Sour Attitudes of HA - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

04 Oct 2006 at 12:59 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

I will dare to say that being rank zero doesn't necessarily mean someone is a bad player. HOWEVER the overall assumption in HA is that an unranked player is a noob and usually treated like crap. In its current state....

Unranked players ARE noobs 90% of the time. They might be the good guys, but they have no concept of strategy, don't know the popular builds and don't kite warriors who are smashing their faces. Forgive me if I don't want to deal with that.

Quote:

~There is about 0 imagination in build design concerning HA. If someone joins a group wanting to try out a new skill not part of the cookie cutter builds that player is usually trashed and kicked from the team for being a noob.

I somewhat agree on this one - innovation is the only way to improve a build, but the skill in the cookie-cutter build is there for a reason in the first place: it works and it works well because the build has been polished by many players. If you thought of something new, 19 out of 20 times it's not going to work, that's why people might be against changing a build. Also, pugs don't invent builds. Top guilds do. And I find that those groups are usually more open to any changes.

Quote:

~Rank 0 players, which are the majority of Gwars players will find it difficult to party with higher ranking players when they just start, forcing them to PuG with other unranked players. The stress of getting into a decent party through a PuG, which is one of the few choices a R0 player has usually already promotes a sour atmosphere once the "outcasts" party together. After being thoroughly spanked by a ranked team dominating the hall or a cookie cutter build like ViMway or IWAY, bloodspike even 50% of the team will break. This makes GETTING ranked for a new starting player extremely hard and unfulfilling.

Been there, done that. See point 1.

Quote:

~As a rank0 player you will spend 90% of your time finding a team only to have it break after a game. Sometimes the fault will be thrown at someone in the party for making a mistake (oh my god we cant do that in HA) and the player is trashed then kicked.... only to spend another 20mins finding another group.

Not much you can do about this if one idiot thinks he can quit and get into a better group and 2 others follow him.

Quote:

~In HA you are expected to play perfectly while in a PuG of complete strangers on the first run. You had better synch perfectly because if you dont on round one 70% of the time the team will lack the patience for round 2.

You're not expected to play perfectly, you're expected to play adequately. More often than not it's people blaming someone else when they screw up to avoid being blamed.

Quote:

~These forcing of outcast PuGs and struggling R0 players make fame farming easy for subpar builds like VIMway and IWAY. Eventually people get so stress out dealing with the crappiness of HA they either quit or join the ViMway or IWAY teams to avoid the stresses of being an outcast. Wonder why we have so many ViMwayers or IWAYers? Joining a FoTM cookie cutter is sometimes the only way for a R0 player to find a group quickly.

And here's the answer to all your whining: Join a PvP guild. There are plenty that are just starting out and spamming r3+/200k faction. So you don't need to be ranked to join one.

Quote:

~You need to win over 200+ games to actually rank, which means dealing with the bullcrap for a LOOOONNNGGGGG time or cheesing fame off one of the popular builds. Yay welcome to team VIM, now shutup and spam traps you noob.

Actually, you only need to win 14 in a row <.<

And don't think that once you get your deer, things are magically going to be different. No. You'll be playing with people who VIM'ed their way to r3 and thought "Hey, I can join l33tpwn4g3 groups now that play something other than W/R and R/W. Let's try monking!" Needless to say, the results aren't pretty. Organized unranked pugs (different from "nubway" and "grab 8 & go") are often better than r3+ because all those are made of people who C-spaced their rank and learned nothing.

Quote:

IN SHORT:
I can't find a PvP guild and all I can do is whine because I suck too much.

Completely with you on that one.

My point is, if you didn't catch it, that pugs are much, much worse than people who play together regularly, regardless of their rank.

broodijzer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

void

Mo/

04 Oct 2006 at 13:12 - 42

Quote:

If you thought of something new, 19 out of 20 times it's not going to work

I hate this lazy mentality of the pvp'ers. "Let the other groups test something, we'll farm it once it works". bah, be creative! If every group thought like this, there wouldn't even be iway, ranger spike, or almost every popular build.

Sirius Vino

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Oct 2006

04 Oct 2006 at 13:12 - 43

is this the end of iway / vim is that why there sour.. if so good maby foc spiek will make a come back

gene terrodon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Maryland/DC Area

Farmers Unite [FU]

W/

04 Oct 2006 at 13:44 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

~There is about 0 imagination in build design concerning HA. If someone joins a group wanting to try out a new skill not part of the cookie cutter builds that player is usually trashed and kicked from the team for being a noob.

