I'm sure we've all, at some point played with a group that has a noob in it.
Some examples of what I am refering to:
-A player that runs off form the rest of the team, and ignores the mission objective.
-An AFK'er
-A player who rushes into a mob of creatures only to get himself killed.
-Leavers (if they left intentionally).
Usually, it is still possible to complete your objective even if you do have a noob in party. But once Nightfall is released, these noobs will also have heroes with them. Since heroes always stay with their leader, they will run of with him, stay afk with him, and rush to get themselves killed with him.
So Now, whenever you'll have a noob in your party, you will also gain several more hero noobs, and completing your objectives will be a lot harder then if you only had that sole noob.
Does anyone see any way around this, and how do you think this will affect gameplay?
EDIT: Before I wrote as an example of a noob
-Leavers (whether intentional or an error)
I did not mean that if getting an error makes someone a noob. I meant that the outcome would be the same whether or not the player left intentionally- the team would lose the player and all of his heroes.
My apologies for the misunderstading.
Noobs with Heroes
Henchman
Arduin
Heroes add up to the total of 8 party members, so if you bring 3 heroes, and another person brings 3, you would have your party together. Of course, when the other person screws things up, half of your team will be crippled. That's why I'm sure to only invite people (with their respective heroes) which I know are capable of finishing this mission etc. without failing it because of noobish behaviour. It will be even more important to carefully pick the people you play with.
Tetris L
Look at it this way: If you form a PUG with 7 people you don't know, chances are pretty high that at least ONE of them is an idiot. You can reduce that chance a lot by forming a PUG with only 1 person you don't know (and his 3 heroes). 
Navaros
Or alternately, if he is an idiot, your whole party is doomed. Whereas with PUGs full of people chances are better that one or two of them might not be idiots and hence can still carry the party with you despite some bad apples.
Original poster brings up an excellent point in that now it will just take one terrible player and his heroes to completely ruin a party.
Original poster brings up an excellent point in that now it will just take one terrible player and his heroes to completely ruin a party.
Arduin
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Originally Posted by Tetris L
Look at it this way: If you form a PUG with 7 people you don't know, chances are pretty high that at least ONE of them is an idiot. You can reduce that chance a lot by forming a PUG with only 1 person you don't know (and his 3 heroes).
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Velvet Wing
Or you can just stand in an outpost and keep yelling: LFP for mission, no heroes allowed 
Tetris L
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Originally Posted by Navaros
Or alternately, if he is an idiot, your whole party is doomed. Whereas with PUGs full of people chances are better that one or two of them might not be idiots and hence can still carry the party with you despite some bad apples.
Original poster brings up an excellent point in that now it will just take one terrible player and his heroes to completely ruin a party. |
I think with heros you have to be more picky when setting up the PUG, but once you've started your chances may actually be a lot better than with an all-human party. I'll gladly spend 5-10 minutes to chat with ONE pick-up partner, discuss our team build and tactics, and in the process assess if he's capable to handle it. That is much harder than assessing a group of 7 humans in the same time.
Arduin
^ or ask a fellow-guildmember to join with his/her 3 heroes, nearly a 100% chance of succes
Velvet Wing
Should be a nice opportunity to go out and talk with your guildmembers some more 
NinjaKai
How is a leaver a noob if they have an error that can't be helped.
Velvet Wing
agreed
CyberMesh0
Genuine err7 leavers are not noobs. Leavers due to any other reason (except an IRL emergency or something of that caliber) are just plain stupid. But back on topic. I think even just having me, 3 heroes and 4 henchmen is easily leaps and bounds better than me and 7 other henchmen. At least the henchmen still follow the group direction button. So if I see an overwhelming majority of players that I deem hazardous I will most likely just take henchmen along with my heroes for the mission or quest or what-have-you. Problem solved.
mushy
''-Leavers (whether intentional or an error)''
What sort of a sweeping statement is this! People get oo7 error's, or their comp overheats or crashes, or an issue comes up. So that makes them a 'noob'? I don't feel these people should be refered as this term as it is just wrong and doesn't apply to them.
What sort of a sweeping statement is this! People get oo7 error's, or their comp overheats or crashes, or an issue comes up. So that makes them a 'noob'? I don't feel these people should be refered as this term as it is just wrong and doesn't apply to them.
crucifix
i think the big fear is not neccesarily PvE in this aspect. we should be worried about the mix of heroes + real players + the new control of heroes/ henchmen +6 man HA. PvE is nothing serious, but im predicting an insane insurgence of henchway/heroway in halls.
Well99
Always loved those I am to leet for this group types.As soon as you start mission they leave or afk.Or they decide to take off from the group and then complain cause monk doesnt heal them.
As far as the topic well I probably go heroes and hench unless my friend is on.
Way too many people in last pugs I was in being prima donnas.I will miss those pugs where folks worked together.Those are the ones you enjoy.Just to rare anymore.
As far as err7 it happens and the player has no control so no fault there.
Those in a good guild shouldn't have a problem.Just hook up with guildie.
