I wish Anet would create some new body models.
1) In Prophesies, there were 6 unique female body models, one for each profession.
2) In Factions, there Anet added 1 unique female body model, the assassin. The Ritualist recycled the elementalist body.
3) In Nightfall, there are 0 unique female body models. The female paragon and dervish both recycle the elementalist body.
So there are now 4 professions using the female elementalist body model. Kinda lame.
Lazy Anet recycles the fem ele body again
easyg
KoalaMeatPie
What I have Noticed: All Female casters have there legs together, All Female Melee have their legs apart.
Does Not mean they are recycling.
Besides, Content is Expensive. I suppose People will truely stop compainning when A character creation system such as the one in City of heroes / Villains is implemented.
Does Not mean they are recycling.
Besides, Content is Expensive. I suppose People will truely stop compainning when A character creation system such as the one in City of heroes / Villains is implemented.
technician
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Originally Posted by KoalaMeatPie
What I have Noticed: All Female casters have there legs together, All Female Melee have their legs apart.
Does Not mean they are recycling. Besides, Content is Expensive. I suppose People will truely stop compainning when A character creation system such as the one in City of heroes / Villains is implemented. |
KoalaMeatPie
What I mean is:
Just because he says theya re recycling, does not mean they are.
How many Slim female body types can you draw out before repeating yourself / making them similar?
Even if they are recycling, who cares, Stop looking for faults where they're are none. As long as they heads are different and each have ther distinct looks. I mean, you can easily spot the difference between necro Paragon Ele Rt just by the head and hair style.
Just because he says theya re recycling, does not mean they are.
How many Slim female body types can you draw out before repeating yourself / making them similar?
Even if they are recycling, who cares, Stop looking for faults where they're are none. As long as they heads are different and each have ther distinct looks. I mean, you can easily spot the difference between necro Paragon Ele Rt just by the head and hair style.
Edge Of Malan
If they were recycling, they'd all have the exact same moves and dances.
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by Edge Of Malan
If they were recycling, they'd all have the exact same moves and dances.
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Especially /taunt. That's a fun one, and there's only like three different versions for each sex on ten classes. C'mon! Some variety, here!
Edge Of Malan
Would you complain if they hung you with a brand new rope? That seems trivial to me, and not worthy of public rant, but if it means that much to you...Nike on
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by Edge Of Malan
Would you complain if they hung you with a brand new rope? That seems trivial to me, and not worthy of public rant, but if it means that much to you...Nike on
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ooooooooo k...
Edge Of Malan
Well, seriously, would you rather their time be spent making new models for every campaign, or working on other more interesting new material? Heck, if you spend that much time watching your characters emotes, and actually complaining about it, then you're not focusing on the game.
You can't see the forest for the trees.
You can't see the forest for the trees.
Omega X
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Originally Posted by KoalaMeatPie
What I have Noticed: All Female casters have there legs together, All Female Melee have their legs apart.
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arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by Edge Of Malan
Well, seriously, would you rather their time be spent making new models for every campaign, or working on other more interesting new material? Heck, if you spend that much time watching your characters emotes, and actually complaining about it, then you're not focusing on the game.
You can't see the forest for the trees. |
"if you spend that much time watching your characters emotes, and actually complaining about it, then you're not focusing on the game." - WTF? I could say the exact same thing about everything in the game.
See how this works: "if you spend that much time watching your characters armor/items/enemies' appearence/various other content, and actually complaining about it, then you're not focusing on the game."
So does that mean the devs are working too much on all of that content? Should we just have re-hashed old content over and over? No new items, or armor or anything just because it's not deemed interesting by certain people?
Who sets these priorities and what is deemed important/necessary/interesting? You?
BeXoR
No one has boobs as big as an ele! 
N E D M
the ritualist female is not the same model as the ele.
the riualist has MUCH bigger boobs.
the riualist has MUCH bigger boobs.
Rallick
When you mention it Dervish female does seem to be a bit flat chested in comparison to ele. I guess they try to differentiate the female models by bra size 
Btw, is it just me or does that ele henchie in nightfall had some extra *ekhm* equipment on her
Btw, is it just me or does that ele henchie in nightfall had some extra *ekhm* equipment on her
floppinghog
who cares if they are or not? seriously.
male dervish and male paragon are totally new. they both have new animation for nearly all weapons, - i tested.
i may be a bit against females and not know it, cause having a decent looking girl in a robe, holding a scythe is just... makes no sense, should be ugly and badass woman COME ON!!!1
male dervish and male paragon are totally new. they both have new animation for nearly all weapons, - i tested.
i may be a bit against females and not know it, cause having a decent looking girl in a robe, holding a scythe is just... makes no sense, should be ugly and badass woman COME ON!!!1
Whispering Siren
I wish they'd recycle one of the other models... I personally dislike the ele model. Angle of her shoulders, large chest, the way she stands, etc. The other models are cuter, more unique, less Barbie.