I agree with this assessment. I got into a smite group using a KD warrior build and I got flamed to pieces. It was "eviscerate & shock you noob" and stuff like that. I'm not as fragile as some others, but it really annoyed me.
For the most part, in HA you have to play some old worn out and boring build or henchway.

I started playing GW in March. I PvE mostly, not because I was not interested in PvP, but because I wanted to learn the game and figure out what skills synergize. After four months and many hours, I decided I was ready for low level PvP, RA, AB, competitive missions. I played there to get a grasp of how actual players would react to the skills I was using and so on, as well to test build ideas.

Finally, I decided I was ready to take on HA and boy was I disappointed
The community was real bad as far as rank discrimination...rank 3+, rank 6+ and so on. To get a group, you have to use one of the FoTM builds (boring)
I have quickly realized rank is overrated (rank farmers).

I have played with R3+ who took 1:30 to kill Zaisen.
I have played in a group of unranked who killed them in <0:30.

I have nearly stopped playing (time logged in is about 2hrs a week, from around 15-20) because I am tired of PvE and HA (the only PvP that I see an obtainable goal) is not fun to play at all.

Orbberius

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

04 Oct 2006 at 14:00 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by broodijzer

I hate this lazy mentality of the pvp'ers. "Let the other groups test something, we'll farm it once it works". bah, be creative! If every group thought like this, there wouldn't even be iway, ranger spike, or almost every popular build.

Well, when you're in a PuG, being creative is the last thing you want to do. Chances are, you'll have people in your group who think Power Attack is the best skill ever and everyone has different, 90% inneffectual ideas, everyone thinks they're the boss of the group and everybody wastes their time.

When you're with a bunch of guys you know and have played with, that's the time for testing.

It's not much different in PvE, except PvE is not competition so you can afford to be more flexible.

Senator Tom

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

California

[Dark]

W/

04 Oct 2006 at 14:07 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

HA is indeed not as good as it was when I got my sigil.

TIMELINE

The Golden Age

Introduction of IWAY
*snippity doo dah*

Forgot Spirit Spam, Dual Smite, Air Spike, Ranger Spike, but I dont know if this timeline was only concerning IWAY

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene terrodon

I have played with R3+ who took 1:30 to kill Zaisen.
I have played in a group of unranked who killed them in <0:30.

So? I've taken halls with a group that took over 1min to kill the Zaishen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom4112

Also, a noob =/= unranked person. I only have 35 fame, but im not a noob, and I dont run in and aggro. Infact, ive find alot of R3/6+ Groups giving me a chance, mostly in international districts.

Quite a lot of groups r3/6? Then why don't you have more than 35 fame?

Tuoba Hturt Eht

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Deimos Tel Arin [CCTV]

W/

04 Oct 2006 at 14:12 - 47

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noob

Quote:

Newb vs. noob
Newb and noob may have somewhat different connotations. Newbs are simply newcomers—noob and n00b, on the other hand, generally mean someone who is obnoxious, annoying, or breaks the rules or cannot play effectively; whether they are actual newcomers or not is mostly irrelevant.

......

However, due to the evolution of language, the term noob or 'n00b' is now used both ways and newb is used only infrequently.

Azadaleou

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

Ohio

A/W

04 Oct 2006 at 14:46 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

Unranked players ARE noobs 90% of the time. They might be the good guys, but they have no concept of strategy, don't know the popular builds and don't kite warriors who are smashing their faces. Forgive me if I don't want to deal with that.

I have 0 rank and I'm not close to being a noob. I spend my time in RA and TA. I've tried to pvp in HA, but its so ridiculously hard to get in a group that I stop trying. Everyone wants to see your rank, but that has little to do with my pvp capabilities. What needs to be done(as pointed out by others) the rank system needs to be more individualized. Because right now it bunches so many players in to a few different categories without reflecting the player themself. There could be 100 R8 players, so I guess by them all being R8 that they play just a like?

A ranking system needs to be implemented thats indivdualized not generalized.

Blackhawk

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/

04 Oct 2006 at 15:04 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azadaleou

A ranking system needs to be implemented thats indivdualized not generalized.

I'm assuming that you mean making it character based rather than account based, as just because they're ranked using one specific build which I suspect is the case with the majority of ranked players, doesnt mean they're automatically going to be as good if they start a complete new class but will still use it as a way to blag their way into a team.

