Hero Discrimination

People think that Heroes will end the PuG necessity for rarer classes, such as Monks and Minion Masters, and will also help alleviate the PuG mentality. Heh.



Sample Scenario:

*Me (Necromancer) sets up group with a Paragon Hero, a Dervish Hero, and a Ranger Hero (Guess why?)*

Me: "Need 1 player + 3 Heroes to complete party!"

*W/Mo immediately joins with Warrior Hero, another Warrior Hero, and an Assassin Hero*

W/Mo: "lol dervish"

Me: "Yes. He's quite effective. Could you swap out some of your heroes for Monk heroes?

W/Mo: "no u"

Me: "My Hero composition is more suited for damage rather than your team of redundant Warriors."

W/Mo: "lol dervish"
W/Mo: "lol dervish"
W/Mo: "lol dervish"
W/Mo: "lol dervish"
W/Mo: "lol dervish"
W/Mo: "lol dervish"
W/Mo: "lol dervish"
W/Mo: "lol dervish"
W/Mo: "lol dervish"
W/Mo: "lol dervish"

Me: "..."

W/Mo: "r u MM nec"

Me: "No, my build is designed to support my 3 Heroes with Dark Fury and Wells."

W/Mo: "f u noob"

*W/Mo leaves party*

Me: "Need 1 player + 3 Heroes to complete party! Must be willing to bring a Monk Hero!"

*No response.*



Can anyone else see that happening? Cookie-Cutter mentality isn't dead.

(And for the record, I intend to use the Warrior, the Dervish, the Monk, and another Monk (or Paragon, if there is only 1 Monk) Henchmen. Who needs grouping when there is discrimination?)

Since you have a specific niche for all your Heroes, yeah, it will be harder for you to find groups (or not, actually, since you'll be henching it).

I plan on only using Heros in PUGS to fill in gaps. Ideally, I will do missions with full groups of Humans, and do Quests with Heroes and Henchies.

That's just the way I've been playing Guild Wars, and not any sort of recommendation how others should do it. I admit, my policy has not always been the best, but man, when you do find that perfect PUG, a group that just clicks, it's all worth it.

Exactly I don't spend all my time playing guild wars and the rest on the fourms. But yeah I don't think it will be a problem with Heroes. You shouldn't say you're looking for one other player, there is no point in that when there could be a monk looking for a group ect.

I thought there was only 1 hero of each class?

And I'll be happy to bring my monk hero And I think many others will too.

Its perfect for my wife and I. The two of us + six heros - annoying knuckleheads = Joy and happiness. Thank you anet.

Ya I could get one of my buddies to play with me in Nightfall then I'll never need another PuG member again.

O ya this might be slightly off-topic but I am trying to stop the Dervish Noob Wave by releasing: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10053402

What is this, pre-emptive griping? Can't you at least wait until the game is released before posting your highly original comment about wammos?

Pretty sure that most people willing to tolerate any puggers at all will find plenty of like-minded people with which to fill all the pug slots with real people instead of Heros. Hence on that basis this Hero issue is moot in my view. That is, at least for the first month or two until everyone has beaten the game already.

After that, sure players aren't going to take Heros they don't want, but why should they? They shouldn't.

If that's a problem, one can always make his own party with like-minded smart or dumb players & Heros, whichever the case my be (depending on who's Hero choices were stupid: inviter or invitee.)

Just bring a monk hero. It is best if both of you just bring a monk, its called fairness and stuff. If you refuse to bring monk your being selfish.

To the OP, to solve your problem i suggest the following:

1) Find a RL friend who lives near you who you know every well and share the same passion as you.

2) Buy Nightfall as a gift and get him/her hook.

3) Never PuG again.

I found the 1st post humorous

I doubt people will care that much about what Heroes to bring

I plan to always have a monk hero with me (unless someone else has one)

..

the issues that I see is people complaining about hero choices, beyond monk, and builds.


As long as everyone has a Rez Sig (including heroes)
- it doesnt matter too much to me

Same thing here. I'll be teaming with my wife and/or daughters for most missions. Having Heroes will certainly make doign that easier.

I have actually enjoyed PuGs in many situations; I'm not as picky or anal as some folk you see on these forums. But many activities, like mapping, will be so much easier with Heroes. Try fidning a group of Level 20s to help you map Lornar's Pass...

