Pros and Cons of NightFall

I been playing guild wars since it came out and I would like to do a pros and cons on nightfall. Anyone else can add his/hers pros and cons. You MUST have both. You have to put down a pro and a con. Anyways I'll start it off.


Pros

The Wurms you get to play.
The butt load of new armors.
Titles that acually gives you a reward for completing them.
A huge baddy at the end of the game.
Heros can help people out in places that pugs can't.
All the new features that came along with NF like dye viewing, salvaging, showing what skills are on the bar to party, and many others.


Cons

Seemed to be rushed a little or maybe a lot.
Some titles impossible to get untill more quests are added in.
The game is beatable in 24 hours and there is nothing else to do besides do it again with another character.
Some heros running off and aggroing more groups but i think this got fixed.

It's not helping to build a bigger fan base:
1. Armor inscription feature is not unlockable feature in PVE for Heros. Cost up to 100K and all the loots my Dev had collected to build an incomplete team with 2 lvl 20 monks, 1 lvl 20 warrior, and me lvl 20 Dev not with max armor (btw I'm only using major vigor for these toons, collector's weapons from GWP and GWF, and preorder weapon for my Dev.)

Lucky I have gold to build the heros and I just dont feel like to go through the campain again.

I really feel sorry for all new players.
Words are spreading around that alot of players need to ebay for golds.
GWF have already caused a sour taste in GW community, and now I won't see any better in GWN due to not new players friendly, alot of good games are out and so two new console.

Hopefully the Anet team will look more into this for coming release.

Excuse and sorry for my bad English as it is my second and not frequently spoken. Yet I want to share my point of view about the game with the community.

Pros

-PvE content better than factions (IMO).
-The Wurms are a neat touch.
-New Armour. Always a plus.
-More titles.
-Heros have helped me avoid dumb PUG's for the most part, and are better than a full henchie team.
-Henchies improved.
-New dye and salvage screens.


Cons

-Insignias. Good try on it, but it just feels out of place, wheras you could've just used Cantha's armour system again. It makes buying armour that much more expensive as well just to get it to the standard of pre-nightfall armour. I could take Nightfall characters back to previous chapters so I don't have to spend a fortune on what should be reletively cheap.
-New armour isn't that good looking for a lot of professions. And the statless-without-insignias part means that I don't have an incentive to buy any of them.
- Heros promote everyone to head through the game alone, even though there's loooads of people in the first lot of towns.
-Henchie AI still isn't that good. You get killed, and even with two monk henchmen and the rest of the team alive, the monks would rarther wand to death than ressurect you.
-The massive amount of people complaining about the PvE content. C'mon, better than factions.

---

So, yes. I did touch on the same points in Pros and Cons, but that's simply because I can't find something good about them without finding something bad

I'd have mostly pro points or praise if I were to make a list. I'll refrain from that and just mention a couple things.

Tihark Orchard mission. I for one think this is a very refreshing and fun mission that is enjoyable to do. It's nice to have a mission that is more about just goofing around and less about killing, or being killed. I saw it as a kind of breather mission and would like to see more of these mixed in amongst the harder missions in future projects.

Sunspear and Lightbringer title tracks. Ignoring some vocal disapproval of this, I love the addition. The ranks required for benefit or moving to the next step in the story are quick and easy enough to achieve and set at appropriate levels. Sure they may slow down a person who's only objective is to run from one mission to the next, but playing the game as intended they're not a chore at all.

Storyline and voice acting is excellent. I read many complaints during Factions play through concerning this and they did a great job improving this in Elona.

The only 'negative' thing that I feel like mentioning or is even worth mentioning is the manner in which alternative hero armor is acquired. Since it's not required to get it I don't see it as a huge deal though. It would be nice to be able to get them through a quest/series of quests or something. I did the wurm challenge just enough to map the area and I don't believe I'll do it again. I guess that part could be added on to the negative too - having a challenge mission as part of cartography, essentially forcing mappers to do it.

PvP? Besides, most games are beatable in 24 hours if you play them solidly.

I dont' understand how you can reach these conclusions. Anyone that ebays for gold in this game is utterly lazy, and will most likely ebay gold in any game they play. Money is so incredibly easy to make in this game, its almost like it falls out of the sky into your bank :P

GWF to me was great, and I never understood the complaints. GWN to me is even better, and again, i don't understand the complaints. I'll tell you this - I don't feel sorry for new players...GWN makes it easier than its ever been, especially with fully buildable heroes.
Personally I think Anet did a kick ass job. I can't understand where some of you develop your negativity.