Clone

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

04 Oct 2006 at 15:28 - 50

I pretty much gave up on PvP because of the unending waves of elitest pricks running around. I'm comming from a background in more FPS games. And I must say, I've seen behavior from people on GW worse than the infamous Counter-Strike community.

Ole Man Bourbon

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Atlanta

GONG

W/E

04 Oct 2006 at 15:35 - 51

It's definitely going to be FASTER to get groups in HA now, which has been my biggest concern there. It just wasn't worth it to stand there and haggle for an hour with jackasses with the "god forbid we lose the first match" mentality.

sindex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

California

Swords of Night & Day [SWRD]

04 Oct 2006 at 15:44 - 52

The clear definition of Noob and Newb should also include- this meaningless and degrading urban internet acronym was summed up by those four year olds; who thought Nha-Nha-Nha and PooP were pretty interesting words.

Anyways I see your point it does get rather repetitive with most of these people who do call themselves pro’s at Hero’s Ascent, snubbing anyone else. However that’s what technically happens in any game, it’s the psychological obsession of winning and completely forgetting about the “fun factor” (it’s a frequent happening in sports as well). The best way to deal with this problem is find the other people who remember it’s just a game, and if the other team starts mocking you, remember you can always turn off local chat. Personally I have been to Hero’s Ascent only a few times since getting GW about four months after the release; but your right it has changed (it always does when people learn the learning curve). All I know is that certain experiences, have taught me that GW is always changing (re-writing the rules); so there is always a chance to become the better GW player by means of adaptation.

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

04 Oct 2006 at 15:45 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azadaleou

I have 0 rank and I'm not close to being a noob. I spend my time in RA and TA.

RA requires a completely different set of skills. I don't play it very much, but the basic idea of RA is to play a more-or-less self-sufficient build and assume that your three teammates are complete idiots (i.e. not rely on their cooperation and not expect assistance from them). I recognize that it takes skill to play in RA, but that still won't help you much in HoH, which is a completely different ball game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by broodijzer

I hate this lazy mentality of the pvp'ers. "Let the other groups test something, we'll farm it once it works". bah, be creative! If every group thought like this, there wouldn't even be iway, ranger spike, or almost every popular build.

Oh, I tested out my share of stuff and collectively, my guild tested out our share of stuff. Most of it sucked, but some changes turned out to work. What I was saying is that pugs aren't open to modded bars because most of the time they don't work and its a pug's right to refuse. The group is there to play halls for a couple of hours, not to work on improving the build - that is left to guilds.

gene terrodon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Maryland/DC Area

Farmers Unite [FU]

W/

04 Oct 2006 at 17:03 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Tom

So? I've taken halls with a group that took over 1min to kill the Zaishen.

I put that in to make a point....the lower ranked team was more effective at clearing the Zaishen than the higher ranked, bolstering my point that rank is overrated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by senator tom

Quite a lot of groups r3/6? Then why don't you have more than 35 fame?

Good for you winning halls...but yours seems to be the attitude in HA that this thread was centered around.

lennymon

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seattle

Odin's Hammer [OH] - Servant's of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

04 Oct 2006 at 18:15 - 55

iway/vimway ARE the avenues which allow new people to get into HA, and always have been. The fotm groups arent all looking for r6+, anyone can find a vimway group today, earn some fame and perhaps meet a few friends, 6v6 instead of 8v8 is near meaningless change in light of all the new profession combinations, I'd still bet theres going to be a new arena coming 'soon' though.

Sluggs

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

04 Oct 2006 at 18:16 - 56

Just like in PvE your drops get nerfed if you farm too much an area, you shouldn't receive any points if you enter too many PvP games with the same build.
Lameway problem solved.

Navaros

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/Me

04 Oct 2006 at 18:17 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene terrodon

I put that in to make a point....the lower ranked team was more effective at clearing the Zaishen than the higher ranked, bolstering my point that rank is overrated.

So then why does yourself and others complain about "I can't get into high ranked parties because I'm low ranked". If lower ranked parties are so great why not just join them every time and be happy with that since they are so great?

This is where the "argument" of "Rank elitism is unfair to newbies, nerf rank!" always crumbles to dust.

If low ranked players did not want to unjustly leech off of the skills/abilities of much better (high ranked) players than themselves rather than play with people of their own skill level, then they'd have no basis to say "I can't get a team due to rank elitism!", because there are players o'plenty of their own low rank who could always play with them.

pigdestroyer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Los Chavos Del [ocho]

W/

04 Oct 2006 at 18:27 - 58

because youre an unranked noob and I dont want you on my team

Ferrous Capuchin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2006

Chaos Piranha

Me/W

04 Oct 2006 at 18:39 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

For the reason stated by the OP, is mainly and for some the sole reason why pure PvErs exist in this game.