I do worry that the only social interaction in GW will be people spamming "WTS" and "WTB" in the major cities. As the population thins out and Heroes become more powerful, it will be increasingly difficult to find a friendly group for social gaming.

I think that's an oxymoron

Then again I usually do whatever needs doing with guildies and henchies, the hero system will rule for guilds like mine/people like me (who prefer henchies over random people who can drop etc)



I suppose if you limit yourself to a certain variety of heros you may have a harder time getting another player to adapt to your playstyle, but why would you really have to when you can just get a friend/guildmate to assist you with their heros? Perhaps we'll see "hero discrimination" as it's described in this thread, but I don't really think it will be a common problem for most people...

I dunno about it all worth it, but when I do get a perfect pug and we steamroll things, I am pleased...

Then the next mission the wammo aggros everything and their mom, and us heros die ignominously. :/

Same here, PuG over heroes just for the fact sometimes you get a PuG that knows the in and out of the mission and then the mission tends to fly by + you cant talk to heroes when you are laying face down in the grass waiting for a rez

You would actually pug with X/Mo who casts mending and uses healing breeze when he falls below 90% health over your heroes that you can give not incredibly retarded builds.

As a Warrior I will be more than happy to bring my two Monk Hero’s. If the other guy drops, err7s, then I will still have my monks. Furthermore if the other guy does not like my Monk builds then screw him.

I intend to have one Zealots Fire + Heal Monk and one anti conditions Protection Monk. This duo build made my party virtually unstoppable during the PvE Beta, so I intend to do the same build for the full release. For my third hero option I can always go with Jin as a Barrage + Interrupt Ranger unless something shows up better.

My situation and sentiments exactly. We're really looking forward to NF!

no wammos use 'no u'

only owners like m3. i doubt people will be that stupid however.

I was just thinking about this today. Unless I'm playing with guildies or a good friend, I will not feel safe playing with other people's heroes. Henchies are different in that after playing with them for so long, I know exactly what they will do and when. On the other hand, Joe Pug's uber Whammo Hero would be something totally strange to me, which I don't like at all. AI is only useful if you know how to manipulate it.

It would be nice if only the leader has the ability to add heroes to the group, but being a monk, I am rarely on the top of the roster. This worries me greatly.

God talk about irony so you saying there is going to be Discrimination against heros yet you do the same for W/Mo.

I can't wait for the Hero option at least then I don't have to play with Idiots while playing with my W/Mo you think their above me. The cookie cutter mentality is players like you saying every W/Mo is a complete jerk.

And who cares about PUGS or whatever that means with this you have your own party members need to fill in the gaps? grab a hench you can still control them. I personaly don't mind playing with other players though about 60% are very unrealiable. At least this way it's my fault if I lose the mission or quest not some other player.

I was expecting a comment like Guild wars is now a Single player game more than anything else than something like this. Yes a very stuck up and very Ironic post indeed.

Well instead of moaning about other people not having a monk.

Why dont YOU bring a monk?

Just for the record, I will gladly join anyone who says they have a good Hero Plan... Heros are here for our versatility-

Just because ive beaten both chapters with multiple characters and have almost 2000 game hours, 150k balthazar faction, and Friend of Luxon title, I dont know everything. If anything I must obviously know a little bit about teamwork and adaptability.

But hey if that wammo joined my party and started dropping the N bomb, id kick him before he had a chance to quit.

150K Balthazar Faction and Friend of the luxons title, O_o wow....


Bud the best thing for you to do is take a monk instead of asking other people to take them, if you dont do something you cant expect others to do it for you.

ok i lied im only at 130k-140k... still a junkie tho for sure.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the example W/Mo is indeed, a jerk.

No Kidding, why is it a W/mo why not a Necromancer or any other class? this is a very stupid and Ironic post, not only do you say that Heros will for some reason be Discriminated against and will ruin the game but then you go and use a W/Mo as an example of a jerk so your discriminating.

I'll give an example of how it comes across.

"ok today i'll talk about discrimination, first off im going to talk about W/Mo's there all noobs and are little kids and jerks who always discriminate other players GOD I HATE THEM!...ahem yes so discremention is very bad."

