So... what's with the new freaky updates? The battlefield these days looks like a circus, monsters running around everywhere doing nothing they're supposed to do...
Why were these updates implanted in the first place?
Is it because A-net want the monsters to be more realistic? I'm sure some people will say 'lol finally we got a challenge', but the old AI was a challenge enough for me. I still had problems with missions, unless I had a good team, but now even the best team won't work cause the battlefield is too unpredictable now.
The monsters now run past me (a Warrior) and go for the monks. The monks stop doing ANYTHING and run away as fast as they can, with monsters following them. And after being hit 2 or 3 times, the monks die and monsters move on with other casters. WTF? Why do warriors even wear armor these days? We are barely getting attacked, and IF we are attacked it's too late anyway since all the healers are dead and there's nobody to save us.
So as a warrior, I can't attack anything now. If I attack a caster, they run away and I can't attack melee users either, cause they are too busy chasing my monks.
So... is this what a true intelligent AI is all about?
PvE Battlefield: total chaos!
reetkever
dgb
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Originally Posted by reetkever
So... is this what a true intelligent AI is all about?
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crimsonfilms
If they got your monk - then yes I would think that is intelligent - actually more intelligent than many PUGs. I mean, it is no secret that monks and soft targets should be your primary targets as often as possible.
Bring a snare and a bit of warrior hate next time. Try to out think them :0
Bring a snare and a bit of warrior hate next time. Try to out think them :0
Chilly Ress
It's like normal intelligent monsters/people - like in pvp!
led-zep
yup anet killed a good game by over nerfing, there is nothing 'intelligent' , 'harder to play' or 'better ai' about monsters that run halfway across a map, its just bloody frustrating and boring to spend half your time chasing and no snares arent always an option and why the hell should you have to snare every enemy just to be able to attack them.
no doubt we'll have the sheep who think everything anet do is great reply in defense but they have cocked the game up totally, its just not fun anymore, its a chore to play.
or the pvp morons who never play pve will comment about how its good because its more like the elitist side of the game
no doubt we'll have the sheep who think everything anet do is great reply in defense but they have cocked the game up totally, its just not fun anymore, its a chore to play.
or the pvp morons who never play pve will comment about how its good because its more like the elitist side of the game
reetkever
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Originally Posted by Chilly Ress
It's like normal intelligent monsters/people - like in pvp!
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And that's the whole problem. I didn't buy GW Nightfall to play PvP
I didn't buy armor pieces with 80 armor to not get attacked anyway
And I don't take casters in my team just for them to die.
So this is what an 'intelligent monster' thinks: attack low armor/if attacked run away until not being chased. Wow if that's what PvP is all about as well, I'm sure I'm not missing anything.
EternalTempest
Umm combat and the art of killing other people is NOT all neat, clean and orderly. People/Monsters don't want to die
I like the AI it seems more realistic. And the bulk of my playing has been and is PvE.
I like the AI it seems more realistic. And the bulk of my playing has been and is PvE.
reetkever
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Originally Posted by EternalTempest
Umm combat and the art of killing other people is NOT all neat, clean and orderly. People/Monsters don't want to die
I like the AI it seems more realistic. And the bulk of my playing has been and is PvE. |
This is what they should call all the caster henchies:
Mhenlo [Run Away Henchman]
Eve [Run Away Henchman]
Cynn [Run Away Henchman]
casters don't do ANYTHING except running away. They don't heal, don't attack, don't cast stuff like Fireball, they all friggin run away all the time... Casters have lost their value now, and so did melee users, cause they can't even hit the enemy.
Carth`
Have we been playing a different game? My aggro has been perfect. The monsters REFUSE to attack anything except the person with the highest AL. It's too easy. I wish the game was more like how you describe.
The one thing that does annoy me is the monks (the monsters) run away at the slightest amount of damage, and keep running for ever! They run right across the whole map, through 5 more mobs. The AI lured me.
The one thing that does annoy me is the monks (the monsters) run away at the slightest amount of damage, and keep running for ever! They run right across the whole map, through 5 more mobs. The AI lured me.
