Who should carry the rez

I simply don't understand why people's skillbars are so crowded on their PvE monks. The single most skill-packed option you can build is a boon prot, and even then running Signet of Devotion + Inspired Hex + Contemplation of Purity is a luxury, not a necessity.

(CoP is the lynchpin here. If you need CoP in a PvE environment then you're in one of those groups everyone keeps invoking that has deeper issues.)

In fact, there are no non-farming builds for PvE whose bar is so crowded that they can't drop a slot for a res.

versus
For PuGs, the former is correct. For guild teams or closely prefabricated builds, the latter is... Still wrong. That is, Rebirth on the monk under those circumstances may be sub-optimal, but not by a hell of a lot (not enough to warrant an 'idiot' tag, anyway!).

I have spoken. Bow before Zod!

Another important point is that Rebirth is a lot less effective in Cantha than Tyria. Factions mobs are a lot more mobile, so those retreat situations are much less common... Oh, and they tend to detect Rebirth attempts and hunt you down.

Finally... Flesh of my Flesh. Seriously. If you have access to it (or if you're spending your secondary on just a hard res anyway) then bring it along and make yourself the official fast resser.

The point of my remark was to show how retarded the comment was. Guess my subtle remarks tend to go over most people's heads.

I would never expect a monk to have a rez, of any type, at any time.

Everyone else should have at least a signet, always, x/Mo's should have rez chant or rebirth in place of signet in PvE.

Every plan is good, until the first arrow flies.The best laid plans of mice and men. Not as pretty as the other quotes(where are they from by the way?), but they still make my point. Rebirth is the most popular of the resses, especially the teleport part. A monk should carry this. I would say at least half the team should carry a sig, just in case something should get the monk.
But before you go all "grab the torches and pitchforks" on me, let me say this: A monk should carry a res because no matter how hard you try, eventually something will go horribly wrong. And then you'll be wishing you had that res. No matter how good your group is, something could go against you that you are unprepared for. So don't go bashing people for being cautious(especially when playing with pugs). I'm not going to say which res is best, I'm just saying its best to carry one.
But thats just my two cents.

i like this. it makes sense.

Guildwars is full of players who in pubs who...
a) believe all monks can out heal all mobs
b) believe all battles are won by force
c) believe that planing before any encounter is bad
d) believe that running is a tabo.

Now im not saying everyone, just the majority that fill pubs. im my life i've had maybe 100 pubs in GW which just knew how to play well, thousands more who could not.

^ Pubs = PuGs (Pick up groups) ??

Well, considering this is my first forum post, I figured I would post it on something I think worthwhile in pve.

PVE: Everyone brings a res (signet in some situations even if /mo [raisu, tahnnakai, etc] where bosses are plentiful. And a hard res [chant, rebirth, et al] where they are not and there is more time to spare such as all tyria missions, and the back way in eternal grove...)
Seriously. Everyone who plays in PVE has played with henchmen at some point or another. Now the way I'm reading it so far upon this thread, is that it's pretty much 50/50 on whether bringing res or not. How many of you wouldn't have completed missions or quests if henchmen didn't bring a res of any sort. Or how many would people be screaming at Anet WTF WHY DIDN'T the henchmen rez me?!?!?! At the very least, I think if what you expect from the hench, you should expect from yourself. If you don't care about ressing other party members, why should they care about ressing you. Which is where this whole conversation started from.

PVP: Everybody except a monk should bring a res. Monks in my opinion as my favourite class playing, these are my observations:
GvG: I've only monked twice in GvG situations... my very first time being against Te so not pleasant for me. Second time one of our dmg dealers didn't set attribs correctly, but seeing the high level of play I can understand why GvG monks don't bring a res.
HA:
8v8: monk bringing res, 3 backlines, (I've played all main 3 monk backlines, WoH/HP, Sb/infuse, RC. And each time I've always brought a res, with the team doing considerably well. Never winning/holding, but enough for a few fame per night.
6v6: Extra healing/port is required in 6v6 so I can understand the res sig being dropped out in HA here.
RA: Unless you're a good healer I expect you to bring a res. Sadly enough noone does.
TA: See above, except in a team way... you need to tell the teammates to bring a res.
AB: Res not needed. No death penalty... only purpose of a res, seems to be so you and your teammates don't get seperated.

