First off, this is not a 'the nerf sucks' thread, there are plenty of those. This is a suggestion to solve the dual problem of farming, and farming nerfs, for good.
Why do people farm? Well, because the price of stuff in GW vastly outstrips the gold supply. No, I don't mean the 90k weapons sold by players (the sooner those stupid prices come down the better), I mean the stuff sold by ingame NPCs - FoW, 15k, even 'basic' max armor costs 7.5k per char, which is not trivial to acquire unless you farm.
What is the real problem with the GW game mechanics? Let's take an example. Someone in the Southern Shiverpeaks who forms a team of 8 people (either humans or hench) and goes out and fights packs of monsters as the game was supposed to work, gets an eighth of the drop rate of someone who goes out and solo farms trolls. Anet could solve the real players' (as opposed to bots) motivation for solo farming in a stroke by giving people who play in teams the same drop rates as people who solo (rather than dividing it between the entire team). Solo farming could then be totally and completely nerfed, to stop the goldseller bots I mentioned, and would have the full support of the GW community, rather than the current 'you can only get basic items by farming, but we will nerf all farming' which threatens to destroy a very good game.
Solve 'the farming problem' fairly and FOR GOOD
Mr_Cynical
Not A Fifty Five
yup. Yup yup yup. yup.
Yup.
/signed
The admittedly it'd look funny having 8 drops from a troll. I'd say gold pieces only would be affected? I dunno
Or quite simply have other player's drops be invisible. This would also solve the really monstrous acts of people not resing people to get their drops. Hell henchies' drops are ALREADY invisible
Yup.
/signed
The admittedly it'd look funny having 8 drops from a troll. I'd say gold pieces only would be affected? I dunno
Or quite simply have other player's drops be invisible. This would also solve the really monstrous acts of people not resing people to get their drops. Hell henchies' drops are ALREADY invisible
Refyused
/signed
Much better than making everything run away from a few Ripostes, which aren't even AoE damage.
Much better than making everything run away from a few Ripostes, which aren't even AoE damage.
Rakeman
Potentially, that would completely destroy the economy, inflating everything (more gold=gold has less of a value). If done right, however, it could probably SAVE the economy. so /sign, as long as Anet takes measures to make sure it doesn't screw everything up.
Not A Fifty Five
It shouldn't destroy the economy at all. However, it'll cause a lot of indirect problems that would need to be fixed like 15k armor turning into 25k armor or something and stuff like that. Due to the fact of travel time, manipulation of monsters to attack only you, not having to make a party, and such stuff this update won't make 8 person farming 8 times better than solo farming, only maybe 2 times. So it isn't that drastic.
Except Obsidian shard prices will go to hell.
Except Obsidian shard prices will go to hell.
Dougal Kronik
/not signed
Playing through the game normally, I've been able to buy a set of 15k armor.
I have some Green weapons that have dropped for me as well.
Before that, I got by on collector armor from the Crystal Desert and collector or gold weapons that dropped for me or I had crafted.
You don't need those items, so I think they should be for the players who want to go out and acquire them. Either by farming,offering services (runs and missions), or by playing the game more than the casual players.
Playing through the game normally, I've been able to buy a set of 15k armor.
I have some Green weapons that have dropped for me as well.
Before that, I got by on collector armor from the Crystal Desert and collector or gold weapons that dropped for me or I had crafted.
You don't need those items, so I think they should be for the players who want to go out and acquire them. Either by farming,offering services (runs and missions), or by playing the game more than the casual players.
Not A Fifty Five
Yes but full item/skill/ everything unlock currently costs over 700k. its not 15k thats the bugger its skill costs
And if you say "go pvp" think again. I've played very long hours pvping. I have 600k bal faction. And yet over half of my unlock is from pve
And if you say "go pvp" think again. I've played very long hours pvping. I have 600k bal faction. And yet over half of my unlock is from pve
Rakeman
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five
It shouldn't destroy the economy at all. However, it'll cause a lot of indirect problems that would need to be fixed like 15k armor turning into 25k armor or something and stuff like that. Due to the fact of travel time, manipulation of monsters to attack only you, not having to make a party, and such stuff this update won't make 8 person farming 8 times better than solo farming, only maybe 2 times. So it isn't that drastic.