I own both Oblivion and NeverWinterNight 2, and I feel GW's NF beat both of them by a large margin, here is my comparison between NF and NWN2, which came out about same time:

Graphic: NF>NWN2, not to mention NWN2 has higher requirement than NF.
User interface/friendliness: NF>NWN2
Character Customerization: NF>NWN2
Bug free:NF>NWN2
Henchman control: NF>NWN2
NPC AI: NF>NWN2
Storyline: Draw, both can use a little more twist in the plot.
Community Modules: NWN2
Online PVP: NF
Game Replayability: NF>>NWN2, why? Because of PVP, balanced and varied skill sets, and great dev teams who constantly improve their game. Community-made modules are nice but can be buggy, and after playing their stories once, no point to replay them again. But in GW professions are different enough, I never feel bored to play the story with my other toons.

It's easy to lose sight of how great GW is when it's the only game you play. After beating Oblivion, I never feel motivated to download mods to replay it again. But to replay GW? Anytime.

First off, Inscriptions/Insignias are not needed. Most of my Heros don't have a single armor inscription, my monks don't even have RUNES, and I henched 95% of the game (Only needed a PUG for Gate of Madness, as I didn't have the skills unlocked to own *insert annoying spoiler boss here*). New players are given tons of money through the starting quests, easily enough to get started. If anyone needs to eBay through this system, they're utter morons/lazy beyond belief.

Pros:

Well, without listing nearly everything, I'll point out my favorites.
New mobs are pretty cool looking.
Vastness of area.
Fewer locked gates, remove them all, and we are on our way to perfection... use natural "walls" like rivers and cliffs to block movement... keep illusion and immersion of the game world.
So much better than Faction "Hurry so you can PvP!" game play.

Cons: Untill the AI was dorked into stupidness on the 31st and all mobs became "Chicken Little" wannabes... I was extremely happy with Nightfall. I'm not talking about farming or mobs being hard to kill.. infact, just the opposite. Game is sick easy now and those 50 foot really awesome looking foes are nothing more than headless chickens who run away from a kick to the big toe.
Other than that, Nightfall is a great addition IMO. Could be a lot of fun once they fix the AI.

Last I checked WoW shouldnt be compared to GW, why should a regular old RPG be comparable?
Yeah, right . . .

Cons:

Grinding for sunspear points for every character to move on. This is boring/takes too long. Make it account based plz.

Pros:

1. slower. Lots of side quests that can leave you still on Issnur Island if you go after them all. Not likely to be completed in a short time span unless content is skipped.
2. African theme. Fantasy that is not Dungeons and Dragons inspired is always a big plus.
3. Heroes - manageable henchies.
4. Heroes #2 - means PUGs will have to get polite, making them more viable. No longer a need to put up with rude players.
5. Crocs - cause having a pet named Steve Erwin or Crikey is too much fun.
6. Beautiful. The scenery, the critters, the heroes, the new character looks, the new guild halls, are all more 'eye candy' than ever before.
7. Fun story. Getting to 'the plot' by just before the second mission is a plus. I feel pulled in. Less time 'randomly adventuring with no idea why'. Yes we get pulled in quick in Factions too, but this plot is just more enjoyable for me
8. it feels more dynamic. Factions was like playing the 'Aliens' movies with swords - one big bug hunt. This one is political.
9. New ways of customizing weapons and armor. I like building up my weapons and my armor a piece and a bonus at a time - and I like that when I find an armor with bonuses, inscriptions, and so on I have to prioritize my salvages on risk that it will get destroyed between salvage 1 and 2. I like that all armors are sold as 'blank slates' that I build up.
10. Sunspear points. Having every shrine offer a bounty that I can go out and hunt makes grinding feel goal oriented. Also means lower status players can feel the enjoyment of title earning. Don't have to finish or nearly finish the game before you can even think about titles.

Cons:

1. The new Runaway-I makes combat too easy. When all fights involve a route from the outset, every combat resembles 'mopping up operations'.
2. Heroes - detracts from viability of PUGs. Can avoid other players. Note how I feel Heroes both help and hurt PUGs at the same time.
3. New professions seem too 'warrior like' at times. I liked how in factions one was magical (ritualist) and the other warrior-ish (assassin). Paragon might be magical, but just doesn't feel that way to me yet.
4. Not being able to put inscriptions and other new-style bonuses on CH 1 and 2 weapons and armor.
5. Not finding any new Ritualist armor when I got to Consulate docks. Guess I have to finish the game to get access to the new armors for Ritualists and Assassins...?

You may feel that way, but at the checkout counter, when the money was on the line, I felt it perfectly valid to make that comparison. I know I am not alone in this.

GW may not be the exact same kind of MMORPG as WoW, but it is an online multiplayer game, and at purchase time, people do compare them and make a choice.

I did -NOT- buy WoW -because- I did get GW.