In pve random pugs or random arena, everyone take a rez of some type (usually a sig in randoms). In an organized group it depends on the team build. In AB never bring one unless your team build requires it for some reason but thats very rare...

Thats the best answer I see.

i farm a crapload.. and i three man alot.. as a monk i bring rebirth in my build... so do my farming buddies... and we all bring rebirth..

here is why:

YOUR WAY:Lets say tanking monk dies... he is in the middle of aggro.. you run up to rez him with your rez sig... he comes up and dies instantly from the 20 some odd baddies around him.. either way you are out a rez sig and are totally screwed...

EVERY FARMER AND THEIR MOMS WAY: The tanking monk goes down.. the partner runs away from aggro.. de aggros the aggro.. then procedes to use rebirth on the fallen tank.. the tank is teleported out of the massive pile of aggro and all is fine.... yay..

oh and also.. as a healing monk.. in the rare occasion my party craps out..and then im the only one left alive. I HAVE REBIRTH.. I BAIL.. . i run back in and rebirth everyone out of aggro... we all end up alive.. and continue on to complete the mission..

there are no such things as bad skills.. only bad players




........ya you should never say anything totally or absolutly sucks.. because you make your self look like an ass when you assume... just some freindly advice..

just like you assumed he was talking about farming groups, when he was clearly talking in context about pve 8 man groups?

or did you just ignore the context so you could call someone an ass?

Not exactly the best english around but nevertheless true, where skills are concerned there is no absolute best way to do anything.

Concerning the presence of resurrection skills on party members.

In pvp :

Winning is the key and fast resurrection is the backup key in case of a slip up and should thus be carried on every party member bar the monks who have other things to focus on. If there comes a time when the monks are the only one left rest assured they won't be given the time to resurrect anyway.

I know most people only consider resurrection signet to have a place in pvp but bear in mind that a) some environments or situation make hard resurrection spells a possibility (GvG comes to mind) and b) Flesh of my Flesh for example is behaving in about the same way as an infuse would and as such remains a possible choice (yes I know that some people will not consider it as optimal still I've seen victories decided in RA-TA-HA-GvG because the winning team had a hard resurrection skill available, it might not be optimal but if it gives you the win it is good enough in my book)

In pve :

Keeping the team alive to complete the objectives you have fixed yourselves is the key. Wheather this is achieved by having a team who knows how to aggro, kite, retreat, ... or by a team who brought the proper skills to allow itself to rebuild in case of incidents doesn't matter.

As such always plan for the kind of team you will be participating in and the kind of area you will be exploring.

If you know the participants and the area well and are confident no resurrection skills will be needed on your character then by all means don't take any, I'm pretty confident you have a use for that extra slot.

If you know the participants well but not the area and nobody on your team is really familiar with it then take a resurrection skill, chances are there will come a point where you will fight more mobs than you can deal with due to unexpected patrol appearances, never let it be said that not being ready for anything that could come is the optimal choice.

If you don't know your team's participants bring a resurrection skill, don't fail a mission/quest/... because you didn't plan for the fact your team would behave in a destructive way.

Concerning rebirth I believe the skill is a wonderful complement to a necrotic transversal and a great extracting mechanism when you need to get back those members who died in the middle of the monster pack (don't pretend it doesn't happen because you'll jinx yourself by doing so )

As a conclusion I'd just say to always prepare for the worst, its the best way to have it better.

Monks bringing rebirth is kinda silly to res in battle... ok you can res afterwards but why not that skillslot for a skill to heal?

First choice: Necro; why? for the soul reaping of course.
Rebirth drains your energy but that SR will fill it up quick enuff...
Second choice: Me/Mo; Mantra of Recall; cast it before you rebirth
Very bad choice E/Mo with rebirth... all that energy gone to waste.
Other possibilities: you do take a rebirth for your monk but require a Necro to BiP or BR you...

Monks better take Resurrection Chant or Restore Life since they won't be ressing in battle anyways. just my two cents

In PvE: Everyone should have one. Rebirth if /Mo, Res Sig if non-/Mo or in a place with lots of bosses.

In PvP: Everyone but the Monks should have a Res Sig, Glyph Sac + Res Chant, or FC Res.