Except Obsidian shard prices will go to hell. |
Winterclaw
I like the idea of increased drop rates for people in a group, but I don't think it should be quite as high as soloers. How about either making it so every monster in a mob has 2-4 item/gold drops provided there is a group. If gold drops, let everyone get the dropped amount. As for xp, make it halfway to the solo level for people in groups (ie two people would get 75% each).
Not A Fifty Five
yeah and you've really seen GW economy suddenly crash during the Full year of no anti-farming code?
Caleb
All you would find then is 8 man teams of sweat shop workers, now generating 8 times the gold by working together.
Sli Ander
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Originally Posted by Mr_Cynical
Why do people farm? Well, because the price of stuff in GW vastly outstrips the gold supply. No, I don't mean the 90k weapons sold by players (the sooner those stupid prices come down the better), I mean the stuff sold by ingame NPCs - FoW, 15k, even 'basic' max armor costs 7.5k per char, which is not trivial to acquire unless you farm.
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As for the rest of your statement/suggestion, it would certainly be interesting to see. An influx of gold items from farming teams would deflate much of the economy. But I'm no expert, and frankly it doesn't affect the casual player the way it is now. The only people your suggestion would affect would be the people who think the NEED those types of items, or care enough about skins to spend the money.
But thats just my two cents.
Not A Fifty Five
Caleb's got a point -.-
I think a very easy way to stop solo farming also would be to have very high rewards for completing goals needing group efforts. Like Urgoz drops 3 greens and 500k divided among the group.
And if you think that's overdoing it think again >.< 500k divided by 10 (theres always 2 lagouts in urz) divided by 3 hours is like 16k an hour which only ties with solo farming, and doesn't even beat vermin farming
I think a very easy way to stop solo farming also would be to have very high rewards for completing goals needing group efforts. Like Urgoz drops 3 greens and 500k divided among the group.
And if you think that's overdoing it think again >.< 500k divided by 10 (theres always 2 lagouts in urz) divided by 3 hours is like 16k an hour which only ties with solo farming, and doesn't even beat vermin farming
Hyper Cutter
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Originally Posted by Mr_Cynical
even 'basic' max armor costs 7.5k per char, which is not trivial to acquire unless you farm.
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Mr_Cynical
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Caleb The Pontiff
All you would find then is 8 man teams of sweat shop workers, now generating 8 times the gold by working together.
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Rakeman
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five
yeah and you've really seen GW economy suddenly crash during the Full year of no anti-farming code?
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Not A Fifty Five
...
o.o?
O.O?
Take high school literature. Its called sarcasm mister.
I'm saying that why would you even suggest that might happen if it hadn't happened with the gross amount of solo bot farming?
o.o?
O.O?
Take high school literature. Its called sarcasm mister.
I'm saying that why would you even suggest that might happen if it hadn't happened with the gross amount of solo bot farming?
chicks boy
/sign
even though 3k is so frikin hard to get without farming i still sign.
even though 3k is so frikin hard to get without farming i still sign.
The Prince
/signed
I do believe some fair fix is needed, but nerfing farming isnt it, because although you can easily generate the gold needed for max attribute equipment through normal gameplay, most people wont be able to generat the cash needed for 15k, rare skinned items and such, and since the game is designed to be egalitarian, why should those who dont have huge cash reserves or ectos in storage be the ones to suffer? newer players especially who havent had time to farm and build up legitimate pre nerf storage will have difficulty in being able to get the items they want for their characters, and what good is a game that promises egalitarianism when making money is so inefficient that getting desired items will cost you your job?
rant ove.r
I do believe some fair fix is needed, but nerfing farming isnt it, because although you can easily generate the gold needed for max attribute equipment through normal gameplay, most people wont be able to generat the cash needed for 15k, rare skinned items and such, and since the game is designed to be egalitarian, why should those who dont have huge cash reserves or ectos in storage be the ones to suffer? newer players especially who havent had time to farm and build up legitimate pre nerf storage will have difficulty in being able to get the items they want for their characters, and what good is a game that promises egalitarianism when making money is so inefficient that getting desired items will cost you your job?
rant ove.r
LuckyGiant
Not signed.
First Caleb makes a good point about bots.
Secondly, this won't fix anything, you'll inflate the economy. Everyone has more gold --> people willing to pay that bit extra for an item over someone else because they have more gold --> price of all items inflate --> your gold has the same buying power, you just have more of it....pointless
First Caleb makes a good point about bots.
