Putting the Multiplayer back in Guild Wars

AydenV2

AydenV2

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

[TCD]

Mo/Me

Right now, this game feels like a single player game. No longer do you walk into outposts and see "LFM *quest*". They all do these quests by themselves with their new heroes. This might seems like its nice, but I big to differ.

Since there is no co-op activity anymore, the playerbase will become even farther away from each other as they already are. In my opinion Guild Wars has some increadibly rude people to begin with, but there was always the chance to meet a nice helpful person. Where is that person now? Doing a mission with his heroes so he doesn't have to deal with players.

PvP is becoming more flawed by the second now. 70% of the participants of HA should NOT be heroes and henchman! This is supposed to be player vs player, now it seems like nothing more than a new form of PvE activity.

Something I wrote up real fast, this is really bothering me, this game just doesn't feel the same anymore and no matter how hard I try, I just can't accept the changes, I propose this.

Heroes can be used in non-mission quests, secondary quests.

Heroes cannot be used for any form of PvP other than Hero Battles.

Heroes cannot be used in missions, if the mission calls for a specific hero, they will be added to the party as "Allies" and will be a generic henchman type player with basic skills and fixed stats and levels.

Thanks for reading.

legion_rat

legion_rat

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

668 the neighbor of the beast

TFK

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by AydenV2
Heroes cannot be used for any form of PvP other than Hero Battles.

Thanks for reading.
/signed

But only this one. It is Player Vs Player not Hero Vs Hero.

As for the others sorry but I have a hell of a time getting players for missions before NF. Seems like all i see anymore are lurkers.


~the glad he can read Rat~

Ebony Shadowheart

Ebony Shadowheart

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

USA

SSW

E/

Well, you hit the nail on the head. People don't want to bother with PuGs anymore because they don't want to deal with the numerous assholes in the game.

I can agree with removing the heroes from PvP, although I can understand why people use them. Considering the number of SNOBS (no, I'm not calling everyone a snob so don't get all pissy) in HA that won't let you into their group unless your ranked 'x' in fame makes it VERY hard for beginning PvPers to get anywhere. Their alternative? Take the heroes. But I can still agree to removing the heroes as it is supposed to person vs person not person vs npc.

I do not, however; agree with removing heroes from the missions. As I stated above, people don't want to bother trying to find decent groups. It's pain to try and find people in older missions or at certain times of the day. It's also a pain trying to find worthwhile people to play with. I'm sorry, but I don't enjoy playing with people that label me (and I'll point out again that LABELING PEOPLE IS WRONG!) a noob because I use a certain skill, or a certain build that works for me. I dislike being hollered and bitched at because I'm playing in my style, which I adapt so that it works with a group, and not how someone else thinks I should be playing MY character. And Goddess forbid that I mention that I don't understand someone's stupid slang term. Essentially people don't want to deal with this, and other issues (like leavers) so they opt to play with heroes, which are better than hench.

I'm sure someone will tell you to play with your guildmates if you want to play with real people, that seems to be a lot of people's solutions. 'Go play with your guildmates' and I'll point out before anyone says it, that not all of us belong to huge guilds where we can do that.

(Please note that I'm not actually bitching AT anyone, so don't take offence)

DergeDraconis

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Pennsylvania

Arkangels [ARK]

Agreed, Hero's have seriously cut the interaction between people out of the game, there is no longer a large sense of community. Its still there but not as much as before NF. Cut the hero cap down to 2 instead of 3, maybe that would help. I agree with Rat completely on cutting Hero's out of PvP all together. Personnally I wouldn't mind if they removed them completely as they dont listen, or effectively use skills half the time anyway.

MDeshame

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mo/

No thanks, Me + 3 heros + 4 Henchies = never having to deal with sorry a** players again. No offense, but when I log on, I log on to play, not to sit in town and spam LFG for 3 hours only to have the crappy PUG fail 47 seconds into it.

There never was a sense of community, unless you were a Tank, MM, Monk and Nuker, the rest be gone.