Yep. I love PvP in general, be it BF1942, Eve, Team Fortress, etc. But the GW Heroes Ascent structure is terrible, I've tried a couple of times, and won't go back, I simply don't enjoy the chest-thumping elitist attitudes and cliques, combined with the pre-teen chat room fascination with profanity mentality. Far too many obnoxious idiots with character names of "Jiggly Boobz Nuker".

I'm straight PvE for Guild Wars.

gene terrodon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Maryland/DC Area

Farmers Unite [FU]

W/

04 Oct 2006 at 19:26 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

So then why does yourself and others complain about "I can't get into high ranked parties because I'm low ranked". If lower ranked parties are so great why not just join them every time and be happy with that since they are so great?

This is where the "argument" of "Rank elitism is unfair to newbies, nerf rank!" always crumbles to dust.

If low ranked players did not want to unjustly leech off of the skills/abilities of much better (high ranked) players than themselves rather than play with people of their own skill level, then they'd have no basis to say "I can't get a team due to rank elitism!", because there are players o'plenty of their own low rank who could always play with them.

I don't leech and am intelligent enough to be able to adapt my play to benefit any team I am on.
Me, personally, have no issues getting and sticking with groups.
But shunning someone just because there rank isn't high enough is bad practice, regardless of what anyone thinks.
That rank 1,2 or 3 could be on a second account or just started playing HA after spending hours upon hours honing their skills in other parts of the game.
Now don't get me wrong, inviting a mending wammo in a dual smite group is pretty useless, regardless of the rank. On the otherhand, shunning a Thumper, VIM, B-Spiker (or whatever the FoTM is), who has all the right skills and has a good idea of how to use them, just because they are rank 1 or 2 is, IMO, couterproductive.
Time in, especially the rank farmers, means nothing in GW.
Furthermore, not being able to get into higher ranked groups is not the problem.
It's the people that flame, unneccessarily, at perceived "noobs" that is the problem.

People seem to forget, they started at the bottom too.

But Navarro, I want to thank you for being another, in a growing list of people, that illustrates why this thread was started.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigdestroyer

because youre an unranked noob and I dont want you on my team

Try contributing something...not a very hard concept.

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

04 Oct 2006 at 19:55 - 61

This is just a hunch but.....within the past few weeks I have witnessed Europe keeps favor 17/24 hours. We in the American District get favor sometime around 6-7pm and it would last til after 2am. That's only 7-8 hours of favor. I check the Guild Ladder and Europes got twice the amount of Guilds as we do. Which leads to my question...

Are there more players in Europe or are they just more outgoing in terms of accepting people into parties?

Are they better players in general?

Certainly there must be a reason why they seem to hold favor better then we can. I think if people mainly high end pvp players would open up to the rest of us and teach new players how to HA perhaps the player base would grow thus new "Pros" will emerge thus enabling America to hold favor more often. As it seems right now favor is being held by only a handful of "Good" players during the evening and once they go offline we Americans are defenseless.

My .02.

B Ephekt

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Team Crystalline [TC]

Mo/

04 Oct 2006 at 20:08 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

I will dare to say that being rank zero doesn't necessarily mean someone is a bad player. HOWEVER the overall assumption in HA is that an unranked player is a noob and usually treated like crap. In its current state....

The thing is, when ranked players sign on they want to play, not hold someone's hand or teach them how to pvp. Someone who is unranked may or may not have pvp experience, or their experience may be limited to RA. The issue here is that EVERY unranked player thinks they're amazing and feels like they're OWED a chance in high ranked groups. You're right, we all started at r0, so there should be no issue with learning to play with people your own rank. IMO, r0-3 is a learning period in which you learn maps, tactics and builds as well as build up a friends list. I can't really feel sorry for players who take no initiative there.

When I have to result to PUGs I'm usually open to lower ranked people if they're not annoying or rude. Last night I tried to grab an unranked guy as a smiter for my team just so we could go in faster. Unfortunately, he said he didn't know how to play the build and we decided to just go spam for another rather than spend time teaching the guy how to smite.

Quote:

~There is about 0 imagination in build design concerning HA. If someone joins a group wanting to try out a new skill not part of the cookie cutter builds that player is usually trashed and kicked from the team for being a noob.