PvE: monks bring a non-draining res, everyone else bring Rebirth or Res sig
PvP: everyone except monks bring a sig, unless you can cast faster like an ele or mesmer, but even then, I prefer being resurrected at full health

Sorry, but your duck was quacking like a crowbar. You know, as in "if it looks like a crowbar, and is subtle as a crowbar..."
...Well, duh? Lots of groups suck. I'm in one of them on average every couple of days. That's why I run builds that are optimised to compensate for idiots, and not ones that assume every single aspect of my teammates play is polished and perfected.

Not necessary, focus swap before you cast rebirth. Switch back and you're good to go.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

I don't assume my team mates are going to be top notch players capable of matching wits with the top 5 guilds in all aspects of the game. There is a very large middleground between absolutely horrible at the game and those players. I assume my team isn't at the bottom of the skill level in playing the game and adjust my build to suit that, without a res (when I'm monking).

I've said often (bragging more like it) that I enjoy a good challange as a monk, however there's a difference between a team taking a lot of pressure and a team you could swear were trying their best to party wipe. I'd rather not monk for the latter where there's going to be a long, tedious zerg to complete whatever it is we're aiming for and multiple uses of that rebirth skill if I brought it along. I'd say the team could stand to learn a bit more about the game if that res skill is the difference between success or failure, and I'm no teacher.

Alrighty then, I'll give my 2 cents. Since I only play PvE then I'm speaking from that perspective. There is no 1 perfect way to play. Everyone has their own styles that they've come to play and gotten good with. However, no matter how good you are or how good you think you are, everyone should bring a rez. Personally, no matter the character I play (all have monk secondary) I bring rebirth. Even if you are captain kickass and can dominate all before you, you simply don't know how good/bad/stupid your PUG team will be and if they do something dumb and get killed then your only alternative to finish mission/quest is to solo it (good luck with that) if you didn't bring a rez.

Occasionally I have been a bonehead and didn't retreat when I should've and the team failed because the guy who ran away didn't have a rez. However, there have been so many times where I've saved the team because I was smart and retreated and then rebirthed everyone back.

So then comes my next point. I'm not one to tell someone how to play their character or what build/skills to use, but everyone should carry a rez. I don't care if you think your super leet pwned retard build "requires" that 8th slot. ALWAYS bring a rez. And for those monks who say the 8th slot is better used for e-management/hex removal/...etc then find a different variation of you build to include rez damnit.....your not a god.

This one of the variations of my monk build that has served me quite well and I have gotten many compliments before.

WoH
Dwaynas Kiss
Orizon of Healing
RoF
Mend Condition
Hex Removal (any type that suits)
Vigorous Spirit (unless in heavy enchant removal area)
Rebirth

Always bring a rez cause you just don't know if or when you'll need it.

I'm very surprised to see so many monks who bring rebirth instead of for example res chant.

hahaha, don't tempt someone into listing the number of shit skills in guildwars currently.

If im monking in a pug ill generally bring rebirth, purely because i dont know the quality of the players and no matter how good i am on the day at monking, accidents happen and players bridge agro, rambo, and perform other potential wipe happy actions.

And if worst comes to worse i can bail and rebirth, simple as.
a bit of DP is better than a wipeout.

if im playing mesmer im more likely bring a res chant if im /mo for a combat res when needed. otherwise ill bring a res siggy for what ever class im running at the time.

PVP, monk, no res, everything else res sig, BUt on occasion a FC reschant, or a naomi, depending on team setups.

90% of the time, some of the PVE pug will have monk as their secondary. If you're monking, take res chant or ressurect and ask one of the /mo's to take rebirth.

Often, when an entire group dies and the monk is the only one left, the monk ran away and stopped healing. If the monk had stayed with the group and kept healing, while spamming -RUN! the group would have had a better chance of living.

There have been sooo many times I've been monking in a pug with another monk and it got hectic for a bit. I see the other monk heading for the hills and I'm alone trying to keep the group and myself alive. Of course a monk needs to stay out of the fight as much as he can, but don't give up and abandon the group. Try to make it a group retreat.

I can usually kite well enough to keep myself alive in the midst of a mob and keep healing. But- If the team wipes, I'm rarely the last one alive. --I stick with my team.If we all die, so be it.

--Here's a trick to use WoH, Dwaanas Kiss and Vigorius spirit to keep the team alive in a PVE mission/quest. Keep v. spirit on everyone in the party. The enchantment on them makes Dwaanas do extra healing. When it gets tough, Dwaana's and WoH will do huge heals at very little energy cost.--NOTE: dont use enchants around mesmers.