No more BS CAP group with promises of staying after their cap, only to CAP the monk's last, to guarantee you get your skill, and then you drop, ultimately leaving the monk the last person in the group.

No more putting up with being called a Noob because I don't this build or that build or because my Warrior doesn't bring Frenzy + Heal sig. No more I suxxors because I don't have a 100k +500 ectos + 200 black dye Fellblade.

Thank you Anet for this wonderful fix, I can now turn off local chat and trade channel when going into towns, and don't have to see Noob, !!!!!!!!!!!! \/\/ T S !!!!!!!!!!!!!, LFG, NEED MONKIE, or the 8 year old, mommy doesn’t know I’m online again, filthy trash talking, or the AOL CHAT ROOM PEDOPHILES THAT TYPE IN ALL CAPS, etc.

Hero's eliminate the rank who**e elitism, discrimination that excludes new players from even seeing HoH, much less playing (or attempting to play) them

If you absolutely need all that junk listed above, drop your heros and stand in town spamming “EXPEIRIENECD HAXXOR WAMMO THAT LEEROY JENKINS LFG
I’m 1337|/|355 oh btw \/\/ts something at ridiculously over inflated prices because you're a noob.” all you want, be sure to scroll it like 18 times in a row.

As far as the heroes not listening or use the skills effectively half the time, learn to properly set them up and control them. Put the skills in the proper order, and take a moment to manually control the hero and click the skill set you want it to use.

After showing my hero how to use the build between 1-4 times, it “gets it”, and runs it right. It doesn’t use Echo or dual attunement very well, but I remember a Healing monk/E that was spamming Meteor shower, Heal Party, and Rebirth (in the middle of battle) complaining he had no energy, so people tend to less “gifted” as well. The monk is no joke, it was in Abbadon.

The Player needs to look at what the player is doing wrong, not what "Anet needs to unbork, because it makes me look at what I may be doing wrong".

No, the Heroes need to stay. The correct solution is:
PvP for once, needs to learn to deal; perhaps your rank who**e isn’t so good.
PvE, learn to set your heros up for a proper team.

Dougal Kronik

Dougal Kronik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Ontario, Canada

Glengarry Fencibles

R/

/not signed

It's perfect the way it is. Now if I need a monk, he's there, if I need a MM, he's there. I can set their skills the way I want them, and success of failure is my fault now!

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

/not signed

Heroes are welcome relief for less wanted PVE classes, such as Mesmer

ironsavior

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2006

Inyurface Gaming [IYF]

Mo/A

I disagree... heroes are smarter than most human players. There is value in being able to throw a group together without having to find others.

Drewfense

Drewfense

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

Team Quitter [QQ]

Mo/Me

/signed

I hate to say it, but I miss PvEing with PuGs. It added an interesting challenge and interaction to the game. I found myself giving Koss mending and Zhed firestorm yesterday just so I could re-live the old times.

0mar

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

Heroes are the best to happen to GW PvE since the game was released. You + friend + heroes = no newbies at all in the group.

Link4009

Link4009

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

Elona

Ring of Canthan Knighs [ROCK]

/Not signed

Like Mdeshane said before, this is the solution to pain in the a** noobs who go all leeroy jenkins on you or leave because they don't like the skills your using.
Never again, I love my solitude, yes MMo/Co are cool and all, but only if you can get real players and not the (taken from Mdeshane's post) " !!!!!!!!!!!! \/\/ T S !!!!!!!!!!!!!, LFG, NEED MONKIE, or the 8 year old, mommy doesn’t know I’m online again, filthy trash talking, or the AOL CHAT ROOM PEDOPHILES THAT TYPE IN ALL CAPS, etc." crap seriously drives me up the wall, you can take this petition to Gaile Gray if you want, but they won't take out our heroes or nerf them from missions

Praetor

Praetor

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Somewhere over the rainbow

Devil Me [DEvM]

E/D

/signed

If anything, there's should be many instances where there cannot be more than 1-2-3, etc heros in the party. Any PvP arena, except HvH, should have a cap of 0 heros on the team. Although the invisible cap is 6 heros, some areas in PvE should have a cap of 2-3-4 etc, heros.
If you have a problem with the idiots/noobs/8-y.o/whatever in the community, maybe it's not them who's the problem, but rather yourself, as you've made no attempt to change their ways for the better.

