way about it in pve pug it is very unpredictable and not knowing the odds of winning and besides that you have TS or Vent. which makes your jop easier not just team chat.I think a pvp monk would quit and give up becuase of lack of organisation.It is rare that pugs are so organised as I see in gvg in OB mode.I know they are under great deals of pressure but once you done it 50 times you get use to it and know all the halls off by heart.
w00t!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by YunSooJin
You people really have a dim understanding of the kind of pressure a gvg monk is forced to deal with.
Sorry, PvP monks > PvE monks. People can flaunt accusations of how PvP'ers are just elitist, but apart from all the PC BS that's the way the ball rolls. |
I do both PvP (bond, rc, infuse woh), and PvE (all types cept smite), and the pressure is just different. PvP have to deal with spikes, pressure, blah, blah, blah. They face builds in RA and HA that crush them no matter how good they are. It's tough to be a monk in PvP.
PvE is the same, but for different reasons. PvE monks have to keep groups alive that are less skilled and uncoordinated than HA teams (but not RA groups). The pressure is not usually on them, but rather a self-imposed pressure of trying to do a good job and not get flamed.
Now I don't typically GvG, but I PvP a lot and find that it's usually easier to be successful in PvP than in PvE. Expectations are lower in PvP as you usually are the focus. In PvE, most players will blame you if they fail, and in rare occasions credit you if they succeed. You are the lynchpin for success or failure, which usually isn't the case in PvP.
So go back and IWAY or Touch someone and then tell me how hard that is.
Franco
All that monks do in most parties is spam healing breeze and heal party and then get complimented for "oh nice healing" While for sure there are much better players doing a better job then him.
Im sorry if im wrong but this is the kind of monks I ve been geting lately.
Im sorry if im wrong but this is the kind of monks I ve been geting lately.
Matsumi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Franco
lol I know, I just BiP both monks in the party, then obviously sacrificed 140hp. So I got atacked... and all the 2 monks could do for me is give me a healing breeze ? wtf , Healing breeze is a useless skill in monk bar ><.
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Aside from that, ya, I knew about healing touch, but sometimes I don't want to put it on there. If I want to give somebody else a heal, I don't want to get all the way up in their face to do it.
Gee, maybe somebody should send a memo out to all the healer henches, telling them that if they use breeze they're officially a noob huh?
Franco
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If you're a BiP necro, shouldn't you be already using blood renewal and some other form of healing anyway? I don't see why you're complaining about a breeze so much if given one in that situation. Or maybe you're one of those necros that expects the monks to just keep healing him throughout every sac skill you use. That, from my own experience is really annoying. It's like saying "Hey guys, look, I'm cutting myself, I'm cutting myself again... What? No Heals? You guys are noobs!" Aside from that, ya, I knew about healing touch, but sometimes I don't want to put it on there. If I want to give somebody else a heal, I don't want to get all the way up in their face to do it. Gee, maybe somebody should send a memo out to all the healer henches, telling them that if they use breeze they're officially a noob huh? |
GG
EDIT: Oh and read my post before making comments , I said I use BR, I didnt say I was a BiP necro.
Matsumi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Franco
lol I know, I just BiP both monks in the party, then obviously sacrificed 140hp. So I got atacked... and all the 2 monks could do for me is give me a healing breeze ? wtf , Healing breeze is a useless skill in monk bar ><.
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