^good point on that one.
I wonder if there will be any useful A/N combos... like the paragon hunting assassin
"Go For The Eyes!" - Nightfall's Most Powerful Skill
Horseman Of War
Zinger314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseman Of War
I wonder if there will be any useful A/N combos... like the paragon hunting assassin
Uh...no. This build doesn't make Assassins mor euseful.
The only reason I'd use an Assassin in this build would be for Dark Aposthay.
The only reason I'd use an Assassin in this build would be for Dark Aposthay.
Zinger314
Just a note: I'm writing a version 2 of the guide which will include some of the suggestions posted.
I'll release the guide after Nightfall releases to see if "GftE" and/or the build gets nerfed. (as I said, unlikely)
I'll also be posting a list of complementary builds for each profession, which will best benefit the core build. Since many players will be completely reliant on Heroes for Nightfall, those builds will helo you effectively solo Nightfall.
Since I won't post those builds until after release, if you want to get a head start, feel free to PM me asking for a profession's build.
I'll release the guide after Nightfall releases to see if "GftE" and/or the build gets nerfed. (as I said, unlikely)
I'll also be posting a list of complementary builds for each profession, which will best benefit the core build. Since many players will be completely reliant on Heroes for Nightfall, those builds will helo you effectively solo Nightfall.
Since I won't post those builds until after release, if you want to get a head start, feel free to PM me asking for a profession's build.
Mouse at Large
Here comes Stoneflesh Aura....... 
Align
Couldn't you counter this as easily as any melee-oriented build?
SpeedyKQ
If you're hitting multiple targets with your scythe, does it increase the crit chances for all of them or only the first?
Count to Potato
Echo "go for the eyes" on two paragons and your fine
Zinger314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count to Potato
Echo "go for the eyes" on two paragons and your fine
...and waste an Elite?
llsektorll
nice analysis of PvE.... but if you consider its usage in PvP expect TONS of more Ranger Spikes
PanGammon
I am going to love trying this out. Thanks for sharing..............
Doomlord_Slayermann
Shouldn't this be in the builds section somewhere instead of General Discussion?
Anyways, PvE difficulty is already a joke with very few exceptions, so I doubt that GftE will get nerfed from its infuence on that section of the game. It WILL get nerfed (I hope) at least a decent bit for the implications it has in PvP. Keep in mind though that any character with 16 in his/her weapon attribute has a good chance of making a critical already, and that critical hits are not the most painful thing in the game persay.
Anyways, PvE difficulty is already a joke with very few exceptions, so I doubt that GftE will get nerfed from its infuence on that section of the game. It WILL get nerfed (I hope) at least a decent bit for the implications it has in PvP. Keep in mind though that any character with 16 in his/her weapon attribute has a good chance of making a critical already, and that critical hits are not the most painful thing in the game persay.
Cherno
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomlord_Slayermann
Anyways, PvE difficulty is already a joke with very few exceptions, so I doubt that GftE will get nerfed from its infuence on that section of the game.
You're right, they never nerf skills because of their usefulness in PvE, just PvP 
Doomlord_Slayermann
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherno
You're right, they never nerf skills because of their usefulness in PvE, just PvP
If GftE need a nerf for PvE, so do most of the damage sources in the game.
If GftE need a nerf for PvE, so do most of the damage sources in the game.
Carth`
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherno
You're right, they never nerf skills because of their usefulness in PvE, just PvP
Spirit Bond 
Spirit Bond
Bankai
That was nerfed because of PvP.
Nikki Moonlight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankai
That was nerfed because of PvP.
were you oblivious to the Spirit bond farming build? it could tank an infinite amount if it wanted. the amount of hits limitation would still be effective in PvP (as far as i see it..)
Former Ruling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankai
That was nerfed because of PvP.
That was in No Way a nerf based on PvP...
The original phrase should be: "Skills are never changed based on how good they are in PvE, except for Farming"
Skills arent changed for PvE unless they are skills used in extreme case farming builds. Like Protective Bond.
The original phrase should be: "Skills are never changed based on how good they are in PvE, except for Farming"
Skills arent changed for PvE unless they are skills used in extreme case farming builds. Like Protective Bond.
Cherno
Stop stop, don't let the thread get derailed. I was being facecious in my reply, there are plenty of other pve v pvp nerfed skills threads out there for us to continue in.
Viruzzz
introducing the new anti-eyeway monk.
Mo/W with balanced stance. omg no criticals
Mo/W with balanced stance. omg no criticals
Zinger314
Hey...who bumped this? 
Anyways, I'm surprised that GTFE was untouched. It still works as stated on the OP.
Anyways, I'm surprised that GTFE was untouched. It still works as stated on the OP.
Doomlord_Slayermann
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Hey...who bumped this?
Anyways, I'm surprised that GTFE was untouched. It still works as stated on the OP. Yes, but just like most Paragon buffs it requires attacks that hit to do anything. There is not very much melee hate (I suppose "Warrior hate" isn't really the right term anymore) in PvE, so it seems like an indomitable force in many instances. PvP is in no way lacking the proper shutdown to keep this skill balanced, but such combos as a Minion Master + GftE are obviously going to rip most PvE content a new one.
