i said i would give an update on the ai and the posibility of farming them..
as of right now with tests done in elona and in droks.
there is not one thing we can do to prevent aggro droppage..
you see the enimies are scattering aggro on two seperate levels.. first if they get touched by any aoe (IE : soj,ss,sv,av) they will break aggro almost imediatly..
now lets say you try to do damage to all of them but on an individual basis.. such as the kind of damage done by famine working off fear me.... that wont work either.. because when the baddies reach a certain level of health they will just run away and completly de aggro.. they will then reingage you after they are full again..
Now lets say you try to kill on a STRICT 1v1 bassis.. that solo dude your attacking will run also when his health reaches low.. so you have to chase him down.. that is actually very annoying.
Now the last part is some strange behavior i have noticed on behalf of the ai..
If your tanking and lets say a ranger throws sv on you.. the resulting aggro explosion will cause about half the group to imediatly aggro onto the ranger..
then the other half will sit idle and do nothing for almost a few minutes..
It really would seem that farming is totally abolished now.
so when nightfall comes out chestfarming and questinng are about the only things left to do...
I hope this helps with folks looking for answers and i know this has been discussed but i have tried to provide info on this that other threads do not provide..
In my honest opinion.. i think anet will change the aggro again. because this kinda aggro renders many MANY even non farming skills usless.. so anet will notice this and hopefully realize that they are killing any long term pve enjoyment..
Update on the new ai actions
Narutoscryed
The Great Al
i think hydros will come into play a lot more now. they got a HUGE buff and are very useful for slowing down enemies.
Tookis Elite
and dervish = nonstop AoE
so gg dervish fun
naw cuz id say over half the good slows for ele are aoe...so u may get them to be slowed down but they'll still run so u cant farm em
famine - need energy drain to work
a: fear me - monk cant build adren quick enuff without them activating balthz spirit
b: SV/AV - dosnt trigge rwithout hits
SS necro - wont work if they arent attacking/using skills
ya if u were a warrior ud be able to chase em down but i dont think 2 man w/mo + e/* will become too popular.
so gg dervish fun
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Originally Posted by The Great Al
i think hydros will come into play a lot more now. they got a HUGE buff and are very useful for slowing down enemies.
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famine - need energy drain to work
a: fear me - monk cant build adren quick enuff without them activating balthz spirit
b: SV/AV - dosnt trigge rwithout hits
SS necro - wont work if they arent attacking/using skills
ya if u were a warrior ud be able to chase em down but i dont think 2 man w/mo + e/* will become too popular.
The Great Al
well they need to bring ward against foes, and i'll hit them with a deep freeze 
honestly so what if they made the game a little more frustrating, dervishes were severly overpowered before anyway
honestly so what if they made the game a little more frustrating, dervishes were severly overpowered before anyway
Pudin Tame
Agreed.
The most ridiculous thing was poisoning one, hitting the group with epidemic, and they instantly scatter.
I know you can still solo farm with it taking about twice as long, but I really enjoy being able to farm with guildies. I don't want to go solo all the time. Seems that is the only option now.
Farming is about the only thing I've done since moving my characters through Factions, so I guess if things stay as they are I'll just be done when I finish Nightfall. There will be nothing to do except PvP which I am sick of because people take it too seriously.
Please fix it.
The most ridiculous thing was poisoning one, hitting the group with epidemic, and they instantly scatter.
I know you can still solo farm with it taking about twice as long, but I really enjoy being able to farm with guildies. I don't want to go solo all the time. Seems that is the only option now.
Farming is about the only thing I've done since moving my characters through Factions, so I guess if things stay as they are I'll just be done when I finish Nightfall. There will be nothing to do except PvP which I am sick of because people take it too seriously.
Please fix it.
Narutoscryed
agreed^
not because we are greedy.. but because we dont like skillcapping.. or pvp .. or questing the same quests over and over again...
what guild wars devs do not understand.. is that farming really was fun for us.. going in a 3 man group to urgoz then totally screwing with each other down there.. we all had a great laugh.. we always have a ton of fun when we farm.. and the fact that we didnt have to worry bout total aggro explosion made it so that we could bullshit all night long..
we did not care about makin money.
farming was a way for us to get together and hang out.. Now what?
not because we are greedy.. but because we dont like skillcapping.. or pvp .. or questing the same quests over and over again...
what guild wars devs do not understand.. is that farming really was fun for us.. going in a 3 man group to urgoz then totally screwing with each other down there.. we all had a great laugh.. we always have a ton of fun when we farm.. and the fact that we didnt have to worry bout total aggro explosion made it so that we could bullshit all night long..
we did not care about makin money.
farming was a way for us to get together and hang out.. Now what?