If you only PUG, then yeah, you're right but PUGs are generally crappy anyway. There are many HA guilds that do come up with creative builds and variations of balanced teams.

Quote:

~Rank 0 players, which are the majority of Gwars players will find it difficult to party with higher ranking players when they just start, forcing them to PuG with other unranked players. The stress of getting into a decent party through a PuG, which is one of the few choices a R0 player has usually already promotes a sour atmosphere once the "outcasts" party together. After being thoroughly spanked by a ranked team dominating the hall or a cookie cutter build like ViMway or IWAY, bloodspike even 50% of the team will break. This makes GETTING ranked for a new starting player extremely hard and unfulfilling.

That's because most people are too lazy to start their own groups. If you're having trouble finding groups, start your own. It shouldn't take you long to find 8 or more decent players who don't rage, listen and are available to play regularly. Again, I can't really feel sorry for people who just stand around spamming LFG everyday and wonder why they're still unranked.

There is also the option of joining a Tombs guild, which most people seem to completely ignore. I see people spamming for r0/1/2/3/100k+ faction guilds just about every day. These are a good opportunity to get into HA without pugging, so I'm not entirely sure why some people have such hard times finding groups.

Sarevok Thordin

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Scotland

W/N

04 Oct 2006 at 20:12 - 63

Europe isn't any better for elitism.

The thing about HA is it is a PvP area that affects the whole game. If you are there and you hold, people will notice. Which is why many noobs want to get into it. The elitism stops them there, plain and simple, and they go back to pve/ab.

It amazes how much HA has become like a gentleman's club, if you aren't r3+ you are told "gb2ab"

The "Sourness" is just the members of this club rampaging about how their precious old ways are being change and forcing them to *GASP* THINK AND ADAPT.

6 people is going to cause alot of problems yes, since there are now 10 professions......

Assassins will likely never see much action unless some really good ones get with some non-closed minded team mates. In which case they will be valuable monk killers
Ritualists? A "Nice to have but not needed" class since people will put other ones first
Paragons and Dervishes will need to be seen, but I think people will have problems with these ones, since the core classes are allways chosen first.

Anyways, I like the change more than I hate it. Once the gimmick builds are successfully killed, put it back to 8v8

coleslawdressin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Victory on Demand [VoD]

Me/Mo

04 Oct 2006 at 20:26 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawk

QFT and remember kiddies, Rank means NOTHING in PvE so stop flashing those emotes in outposts when trying to get into a group as thats the first thing that stops me from taking a player as he's obviously going to be a complete a**hole.

So stick to what you know best please and dont forget to tell your next employer you're a Ranked player when going for a job as he's obviously going to be so impressed you spend all the time playing video games seeing as there's been a reference to Rank and Qualifications for a job being the same thing

All you need to be "qualified" to play the game is to *shock horror* have a copy of it which is what some people seem to be forgetting round here

Hah, I got to those PVE missions that are annoyingly difficult to do with hench (not impossible).. Then the team wants a lvl 17 wammo "tank" in Ascalon armor instead of a ranger that already completed every single cantha mission and has perfect gear.. because rangers suck of course!

If I get to a fire islands mission and there is nobody in town except one team.. then they wont, for example, take a healing rit and instead wait for a mo/w with healing breeze or a mo/r with dual shot.. well you get the tiger because you suck at GW

If I can help it, I make my own teams and the first two people I get are the monk hench. I will take max 1 wammo as the last character if they complain we need a "tank". I never take assassins without a pvp rank. I will take rits if they are friendly and willing to say what they use. I take any mesmer in town and usually 1-2 necros if I can. I take monks only if they are really nice or mo/me or mo/n.. because not having energy management is just retarded.

As for tombs, I simply don't want to play with you if you don't have vent and a mic. Preferably, you actually use them to communicate and play things that you know how to play instead of making the team lose. Don't feel special if you are rank 2 and I won't take you because there are plenty of rank 9-12 players that I refuse to team too because they are crap.

Make friends, get a guild, try to actually get good not just play FOTM.

Cheers

Aejorii

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

SF, CA

W/

04 Oct 2006 at 20:31 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

The thing is, when ranked players sign on they want to play, not hold someone's hand or teach them how to pvp. Someone who is unranked may or may not have pvp experience, or their experience may be limited to RA. The issue here is that EVERY unranked player thinks they're amazing and feels like they're OWED a chance in high ranked groups. You're right, we all started at r0, so there should be no issue with learning to play with people your own rank. IMO, r0-3 is a learning period in which you learn maps, tactics and builds as well as build up a friends list. I can't really feel sorry for players who take no initiative there.