Secondly, this won't fix anything, you'll inflate the economy. Everyone has more gold --> people willing to pay that bit extra for an item over someone else because they have more gold --> price of all items inflate --> your gold has the same buying power, you just have more of it....pointless
Not A Fifty Five
not rly. Everyone EXCEPT solo farmers would earn gold faster. which does have a major effect.
Not to mention the major gripe is abotu money for NPC stuff, 15k armor the 1 million or so gold for full unlock etc, will be easier for non solo farmers, we're not talkign abotu player market weapon prices
Not to mention the major gripe is abotu money for NPC stuff, 15k armor the 1 million or so gold for full unlock etc, will be easier for non solo farmers, we're not talkign abotu player market weapon prices
Winterclaw
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Originally Posted by LuckyGiant
Secondly, this won't fix anything, you'll inflate the economy. Everyone has more gold --> people willing to pay that bit extra for an item over someone else because they have more gold --> price of all items inflate --> your gold has the same buying power, you just have more of it....pointless
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The only good thing is you can now give poor inherant weapons better bonuses. But the good bonuses can only be salvaged from gold items and the number of gold items will decrease a little because fewer people will be chest farming now.
Morgenstern
Not signed.
Its a good idea at first, but then I tought that it will probably make people do the missions and actually play the game. Once you get to Droks the numbers in mission "towns" goes down heaps, showing that most people play to farm. The people at ANet spent ages making this beautiful game... why don't you try playing it?
Its a good idea at first, but then I tought that it will probably make people do the missions and actually play the game. Once you get to Droks the numbers in mission "towns" goes down heaps, showing that most people play to farm. The people at ANet spent ages making this beautiful game... why don't you try playing it?
LordLucifer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Morgenstern
Not signed.
Its a good idea at first, but then I tought that it will probably make people do the missions and actually play the game. Once you get to Droks the numbers in mission "towns" goes down heaps, showing that most people play to farm. The people at ANet spent ages making this beautiful game... why don't you try playing it? |
multiplicate the drop rates for each member in the party, so solo farm wouldnt even be worth it, not a bad idea /signed
ppl would get money if they played on a team or alone, much better than a boring solo farm
Brother Redmund
/notsigned
what a capitalist digital world we live in. this is just how it is, sure farming as we know it has been nerfed. before we know it, a new way of generating money from killings things for their drops will have developed. where there's a will there's a way, new techniques to kill new things will evolve, you can bet on it.
what a capitalist digital world we live in. this is just how it is, sure farming as we know it has been nerfed. before we know it, a new way of generating money from killings things for their drops will have developed. where there's a will there's a way, new techniques to kill new things will evolve, you can bet on it.
the_jos
7.5k not trivial to acquire unless you farm?
That's one week's play (evenings and weekends) and leaving a lot of whites on the ground for me on the high level areas.
The areas where you 'need' max armor give enough cash to buy the armor.
Both my Sin and Rt are equipped with armor for which they generated their own money. Had no problems with that.
When you cannot generate the money, Collectors armor ftw.
15K is somewhat harder to accuire, but also still possible.
Not at the rate of one per week, I guess it's more one per two months.
But then, you don't need it, except for looks.
That's one week's play (evenings and weekends) and leaving a lot of whites on the ground for me on the high level areas.
The areas where you 'need' max armor give enough cash to buy the armor.
Both my Sin and Rt are equipped with armor for which they generated their own money. Had no problems with that.
When you cannot generate the money, Collectors armor ftw.
15K is somewhat harder to accuire, but also still possible.
Not at the rate of one per week, I guess it's more one per two months.
But then, you don't need it, except for looks.
Emik
People complaining about the 'farmers get more' situation are just the ones who can't farm.
Period
Period
Mr_Cynical
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Emik
People complaining about the 'farmers get more' situation are just the ones who can't farm.
Period |
plastichead
I want my FoW armor without playing the same missions for a year.
/Signed
/Signed
manitoba1073
Quote:
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Originally Posted by plastichead
I want my FoW armor without playing the same missions for a year.
/Signed |
/not signed
freekedoutfish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mr_Cynical
First off, this is not a 'the nerf sucks' thread, there are plenty of those. This is a suggestion to solve the dual problem of farming, and farming nerfs, for good.