Eviance
ok so why are they running even when you DONT attack them but are running TO attack them?
I've run across a few things that do NOT run from you no matter what skill you use, and yet I've run across others that run from the mere fact that you moved towards them.... It's not just Aoe, my tests were done as a warrior with just simple sword skills and nothing that was even remotely aoeish.
Basically the moster AI is FUBR and I'm dealing with it the best way I can (pulling my hair out and screaming everytime some stupid monster chases me from one zone to nearly the next but then has the FRIGGEN intellegence to run like hell when I start to give chase back, ONLY to stop and chase me if I try again to flee.... WFT!?!?!?!)
Yeah for me my drops are not always great where I farmed but I loved farming it was fun! And no amount of nerfs is going to send me pugging -_- I'm sorry but I've had my fill. If there isn't at least one other guildie in it then you can bet I wont be either.
I've run across a few things that do NOT run from you no matter what skill you use, and yet I've run across others that run from the mere fact that you moved towards them.... It's not just Aoe, my tests were done as a warrior with just simple sword skills and nothing that was even remotely aoeish.
Basically the moster AI is FUBR and I'm dealing with it the best way I can (pulling my hair out and screaming everytime some stupid monster chases me from one zone to nearly the next but then has the FRIGGEN intellegence to run like hell when I start to give chase back, ONLY to stop and chase me if I try again to flee.... WFT!?!?!?!)
Yeah for me my drops are not always great where I farmed but I loved farming it was fun! And no amount of nerfs is going to send me pugging -_- I'm sorry but I've had my fill. If there isn't at least one other guildie in it then you can bet I wont be either.
arcanemacabre
My question is, does the AI act the same way if you are in a group? If not, how big does the group need to be to make the AI act normal (and not this nutty behavior)? 3? 4? 6? Full 8?
I think I read in another thread that the AI seems to be normal if you are teamed, but not solo or duo. If so, looks like they are trying to demolish solo and duo farming.
I think I read in another thread that the AI seems to be normal if you are teamed, but not solo or duo. If so, looks like they are trying to demolish solo and duo farming.
Eviance
Quote:
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
My question is, does the AI act the same way if you are in a group? If not, how big does the group need to be to make the AI act normal (and not this nutty behavior)? 3? 4? 6? Full 8?
I think I read in another thread that the AI seems to be normal if you are teamed, but not solo or duo. If so, looks like they are trying to demolish solo and duo farming. |
Former Ruling
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If your tanking and lets say a ranger throws sv on you.. the resulting aggro explosion will cause about half the group to imediatly aggro onto the ranger.. then the other half will sit idle and do nothing for almost a few minutes.. |
He aggroed them up and I set Famine and put SV on him, IN A SPLIT SECOND all 15+ trolls break from his aggro, like 10 of them run STRAIGHT FOR ME and chase me TO THE DROKNARS FORGE PORTAL and the other 5 just sort of stand around him NOT ATTACKING HIM, like they forgot he was there.
On another note, Caster Mobs want to "kite" warriors now, but by "kite" they mean they just RUN STRAIGHT AWAY when a warrior starts to go near them. I was able to chase a monk boss across a map and into the town portal on the other side, It was EXACTLY like The "Prize Hog" quest in Kryta
saphir
just curious what type of 55 monks tanks people are running. is it the cheapo version w/ non max armor tats? if so as was mentioned in another thread, due to the AI being very broken and only sticking aggro to warriors.. it could be that because the monk has much lower armor than the ranger that they are aggroing on the ranger immediately when they run away.
in my experience so far, the mobs stick the party's warrior like glue. this is w/ normal 8 man parties in fow/uw
in my experience so far, the mobs stick the party's warrior like glue. this is w/ normal 8 man parties in fow/uw
Eviance
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Former Ruling
On another note, Caster Mobs want to "kite" warriors now, but by "kite" they mean they just RUN STRAIGHT AWAY when a warrior starts to go near them. I was able to chase a monk boss across a map and into the town portal on the other side, It was EXACTLY like The "Prize Hog" quest in Kryta
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xiao1985
i actually like the fact that ai scatters....
think about it, in pvp, if you got hexed with SS, as if you'd still put in frenzy while 20 other mates around you are taking 30dmg each hit you dash out...
making pve alot of exciting and interesting...
think about it, in pvp, if you got hexed with SS, as if you'd still put in frenzy while 20 other mates around you are taking 30dmg each hit you dash out...
making pve alot of exciting and interesting...