When I have to result to PUGs I'm usually open to lower ranked people if they're not annoying or rude. Last night I tried to grab an unranked guy as a smiter for my team just so we could go in faster. Unfortunately, he said he didn't know how to play the build and we decided to just go spam for another rather than spend time teaching the guy how to smite.
If you only PUG, then yeah, you're right but PUGs are generally crappy anyway. There are many HA guilds that do come up with creative builds and variations of balanced teams.
That's because most people are too lazy to start their own groups. If you're having trouble finding groups, start your own. It shouldn't take you long to find 8 or more decent players who don't rage, listen and are available to play regularly. Again, I can't really feel sorry for people who just stand around spamming LFG everyday and wonder why they're still unranked.

There is also the option of joining a Tombs guild, which most people seem to completely ignore. I see people spamming for r0/1/2/3/100k+ faction guilds just about every day. These are a good opportunity to get into HA without pugging, so I'm not entirely sure why some people have such hard times finding groups.

qft
Ranked players all started from zero, and had to work their way up to where they are. Players who have initiative in starting groups and developing a good friends list will have a better time in tombs.

supaet

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

04 Oct 2006 at 20:41 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

Thanks for giving everyone a good example of what the OP is talking about. The attitude towards people new to HA - aka newbies - are automatically regarded as noobs by elitist snobs. This is exactly why I don't bother with HA much.

The experienced HA players that don't fall into the "elitist snob" catergory are there, and yes, they don't mind showing newbies the ropes. The problem is there's so few of them in comparison to the rank-happy players.

Newbies don't automatically regard as noobs. I'm willing to take low rank players if they tell me their bar. The newbies will admit they're new. NOOBS will not admit they're newbies.

And come on, if you're rank 0, do you really want to play with a rank9+ team or a rank 6+ team? I wouldn't. Why? because I know that I have much lesser experience than the entire team. I know that I will not be as GOOD, because there are some maps that I've never being to, I don't want to cost those high rank people a match for my mistakes, I am willing to play with people that's around my rank so we can learn each other, play better together, and I have less pressure and more fun.

Eventually, I will have r3, that's a big steping stone, now I can play with r3+ players. Yes I might lose a lot in the begining, but I learn and adjust eventually, I will get my rank9 and play with rank9+ groups. I will not rush myself to play with people that's higher than my rank. They are more skillful than me in this aspect of the game. It is generousity of theires if they take me. I will not be upset if they "discriminate" my rank. Because ranks means experience, it means that my tombing "skills" is at a certain level. Sure my rank3+ group can beat a rank9+ group, but that is highly unlikely in normal circumstances. I learn and work my way to rank 9, and I will always play with lower rank groups, I will teach them the robes. When I was rank 3, if some r6-9 guy is nice enough to join our low rank group, I am willing to listen to him and follow his lead.

If you do not feel the same as me when you are a newbie. You're a NOOB!

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

04 Oct 2006 at 20:47 - 67

Rank farmers. BAH whatever... Never was too keen on the idea. To be honest I have avoided Hall of heroes like it was the plague since about the time the Battle Ilse came about, figuring eventually the groups would get bored with doing the same iway builds forever... But that proved to be wrong. so I just stay away gladly...

Iway has a very simple nerf that has been in the suggestion box for ages...

Quote:

"I Will Avenge You!"
Cast: 5
Duration: 10
For each dead PARTY MEMBER in the area you gain 10 seconds of increased attack speed and health regeneration +3...7.

This would make it so pets which are considered allies, and Alliance fallen which are not on party menu, will not effect Iway. Only if your last man standing of your party, which was always the spirt of the skill to begin with, if not the practical use of it, will you get the full stacked effect of the skill.

This would also return the concept of a respectible warrior build to the game.

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

04 Oct 2006 at 20:53 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene terrodon

I put that in to make a point....the lower ranked team was more effective at clearing the Zaishen than the higher ranked, bolstering my point that rank is overrated.

It's not the rank, but the build that matters when killing the Zaishen.

IWAY will wipe them in 30 seconds on a good try.
Barrage will wipe them in 20.
Edge bomb could do it in 6.

The fastest blood spike pretty much never does it under 40, normally close to 1 minute.
A monk obsidian is going to take about 2 minutes to kill them.