I understand them not making new models for each profession (though that would be nice) but at least stop with the female ele already!
I understand them not making new models for each profession (though that would be nice) but at least stop with the female ele already!
Makkert
rit female != ele female
haven't watched the para and dervish enough to know about those.
haven't watched the para and dervish enough to know about those.
arcanemacabre
I agree that the Rit is definately not using the Ele model. It's new, pretty sure. The Paragon was assumed to be using the Ele model, both male and female, but I don't know how true that is. The Dervish looks to be the male/female Ranger models.
This is all speculation, really, and matters not, IMO.
This is all speculation, really, and matters not, IMO.
Rallick
I just want them to recycle the Little Thom model, I want to make myself a chubby warrior and get a drunkard title
Henchman
Yeah I agree with the OP.
The instant I saw the female Dervish model, I realized it was exactly the same as the ele. I am not talking about the emotes- I am talking about the posture in which the charcter stands, the way they run, and how the cast spells.
Asides from the faces (and perhaps the chest....), they are both identical.
The instant I saw the female Dervish model, I realized it was exactly the same as the ele. I am not talking about the emotes- I am talking about the posture in which the charcter stands, the way they run, and how the cast spells.
Asides from the faces (and perhaps the chest....), they are both identical.
bigwig
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Originally Posted by Edge Of Malan
Well, seriously, would you rather their time be spent making new models for every campaign, or working on other more interesting new material? Heck, if you spend that much time watching your characters emotes, and actually complaining about it, then you're not focusing on the game.
You can't see the forest for the trees. |
arcanemacabre
Thanks for that. I now doubt they are identical. Details, you ask?
Both the Paragon and Dervish models are overall thinner than the Ele, look closely at their calves and you'll see what I'm talking about.
However, the Paragon and the Ele have similar long necks, the Dervish doesn't.
They all three have different shoulders, look closely.
The Paragon and Dervish appear to have similar, thin arms, potentially like the Assassin.
Other than those differences, yes, they are similar, but not the same.
Both the Paragon and Dervish models are overall thinner than the Ele, look closely at their calves and you'll see what I'm talking about.
However, the Paragon and the Ele have similar long necks, the Dervish doesn't.
They all three have different shoulders, look closely.
The Paragon and Dervish appear to have similar, thin arms, potentially like the Assassin.
Other than those differences, yes, they are similar, but not the same.
Cineris
I noticed the Dervish seemed to use many of the same animations as the Mesmer -- I think the Mesmer and the Elementalist may be the same, or mostly the same.
I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed that the Dervish doesn't seem to have original emotes (aside from Dance). In general I would like more emotes, more command variations for emotes, and distinctive animations for the different classes.
Although Nightfall is looking really nice overall, I don't think going in and posing the skeletons in slightly different ways for the new classes is too much to ask.
I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed that the Dervish doesn't seem to have original emotes (aside from Dance). In general I would like more emotes, more command variations for emotes, and distinctive animations for the different classes.
Although Nightfall is looking really nice overall, I don't think going in and posing the skeletons in slightly different ways for the new classes is too much to ask.
easyg
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Thanks for that. I now doubt they are identical. Details, you ask?
Both the Paragon and Dervish models are overall thinner than the Ele, look closely at their calves and you'll see what I'm talking about. However, the Paragon and the Ele have similar long necks, the Dervish doesn't. They all three have different shoulders, look closely. The Paragon and Dervish appear to have similar, thin arms, potentially like the Assassin. Other than those differences, yes, they are similar, but not the same. |
The only things that will change when you toggle are 1) length of neck and relative position of head 2) on dervish, extension of right arm from body.
These differences aside, it's quite obvious Anet used the same 3D model for each of these professions. I think the Ritualist is the same, but I'm too lazy to make one to scale. It just so happens that my ele, paragon and dervish are exactly the same size and are located next to each other in my character select screen. So when I toggled between them it was obvious the only thing that changed was the head.
CorstedPirate
I am sure this will sound a little crude. Anyone that has made a study of breasts would be able to see that the female Rit does not have the same body model as the female Ele. It is such an obvious difference that I am amazed that people say they have the same body model. The female Rit also has different shaped hips, more similar to the female Necro model than the female Ele. I haven't bothered to make any other comparisons at this time, I don't really care enough to bother.
KurtTheBehemoth
This thread is useless. Any true GW player understands how much time went into this chapter. If gazing at your female character, pretending she was real and that she could take your virginity were the purpose of the game then it would have the OP's name in the title. This game deserves our praise. It is a masterpiece.
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by easyg
I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. They are identical.