Trin Storm
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Originally Posted by Carth`
Have we been playing a different game? My aggro has been perfect. The monsters REFUSE to attack anything except the person with the highest AL. It's too easy. I wish the game was more like how you describe.
The one thing that does annoy me is the monks (the monsters) run away at the slightest amount of damage, and keep running for ever! They run right across the whole map, through 5 more mobs. The AI lured me. |
It aint that way anymore...
supaet
keep things in one thread please
Spydergst1
Have you tried , knockdowns, crippling, none shall pass?
It would be interesting to see if a tank runs in and the casters stay back just long enough for the tanks to take aggro. Once aggro has been estaqbished have the casters run in and heal & deal.
It would be interesting to see if the monsters will break aggro off the tanks once the monks and casters come in or if they will hold the aggro until the tank is daed.
Keep in mind that only the tanks should be in range of the monsters until aggro is established.
It would be interesting to see if a tank runs in and the casters stay back just long enough for the tanks to take aggro. Once aggro has been estaqbished have the casters run in and heal & deal.
It would be interesting to see if the monsters will break aggro off the tanks once the monks and casters come in or if they will hold the aggro until the tank is daed.
Keep in mind that only the tanks should be in range of the monsters until aggro is established.
Phoenix Ex
From my testing, it seems that they break off to attack the casters even if the warrior run in far far ahead. Maybe other people can confirm this...
reetkever
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Originally Posted by Spydergst1
Have you tried , knockdowns, crippling, none shall pass?
It would be interesting to see if a tank runs in and the casters stay back just long enough for the tanks to take aggro. Once aggro has been estaqbished have the casters run in and heal & deal. It would be interesting to see if the monsters will break aggro off the tanks once the monks and casters come in or if they will hold the aggro until the tank is daed. Keep in mind that only the tanks should be in range of the monsters until aggro is established. |
DvM
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Originally Posted by reetkever
Yes I did try this. I ordered my henchies to stay back and I aggroed a group. Then I canceled the order so henchies could back me up, but immediately the monsters ran away from me and went for the monks.
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please, this is whine thread #28542826... serious people, adapt..it isent so hard.
Tha Ai get ssome smarter? they now attack your monks? FINALLY! Maybe you could now try to bring some team support instead of only damage... and for heavens sake, adapt...
KamikazeChicken
You can complete almost (I'm only to the Vortex, so I don't know about the rest) all of Nightfall with hench and heroes, so I don't think monster AI needs to be reduced. What people seem to be encountering more and more is their own inability to judge what should be done in a battle and to properly control henchmen, even with the wonderful new flag system.
SilentAssassin
I like new AI changes
k, I agree sometimes when the enemy monk start running miles away, its kinda irritating, but overall, I love it.
k, I agree sometimes when the enemy monk start running miles away, its kinda irritating, but overall, I love it.
Eclair
Well, maybe its finally time to dust off those useful utility spells?
I mean, a ton of skills were not used in PvE simply because monsters were ridiculously stupid, now maybe its time to actually spice it up a bit. We can change skills/professions/attributes at every output/town.
I mean, a ton of skills were not used in PvE simply because monsters were ridiculously stupid, now maybe its time to actually spice it up a bit. We can change skills/professions/attributes at every output/town.
reetkever
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Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken
You can complete almost (I'm only to the Vortex, so I don't know about the rest) all of Nightfall with hench and heroes, so I don't think monster AI needs to be reduced. What people seem to be encountering more and more is their own inability to judge what should be done in a battle and to properly control henchmen, even with the wonderful new flag system.
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Well before this update, everything was fine, but now even good balanced teams without monks/heroes get wrecked. There's no point in being warrior, I can't hit something and I'm not being hit. I don't need armor and don't need a weapon. I've tried stuff liek hamstring, but I can't even reach my target cause the target's too busy chasing the monk all the time.
Controlling henchmen is impossible now - everything you tell them to do or call gets ignored because they are busy running away (heck they are barely healing themselves, no wonder they die in 3 friggin melee attacks)
In real party, the field is a total chaos, warriors chase the enemy monks throughout the entire map, aggroing 4 other mobs, casters get wrecked because they don't have enough armor to survive (sure, the monk heals some, but it can't heal against 7 monsters attacking 1 elementalist with no self heal and only 60 armor) and rangers have no idea what to do - save the monks or attack the enemy monks.
