About farming, the economy, and the gameplay involved with these.
[DemoniC][EVL]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
Now suppose someone who knows the markets and how they work, bought a lot of minor vigor runes for 600g, when the prices were low. And he sells them now, for more then double the price. Would that be unfair?
I dont have any problems of acquiring 75k for 15k armor, playing the normal way. Most people just keep spending money for the wrong items. Save it and you can spend it later on that 15k armor.
Anyone want to buy minor vigor runes? Or Superior Death Mastery? Now, that's a problem right there. Most people don't have the money to even buy multiple of those runes to sell them for a higher price later, like that guy below you said who bought 30 runes. That's 24k in money, that's the whole point, how did he have 24k to begin with.
I wasn't spending money on useless things like you say, I'm saving it. But even with saving there's no way you have 75k by the end of the game, not even close to that. Monsters drop like what, 100gold sometimes. With a party of 8 you get even less drops and the money gets split. I'm not making close to the amount of money some people here claim they do.
I dont have any problems of acquiring 75k for 15k armor, playing the normal way. Most people just keep spending money for the wrong items. Save it and you can spend it later on that 15k armor.
Anyone want to buy minor vigor runes? Or Superior Death Mastery? Now, that's a problem right there. Most people don't have the money to even buy multiple of those runes to sell them for a higher price later, like that guy below you said who bought 30 runes. That's 24k in money, that's the whole point, how did he have 24k to begin with.
I wasn't spending money on useless things like you say, I'm saving it. But even with saving there's no way you have 75k by the end of the game, not even close to that. Monsters drop like what, 100gold sometimes. With a party of 8 you get even less drops and the money gets split. I'm not making close to the amount of money some people here claim they do.
cataphract
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijger
Anyone who runs around with FoW armor nowadays is called a noob and an eBay'er, I guess you prefer that?
My mesmer doesn't. 
My monk slaughtered Griffons, Hydras, Trolls and Giants by the thousands. My ele nuked and showered countless Stone Summit. My ranger ran across vast deserts to get to Balthazar-forsaken material crafters and lead hundreds of players to safety. All that work, bloodshed, fire, speed just to make one mesmer happy. All that just so she can have the most beautiful, the most expensive armor she can get. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in the rain because of e-bayers.
Do not make my mesmers brown eyes blue. Stop e-baying.
<insert mesmer sad face here>
My monk slaughtered Griffons, Hydras, Trolls and Giants by the thousands. My ele nuked and showered countless Stone Summit. My ranger ran across vast deserts to get to Balthazar-forsaken material crafters and lead hundreds of players to safety. All that work, bloodshed, fire, speed just to make one mesmer happy. All that just so she can have the most beautiful, the most expensive armor she can get. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in the rain because of e-bayers.
Do not make my mesmers brown eyes blue. Stop e-baying.
<insert mesmer sad face here>
[DemoniC][EVL]
Maybe if there were more legitimate ways to make money people wouldn't even think of ebay gold. Then again, I don't get why anyone would, you didn't earn it so that kind of ruins having it imo.
random.name
To the guys who quote ecenomic principles like supply and demand, you only did it in school right? The fact is that real economies cant be defined as simply as that. There is hundreds of different factors that affect commodity prices (aka gold, rares, etc.) than simple supply and demand.
I wont waste anyones time by going into that, but let it be enough that nerfing farming will in no real way make it better. By constantly adding new chapters Anet allready has the best way to keep the amounts of money down. My dervish allready has the best armor and weapons available at this stage. I also spent a boatload of plats on getting the best possible weapons for my heroes... So what would you say had the biggest effect on my cash? The farming? Hardly. I will just find a new way to do it when I feel like it.
To me it looks like Anet has someone up there who did economics in school/uni and now feels qualified to make calls on stuff like this. Sure, its a game, but I invest my time on this game. That gives me a valid reason to object to major changes like this.
I wont waste anyones time by going into that, but let it be enough that nerfing farming will in no real way make it better. By constantly adding new chapters Anet allready has the best way to keep the amounts of money down. My dervish allready has the best armor and weapons available at this stage. I also spent a boatload of plats on getting the best possible weapons for my heroes... So what would you say had the biggest effect on my cash? The farming? Hardly. I will just find a new way to do it when I feel like it.