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You got PS skills? Do an overlay comparison. Be sure to get screenies of them in the exact same position and animation frame (breathing). See for yourself.
I'm not going to do this because it's not my claim to prove. In fact, I even half-assed agreed with you until you showed that pic and they looked (obvious to me) different. Not pushing an agenda here, just stating what I see.
Cineris
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Wow... kitty has claws.
You got PS skills? Do an overlay comparison. Be sure to get screenies of them in the exact same position and animation frame (breathing). See for yourself. I'm not going to do this because it's not my claim to prove. In fact, I even half-assed agreed with you until you showed that pic and they looked (obvious to me) different. Not pushing an agenda here, just stating what I see. |
Agreed with you here, there are slight differences -- At least in the Dervish model. I think the Paragon and the Elementalist look identical, aside from scaling, though.
Nevertheless, it's clear from the animations of the emotes that the Dervish is using the same skeleton as E/Me/etc, and thus shares the same animations for emotes.
easyg
arcanemacabre
IMHO, there are differences. Again, I said they were similar, just not the same, so technically no, none of them use the elementalist model except the elementalist.
Here's something to mull over... all the classes were most likely built off of two original models, a male and a female. Those models were then tweaked and tweaked some more to become different. Polygons were added in some areas, and removed in others all to create 'differences' in the models. Suddenly, all the models looked different, albeit slightly in the case of certain models.
Now, where the most 'disturbing' similarity is, is the animations. The most notable, how the character is standing when idle. This is the biggest difference between all the models. If the female Necro also stood exactly the way the Ele did, you'd be swearing duplicates there, too.
I think that's where you're gathering most of the similarities. I agree that this could be attributed to laziness, to a degree. However the models themselves are most definately different, or as different as GW models get. I'd be the first person to jump on the bandwagon that the Warrior (and potentially the Dervish and Paragon) females need to be bulked up a bit to reflect their field of expertise.
I think the people who make the models do a fantastic job, and aren't "lazy" in the least. Case in point: Do you realize how much work is involved in modelling each piece of armor for each character? I know I don't. But I do know it's probably a lot. Why would they just cut & paste the model of each character, but then spend an inordinate amount of time on the armors? Why not just cut & paste those (Nightfall warrior armor excluded - that was a tad lazy)? They even modelled their undies differently on each model!
If there is any reason for model similarity, it would be because that is what is pleasing to the eye. Remember the outrage directed toward Anet when everyone saw the Assassin? Lots of differences made to that model to make her 'sleek' and 'tone' to fit her profession, and instead people said she looked more 'anorexic' and 'child-like'.
Here's something to mull over... all the classes were most likely built off of two original models, a male and a female. Those models were then tweaked and tweaked some more to become different. Polygons were added in some areas, and removed in others all to create 'differences' in the models. Suddenly, all the models looked different, albeit slightly in the case of certain models.
Now, where the most 'disturbing' similarity is, is the animations. The most notable, how the character is standing when idle. This is the biggest difference between all the models. If the female Necro also stood exactly the way the Ele did, you'd be swearing duplicates there, too.
I think that's where you're gathering most of the similarities. I agree that this could be attributed to laziness, to a degree. However the models themselves are most definately different, or as different as GW models get. I'd be the first person to jump on the bandwagon that the Warrior (and potentially the Dervish and Paragon) females need to be bulked up a bit to reflect their field of expertise.
I think the people who make the models do a fantastic job, and aren't "lazy" in the least. Case in point: Do you realize how much work is involved in modelling each piece of armor for each character? I know I don't. But I do know it's probably a lot. Why would they just cut & paste the model of each character, but then spend an inordinate amount of time on the armors? Why not just cut & paste those (Nightfall warrior armor excluded - that was a tad lazy)? They even modelled their undies differently on each model!
If there is any reason for model similarity, it would be because that is what is pleasing to the eye. Remember the outrage directed toward Anet when everyone saw the Assassin? Lots of differences made to that model to make her 'sleek' and 'tone' to fit her profession, and instead people said she looked more 'anorexic' and 'child-like'.
Align
Show me the differences between the core professions.
Commander Ryker
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Originally Posted by easyg
I wish Anet would create some new body models.
1) In Prophesies, there were 6 unique female body models, one for each profession. 2) In Factions, there Anet added 1 unique female body model, the assassin. The Ritualist recycled the elementalist body. 3) In Nightfall, there are 0 unique female body models. The female paragon and dervish both recycle the elementalist body. So there are now 4 professions using the female elementalist body model. Kinda lame. |
Cineris
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
IMHO, there are differences. Again, I said they were similar, just not the same, so technically no, none of them use the elementalist model except the elementalist.