Phoenix Ex
The flag system does NOT allow control of henchmen separately. Which mean you are forced to use a warrior hero even when you want to try something else. Even with the flag system, the enemy monk and casters still run the moment you approach them. All the flag system do is to prevent further aggro, but still slowing down the battle. No, I don't want to be forced to dedicate one of my hero just for snares.
Adapting does not make it any more fun to play at all.
Adapting does not make it any more fun to play at all.
Trin Storm
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Originally Posted by SilentAssassin
I like new AI changes
k, I agree sometimes when the enemy monk start running miles away, its kinda irritating, but overall, I love it. |
I note there is no update notes on the offical site. I wonder if there was an unintential change or something.
Lets Get to Healing
Guild Wars: Modern Combat. :P
It's like PvPing but the enemies are a little more intelligent.
It's like PvPing but the enemies are a little more intelligent.
Phoenix Ex
Correction: dumb. If I am a monster monk at lvl 26 with uber armor and health....I won't run 2 radar backward when I am attacked
King's Spectre
Yeah I *almost* made it though the game before yesterday's tweak. It was great fun to use riposte in a non-solo setting! Oh well.. got crushed last night, but I'm getting better at controlling the henchies/heros.
About the best I can do is run up and soak up the initial attacks, after that it's a bit of a free-for-all.
About the best I can do is run up and soak up the initial attacks, after that it's a bit of a free-for-all.
DvM
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Originally Posted by Eclair
Well, maybe its finally time to dust off those useful utility spells?
I mean, a ton of skills were not used in PvE simply because monsters were ridiculously stupid, now maybe its time to actually spice it up a bit. We can change skills/professions/attributes at every output/town. |
nuff said...
swiftygem
Wow, it seems that if Anet changed GW to black and white Pong, we would still have people here telling us to stop whining and adapt...
Seriously, I'm not even out of Istan island yet and it pisses me off like hell. Yes, the idea of targeting monks or generally casters is great, but only in PvP, where there are real people behind those characters. Henchies/heroes just can't deal with this, plain and simple.
Seriously, I'm not even out of Istan island yet and it pisses me off like hell. Yes, the idea of targeting monks or generally casters is great, but only in PvP, where there are real people behind those characters. Henchies/heroes just can't deal with this, plain and simple.
reetkever
Really, how is this like PvP? I never PvP, but if PvP is all about chasing each other and running away instead of actually casting spells or having a strategy, I 'm glad I'm a PvE'er
The 2 updates in the last week really ruined it for me:
no farming okay, it just takes loads of time to get a decent amount of money
no playing quests/missions because our real player team gets wrecked all the time: how the hell am I supposed to 'adept' to that? I can't get further in the game now, real player teams already are rare in the mission I'm stuck, and now it has to be a perfect team with every member having to be Mo primary/secondairy for self heal.
Battlefields are now a total chaos, there's no strategy and no roles for professions. If that's what a Guild Wars battle should be, then I might as well stop playing -_-
I can't see what's wrong with the AI we had before Nighfall came out, caster monsters didn't run away but actually attacked and used skills, and warriors actually used their armor of 80 points to endure damage (geez they don't have all the armor spells, protection stances and high armor for nothing, they are MADE to take hits)
The 2 updates in the last week really ruined it for me:
no farming okay, it just takes loads of time to get a decent amount of money
no playing quests/missions because our real player team gets wrecked all the time: how the hell am I supposed to 'adept' to that? I can't get further in the game now, real player teams already are rare in the mission I'm stuck, and now it has to be a perfect team with every member having to be Mo primary/secondairy for self heal.
Battlefields are now a total chaos, there's no strategy and no roles for professions. If that's what a Guild Wars battle should be, then I might as well stop playing -_-
I can't see what's wrong with the AI we had before Nighfall came out, caster monsters didn't run away but actually attacked and used skills, and warriors actually used their armor of 80 points to endure damage (geez they don't have all the armor spells, protection stances and high armor for nothing, they are MADE to take hits)
Jetdoc
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Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex
Correction: dumb. If I am a monster monk at lvl 26 with uber armor and health....I won't run 2 radar backward when I am attacked
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Yes, you are intelligent for kiting.