Drewfense

Drewfense

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

Team Quitter [QQ]

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praetor
If you have a problem with the idiots/noobs/8-y.o/whatever in the community, maybe it's not them who's the problem, but rather yourself, as you've made no attempt to change their ways for the better.
WHOOOOOOA F THAT

I am all for reducing heros, but buying a game in NO way entails people to teach new players how to play the game. Often I see people attempt to tell others how to play better (I know I do), but normally you have to deal with that 8 year old mentality which is tremendously hard to break. Teaching someone who thinks they are king of guild wars, typing in caps how leet their build is since it was verified by Guild Wiki is a waste of time.

Those who actually have a desire to get better are a dime a dozen and rarely need people reaching out to them in game to help. They do it themselves.

0mar

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praetor
Although the invisible cap is 6 heros, some areas in PvE should have a cap of 2-3-4 etc, heros.
If you have a problem with the idiots/noobs/8-y.o/whatever in the community, maybe it's not them who's the problem, but rather yourself, as you've made no attempt to change their ways for the better.
Have you tried telling anyone that their build could use a few improvements? You will get horribly flamed, like you just killed their cat or something. Most people I've tried giving good advice to, in a polite, respectful way ("hey, you know that <skill> is pretty inefficienct compared to <skill>, try it out sometimes"), and the response is probably **** YOU, I'M FIERCE GLADIATOR or some other non-sense.

If I never have to deal with a pugger again, it'll be too soon.

Link4009

Link4009

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

Elona

Ring of Canthan Knighs [ROCK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0mar
Have you tried telling anyone that their build could use a few improvements? You will get horribly flamed, like you just killed their cat or something. Most people I've tried giving good advice to, in a polite, respectful way ("hey, you know that <skill> is pretty inefficienct compared to <skill>, try it out sometimes"), and the response is probably **** YOU, I'M FIERCE GLADIATOR or some other non-sense.

If I never have to deal with a pugger again, it'll be too soon.
ugh I know what u mean, this MM had no blood of the master and golem, fiend, minion, bone horror, and vamp horror, and I told him that to keep his minions alive longer he should take off a minion skill and put in Blood of the master and he tried to report me for harassment o.O

sotodefonk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/Me

My assassin is very happy with heroes... before nightfall, who added assassins in their party? Only a few ones.

I think is good the way it is right now.

Link4009

Link4009

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

Elona

Ring of Canthan Knighs [ROCK]

I added assassins, mostly because no one would take me because I was playing as a restoration ritualist ><

azuresun

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

WV, USA

Spirit of Elisha [SOE]

Me/

/not signed

Couldn't you just use henchmen in PvP before anyways? It's closer to PvP with hero's then henchmen.

Secondly, hero's are great in PVE. They are just henchmen that you have more control over. People have henched the first two campaigns without heros. It really doesn't change the game all that much.

Dravyn

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

/Not Signed, caps for emphasis..

no one is forced to play with heroes, but the option is available for those of us that DO want to play with them. Tired of people trying to force multi-play down everyone else's throat. I LIKE being able to do a mission with just me and my girlfiend, and not having to join groups of people that are more problem than they're worth. I'm sure guildies like playing with each other, and being able to use heros instead of having to rely on PuG's for missions.
Not to mention, I see LFG spam all the time, still.

Not A Fifty Five

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Creating guild

Mo/

/not signed

Agreed, I see lfg all the time as well. When I got near the end of the game, all my heroes were at their basic level lol. It was kinda annoying rly when I had to use a level 8 dunkoro when I couldn't find a group once.