If you don't realize how completely irrelevant your example is, then you deserve your rank 0.

martian tristar

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2005

N/Mo

04 Oct 2006 at 21:20 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azadaleou

I have 0 rank and I'm not close to being a noob. I spend my time in RA and TA. I've tried to pvp in HA, but its so ridiculously hard to get in a group that I stop trying. Everyone wants to see your rank, but that has little to do with my pvp capabilities. What needs to be done(as pointed out by others) the rank system needs to be more individualized. Because right now it bunches so many players in to a few different categories without reflecting the player themself. There could be 100 R8 players, so I guess by them all being R8 that they play just a like?

A ranking system needs to be implemented thats indivdualized not generalized.

read my previous post, IF you cant get into a group MAKE your own group. Its really not that hard to do, sure as hell beats complaining you cant get any groups. You dont mention any rank requirement, many people, like yourself, are very happy to play with someone willing to start an unranked group. Or is playing with r0-2 people not good enough for you?

dont be passive and wait for a group, take the ACTIVE APPROACH!!! Goodluck, it worked for me, should work for anyone with half a brain and decent gw-skills.

Lawnmower

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/R

04 Oct 2006 at 22:18 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

After running out of things to do on my PVE characters, its been over a month since I went back to HA. Things never really changed much and there of course was a new easy no brainer, easy to form/win FOTM that was running loose in the area (VIMWAY).

My big concern was the attitudes of the players, namely in American D1. No welcomes to new players, constant fighting among party up groups, elitists demanding title shows and emotes to get into guild groups. Even on teamspeak things were just dirty.

Its like things have gotten 10x worse since the last time I was in HA. For a player new to the game, coming to this place without knowing friends would make you hate this game. Disgusting, and im just extremely disappointed in the community. We play this game to have fun, that idea was lost somewhere in heros ascent.

My advice to players new to HA is to find friends or a HA oriented guild. I personally will have nothing to do with the place.

bravo. I completely agree.

Tonight was the first time in my entire GW career that I enjoyed pvp, and that was in random arenas. I had alot of fun in RA. I just needed a little bit of succes and 3 friendly teammates and we had fun.. we got 6 straight wins with some good luck. we faced some bad teams, though, but it was still great.

Heroes ascent almost made me quit. I want fame and rank, but I HATE HA. Being european means that the favor is always on our side, but damn...

Anet gotta do something about this. its no wonder why so many people hate this game. the game is the most unforgiving I have ever seen. GW PvP asks more of you than any other game on earth litterly. its supposed to be a game for casual gamers, but its anything BUT that.

faction has little point outside of unlocking baltzar points for pvp chars.

Im hoping and praying that 6vs6 HA will change HA for something much better. something faster, more fun, more fluid.

Akathrielah

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

04 Oct 2006 at 23:23 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

bravo. I completely agree.

Anet gotta do something about this. its no wonder why so many people hate this game. the game is the most unforgiving I have ever seen. GW PvP asks more of you than any other game on earth litterly. its supposed to be a game for casual gamers, but its anything BUT that.

Your kidding me?

Compared to the ridiculously micro intensive RTS games and reflex based FPS games, this game has a much smoother learning curve. Your potential to improve isn't hampered simply because you can't do 100+ APM or can't react to actions that occur within 10 ms.

Ole Man Bourbon

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Atlanta

GONG

W/E

04 Oct 2006 at 23:25 - 72

So why does Europe always have favor? And if it's because Europe has more guilds, then why is that? It used to be the America nearly always had favor. I wonder if people moved to the Euro realm for some reason. Or maybe, does Europe have more people playing GW than America does? Europe is, in fact, a lot of countries.

Or are the Europeans just better?

Just curious, not flaming or anything. I'm American and I don't HA much.

B Ephekt

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Team Crystalline [TC]

Mo/

04 Oct 2006 at 23:32 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Man Bourbon

So why does Europe always have favor? And if it's because Europe has more guilds, then why is that? It used to be the America nearly always had favor. I wonder if people moved to the Euro realm for some reason. Or maybe, does Europe have more people playing GW than America does? Europe is, in fact, a lot of countries.

Or are the Europeans just better?

Just curious, not flaming or anything. I'm American and I don't HA much.

It has to do with the fact that everyone plays in the International districts, and the different 'prime times.'

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

04 Oct 2006 at 23:55 - 74

What makes me laugh is that the HA/Fame system has been so corrupted by exploits/over-poweredness and yet some people still use fame as the measuring tape for their e-penis.

Back in the day when spirit spam, air spike, and pre-nerf IWAY were over-powered you could rake in the fame simply from googling the build and going in to tombs. Lately, plenty of r3 pugs have been winning with b-spike and dual-smite/triple-smite and that is evident from observer mode.