Pudin Tame
Quote:
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Originally Posted by xiao1985
i actually like the fact that ai scatters....
think about it, in pvp, if you got hexed with SS, as if you'd still put in frenzy while 20 other mates around you are taking 30dmg each hit you dash out... making pve alot of exciting and interesting... |
Narutoscryed
Quote:
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Originally Posted by xiao1985
i actually like the fact that ai scatters....
think about it, in pvp, if you got hexed with SS, as if you'd still put in frenzy while 20 other mates around you are taking 30dmg each hit you dash out... making pve alot of exciting and interesting... |
and Its not makin pve exciting when all the baddies do is run from ya.... thats called makin it annoying..
now you can also take every skill that deals damage in your skill bar.. and say that it makes enimies scatter.... either single or aoe.. it will make them scatter...
WELCOME TO THE NEW GUILD WARS!!! WHERE THE FAVORITE PAST TIME IS CHASING AROUND THE "BIG BAD MONSTERS" NO NEED TO ATTACK.. JUST CHASE THEM AROUND!!!! YAY
^ they should put that on the next cover of pc gamer and see how many games they sell
and further more.. i heard someone say that this update will take the "grind" outa the game by getting rid of farmers.
But how is that if a group that before the update took 2 minutes to kill.. and then after the update they take about 7 minutes.... how is that getting rid of the grind?????????
you can pretty much forget about getting any long missions done in either prophecies or factions because people will not have 6 hours to dedicate to urgoz or any other long missions
The Prince
its not exciting chasing down foes, its slow and frustrating. if i wanted to watch my character run for an hour, id go to shing jea, hit autorun, and kick back and enjoy the show.
Thallandor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Narutoscryed
In my honest opinion.. i think anet will change the aggro again. because this kinda aggro renders many MANY even non farming skills usless.. so anet will notice this and hopefully realize that they are killing any long term pve enjoyment..
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Will someone give us a name responsbile for this mess so we can go over and kick his dog or something.
floppinghog
fact is, grind is FUN... especially when it was OPTIONAL..... guess what anet is doing to us now? they are indirectly stripping our ability to choose what to do.
AI should have never been touched before nightfall, whoever came up with that plan should be shot, bagged, and fired on the spot. why the hell did they SHOOT themselves in the face with such a nice game coming, hey lets DESTROY THE VERY PVE SIDE OF GAME WE WANTED TO MAKE BETTER... by get this: destroying the very art of playing PVE!!!!! findin out about mm's having the very cowardness on their own allies is a pathetic bug at its worst. especially at this point, at the very release of the game.....
damn anet... you really screwed up BIG TIME, at the WRONG time... why..
like a few others i may very well quit after nightfall is done if all i can do is lame quests and salvage the few items i get for a few new weaps.... and waste the rest of my gold. then what, i cant get more gold in the fun way (aka farming)
and its remains fact: groups. dont. get. YOU. drops. split 100 gold between 8 ppl or...get 100g for one person? which is better?
AI should have never been touched before nightfall, whoever came up with that plan should be shot, bagged, and fired on the spot. why the hell did they SHOOT themselves in the face with such a nice game coming, hey lets DESTROY THE VERY PVE SIDE OF GAME WE WANTED TO MAKE BETTER... by get this: destroying the very art of playing PVE!!!!! findin out about mm's having the very cowardness on their own allies is a pathetic bug at its worst. especially at this point, at the very release of the game.....
damn anet... you really screwed up BIG TIME, at the WRONG time... why..
like a few others i may very well quit after nightfall is done if all i can do is lame quests and salvage the few items i get for a few new weaps.... and waste the rest of my gold. then what, i cant get more gold in the fun way (aka farming)
and its remains fact: groups. dont. get. YOU. drops. split 100 gold between 8 ppl or...get 100g for one person? which is better?
gasmaskman
Quote:
| and its remains fact: groups. dont. get. YOU. drops. split 100 gold between 8 ppl or...get 100g for one person? which is better? |
Pudin Tame
It's to the point that I really don't even want to play Nightfall now. This sucks.
Gwondolas Marillion
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eviance
ok so why are they running even when you DONT attack them but are running TO attack them?