Sid Soggybottom
I noticed no problems while playing through the campaign both before or after the Halloween update. I won't comment on other people's experience yet since they possibly might have a huge glitch that I havent encountered but it just seems like another few cases of people complaining simply because they can't sit there and click buttons mindlessly.
Shaden
Try using a speed buff to grab an enemy and use a hamstring/bulls charge? How about using "Coward!" to knock them down, or elementalist snares/KDs? Maybe if you utilized your heroes better, you wouldn't be chasing an enemy all over.
There's no need to complain because the enemies are more intellegint now. Instead of mindless killing, prehaps some real strategy should be thought out? Pull them back farther so they don't aggro other mobs. Drop a DPS to get somebody who will actually help you.
Honestly, I play a warrior and I am having no problem on my Hammer/Axe keeping aggro at all. I just think difficult pulls out now instead of zerging everything and knowing I will win because the enemy monk sits there and takes massive blows all day.
There's no need to complain because the enemies are more intellegint now. Instead of mindless killing, prehaps some real strategy should be thought out? Pull them back farther so they don't aggro other mobs. Drop a DPS to get somebody who will actually help you.
Honestly, I play a warrior and I am having no problem on my Hammer/Axe keeping aggro at all. I just think difficult pulls out now instead of zerging everything and knowing I will win because the enemy monk sits there and takes massive blows all day.
Silent Coyote
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
Yes, you are intelligent for kiting.
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I'd like to add I also had no problem yesterday (apart from the ocassional caster running off for no reason at all), and am two missions away from completing Nightfall - but today it does indeed seem to be much worse.
Narutoscryed
I have seen some stoopid people in my day.. REALLY STOOPID.. but it still pales in comparison to an ele hench that cancles every spell she casts, runs outa energy then runs aways..
I even had some fun with my ele hero.. i put 2 skills in his skillbar.. echo and meteor shower..
he ran up to the crowd and fired a meteor shower.. then canceled it and then cast echo!!!!! lol i had a good laugh..
or my monk that intterupts his own word of healing all the time..
or my necro that refuses to make minions due to the fact that he cancles every minnion spell like halfway through..
all this adds up to a full party of henches and heros.. with no energy about 5 seconds into the fight... BUT DAMN CAN THEY KITE!!!!!!!
now if this is the pvp that some of you are used to playing.. then you need to stop playing the game alltogether... for your own personal saftey..
I even had some fun with my ele hero.. i put 2 skills in his skillbar.. echo and meteor shower..
he ran up to the crowd and fired a meteor shower.. then canceled it and then cast echo!!!!! lol i had a good laugh..
or my monk that intterupts his own word of healing all the time..
or my necro that refuses to make minions due to the fact that he cancles every minnion spell like halfway through..
all this adds up to a full party of henches and heros.. with no energy about 5 seconds into the fight... BUT DAMN CAN THEY KITE!!!!!!!
now if this is the pvp that some of you are used to playing.. then you need to stop playing the game alltogether... for your own personal saftey..
aubee
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Originally Posted by EternalTempest
Umm combat and the art of killing other people is NOT all neat, clean and orderly. People/Monsters don't want to die
I like the AI it seems more realistic. And the bulk of my playing has been and is PvE. |
People playing warriors who don't like the monster warriors running past them to kill their monk should try a speed buff and a cripple to slow them down and kill them before they get to the monk. What's the fun in sending in a tank and nuking the crap out of a ball of enemies anyway? Is that supposed to be fun and challenging? Bots could do that. Apparently a few simple changes to the AI has made the monsters smarter than many GW players. Sad.
reetkever
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Originally Posted by Shaden
Try using a speed buff to grab an enemy and use a hamstring/bulls charge? How about using "Coward!" to knock them down, or elementalist snares/KDs? Maybe if you utilized your heroes better, you wouldn't be chasing an enemy all over.