Why do people farm? Well, because the price of stuff in GW vastly outstrips the gold supply. No, I don't mean the 90k weapons sold by players (the sooner those stupid prices come down the better), I mean the stuff sold by ingame NPCs - FoW, 15k, even 'basic' max armor costs 7.5k per char, which is not trivial to acquire unless you farm. What is the real problem with the GW game mechanics? Let's take an example. Someone in the Southern Shiverpeaks who forms a team of 8 people (either humans or hench) and goes out and fights packs of monsters as the game was supposed to work, gets an eighth of the drop rate of someone who goes out and solo farms trolls. Anet could solve the real players' (as opposed to bots) motivation for solo farming in a stroke by giving people who play in teams the same drop rates as people who solo (rather than dividing it between the entire team). Solo farming could then be totally and completely nerfed, to stop the goldseller bots I mentioned, and would have the full support of the GW community, rather than the current 'you can only get basic items by farming, but we will nerf all farming' which threatens to destroy a very good game. |
Lets say a createure drops 100g.
Are you suggesting that you all EACH get 100g?
That logically makes no sense... because the bag of gold clearly says "100g" above it. So where does the extra 700g come from.
You'l be suggesting that the bags should then say 800g on them instead. But a creature which drops 800g....
...that would NEVER happen because you would then have solo farmers going out and collecting 800g a drop.
This just wouldnt work.
You would have a sudden and rapid increase in the amount of gold each individual player has.
The minute you do that, the price of objects will sky-rocket.
More gold in the community = more expensive materials and weapons.
Simple economics.
The logical way to fix it is to remove gold from the community and reduce prices, but that wouldnt happen either.
It would take longer for prices to drop then they would to increase.
And people would obviously complain.
Besides, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the farming in GWs or the collecting of gold.
Yeah its hard work the first time, but the second or third time around its totally easy.
Ive managed it with an ele, a necro and a ranger, and those are pretty different professions. So if your unable to farm, then its down to your lack of skill, not GWs fault.
WasAGuest
First, I love the Ai update. If a mob can tell it's getting hurt, it should run away. it is acting like a "living creature" finally. Second, while the above is true, not every creature in our real world has that much intellegence. A rabid animal will attack even with multiple gun shot wounds to it. So the bugs and animal based creatures needs to have this adjusted somewhat so they "act" right.
Now on topic; farming isn't impossible, it's just different. I farmed last night for a bit (solo) without any problem whatsoever. It's boring as all can be, but I had nothing else to do at the time.
What I would like to see, is what was mentioned before: A system that multiplies the loot per group member. So if you have 4 people in your group, the mob drops more loot. If you have a full group, then the mobs should drop loot with a "bonus" amount for having a full group. Example:
Solo farmer Bob kills mob X and gains 100 gold.
Farmer Bob and his wife Betty kill mob X and gain 110 gold each.
Farmer Bob and his wife Betty take the kids out to farm (8 in group) and kill mob X and each gains 300 gold.
By upping the amount of gold and goods dropped when there are more people in the group, Anet rewards people for grouping together.
The only thing Anet really needs to consider now, is the Heroes. People are going to want to use those Heroes a lot now, so they can level them up and get them the good gear. If those Heroes are greedy like the henchies and take their share of the loot (which they shouldn't since the player also has to equip them) then the system should count the Heroes as player as far as loot scaling is concerned.
Now on topic; farming isn't impossible, it's just different. I farmed last night for a bit (solo) without any problem whatsoever. It's boring as all can be, but I had nothing else to do at the time.
What I would like to see, is what was mentioned before: A system that multiplies the loot per group member. So if you have 4 people in your group, the mob drops more loot. If you have a full group, then the mobs should drop loot with a "bonus" amount for having a full group. Example:
Solo farmer Bob kills mob X and gains 100 gold.
Farmer Bob and his wife Betty kill mob X and gain 110 gold each.
Farmer Bob and his wife Betty take the kids out to farm (8 in group) and kill mob X and each gains 300 gold.
By upping the amount of gold and goods dropped when there are more people in the group, Anet rewards people for grouping together.
The only thing Anet really needs to consider now, is the Heroes. People are going to want to use those Heroes a lot now, so they can level them up and get them the good gear. If those Heroes are greedy like the henchies and take their share of the loot (which they shouldn't since the player also has to equip them) then the system should count the Heroes as player as far as loot scaling is concerned.
freekedoutfish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by WasAGuest
First, I love the Ai update. If a mob can tell it's getting hurt, it should run away. it is acting like a "living creature" finally. Second, while the above is true, not every creature in our real world has that much intellegence. A rabid animal will attack even with multiple gun shot wounds to it. So the bugs and animal based creatures needs to have this adjusted somewhat so they "act" right.