The moral of this story is think before you type

LOL ^^ owned.

Hero Discrimination? Are you serious? You are worried about having to get along with other peoples customized henchies and other people not wanting to join you because of it?
Wow.
You either play with a lot of really intolerable people or only play with farm maniacs.
So a person wont want to join you because you have a D/Mo hero? Probably that person wont join if they see any other class they dont agree with (Mo/E for example). So... who cares?
The fact that we can all bring 3 zombies to do our bidding is exciting. That some people wont like the way your zombies play is going to happen, just like they wont like what other non-zombie players will take as their build.
Mucho ado about nothing imo.

I think the wammo comment is justified. Not every wammo is a jerk, but the stereotype is there.
Then again, elitist monks who expect people to kiss their ass are no different... nor is the over aggro ranger, or the noob MM who doesnt know how to manage his minions. Every single person here has rejected an assassin from joining their party without even a second thought, and if you say you havent... then you havent led any groups or are just a liar.

Just like in real life, there are predjudices and stereotypes in guildwars some based off of justified reasons, however to give the guy a hard time for using W/Mo as his example is just rediculous. We all understand the point hes making lets not turn this into a troll thread, since its about something that will no doubt come into play - Id say it was meant humorously, and if people are getting all bent out of shape about it, they really need to stop trying to make it a bigger deal than it is.

Hero Discrimination will in fact be something that people will argue about, no matter what we say from up here on our elite forum perches.

True enough but thats what this hero option is for so if you don't want to take the risk of bad players you can bring your own. If you stereo type players you are just plain arogant same with anything you stereotype really, I havn't played much of Factions so I can't really say I have come across many Assasins yet, my experiance hasn't been very good but then again I could the same about the other classes people have played.

Trolling or not it's still annoying when some one stereotypes your class as the jerk class certainly when they are talking about discrimination, to be honest I really don't see how players can discriminate agasint your hero's you'll only proberly get one of each class just the basic ones to more than likely, what can they say "anyone with a Warrior hero is a noob" or "those warrior hero's are such noobs can't do anything right" if you remeber these are all controlled by the player so it's their fault anyway

I know for a fact that i'll be playing these classes well and not to sound cocky but it's beacuse i'll be playing them. There are no proberlems if a player discreminates against a hero he's an idiot as their his/her characters.

If you want the best of both worlds eg players and Hero's then the only issue is you could not only have a bad warrior but a bad monk, ele and necro. If so then why do you want to join people in PvE help a new player out with your heros make friends that way and play threw the game with them.

This is only the issue but that's about it anyone who discrimnates against heros is an idiot simple as that same for somone who doesn't let Assasins into their groups or Rangers. The way I see it is when this Hero system comes out i'll play on my own the hero's may possibly ineract in the cutscenes I know which one should have what build to suit a paticular situation and as long as you know how the classes work which I do then there is no point having other players with me.

Nah, it's not an oxymoron because it doesn't make sense. An oxymoron is something that doesn't APPEAR to make sense, but actually does. For instance, "alone together" is an oxymoron, because it doesn't seem like with two people, you could be alone. However, if being "alone" refers to two people together, then it makes sense. Thus, oxymoron.

A perfect PuG, however, is not an oxymoron, because there is absolutely NO WAY it can make sense.

On-topic: I already predicted the hero discrimination, but like people have already said, I intend to have a monk hero with me the majority of the time. Also, I don't really care what other people bring so long as the basic roles of tank, damage, and healing are filled. So it won't be a problem for me.

Yea remember Heroes steal your drops just like henchmen do. So even though they are your heroes the gold is still split up and you don't get the heroes gold... Nor any drops that would be for your heroes. So they are not ideal really. Its just that they will be good henchmen. Like when your doing titan quests and can't fill a party. that kind of thing... Heroes will be very helpful on that kind of thing.

*shrugs*
Heroes will bring a lot of discussion into PUGing. You will allways have to deal with that one person that insists on bringing 3 Heroes. Same goes to very bad skill layouts or just piss poor hero controlling via the Flags.
I'll simply stick to the following:

1-2 Players - Go full Hero/Henchie
>2 Players - Full Playerteam with no Hero/Henchie

This will save me from the flood of badly played heroes.