You said it doesn't have a res on it, which means you'll only succeed with skilled teammates. And anyone can win with skilled teammates, even an afk'er. Monking without a res is a totally different type of lack of judgement as overextending and taking too much damage. But I don't see why one is worse than the other.

----

As far as rebirth vs. other res's - rebirth is the best choice unless you think monks should be rezzing mid-battle, and IMO monks usually shouldn't be rezzing mid-battle, they should be healing.

In PvE, you can choose between two options:

1. My group has an objective, and I will bring the skills necessary to complete that objective, even if it means helping a terrible group of players through. If I'm the last person standing, I will be able to get the party rezzed, and we will still have a chance at completing our objective.

2. My group has an objective, but it is more important that the group plays correctly and does not wipe. Should they wipe, I reserve the right to stand rez-less, scold them for not retreating, and use my self-righteousness as a shining example to the group, helping them become better players. I will then port back to town, and find a different group with whom to tackle my original objective.

--------------------------------------------------------------

The most loathesome party member is the last one standing, unable to rez, but quite happy to sermonize about the party's poor playing.

If PvE is easy enough that you expect your party to survive everything, it should be easy enough that you can succeed using a seven skill build.

You made me smile today. Thanks.

Rebirth is justified because people

1.) think their uber build does not have room for Rebirth , or worse a Res Sig.

2) Monks will likely to survive when the entire team wipes.

Both are the wrong approach to PvE.


1 - there is no build, NO SKILL, nothing - that is more important than Res.
If you are a X/Mo you bring Rebirth.

2. If your wipes and the monk is the only one alive - your team decided not to retreat because you where expecting the monk to survive and Rebirth all 7 of you.

See the idiotic logic behind it?

If you retreated earlier, you only need to res 1-3 players. This way, monks are full of energy and ready to go and it takes less time to finish the mission (Rebirthing 7 players and waiting for energy regen is a waste of time).

Not only that, if one player is behind enemy lines (meaning impossible to rebirth without getting your monk attacked) - the monks 60 armor and getting pounded for 6-8 seconds is kind of useless isn't it? Your W/Mo and his stances on the other hand.....

It does not make sense Mo/ with rebirth. Your W/Mo has uber stances to protect him.

Has a higher armor

Does not need energy as much as the monk or offensive casters

He is being healed by 3 healing skills instead of 2 (remember 1 more heal skill because no Rebirth)

He can res midliners and frontliners without moving much (monks may end up in enemies aggro bubble)

etc.

So why does Monk bring Rebirth again?

Everyone should carry a rez, end of story.

Man, that's a tough question. And what it really boils down to is "what are you doing?"

If you need your healers keeping people alive at all times, then it's just a bad idea for them to carry a long cast res or Rebirth. If they're standing there trying to res you could lose the rest of the party.

But, if you're not under time constraints, then having a hard res can keep the party going for longer. Rebirth is a personal favorite of mine in this instance.

Personally, I feel that everyone that isn't healing or support should have at the very least a Res Sig. The Healer or supporter should skill for what they're doing.

[EDIT] To crimsonfilms: my PvE monk packs Rebirth because I play with PUGs a lot. Not all of them are stupid, but I find it's much better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Also, it keeps me from Resing mid fight (I have kind of a mental block on that)

Everyone should carry a rez. If there is a last man standing with no rez, then misson/quest fails.

Pretty much everybody need to carry rez sig unless you have a really good reason not to. Here are some good reasons:

- You have a monk secondary and therefore can carry rebirth.
- You're running boon prot that a rez skill will drop your power by half
- You're running thumper that a rez skill will drop your power by half

Pretty much everybody need to carry rez sig unless you have a really good reason not to. Here are some good reasons:

- You have a monk secondary and therefore can carry rebirth.
- You're running boon prot that a rez skill will drop your power by half
- You're running thumper that a rez skill will drop your power by half

If there is a last man standing, you've already failed as far as i'm concenerned :/

You don't really live that philosophy, do you? If so, remind me never to party with you.

If your party almost wipes, and the last person alive DOES have res, you would just up and leave because you've "already failed?"