To me it looks like Anet has someone up there who did economics in school/uni and now feels qualified to make calls on stuff like this. Sure, its a game, but I invest my time on this game. That gives me a valid reason to object to major changes like this.
garethporlest18
I'm not sure how I made my money really. I did farm a lot, but I never went in an area more than 5 times, cause I'd get bored. I'd usually just do one long run somewhere killing everything I could in the area making money like that. Then FoW, Ettin, Tombs and Chest runs. I have good luck or something because in the 16 months I've been playing I somehow amassed enough gold for 4 sets of FoW and about 5 sets of 15k over that time.
For NF I bought keys everytime I went out to an area. 4 each time, some exceptions of course, but I've never dropped below 38k and have stayed at a constant 41-45k the whole game buying keys and not selling anything but to the merchant. Doing that landed me 3 15^50 inscriptions plus a bunch of other max inscriptions plus a ton of runes..not just from chests but from enemies as well.
Also one tombs run can net you about 1.5-3k excluding Victo's Axe as every other green is cheap. The only thing that is nerfed is farming that bots were doing, what we lost UW, Trolls and Minos? Tons of other places out there that you can farm. Take a 2 hour trip to the Falls and you make about 5k in money drops just alone. Do nightly FoW and Tombs trips and you'll be making about 10-15k a day, just from those 3 things. Add some others in there, like outside Druids and you add another 3-5k.
Now not everyone has that kinda time, I understand that. So do one of those only, takes about 1-3 hours for each one. You can still make a good amount of money, or enough to get by in that time. Now if you don't like doing that and just like playing through the game but still want all that great armor and weapons stuff, think about your options. Playing through the game you can get lucky and net something worth a lot of money, but usually you'll make about 10k.
For NF I bought keys everytime I went out to an area. 4 each time, some exceptions of course, but I've never dropped below 38k and have stayed at a constant 41-45k the whole game buying keys and not selling anything but to the merchant. Doing that landed me 3 15^50 inscriptions plus a bunch of other max inscriptions plus a ton of runes..not just from chests but from enemies as well.
Also one tombs run can net you about 1.5-3k excluding Victo's Axe as every other green is cheap. The only thing that is nerfed is farming that bots were doing, what we lost UW, Trolls and Minos? Tons of other places out there that you can farm. Take a 2 hour trip to the Falls and you make about 5k in money drops just alone. Do nightly FoW and Tombs trips and you'll be making about 10-15k a day, just from those 3 things. Add some others in there, like outside Druids and you add another 3-5k.
Now not everyone has that kinda time, I understand that. So do one of those only, takes about 1-3 hours for each one. You can still make a good amount of money, or enough to get by in that time. Now if you don't like doing that and just like playing through the game but still want all that great armor and weapons stuff, think about your options. Playing through the game you can get lucky and net something worth a lot of money, but usually you'll make about 10k.
Daniel__
great post there, the only difference between all the blah blah you said and
"meh /cry i want gold and anet makes it too hard, old players are all ebayers"
None
"meh /cry i want gold and anet makes it too hard, old players are all ebayers"
None
Jetdoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by random.name
To the guys who quote ecenomic principles like supply and demand, you only did it in school right?
I wont waste anyones time by going into that, but let it be enough that nerfing farming will in no real way make it better. By constantly adding new chapters Anet allready has the best way to keep the amounts of money down. Isn't your comment inherently based in economic principles?
There are universal economic principles that apply to any type of currency system, even in this game.
1. Supply of Gold. The more currency there is circulating in an economy, the more expensive items are.
2. Supply of Items. The more readily available an item is, the less it will cost.
3. Demand for Items. The more people want an item, the more it will cost.
GuildWars has to balance all three of these, plain and simple.
Back to your comment:
The supply of gold is controlled through two mechanisms: New Gold and Gold Sinks. Gold is generated by killing monsters and completing quests. Gold Sinks (e.g. armor, materials, weapons, skills, keys) removes that gold from the economy.
The introduction of a new chapter is a Gold Sink, pure and simple. But that is only one factor (albeit a big one) in the grand scheme of things. The nerf to farming directly impacts the supply of gold as well, as less gold will be generated by killing monsters.
So, in short, your conclusion that "all of the other changes really don't matter" is flawed when you consider the impact to the other three facets of the economy.
I wont waste anyones time by going into that, but let it be enough that nerfing farming will in no real way make it better. By constantly adding new chapters Anet allready has the best way to keep the amounts of money down. Isn't your comment inherently based in economic principles?
There are universal economic principles that apply to any type of currency system, even in this game.
1. Supply of Gold. The more currency there is circulating in an economy, the more expensive items are.
2. Supply of Items. The more readily available an item is, the less it will cost.
3. Demand for Items. The more people want an item, the more it will cost.
GuildWars has to balance all three of these, plain and simple.