Anyhoo in a few days NF is here...)
Also disclaimer:Only on second cup of coffee so any silly remarks due to lack of caffaine(SP)
As far as the topic well I probably go heroes and hench unless my friend is on.
Way too many people in last pugs I was in being prima donnas.I will miss those pugs where folks worked together.Those are the ones you enjoy.Just to rare anymore.
As far as err7 it happens and the player has no control so no fault there.
Those in a good guild shouldn't have a problem.Just hook up with guildie.
Anyhoo in a few days NF is here...)
Also disclaimer:Only on second cup of coffee so any silly remarks due to lack of caffaine(SP)
Cloudpiercer
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Originally Posted by NinjaKai
How is a leaver a noob if they have an error that can't be helped.
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Anyway, guildies and friends ftw. (you only need one now)
mushy
''PvE is nothing serious''
PvE is just as fun / 'serious' as PvP, it depends on the person, everyone is different, for me i'm pure PvE so i fine PvP is usless....
PvE is just as fun / 'serious' as PvP, it depends on the person, everyone is different, for me i'm pure PvE so i fine PvP is usless....
crucifix
i say pve is nothing serious because you have plenty of time/ tries to do what you want. screw up a gvg and your rating tanks, screw up HA and you start the ckimb again. in PVe, you really cant mess up.
raca137
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Originally Posted by Arduinna
Heroes add up to the total of 8 party members, so if you bring 3 heroes, and another person brings 3, you would have your party together. Of course, when the other person screws things up, half of your team will be crippled. That's why I'm sure to only invite people (with their respective heroes) which I know are capable of finishing this mission etc. without failing it because of noobish behaviour. It will be even more important to carefully pick the people you play with.
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So for soloing stuff you can have 1(yourself) +3 (heros) + 4 (henchmen)
DarkWasp
Good lord, you people worry about everything possible. I never would have thought of this one myself!
If you pick up a noob with heros, chances are you have heroes yourself.
That means, there are 2 human players. Usauly in a group of 2, you don't pick up a noob.
I don't see this as much of a problem, especialy if you have a few friends online. All you need is one.
If you pick up a noob with heros, chances are you have heroes yourself.
That means, there are 2 human players. Usauly in a group of 2, you don't pick up a noob.
I don't see this as much of a problem, especialy if you have a few friends online. All you need is one.
baz777
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Originally Posted by raca137
You can only bring 3 heros total for the whole party. You cant bring 3 and your buddy brings 3
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Guildmaster Cain
Or just 1 player + 3 heroes for the hardcore ppl amongst us... ^^
And on the above poster, Anet has already said it would be possible to BOTH bring 3 heroes. Its not 3 max for party, its 3 max per person. And Heroes will very likely not be available in PvP, since they made a special Hero vs Hero arena for this purpose.
And on the PvE vs PvP rant (which is not the topic): Screw in mission at the end and you will start again... see any differences with HA, beside the fact missions take longer then ascending to HoH through the tombs? Stop saying that either one is more important or fun or whatever then the other. I do both, and both are hard/easy/annoying at times, just depending on the situation/team/foes. Stop making judgements about things that you haven't experienced yourself.
And on the above poster, Anet has already said it would be possible to BOTH bring 3 heroes. Its not 3 max for party, its 3 max per person. And Heroes will very likely not be available in PvP, since they made a special Hero vs Hero arena for this purpose.
And on the PvE vs PvP rant (which is not the topic): Screw in mission at the end and you will start again... see any differences with HA, beside the fact missions take longer then ascending to HoH through the tombs? Stop saying that either one is more important or fun or whatever then the other. I do both, and both are hard/easy/annoying at times, just depending on the situation/team/foes. Stop making judgements about things that you haven't experienced yourself.
Tetris L
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Originally Posted by crucifix
i say pve is nothing serious because you have plenty of time/ tries to do what you want. screw up a gvg and your rating tanks, screw up HA and you start the ckimb again. in PVe, you really cant mess up.
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Cow Tale
heres a question, if you are the party leader will u be able to kick other players heros out of the group?
DarkWasp
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Originally Posted by Tetris L
I don't see the big difference. In PvP, too, you have plenty of time/ tries to do what you want. You said it yourself: "Screw up HA and you start the climb again." How is that different from "Screw up <insert PvE mission name here> and you get kicked back to outpost." The only difference is the amount of time that you need to reach the same point again. Yesterday I did Gyala Hatchery the "safe but long" way, and we lost 1 baby turtle after more than 1 hour of preparation (clearing the path). Many people's winning streaks in HA are less than 1 hour.
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Velvet Wing
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Originally Posted by raca137
You can only bring 3 heros total for the whole party. You cant bring 3 and your buddy brings 3.
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Two April Mornings
The only thing is, is that we all will be noobs with heroes.
Henchman
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Originally Posted by NinjaKai
How is a leaver a noob if they have an error that can't be helped.
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I fixed my original post as well..
crucifix
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Originally Posted by DarkWasp
Yes, and THK requires a certain long time to pass before the last group attacks the walls.