Admittedly not playing with newbs, new people who want to learn -,-, isn't very nice. But its a good filter for nOObs:retarded idiots who talk in caps and don't listen to other people.

supaet

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

signed for the pvp part.

but heroes is an wonderful addition to pve. guild wars is not an mmo. Look at diablo2, how great it was, this game is a giant leap from diablo2, yet it still has many similarities. It is those similarities that defines this genre of online action rpg.

actionjack

actionjack

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Kali

W/E

All that is needed is a better LFG system (there were few graphical suggestion on that), and more activties that promote grouping with human players.

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

/notsigned

You want community? Go find a good guild. Like half the PUGs you find aren't going to have "community" but instead a bunch of racist/childest POS that I don't want to deal with.

Drewfense

Drewfense

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

Team Quitter [QQ]

Mo/Me

Even though dealing with PuGs suck, all of my current PvE friends are people that I found in a PuG at some point. It is hard to find a good guild if you know no one.

Kool Pajamas

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

What Guild Wars needs is more puzzle type areas. Think about in Presear when you had to have one person open the gate and the other go through to get to the Charr. Having things similar to that would help a lot i thnk. Having to think your way through the game instead of overpowering through is how an RPG should be.

MegaMouse

MegaMouse

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

south mississippi

Warriors Of Melos WOM

E/N

/SIGNED

The hero's idea is a good one but not in PVP and GVG battles. Although I have a suggestion in the main game: in missions let their be a cap as to how many hero's can be in a group, and have the hero's seperate from the main team, this may seem unfair to have a team of 4 players then the hero but it will increase interaction among players. Make the number of hero's available directly corelate with the number of player slots : 4 players 1 hero, 8 players 3 hero's and make it so that not just the leader can choose the hero, but a random player in the group does the choosing and give a time limit on choosing the hero. Pugs can and sometimes do ruin the game but that is part of the friends process, learning who can be trusted.

Mega Mouse

vaxmor

vaxmor

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Ascalon

R/

heroes do not draw male genitalia on the map.
therefore, heroes are better than ~50% of the GW population.

hero monks use energy management (if given a decent skill set)
therefore, heroes are better than ~80% of GW monks.

heroes do not call you a n00b for not being a W/MO, MO/W, MM, SS, double echo nuker
therefore, heroes are better informed than ~75% of the GW population.

QQ: dont like heroes?
solution: dont play with them - LFG for 1 hr instead and fail.

actionjack

actionjack

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Kali

W/E

Won't it be awsome if Koss start drawing male genitalia on the map?
Such human like AI... its like they are Skynet.

Mesmer in Need

Mesmer in Need

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

[ToA]

i think the problem is too many stupid or impatient players. people dont want to play with a stupid heal party spammer monk. and to find good people, you have to wait a little, and people dont want to do this. i think that heros or henchies should be only used to fill in a sopt where you cant find a good human player, not the other way around. although, alot of the time i do mini quests with henchman, but most of the time they are too short to have to make a big deal of finding monks, going out, etc etc. but during mission or big quests, i try to go with real people. in pvp, i hate npc's. i tried henchway once. 2 words : sucks @ss. in pvp, i will always go with real people.

/signed

Avatara

Avatara

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

/signed

I've played NF for a few days now with heroes and henchmen only and I explored 79% of the map with no problem. I also did all the missions. The main reason for this was because I couldn't find a people to play with.

Please make one hero max per player!

Jetdoc

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

/signed.

I agree wholeheartedly on the PvP issue.

I also agree that certain areas of PvE, such as the Underworld, Fissure of Woe and the Elite Missions should not allow heroes or henchmen. I would add the Tomb of Primevil Kings and other select "mini-mission" areas as well.

I disagree, though - Heroes/Henchmen SHOULD be allowed on quests and missions. That is the point of them - to round out a party that may be missing a player or two.

Jetdoc

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by actionjack
its like they are Skynet.
Awesome reference.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

For people like me who play ungodly hours on occasions heroes are a god send when it comes to missions/quests BUT given a choice I'll take PuG over heroes any day.