Back to your comment:
The supply of gold is controlled through two mechanisms: New Gold and Gold Sinks. Gold is generated by killing monsters and completing quests. Gold Sinks (e.g. armor, materials, weapons, skills, keys) removes that gold from the economy.
The introduction of a new chapter is a Gold Sink, pure and simple. But that is only one factor (albeit a big one) in the grand scheme of things. The nerf to farming directly impacts the supply of gold as well, as less gold will be generated by killing monsters.
So, in short, your conclusion that "all of the other changes really don't matter" is flawed when you consider the impact to the other three facets of the economy.
[DemoniC][EVL]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel__
great post there, the only difference between all the blah blah you said and
"meh /cry i want gold and anet makes it too hard, old players are all ebayers"
None Was this post aimed at me? If so maybe you don't fully understand my points. Perhaps I've explained them poorly, but a couple of facts remain. Sure some players have enough luck to get enough money just playing the game (so no WTS'ing for hours, no farming etc) but most players just aren't that lucky. In my experience and that from most people I know you can't make money the normal way, and the only way you can is constantly being nerfed.
I'm not trying to whine about it being too hard, it's not; it's impossible! Sure it should require effort to make money, but not like this...
And like I said before, what's wrong with having more ways to make money, imo it can only make the game more versatile and thus better.
edit: and I never said all old players are ebayers. Those players had the luxury of being able to farm indefinately before everything got nerfed further and further.
"meh /cry i want gold and anet makes it too hard, old players are all ebayers"
None Was this post aimed at me? If so maybe you don't fully understand my points. Perhaps I've explained them poorly, but a couple of facts remain. Sure some players have enough luck to get enough money just playing the game (so no WTS'ing for hours, no farming etc) but most players just aren't that lucky. In my experience and that from most people I know you can't make money the normal way, and the only way you can is constantly being nerfed.
I'm not trying to whine about it being too hard, it's not; it's impossible! Sure it should require effort to make money, but not like this...
And like I said before, what's wrong with having more ways to make money, imo it can only make the game more versatile and thus better.
edit: and I never said all old players are ebayers. Those players had the luxury of being able to farm indefinately before everything got nerfed further and further.
Yarrick
IMO Anet is making farming a bit more interesting, but not impossible. There are still ways to farm many places, just try using your head. With new skills and 2 new professions there is even more options. As for the prices, its natural that after a while they go down due to high availability of items. Spending hours trying to sell and item is frustrating, and can cut your profit since in those few hours you can farm something else. An auction house could be a good solution, but I dont know how hard it would be to implement it. Cheers to ya'all.
sumasage
Anet have full control the economy so it wont crash or ruin. If they see too much items or high prices they can increase drop rates, more gold drop, more green, etc... They did that to troll's drop, chest drops, etc... so don't tell me they cant do anything about the economy. I myself hated the so call AI improvement because it taking forever to get some gold now. Maybe Anet had a deal with people who sell gold on ebay.....j/k
Braggi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
Lot of money to spend = ability to pay insane amounts for items
If the money wasnt there, nobody would be buying it at the outragious prices, so the sellers would be forced to sell them at lower prices, since nobody can afford it.
Lot of money to spend = ability to pay insane amounts for selected items
But as a whole prices are trending down since a long time. I still remember 55 monk runes being 35~40k compared to 1/10 now - and I don't play that long.
For NF even the material prices didn't really spike any more like for factions. Just colors did during the preview, but their prices already calmed down too.
Until now prices seem to be under control - with every rare material channeled through the trader, A-Net might even cheat and fix prices - we would not know.
Greens has to be seen - some people claim they feel probabilities have been tuned down; on the other hand the tripple-chance weekend kept this front calm for nightfall too, as many players already stocked up needed equipment.
The paragon said it well. So far a new player can fairly easy get needed equipment to play, and still has a goal after hitting the end. The funny thing is what players feel they "need" for their 8+ characters...
Daniel__
No my post wasnt aimed at you it was aimed at everyone with that thought, and if you say making gold is impossible, excuse me but i refuse to believe every high end trader out there is a ebayer
Dariah
Farming, never hurt me one bit. Prices will allways be high for the über leet weapons/armor/whatever. Same goes for ebayers, do they really drive up prices that much? I hear everyone screaming about it, but NOBODY in this entire thread has any idea or proof it really does. You have no idea how the economy functions behind the screens, you do not know about droprates, about how rune/dyetraders make up their prices, you know NOTHING. Yet hundreds of people on the forums claim to know what farming/buying gold or the lack of it will do to the economy... Until I see someone with a masters degree in Guildwars Economics and a thorough study which proves any of these claims I would like to tell all of these people: stfu until you know what you're talking about.... 