@ Saphir ..so you're saying what? Don't rez them at all? I hope you don't want the monk to run up to the enemies and rebirth. IMO-The best thing to do is, while in battle and someone dies, someone (not a monk) uses a rez sig -only takes 3 seconds.

You've been playing with a bunch of sucky players if they rebirth a teammate into a group of enemies. Why would they do something like that unless they were griefers.

Edit:corrected a spelling error -hookt on fonix werkt for me!

yeah, i misread the post and assumed that it was a last monk standing w/ rebirth vs a last warrior standing w/ rebirth.

and yes, i've actually been in a few pugs where people have been that stupid and constantly rebirthing poor casters into the dead center of aggro, thinking they were doing the revived a huge favor lol

i usually monk in elite/toa areas where using a rez sig should only be an absolutely last resort

Your ideal PUG should be as so (yes, I know ideal and PUG are an oxymoron):
Monks with no res
W/Mo with Restore Life/Res Chant
R/X -> R/Mo with rebirth
Else with Res Signet to be used only the monks

Why this setup?
Monks don't have the time to res in-battle. Your typical W/Mo probably lost aggro, and is scott-free to res anyone. A ranger, unless the product of a consanguineous mating, can easily escape since they're usually out of aggro range while fighting, and can either rebirth someone into the backlines, or run away and rebirth the entire team. Res signets are your best option for res'ing the monk mid-battle. You could you vengence, but you better cover it well with other enchants.
You would expect fast-cast mesmers to have the in-battle hard res, but mesmers are already rare, and are typically Me/E fast nuke or Me/N fast SS. Also, PUG sins don't carry res since they're just food for your MM.

PvP is an entirely different situation, due to mostly wide variance. Also, the res setup won't work in the Deep or Urgoz since you're not in typical PvE situations.

/googles consanguineous. Hey, I thought it against forum rules to use a word with more than eight letters.

"Never use a complex word when a diminutive one would have sufficed." lol jk

It all depends on the build, the situation, and the team.

I used to be like Milias and carry a res no matter what. I've found that while a Res Sig is pretty much a required skill, hard res' aren't. A hard res can seriously gimp you if you're trying to battle res, and can cause a party wipe much easier than say, running away. I have a kind of formula to determine if I need a res, and what kind.

Golde Rule #0) In a Mission of any kind, everyone brings a res. Period. This is to reduce the chances of the entire party wiping except that last guy with no res. That is called defeat.

Rule #1) All Mo/, Rt/, /Mo or /Rt spellcasters or ranged (Ranger or Paragon) bring a hard-res, unless your job requires that you keep your team alive, i.e. healing or protection, and you cannot risk a 'useless' skill slot.

Rule #2) All other spellcasters or ranged bring Sig.

Rule #3) All melee bring Sig.

Rule #4) All the rules (except golden rule) can be rendered invalid, if the team as a whole decide it so. In the case of negotiations of who's bringing res, as long as the whole team agrees, there should be a battle plan that keeps the hard-res'er(s) protected, just in case.


That's basically it. It's worked so far, and we haven't been in any situations where we've said "Aw, dangit, wish so-and-so had brought a res!".

Monks should never carry a res, you let people die its either because A) They are bad and did something wrong (Ex. Frenzyhealsig) B) You suck (Ex. Healing breeze) C) You can't handle the dmg (Ex. 2 heal monks no prot at all) or D) You suck.

In a balanced build its a good idea to have 2 monks one memo with distortion / res chant, its against my religion to bring res when i monk.

Whenever I join a PUG (which is pretty rare nowadays, but much more common last year), I assume most people aren't going to listen when I tell them to retreat, so that's why I bring Rebirth.

I've completed a lot of missions just by rebirthing most of the party after a partial or near full party wipe. Most party wipes happen when people don't listen and aggro one group too closely to the patrol route of another group. I mean, sure I could just quit and find another group, but I might as well just try to salvage the situation and continue on with the mission.

One example: On Abaddon's Mouth, my party rushed into the Ether Seal chamber (the one with the 7 ether seals) and ran into the middle of it. They then mostly ignored my pings when the Mursaat Backup came from both sides. They only started running when 4 of them were dead, and in the end only the other monk and I made out out of the aggro range. I think we ended up killing one of the nearest Mursaat and rebirthed the whole group. Then proceeded to finish the mission.

If someone else brings rebirth, I definately wouldn't bring a res at all, but you can't really rely on other people in Pugs =P