Simple reason...playing with PuG can be highly amusing, playing with heroes is just dull..they don't speak, they don't make poor attempts at body blocking/pulling...I need to be entertained otherwise I get bored after 10mins and log off.

/Not Signed
/Signed for no Heroes in PvP

[DE]

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

/not signed for PvE part (I would like to use my heroes during quests and missions.... how else will they level up?)

/signed about PvP part. Heroes should be used in PvE and Hero v Hero only. They should be banned from TA, GvG, and HA.

anonymous

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

PvE- Some people don't like PuGs just as much as you don't like them going solo. Stop trying to force your playstyle on others.

PvP- If groups would accept people without rank we probably would have about 10-20% henchmen groups. Those would probably be people that don't have time to form a group but want to HA.

Xenrath

Xenrath

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/Me

An idea which I think could work for everyone:

- Keep the Heroes/hench as they currently are, including being able to use them in missions etc.

- Add a special bonus/reward of some kind the more humans you have in a team. This would be an OPTIONAL goal for people to aim for (maybe title or something like that) e.g. 100% teamplay bonus if you finish the mission with 100% human team, less reward for less humans in the party.

This way there is at least SOME incentive for people to team up, because they get something out of it. And the ones who don't like to team with anyone aren't affected because they can still use the heroes and henchies just fine. Please don't whine about not getting rewarded for teamplay, if you don't like teaming up with people to start with

Kamer

Kamer

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

North Pole, Alaska

Where Iz Teh Bonuz

N/E

/signed
On the PvP part, we have Heros Arena for that.
On the PvE part, they're there to take a spot of someone whos missing, maybe cap it, but alot of the players I met were from doing missions, and I had joined the guild im currently in late one night at The Ring of Fire.

@ Xenrath's idea : Maybe build on that? Maybe make it so you can only get the minimum reward (No Masters, etc.) from working with Heros?

AydenV2

AydenV2

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

[TCD]

Mo/Me

Thank you for all your replys, I never would have thought the playerbase is so split on opinions! Keep them coming, maybe if this thread gets large enough ANet will take a peek at it.

gasmaskman

gasmaskman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

None, I don't play anymore.

Mo/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by azuresun
It's closer to PvP with hero's then henchmen.
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard (well, close :P )

How can it be PvP without actually people? Answer me that. Yeah, there's one person. Fun. That's not the way it was created. I don't want to spend half my damn time in HA fighting AI, I want to fight real people, I want a challenge, I want to beat someone who's better than me, not someone who just unlocked some heroes and flew right into the game.

Sure, it beats the hell out of starting out in HA with no rank, but you know what? There's this thing, in the game, if you haven't figured out, called "guilds," which can really help you get started with your PvPing, and helping you achieve rank. I once had 0 fame, but I don't anymore. That one guy, he'll come along, brand new to the game, and if he wants to HA, he'll get his fame, just like I did. Sure, it took a long time, it was fine though.

So, /signed for no heroes in HA.
/Notsigned for the PvE section of that.

BahamutKaiser

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

A vast number of people have been using Henchmen for several purposes, quest, mission and otherwise, the fact that we have useful solo options doesn't mean we can't group, it just means we don't have to.

I haven't played with a single person since I started Nightfall, Admittedly, I don't care to either. But, since there is a 4 hero cap, having a second person with 3 heros in an 8 man party is a pretty good option.

The use of heros allows us to build an entire party with skills geared to compliment eachother. The only reason to party with other players is to gain even better companions, if players were good enough to outmatch a coordinated hero team, and in some cases I'm sure they are, than it is worth wile to have teammates, otherwise, heros are simply better.

Taking heros out of missions and PvP basicly takes them out of all significant aspects of the game, they didn't add such an effective tool just to be used a fraction of the time. And no matter how much you like to play with other people, many players who play particular classes have extremely difficult times putting together decent parties, you say having hero parties is boring, I say having no party is unaccpetable. The ability to put a party together without the dependancy of other players is a god sent, and however you feel about it isn't going to have it removed from the game, more players like it so much, that they will play non-stop since they don't have to wait around for nothing day after day.