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With Prophecies we got at least 2(?) male and 2(?) female bodies, plenty of animations and plenty of customization options for all of them. I don't expect quite the same amount of content for Factions or Nightfall ... But both Factions and Nightfall are priced as standalone games. I expect a reasonably comparable amount of content if they are charging the same price as for Prophecies.
Re-using models and, in particular, re-using the skeletal animations, is disappointing to me. It may be that ArenaNet's artists feel that people don't want any other bodytypes than a slim, big-breasted woman so that they don't bother producing anything else -- a notion that may be true. But utilizing the same animations strips any derivative classes of any unique carriage, demeanor, and body language they might otherwise have had.
Are ArenaNet's employees lazy? Of course not. I'm sure they're working their butts off. I do 3D modelling and animation as a hobby, and it's certainly time intensive (although not a black art as you seem to make it out to be, arcanemacabre). Is it possible for them to deliver a $50 product (id est, Prophecies) on a six-month schedule? That's the real question we need to be asking. Personally, if they can't devote enough resources to produce a full complement of art options (id est, faces, hairstyles, body types, animations) on a 6 month schedule then give it two more months, or four. I'd rather see ArenaNet producing polished product than rushing out content every six months in a race to the bottom.
Shattered Self
Holy crap, WTF is it with people and the "6 month schedule" deal? There are TWO DIFFERENT dev groups, on staggered 1-year cycles. The team that did Factions is presumably deeply engrossed in Ch4 now.
As far as differences in models, first off they're limited in the kind of models people want to play. I guarantee you, if they put in fat female models, almost nobody would play them. Second off, making a whole new model from the ground up takes quite a bit of time, and if they've decided that they need the expansions on a 1-year dev cycle to stay in business, then I'd prefer the modellers spend their limited time making NEW MONSTERS, instead of new character models that will end up looking a hell of a lot like the old ones any way.
As far as differences in models, first off they're limited in the kind of models people want to play. I guarantee you, if they put in fat female models, almost nobody would play them. Second off, making a whole new model from the ground up takes quite a bit of time, and if they've decided that they need the expansions on a 1-year dev cycle to stay in business, then I'd prefer the modellers spend their limited time making NEW MONSTERS, instead of new character models that will end up looking a hell of a lot like the old ones any way.
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by Cineris
and it's certainly time intensive (although not a black art as you seem to make it out to be, arcanemacabre).
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I have done a bit of modelling myself (working with 3ds max and Maya), though I wouldn't even consider myself an amateur, I can still tell when something would require a lot of work, despite one's skills.
The differences matter only because, as I said, people enjoy the appearence already, and are used to the super-model symmetry. It's a hard, cold, sad fact of life, but people like things perfect and can immediately tell when something's off (to them). The current models can only be tweaked ever so little without stepping outside that comfort zone.
You feel like you could do better, go ahead and send in your resume.
Solar_Takfar
OR, a way to increase the amount of models without increasing the development time would be to hire MORE artists. If they had just one more artist working full time, year round, on player models, I'm pretty sure we'd have at least a few more bodies and faces to play with. And it's not like it's terribly expensive for a company like anet to do that, either. All they'd need to be able fully pay an artist, I guess, would be to sell somewhere between five hundred and a thousand copies of the game yearly; we know they can sell A LOT more than that, and I don't believe their budget is so tight as to not allow this extra expense if they wanted...
The fact is, they probably don't pay much heed to this problem; they're hardly going to sell any extra copy of the game because they have one more player model, and that's that. While the game becomes a bit less polished because of this, it's still a great game. All we can do is hope they find some time to improve the customization aspect of the game some more, since the lack of options there is one of the things that keep the game from being a true masterpiece.
The fact is, they probably don't pay much heed to this problem; they're hardly going to sell any extra copy of the game because they have one more player model, and that's that. While the game becomes a bit less polished because of this, it's still a great game. All we can do is hope they find some time to improve the customization aspect of the game some more, since the lack of options there is one of the things that keep the game from being a true masterpiece.
Yakk
I agree. They obviously put a lot more effort into individualization of characters with the first release. If it is a tradeoff of that versus content, playbalance, streaming technology, etc., then I would say it's not important. But, I don't believe that. GW has already made a lot of compromise already on the ability to individualiza a character and create a unique identity. Isn't that why we play games like this, the fantasy of occupying another body, another soul for a short while. If we all walk around looking like everyone else and not being able to express ourselves uniquely, then this game will loose the very thing that keeps most people interested.
Vermilion Okeanos
I really don't think this matter... as long as we still can identify one class from another while looking decent.
lyra_song
In battle they have different animations.
Thats what should matter.
Ritualist doesnt swing a hammer the same way an ele does.
Although they do shoot bows the same way....
Thats what should matter.
Ritualist doesnt swing a hammer the same way an ele does.
Although they do shoot bows the same way....