There's no need to complain because the enemies are more intellegint now. Instead of mindless killing, prehaps some real strategy should be thought out? Pull them back farther so they don't aggro other mobs. Drop a DPS to get somebody who will actually help you. Honestly, I play a warrior and I am having no problem on my Hammer/Axe keeping aggro at all. I just think difficult pulls out now instead of zerging everything and knowing I will win because the enemy monk sits there and takes massive blows all day. |
I tried this as well, but when I hit sprint I run with the same speed as an enemy monster. And the enemy monk does NOT just sit there, the enemy monk's already fled through half the map. And utilizing heroers is useless, cause they don't do anything except running/interrupting their own spells all the friggin time
Sid Soggybottom
Here's a hint for people who have problems chasing down a runner even with snares. DONT DO IT. Just kite backwards away from the mob and the runners will run back towards you. Or simply switch targets and switch back when the runner comes back.
Just don't ever chase a runner into another group of monsters. Then you're just proving the A.I. is smarter than you.
Just don't ever chase a runner into another group of monsters. Then you're just proving the A.I. is smarter than you.
Perkunas
If this AI change was meant for NF, then why am I having to deal with it in Prophesies? An area that use to take a couple of hours to clear now takes up to 6 hours from having to chase every monster out there to kingdom come and back. If that is what NF is going to be about, I am not spending my money on it. I didn't care much for factions and if I am now sampling NF in Prophesies, I don't like the previews.
reetkever
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Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom
Here's a hint for people who have problems chasing down a runner even with snares. DONT DO IT. Just kite backwards away from the mob and the runners will run back towards you. Or simply switch targets and switch back when the runner comes back.
Just don't ever chase a runner into another group of monsters. Then you're just proving the A.I. is smarter than you. |
When I switch target from monk to elemetalist, the monk's already returned to heal, when I even TARGET the monk, it runs away again. I don't even have to hit it.
EternalTempest
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Originally Posted by reetkever
So you're saying that it's okay to run away when being targetted by something all the friggin time? I didn't know that 'the art of killing other people' was like a game of tag.
This is what they should call all the caster henchies: Mhenlo [Run Away Henchman] Eve [Run Away Henchman] Cynn [Run Away Henchman] casters don't do ANYTHING except running away. They don't heal, don't attack, don't cast stuff like Fireball, they all friggin run away all the time... Casters have lost their value now, and so did melee users, cause they can't even hit the enemy. |
I do see enemy monks / 2nd running away but that's after I have a enough nuking heat to where there in real danger and there tanks are to pre-occupied to save them. Which seems like a valid situation to go run / regroup.
Deleet
I don't get this.
I hero'ed the game in two days and i never had any problems with monsters running away.
There are two solutions when they run,
- bring a single snare skill (you have 8x4 skills to choose..) and as someone said, time to bring back the utility skills into the other 50% of the game.
or
- switch targets and they will come back, trying to heal/cast, then just attack them again, they usually don't run twice. Also remember that you dont need everyone to follow them, just send a warrior after it if it's such a big problem.
Also, they don't heal while running.
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Holding aggro is as easy as it always was, that's why the monsters are lvl 20+, because they are stupid.
I hero'ed the game in two days and i never had any problems with monsters running away.
There are two solutions when they run,
- bring a single snare skill (you have 8x4 skills to choose..) and as someone said, time to bring back the utility skills into the other 50% of the game.
or
- switch targets and they will come back, trying to heal/cast, then just attack them again, they usually don't run twice. Also remember that you dont need everyone to follow them, just send a warrior after it if it's such a big problem.
Also, they don't heal while running.
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Holding aggro is as easy as it always was, that's why the monsters are lvl 20+, because they are stupid.
Executioner
I think the new Ai is great, even if it has hammperd my farming ability , basicly the monsters are alot more intellegent, which is what i want from my game, if you have an ele hero change him to water, he will then snare the hell out of any target you choose and you can slaughter it, plain and simple, how many water eles were used in pve.. errm yeah none.. now its like a must have, water snare and meteor showers ftw 
, basicly the monsters are alot more intellegent, which is what i want from my game, if you have an ele hero change him to water, he will then snare the hell out of any target you choose and you can slaughter it, plain and simple, how many water eles were used in pve.. errm yeah none.. now its like a must have, water snare and meteor showers ftw