And you want something done about prices or anything else for that matter? Go bitch at ANET, they are the ones who are GOD in the GW universe since they created it, they can affect every single aspect of GW, they could make sup vigors drop to 10 gold if they wanted...
And you want something done about prices or anything else for that matter? Go bitch at ANET, they are the ones who are GOD in the GW universe since they created it, they can affect every single aspect of GW, they could make sup vigors drop to 10 gold if they wanted...
The Pocky Alchemist
I see a thread like this every once in a while. Most of them run along pretty much the same lines.
Yeah, this game is hard for newbs. It's supposed to be hard. It took me forever to get my first set of armor, way back from Corwen or watever his name was, in Ascalon City. I did quests, I learned about the game, I killed stuff. GW is my first MMO; I only learned about farming after I fought my way to LA.
(With an ele. Which means death count = hours played X character level.
)
You can fight your way through it like I did, you can join a guild and get some support, you can bug your friends until they give you a couple K, whatever. I don't think it's that big of a deal. If ANet had designed the basic econ system after any of the ideas y'all are putting forth, there would still be threads just like this, razzing it from top to bottom.
Farming will not ruin the economy. Ebay Gold will not ruin the economy. Here is why.
Can you buy WoW gold? Yes.
Can you farm in WoW? Yes.
Can you do the same in just about every other MMO still considered popular? Yes.
ANet knew full well there'd be farming and Ebay, so it doesn't really matter. Any decent dev looks at the pros and cons of what's already out there before she starts welding her code together. A pioneering game? There's a good chance it might implode. A game modifying a tried-and-true template style? No way. Not happening. So you can stop worrying the economy'll bust.
That said... I fought through the game, and it wasn't all that long ago (playing-time wise) that I felt accomplished for getting my first 20k. I discovered the joys of healing prayers, and eventually I took the time to sniff up a 55 thread. Learned all about that. Bought, sold (mainly merch), played, farmed when I was bored. Never been to UW or FoW--not seriously, anyway. Just to look. Now I've got 100k+, and life's a lot easier. My biggest problem now is deciding which 15k Monk armor I want to buy.
It's a real monetary challenge when you're a new player, but that's how it is in real life, too. Avatars don't need to pay for food and clothes and rent if they want to survive. Humans do, and most of us've got support from families or whatever. Yeah, it's tough in the gameworld, but we can deal. Besides, it teaches you about how things work away from the keyboard. No Tyrian credit cards, no Xunlai Platinums with 0% APR until the Season of the Colossus.
I'm pretty sure ANet knows what they're doing. If they want to impress me, they can add interest to our savings accounts.
Yeah, this game is hard for newbs. It's supposed to be hard. It took me forever to get my first set of armor, way back from Corwen or watever his name was, in Ascalon City. I did quests, I learned about the game, I killed stuff. GW is my first MMO; I only learned about farming after I fought my way to LA.
(With an ele. Which means death count = hours played X character level.
)You can fight your way through it like I did, you can join a guild and get some support, you can bug your friends until they give you a couple K, whatever. I don't think it's that big of a deal. If ANet had designed the basic econ system after any of the ideas y'all are putting forth, there would still be threads just like this, razzing it from top to bottom.
Farming will not ruin the economy. Ebay Gold will not ruin the economy. Here is why.
Can you buy WoW gold? Yes.
Can you farm in WoW? Yes.
Can you do the same in just about every other MMO still considered popular? Yes.
ANet knew full well there'd be farming and Ebay, so it doesn't really matter. Any decent dev looks at the pros and cons of what's already out there before she starts welding her code together. A pioneering game? There's a good chance it might implode. A game modifying a tried-and-true template style? No way. Not happening. So you can stop worrying the economy'll bust.
That said... I fought through the game, and it wasn't all that long ago (playing-time wise) that I felt accomplished for getting my first 20k. I discovered the joys of healing prayers, and eventually I took the time to sniff up a 55 thread. Learned all about that. Bought, sold (mainly merch), played, farmed when I was bored. Never been to UW or FoW--not seriously, anyway. Just to look. Now I've got 100k+, and life's a lot easier. My biggest problem now is deciding which 15k Monk armor I want to buy.