Guess what? There is already no shortage of ways to rip PvE a new one. There is no way to make enemies as tough in PvE as they will be in PvP where intelligence is concerned, so the melee hate will probably never be heavy enough to shut anything down. PvE is easy to the point that it is rare for a certain type of damage becomes so overpowered that it actually needs a nerf. GftE is powerful, to be sure, but I doubt it should be considered overpowered in PvE.
Anyways, I'm surprised that GTFE was untouched. It still works as stated on the OP. Yes, but just like most Paragon buffs it requires attacks that hit to do anything. There is not very much melee hate (I suppose "Warrior hate" isn't really the right term anymore) in PvE, so it seems like an indomitable force in many instances. PvP is in no way lacking the proper shutdown to keep this skill balanced, but such combos as a Minion Master + GftE are obviously going to rip most PvE content a new one.
Guess what? There is already no shortage of ways to rip PvE a new one. There is no way to make enemies as tough in PvE as they will be in PvP where intelligence is concerned, so the melee hate will probably never be heavy enough to shut anything down. PvE is easy to the point that it is rare for a certain type of damage becomes so overpowered that it actually needs a nerf. GftE is powerful, to be sure, but I doubt it should be considered overpowered in PvE.
Alleji
So, is GFTE breaking the metagame yet?
Tainek
GFTE is not unbalanced in anyways, its a nice skill, but a blind on that paragon will slow his adrenal gain, and without him building adrenaline, you practially shutdown one character, and weaken others.
and in the case of the OP with multiple characters running it, you split
and in the case of the OP with multiple characters running it, you split
Akhilleus
in pve...r/p with barrage + "go for the eyes."
End of Discussion.
End of Discussion.
Lordhelmos
If you want to see a metagame break just look at rampage as one.
furbat
Seeing as this ability can be used every 3-4 seconds or so... why would you run more than 2? Does it stack or something? Are you going to coordinate 4 people using the ability every second?
TehTpyoKing
I'm currently running the build from the original post with my PVE group (that is, me and my heroes) and it works pretty well. I'm playing the dervish myself and i have Morgahn and Margrid running the P/W and R/P.
My only complaints are as follows:
Even as much as we spam GFTE and stuff, its hard (albeit not impossible) to keep up a 5 second aggressive refrain on the dervish and ranger.
morgahn has no trouble of it because he has leadership and his lasts about 21 seconds (so in otherwords, forever)
Another beef is that morgahn doesnt seem to want to put up blazing finale on anyone but himself, which is unfortunate because it would be easy to maintain it on 2 people, and its possible to do so on 3.
Otherwise the build is working nicely. Since NF i had been running my group really caster heavy and forcing olias to use blood rit, now i may be able to run a little lighter on the casters o_-
My only complaints are as follows:
Even as much as we spam GFTE and stuff, its hard (albeit not impossible) to keep up a 5 second aggressive refrain on the dervish and ranger.
morgahn has no trouble of it because he has leadership and his lasts about 21 seconds (so in otherwords, forever)
Another beef is that morgahn doesnt seem to want to put up blazing finale on anyone but himself, which is unfortunate because it would be easy to maintain it on 2 people, and its possible to do so on 3.
Otherwise the build is working nicely. Since NF i had been running my group really caster heavy and forcing olias to use blood rit, now i may be able to run a little lighter on the casters o_-
Zinger314
Right, Aggressive Refrain has to be removed from the build. Obviously the OP was before the NF release.
JR
Most powerfull Paragon skills? Energizing Finale, shortly followed by "Incoming!".
"Go for the Eyes!" is good energy management, as it is a spammable shout at just four Adrenaline. It's effect is quite nice, but nothing to write home about.
"Go for the Eyes!" is good energy management, as it is a spammable shout at just four Adrenaline. It's effect is quite nice, but nothing to write home about.
dansamy
Zinger, now that release is here, will you be updating the build? Including the build string would be a nice addition so that players can easily load it to their heroes.
TehTpyoKing
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR-
Most powerfull Paragon skills? Energizing Finale, shortly followed by "Incoming!".
"Go for the Eyes!" is good energy management, as it is a spammable shout at just four Adrenaline. It's effect is quite nice, but nothing to write home about. Energizing finale goes fantastic with this build. I'm running it on my dervish and I completely UNLOAD the chilling victories and etc.
Incoming! is a great skill but I give the 1 up to GFTE on that one because of the spammability of it, sometimes the best skill isnt the one that has the greatest effect, but the one you can use the most often. Otherwise skills like quick shot would appear to suck thoroughly, and incoming is an elite, you could even use it in conjunction with gfte. gfte is a fantstic skill for a non elite.
You can see this kind of thinking play out in games like Magic the Gathering where some of the rarest best cards are very basic low energy cost cards that completely rework the entire strategy of the deck.
"Go for the Eyes!" is good energy management, as it is a spammable shout at just four Adrenaline. It's effect is quite nice, but nothing to write home about. Energizing finale goes fantastic with this build. I'm running it on my dervish and I completely UNLOAD the chilling victories and etc.
Incoming! is a great skill but I give the 1 up to GFTE on that one because of the spammability of it, sometimes the best skill isnt the one that has the greatest effect, but the one you can use the most often. Otherwise skills like quick shot would appear to suck thoroughly, and incoming is an elite, you could even use it in conjunction with gfte. gfte is a fantstic skill for a non elite.
You can see this kind of thinking play out in games like Magic the Gathering where some of the rarest best cards are very basic low energy cost cards that completely rework the entire strategy of the deck.