I've run across a few things that do NOT run from you no matter what skill you use, and yet I've run across others that run from the mere fact that you moved towards them.... It's not just Aoe, my tests were done as a warrior with just simple sword skills and nothing that was even remotely aoeish. Basically the moster AI is FUBR and I'm dealing with it the best way I can (pulling my hair out and screaming everytime some stupid monster chases me from one zone to nearly the next but then has the FRIGGEN intellegence to run like hell when I start to give chase back, ONLY to stop and chase me if I try again to flee.... WFT!?!?!?!) Yeah for me my drops are not always great where I farmed but I loved farming it was fun! And no amount of nerfs is going to send me pugging -_- I'm sorry but I've had my fill. If there isn't at least one other guildie in it then you can bet I wont be either. |
However, I think this basically is a natural behaviour. If I was a tiny untrained Life Pod at lvl 15, I'd run from an obviously overpowered antagonist as well.
Bottom line; no matter how frustrated I got I can see the good side of this. It'll give me a challenge again. New efficient solo builds will arise, perhaps soloing new monster types/groups and team play PvE will be a bit more challenging. They just took the previous AoE changes and the book/keg/gear/torch-trick a bit further. I welcome the improved monster AI almost as warmly as I welcome the new and obviously improved hench AI.
/Gwon
arcanemacabre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gasmaskman
And it remains fact: groups. go. faster. and. more. drops. happen.
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It shouldn't be that way. An 8-man party should always cause much more devastation in shorter amounts of time (of course, based on player skill), thus more drops more often, and at the very least equal the same amount of time spent for rewards gained as the solo artist.
In other words, 1 person should take 8 times as long to clear an area as an 8-man team would. Therefore, the amount of drops in the same timeframe should be roughly the same. Therefore, no real benefits to soloing, other than the fact that all drops go to you. Makes complete logical sense to me, and sounds like the fair way to do it.
Slainster
Did anyone notice the "improved" hench Ai? last night we had one of the fire mages in our team as a filler, he kept breaking his spells to run away from the agro.. and then be completely out of energy so he couldnt do anything useful!!! Wow.. really impressed... I havent opened my nightfall package yet.. but im already considering sending it back if last night is anything to go on ^^
Narutoscryed
even with 8 man parties. the way the ai acts now is just stupid... i have been playing nightfall for about an hour now.. and i have to say i think im done...
when the highlight of your night is you as a heal monk chasing around a caster all around the map... then you know somthing is wrong
when the highlight of your night is you as a heal monk chasing around a caster all around the map... then you know somthing is wrong
dameros
I've been playing nightfall for 1:30min and im done too. I wont play until the game is fixed.
Pudin Tame
OK, we just tried the mission to get to the main island and it takes so long to kill things that it's not even worth it. This is absolutely horrible! I'll play again when I see an update.
Narutoscryed
totally.. i actually just stoped in the middle of a fight and browsed the web..
I hope they fix somthing cause i dont like playing tag in guild wars. not to mention the fact that nightfall just bored me to tears within the first hour
I hope they fix somthing cause i dont like playing tag in guild wars. not to mention the fact that nightfall just bored me to tears within the first hour
Tookis Elite
/resign
Thallandor
Great PvE game with PvP type mobs.....
Seriously consider why other games dont do this kind of BS. Leave the PvE game alone FFS and stop shafting PvP down our throats.
It will be interesting for the first few times then we will see frustration set in.
Can anyone confirm if its affecting the ability of players in Cantha ability to get the "Masters" rewards for Factions Mission? If thats the case then this patch is truely a Cross Chapter GW killer, GG to an already frustrating game to make it unplayable.
This is the most ridiculous release of the 3 chapters and factions was terrrible enough with the CE delays and that says alot.
Edit: Good luck with the reviews. I am rating it poor and i havent even got my copy to play it yet.
Seriously consider why other games dont do this kind of BS. Leave the PvE game alone FFS and stop shafting PvP down our throats.
It will be interesting for the first few times then we will see frustration set in.
Can anyone confirm if its affecting the ability of players in Cantha ability to get the "Masters" rewards for Factions Mission? If thats the case then this patch is truely a Cross Chapter GW killer, GG to an already frustrating game to make it unplayable.
This is the most ridiculous release of the 3 chapters and factions was terrrible enough with the CE delays and that says alot.
Edit: Good luck with the reviews. I am rating it poor and i havent even got my copy to play it yet.
Pudin Tame
The best thing about this is that I bought two copies of this game for my two accounts. BITCHIN!
Gamblor
I'm glad I didn't pre-order Nightfall, with this new update PvE is just frustrating and boring. Not buying the game till this stuff is fixed.
Narutoscryed
ya thank god i only wasted 50 bucks on this letdown..