It's a real monetary challenge when you're a new player, but that's how it is in real life, too. Avatars don't need to pay for food and clothes and rent if they want to survive. Humans do, and most of us've got support from families or whatever. Yeah, it's tough in the gameworld, but we can deal. Besides, it teaches you about how things work away from the keyboard. No Tyrian credit cards, no Xunlai Platinums with 0% APR until the Season of the Colossus.
I'm pretty sure ANet knows what they're doing. If they want to impress me, they can add interest to our savings accounts.
ikshan sharr ~OoO~
in my opinion there is no reason for this rant to be
i have found countless places to farm, and the places that i have found are way better than droks troll runs and they take less time too, 3 perfect golds in 30 mins, and 2 15^50 mods. i think that that is pretty good and thats also not counting the 3k in crafting mats and 1.5k in keys
i have found countless places to farm, and the places that i have found are way better than droks troll runs and they take less time too, 3 perfect golds in 30 mins, and 2 15^50 mods. i think that that is pretty good and thats also not counting the 3k in crafting mats and 1.5k in keys
guinevere
I think Anet didnt shut the door for farming... and I personaly can see why they call it bad.
What I don't understand is the big issue about OMG I CAN'T SS/55 anymore... because thats really what Anet just closed. The rest of the farming builds except for the IDS farming (I just 'farmed' 10 swords, 4 for myself(i have more accounts), rest i gave to my friends... who couldnt get 1) Some builds still work, others need some tweaking... big deal...
Yes, I made a lot of money running back and forth with Drok-runs... Anet tried to stop this aswel with changing the mobs there and the wurm. I still see runners and the many people spammin beacons with LFR to Droks 2k!
As been said before me, farming or making some money requires some thinking. You can not just go to the PvE build section and pull out some build and tell everybody in your guild/f-list haha i make xx p a hour...
Anet, i think, just wanted the online gold community to stop getting easy money. Due the fact of the major bot ban a couple months ago and the new monster AI. But hey, thats just me
The goal of every PvE player thats spend a lot of time getting his skills and gear is nice looking armor. Collectors can give max armor, but if everybody starts wearing collectors armor, I wonder what material prices will do... drop to 100g each? Ectos go even higher? Not to mention the 'oh u are an sin/mo and you are 1 too, we all look the same
. I'll have to see what happens with the prices. Meanwhile instead of crying about the lovely SS/55-build I'm more busy with my friends making new builds to make some money. Farming is playing a game too, and having a nice stuff is a part of the fun we get.
Anet changed a lot with the new update.... made Nightfall for like 80% a solo RPG (grats on that) and nerved the UW for most players... Both I can understand and confuse me at the same time.
What I don't understand is the big issue about OMG I CAN'T SS/55 anymore... because thats really what Anet just closed. The rest of the farming builds except for the IDS farming (I just 'farmed' 10 swords, 4 for myself(i have more accounts), rest i gave to my friends... who couldnt get 1) Some builds still work, others need some tweaking... big deal...
Yes, I made a lot of money running back and forth with Drok-runs... Anet tried to stop this aswel with changing the mobs there and the wurm. I still see runners and the many people spammin beacons with LFR to Droks 2k!
As been said before me, farming or making some money requires some thinking. You can not just go to the PvE build section and pull out some build and tell everybody in your guild/f-list haha i make xx p a hour...
Anet, i think, just wanted the online gold community to stop getting easy money. Due the fact of the major bot ban a couple months ago and the new monster AI. But hey, thats just me
The goal of every PvE player thats spend a lot of time getting his skills and gear is nice looking armor. Collectors can give max armor, but if everybody starts wearing collectors armor, I wonder what material prices will do... drop to 100g each? Ectos go even higher? Not to mention the 'oh u are an sin/mo and you are 1 too, we all look the same
. I'll have to see what happens with the prices. Meanwhile instead of crying about the lovely SS/55-build I'm more busy with my friends making new builds to make some money. Farming is playing a game too, and having a nice stuff is a part of the fun we get. Anet changed a lot with the new update.... made Nightfall for like 80% a solo RPG (grats on that) and nerved the UW for most players... Both I can understand and confuse me at the same time.
TechnoSword
Regular armor is just fine, but some people like myself want to go for the gold and get that 15k armor. Not for the stats or anything, for the look, and the ability to appreciate the hard work you did to get it. Earlier I beat NF with my paragon, however I want my Warrior to be the one with the 15k armor so now hes going through. Now I need 30k more tilll I get it, and its gotten alot harder I can tell you that.
Monk Klausner
Sorry, Dont have time to read the whole thing now ^^
Maybe later
-Monk Klausner-
Maybe later
-Monk Klausner-