Now on topic; farming isn't impossible, it's just different. I farmed last night for a bit (solo) without any problem whatsoever. It's boring as all can be, but I had nothing else to do at the time. What I would like to see, is what was mentioned before: A system that multiplies the loot per group member. So if you have 4 people in your group, the mob drops more loot. If you have a full group, then the mobs should drop loot with a "bonus" amount for having a full group. Example: Solo farmer Bob kills mob X and gains 100 gold. Farmer Bob and his wife Betty kill mob X and gain 110 gold each. Farmer Bob and his wife Betty take the kids out to farm (8 in group) and kill mob X and each gains 300 gold. By upping the amount of gold and goods dropped when there are more people in the group, Anet rewards people for grouping together. The only thing Anet really needs to consider now, is the Heroes. People are going to want to use those Heroes a lot now, so they can level them up and get them the good gear. If those Heroes are greedy like the henchies and take their share of the loot (which they shouldn't since the player also has to equip them) then the system should count the Heroes as player as far as loot scaling is concerned. |
More gold = higher prices.
It ultimately doesnt fix anything.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
This still rases the issue of having an increasing amount of gold in the community.
More gold = higher prices. It ultimately doesnt fix anything. |
So what if a crystalline costs 100000000000000000? Does that affect the average player?
Look at the influx of greens. Good stats for cheap.
I think we need some GOOD solid data as to what people are buying, what items are expensive and for what reason, etc, how much of their money they got from farming.
Right now, I want to farm. I want the option to farm.
BUT I HATE FARMING ALONE. Its BORING.
I show my farming runs to my guildies then we split up....why? Cause theres more money in the amount of time we spent if we went solo each.
Guild Wars SHOULD advocate more group farming and social interaction.
I think SF/Tombs/UW/FOW/DEEP/URGOZ are all great places and we should have more of them and make it so it rewards full groups who make it to the end.
Solo Farming should be made to look "inefficient" and "not worth it".
thats just imo though.
Bowstring Badass
/notsign
Nerfing solo farming is nothing to what they should do to fix the game economy.
Nerfing solo farming is nothing to what they should do to fix the game economy.
Father Anansi
Any change that discourages solo farming and encourages cooperative play I am pretty much for. However, increasing the amount of gold and items on an enemy per real player isn't going to cut back. I'd suggest increasing the likelyhood of rare and gold drops of NPCs per a player and decreasing the likely hood of loot per a player not equipped. The operative word being "likelyhood." In other words, increase the possibile percentage of lucrative drops per a human party member. This way, forcing individuals into cooperative play if they don't want to be farming for hours on end.
This isn't a panacea for farming. Those who want to solo farm can still do so. However, rewarding players who participate in cooperative play is definitely an incentive to go out and find parties.
This isn't a panacea for farming. Those who want to solo farm can still do so. However, rewarding players who participate in cooperative play is definitely an incentive to go out and find parties.
Jetdoc
/not signed. This would damage the economy much more than discourage solo farming.
It actually would SPEED UP solo farming, as those bots would simply take henchmen wherever they go, which allows them to clear an area even quicker.
It actually would SPEED UP solo farming, as those bots would simply take henchmen wherever they go, which allows them to clear an area even quicker.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
/not signed. This would damage the economy much more than discourage solo farming.
It actually would SPEED UP solo farming, as those bots would simply take henchmen wherever they go, which allows them to clear an area even quicker. |
Mojo Moo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by the_jos
7.5k not trivial to acquire unless you farm?
That's one week's play (evenings and weekends) and leaving a lot of whites on the ground for me on the high level areas. The areas where you 'need' max armor give enough cash to buy the armor. |
Carth`
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik
/not signed
Playing through the game normally, I've been able to buy a set of 15k armor. I have some Green weapons that have dropped for me as well. Before that, I got by on collector armor from the Crystal Desert and collector or gold weapons that dropped for me or I had crafted. You don't need those items, so I think they should be for the players who want to go out and acquire them. Either by farming,offering services (runs and missions), or by playing the game more than the casual players. |