GUILD WARS REST IM PEACE.. AND TO THE GAME CREATORS.. YOU CAN STOP BEATING THE DEAD HORSE NOW... ITS DEAD.. ITS NOT GOIN ANYWHERE........
so with that said prophecies is a legendary awsome one of a kind game.. that was ruined by sequels and updates.. so long gw... im gonna go get tanked ( as in drunk to all you underaged dorks out there)...
GUILD WARS REST IM PEACE.. AND TO THE GAME CREATORS.. YOU CAN STOP BEATING THE DEAD HORSE NOW... ITS DEAD.. ITS NOT GOIN ANYWHERE........
so with that said prophecies is a legendary awsome one of a kind game.. that was ruined by sequels and updates.. so long gw... im gonna go get tanked ( as in drunk to all you underaged dorks out there)...
dameros
When i was doing a quest this corsair wizard just starts running past me and i didnt even attack him. OMG SO ANNOYING. i had to chase him and aggro all of these other monsters. THIS SUCKS I WANT MY MONEY BACK.
RoF
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Originally Posted by Pudin Tame
OK, we just tried the mission to get to the main island and it takes so long to kill things that it's not even worth it. This is absolutely horrible! I'll play again when I see an update.
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Just to name a few... I'm only listing skills that I have used at some point in my GW career and found to be effective.
Gale, Grasping Earth, Water Trident, Deep Freeze, Shard Strom, Ice Spikes, Ice Prison, Imagined Burden, Ethreal Burden, Frozen Burst, Mind Freeze, Crippling Shot, Hamstring, Axe Rake, Pin down....
Those were just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. There is no reason why you should have trouble chasing down fleeing enemies if a few people in your party take ONE of these skills, or ONE person in your party dedicates their bar to these kinds of skills.
bart
what i don't understand is why don't anet test the "improved" AI before coming out with the update. Are we suppose to be beta testers who try out the new stuff and then report here on GWG about the bugs?
Pudin Tame
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RoF
Let me make a suggestion. Take a player in your party that is devoted to slowing the enemy down /knocking the enemy down. There are plenty of skills for this purpose.
Just to name a few... I'm only listing skills that I have used at some point in my GW career and found to be effective. Gale, Grasping Earth, Water Trident, Deep Freeze, Shard Strom, Ice Spikes, Ice Prison, Imagined Burden, Ethreal Burden, Frozen Burst, Mind Freeze, Crippling Shot, Hamstring, Axe Rake, Pin down.... Those were just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. There is no reason why you should have trouble chasing down fleeing enemies if a few people in your party take ONE of these skills, or ONE person in your party dedicates their bar to these kinds of skills. |
Narutoscryed
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RoF
Let me make a suggestion. Take a player in your party that is devoted to slowing the enemy down /knocking the enemy down. There are plenty of skills for this purpose.
Just to name a few... I'm only listing skills that I have used at some point in my GW career and found to be effective. Gale, Grasping Earth, Water Trident, Deep Freeze, Shard Strom, Ice Spikes, Ice Prison, Imagined Burden, Ethreal Burden, Frozen Burst, Mind Freeze, Crippling Shot, Hamstring, Axe Rake, Pin down.... Those were just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. There is no reason why you should have trouble chasing down fleeing enemies if a few people in your party take ONE of these skills, or ONE person in your party dedicates their bar to these kinds of skills. |
If you think your the only one that knows skills and stuff you need to think again.. most of us have been playing sience the first day and even before.. so we know what to look for to solve a problem..
the problem is this shouldent be a problem in the first place.. most old players are tired of dealing with the constant crap of anet trying to please the pvp and new player croud..
its all snowballed into one big letdown.. NIGHTFALL
its funny the game that alota us old hats though would save the gw series.. ends up being totally ruined by and update a day before the game launch...
its almost as if anet said.. "YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT WOULD REALLY SCREW US OVER"
Thallandor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bart
what i don't understand is why don't anet test the "improved" AI before coming out with the update. Are we suppose to be beta testers who try out the new stuff and then report here on GWG about the bugs?
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It a shame we have to pay for the game to beta test their updates. A strange concept in the gaming industry.
Pudin Tame
Well, I just tried monking and that is near impossible. You've got warriors chasing running foes all over the map that need heals. You've got enemies scattered everywhere so there's no safe place to stand, and there's minions trying to escape damage and body blocking you. Ridiculous.
trielementz
haven't tried it out yet... but have you guys tried using the green flags to get your warriors to stop running? just a thought...