/edit:
Wa/Mo deserve to be picked on. There really is not one single good reason to go Wa/Mo if you know how to play properly and don't play in a team of total morons. At best, the Wa/Mo will only use his Warrior Skills making him a Wa. At worst he WILL use stuff from his monk secondary which by all means - sucks big time outside of farming or special niche builds for certain areas.

Wammo isn't cookie cutter its stupid and thus we apply anyone playing a wammo is also stupid... unless somehow forced against your will you had to use monk secondary on your warrior.

Amen to the post above me.

If W/Mo's have no use then why are they allways in groups?

and W/Mo's are crap in teams? oh now come on thats just silly W/Mo are amazing team players ever heard of tanking? W/Mo is brillant for that, I was doing the second mission on factions the one with all the star monsters...god I hate that level...anyway me and my team had to kill all these things tried to pull em nothing would budge, so only one thing left I run in heal myself like mad while the rest of the characters either blast the star things to timbukto and back or help me by healing me.

In the end it was down to me with about three maybe four of these things on me all attacking me with spells I was just constantly using "whatch yourself!" healing hands, Healing breeze and healing sig oh and of course some attack spells and yes we managed to take em all down...I don't see how say a R/Mo could do that nor could I see a W/Me do that as eventually they would of ran out of healing options, yes the W/Me would be a good tank for certain situations say if you had two monk and maybe a Ritualist then he would be great maybe even surpass the W/Mo as the W/Me can have illusionary weaponary.

The cookie cutter mentality is that W/Mo's are crap beacuse some people don't know how to tank, can't blame them tho where does it say on traninning island "this is how you tank" also tanking is very difficult on GW as there is no way you can make an enemy face you like you can on WoW. I learned how to tank from WoW to be honest, a tank should be keeping the warriors off the spell casters thats about it, the Assasin should cast return on the monk then shadowalk to the spell caster slash him to bits wait until he is about 20% left teleport back to monk use healing sig (great survial tech) all the stuck up other players should be either healing or nuking with a few good damage spells eg degen slow etc

To all people who have W/Mo's or considering I would highly recomend playing one I've played almost every class apart from Rit and W/Mo is my fav the A/W then R/W yes I prefer melee characters so sue me

I still don't see how there is going to be Discrimination against heros everyone seems to just say "yup defintly going to be Discrimination..." ok and why will there be? no one has said why and the reason the OP said wouldn't happen anyway as you only have one of each so what else is there? the whole purpose of these Heros is so you can play on your own depend on your own skills to complete the mission.

The only hero that will get discremanted agasint will be the warrior as all the spellcaster will get on their high hourse and think the warrior is crap can't have him their for noobs and their stupid, lets just hope the warrior does have skills that can make enemies turn on him/her so they can tank properly at least that way I can show you how to really tank. Or even better buy or download a free trial of WoW go on Steamweedle carsel dist (think I spelt that right ) and I can show you how I tank on that look for me my name is Imoenak.

Tanking is not about builds, tanking is about positioning, pulling and careful control of aggro. If your monk can't keep a warrior alive - ditch him and get a not sucking one as even the Henchmen can keep a warrior alive.

Do i really have to comment on those? :/
Woot! I have healing hand... wait, shattered.
Woot! I have healing bre... shattered.
Woot! Healing hands again... wait, everyone is dead -.-

I'm probably going to make a perfect pair of monk heroes with an interrupter throw in the third spot, and a trio of brutally efficient, huge DPS melee heroes. Maybe even a 3 hero ranged squad too. That way I'll be able to fit in with practically everyone. Discrimination FLT.

Seriously, screw those PuGs, in Nightfall, the only real players that should be on your team are Guildies and Alliancies. Why else do you have such excellent control over your personalized Heros.

One thing about working with other peoples hero's is that you have to hope that they can:

a. Build a decent skill bar/attribute distribution for their hero
b. Equip their hero properly
c. Have their hero lvld up

Also people that have played the various classes will have an advantage over those who have stuck to one or two. Because of this I've started to play mes and monk just so I can get a feel for how they operate. During the preview event I was a bit lost as to how to skill bar for my monk and it showed. During actual NF you'll find out pretty quick if the other person's hero's are useless. I'm not sure how this will be avoided when forming a group, other than endlessly asking for other peoples skill bars on their heros.