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uhh im diregarding that entire mission due to how easy it is. if you can mm with hench a mission, that is proof enough why pve isnt serious.
and im pretty sure it is only 3 heroes max per party. so 3 heroes, one player, another player, and 3 more heroes i dont think will be possible.
Dragasa
if you were smart you'd talk to the other person before the mission and find out what heros they have and how they're set up. the only way to get stuck with a noob is if you're a noob yourself. here's an even better idea, if they don't know what they're doing, help them. there'd be less "noobs" in the game if people would help each other learn the game instead of flaming them for not knowing something. i see it in this game all the time, and it's annoying. older players flame the new ones, then the new ones start flaming the newer ones. it's an endless cycle of stupidity.
AW Lore
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Originally Posted by crucifix
uhh im diregarding that entire mission due to how easy it is. if you can mm with hench a mission, that is proof enough why pve isnt serious.
and im pretty sure it is only 3 heroes max per party. so 3 heroes, one player, another player, and 3 more heroes i dont think will be possible. |
Rampager
it is possible to play with 1+3 and 1+3 but you cannot kick the other persons heroes out the group they have to do it themselves how fun will it be asking people to kick Koss The W/Mo....(not that all will choose that but im sure some will)
luauelveneno
stupid threath title infact we are ALL noobs with the new Hero system since it is new to any1 who is going to play nightfall.....
Tetris L
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Originally Posted by crucifix
uhh im diregarding that entire mission due to how easy it is. if you can mm with hench a mission, that is proof enough why pve isnt serious.
and im pretty sure it is only 3 heroes max per party. so 3 heroes, one player, another player, and 3 more heroes i dont think will be possible. |
The first question is a matter of opinion. Of course high-level PvP requires more skill than low-level PvE, but the same applies vice-versa. Yes, most missions can be beaten with henchies. But a low-level PvP player team can also be beaten by an AI-controlled opponent team. Does that proof that PvP or PvE takes less skill? Not really. Of course, the human brain *should* be superior to AI, so ultimately beating human opponents should be more difficult and take more skill than beating AI. But most human aren't half as smart as they should be, so AI can easily compensate the disadvantage, in most cases. Don't tell me that PvP takes more skill as long as 90% of the teams in HA use standard vanilla cookie cutter builds. IWAY != skill.
Anyway, this thread isn't supposed to be a PvP-vs-PvE discussion, so I'll let it slide now.
As for the second question, it's very clear. ANet have stated several times that they set the limit of 3 heroes per player in order to encourage "buddygaming", i.e. 2 human players, each bringing 3 heroes, forming a party of 8. See for example this preview on Gamespot:
"You can have up to three heroes with you at any one time, but you can also fill out the rest of an eight-man party with henchmen. This will let you explore much of the game by yourself, though the optimal party will have two players. With two players with three heroes each, you have a full eight-member party that consists of powerful characters."
Franco
or you can just take henchman and do the mission probably at first try.
yasmina
I myself have not come across many of these people thank goodness but the heroes are only based on the number of people you have in your party if you have a full party of 8 people there is no room for heroes so that one person you call a noob will still do what they always do.
Now on the other hand if you do not have a full group and want to take heores make sure you take yours if you know you wont be that noob if it is such a big issue, what we did in the preview weekend is basically take the hero that would benefit the group as a whole lvl wise and skill wise, remember that heores skills are based on what you have unlocked on your account.
Now on the other hand if you do not have a full group and want to take heores make sure you take yours if you know you wont be that noob if it is such a big issue, what we did in the preview weekend is basically take the hero that would benefit the group as a whole lvl wise and skill wise, remember that heores skills are based on what you have unlocked on your account.
Well99
Well when you run a pug it is also important to find out the type of chr that person is bringing.Is he nuke Ele or is your monk a healer or smiter.You dont need to know every skill.So it seems it would be smart to ask second human what type of heroes he was bringing.That way you could match up the needs for mission or quest.
Just a note:Noob seems to be the word of the day in GW..silly if you ask me.
I was called one because I wouldn't pay 2k for blue dye..) Anyhow I guess it is better than using a swear word....oh well
Just a note:Noob seems to be the word of the day in GW..silly if you ask me.
I was called one because I wouldn't pay 2k for blue dye..) Anyhow I guess it is better than using a swear word....oh well
Enix
Your teammates heros dont leave if he/she leaves. They stay with the remaining player (I e7'd during the event a few times, but my Heros stayed with my g/f).
TheMosesPHD
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Originally Posted by Cow Tale
heres a question, if you are the party leader will u be able to kick other players heros out of the group?
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If we're not currently able to kick other peoples Heroes from the group as the party leader, there will be hundreds upon thousands of times when forming group when you can't get the last people you need because some bastard won't drop his heroes from the group so you can get something the team really needs.
Zinger314
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
If we're not currently able to kick other peoples Heroes from the group as the party leader, there will be hundreds upon thousands of times when forming group when you can't get the last people you need because some bastard won't drop his heroes from the group so you can get something the team really needs.
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