Top 20 GvG-ers are the real winners but don't get the shiny emotes or crystallines and their names don't appear on your screen... although they do win some serious cash now and then.

B Ephekt

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Team Crystalline [TC]

Mo/

05 Oct 2006 at 00:18 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Lately, plenty of r3 pugs have been winning with b-spike and dual-smite/triple-smite and that is evident from observer mode.

This is simply not true, at least not during the times that I play. I play during the American prime time, and while there are some blood spikes, they generally don't win or hold for more than a round or two... and the ones that do are rank 8/9+ friend/guild/alliance groups. I'm pretty sure I haven't seen a pure smite build win, much less hold, in a while now either. And I'm not exactly sure how you know these groups are rank 3 PUGs by watching observer either...

Quote:

Top 20 GvG-ers are the real winners but don't get the shiny emotes or crystallines and their names don't appear on your screen... although they do win some serious cash now and then.

A large part of the GvG population are old tombs players who already have their emotes, and top 16 gets silver capes.

HolyHawk

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

lf guild~

Me/A

05 Oct 2006 at 07:01 - 76

I understand that HA became not welcoming for new players at some time, I can't really place a date for that, but I guess that's just too bad, and people will have to deal with it. Despite age and the fact that people are also sheltered by the internet, allowing many to say mindless crap to each other, without not even being guilty of losing the oppotunity to stay quiet, the called "high ranked" people tend to be an ass, and noobs tend to be noisy. Noobs shouldn't waste their time trying to infiltrate veteran groups, as well as veterans should spare their temper and attittude to themselves. Start from bellow with people from bellow and you will eventually get even or higher. Just don't dream about rank 12 so quick because that won't just happen. As a final note, so far, you won't get any trip and money prizes from HA matches, you can always focus into something else.

If you are wondering, I'm rank7, not a big fan of HA, and find it more hostile and less strategical. A few experiences with some high ranked people made me despise "rank" a little. I'm gvg centred right now.

LONGA

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Thailand

Agot

N/

05 Oct 2006 at 07:59 - 77

Ever been to Elite misson? I've there with several charactor. Its turn out that those place kinda hard to enjoy because of people not really co-op well.
And this article remind me of the elite misson. Waiting to get in the line.People rage quit at the time when they just get their first 15% DP.
Not kinda my place really. Thanks for the info and I wont step in HA for awhile.

Kabale

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

UK

Portrayors of Valour [pV]

05 Oct 2006 at 09:51 - 78

Quote:

I understand that HA became not welcoming for new players at some time, I can't really place a date for that

It's always been like that, except for the first 3-4 months of Guild Wars.

I think it's worth saying again really... If you want to end up high ranked, you really do have to grind for it. This means:

- Dealing with cocky asshats that think they know everything
- Dealing with other players that don't know anything
- Spending a LOT of hours doing it
- Idle time, hanging around waiting for groups (unless you create your own)

The only difference I can see between the way it is now and how it was back when I gained my ranks is the fact that there are less effective holding builds and therefore it's even more of a grind. The attitudes you come across, both from higher ranked players and people your rank, have always been like this is HA, although it wouldn't surprise me if they got worse in the last few months.

Granted, some people think it's Anet's fault for having the rank/fame/emote system to begin with, but hey, that's the way it is. Deal with it or don't let it bother you tbh.

gr3g

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

05 Oct 2006 at 10:21 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Man Bourbon

So why does Europe always have favor? [...] [A]re the Europeans just better?

In my opinion that's as close as one can get to the truth. I've puged with Americans and Europeans, and the Europeans tend to be more focused, more willing to cooperate, more willing to win, and usually better at English than the Americans. Balanced pugs recruiting in local chat are next to unheard of these days Stateside, but it's commonplace on European servers.

As far as rank elitism goes, Eu and Am are about equal. However, the PvP/PvE ratio on Eu servers is much higher than on Am servers, so the absolute number of HA players from Eu might be larger. I think a new HA player might have an higher chance finding groups in Eu.

Thallandor

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Singapore

Seers of Serpents [SoS]

R/

05 Oct 2006 at 10:57 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

What makes me laugh is that the HA/Fame system has been so corrupted by exploits/over-poweredness and yet some people still use fame as the measuring tape for their e-penis.

QFT, personally i will never take a player who uses PvP titles/emotes for a PuG in PvE, hencies are often reliable than them.