Pros---
Beautiful scenery. I'm not far in it--just off the island--and my first (failed) trip into the fortress, I was impressed by the detail and complexity of the fortress. The towers of the sunspear great hall are striking; the forestry of the Lahtenda bog is great.

Speed of levelling. I think this is a happy medium. I felt (personally, as I was new to ANY sort of RPG / fantasy game) that prophecies was a bit slow, and factions waaaaaay too fast.

Humor? I love some of the suggested dialogue on the "accept" buttons for quests. Some of the quests... kill a mime? come on, where else does that happen? The Black Moa story outside sunspear hall--too much.
****SPOILER FOLLOWS!!! ******
If you've got a black moa, take it over to them. hilarity ensues.

Quests: the side quests are interesting sometimes. The leap of faith quest, some of the others...

Salvage system and inscriptions...just added more to the economy

CONS:

primary quest chaining. I was not a fan of needing a primary quest for EVERY mission in factions, and I still am not a fan of it. I preferred Prophecies method: in low and mid-level areas, you were moved to next mission area at completion of mission. (I know...not true for desert and shiverpeaks). Factions was annoying in the length of primaries--NF has corrected this, but run you through chains of quests.

Hero inventories--some of this is my fault for forgetting sometimes...I got Koss to lvl 14 with starter sword!--but tossing drops and runes onto heroes is a bit much. It's easy to forget and mismanage them. It's a HUGE bonus, however, to have them and to be able to tweak their skillz.

Monster variety--so far, still seems to be lacking. I had really hoped to see a wider variety of critters sooner. Bugs, plants, skales, corsairs, mandragor, djinn, skree, and kournans so far. basically: bugs, people, and small dragons.
I think I had hoped for a more complete array of species a bit sooner.

meh. Overall, these are small complaints. I'm loving the dervish, and I'm sure I'm not really close to understanding its capabilities. The game is huge and glorious and pretty and interesting and original. I feel like I've discovered prophecies all over again.

This can be solved by using Hero monks instead. Open your heroes' skill bars and tell them to rez you.

I always put my monks on 'avoid combat' so that they stand in the back and cast heals (dunkoro) or protections (Talkara) and rez. And if they don't do it fast enough, I just do it for them.

It felt a lot less rushed than Factions, and was better quality than Prophecies.

Yes, it had some unfinished parts.

Ever thought to try PvP?

That's why they added controls. Set your heroes to passive and they won't do it.

Pros: Dye system
Dervish.

Cons(well not really):Making my dervish so addicting to play:P

I don't like pvp anymore because of afk'ers, rage quiters and the people that only think rank 6 or higher can do good.

I actually bought both games at around the same time (was going to put off NWN2 but I found it on sale). I played GWN for the opening weekend, tried out NWN2 for a couple of days, and immediately went back to GWN for exactly those reasons.

Especially the AI. Hero AI is still kinda crummy, but it's leaps and bounds better than NWN2 henchman AI.

Pros:
Story line. It's the best of the 3. I love the way that you become more of a central character in the goings-on.

Leveling: A very nice medium between the fast pace of factions and the slowness of Prophecies.

Area & theme: The "Wow!" factor is back in Nightfall, where it was sadly lacking in factions.

Cons:
Lack of Skills quests: Everything costs money and this puts a sever handicap on new players. I think the skills aquisition system in Prophecies was a good balance.

Command Post: I'm not a fan of this place not being an outpost. It just doesn't make sense to me that it isn't.

Depends if you start with a existing toon or a newly created one in Elona, which can take a while unless you decide to skip all the sides and stick with the primaries.

Some parts of the game are still incomplete, its a known issue awaiting a patch sometime soon.

Lastly Hero chasing AI works similiarly to the hencies so you got to be smart about where to manually position your team at times when you pull/lure.

My own Pros and Cons:

Pros:

Great addictive game with a great storyline and much game improvements.

Cons:

Some of the missions/areas are very unforgiving and require a higher level of play and understanding of game mechanics to succeed either with Heros or PuGs (maynot be a bad thing but generally newer players may get stuck and frustrated).

Again, insignias. Good in theory and concept but poor implementation.

Well everything is fairly good in Nightfall. The Insignia's aren't a problem with me, I keep getting them left and right and got enough for my ele to get her Sunspear 1.5k and it wasn't that expensive. As for money, IDing everything has kept me even and unless I spend 10k on keys, I'm staying pretty well for myself.

I have only two complaints, I had to start a brand new mule just to hold inscriptions, insignias, runes, and shield upgrades and I still need another mule because that one is full. I never had a problem before NF (well thats not true) I just did not complain just merch'd stuff. But now its bad real bad and a stupid key ring wont help much, we need at least twice the storage or I do. Complaint #2: I think that NF could have had a few more exotic pets to choose from. I like a few of them but there was nothing that really was special. Yea the croc is cool and the flamingo but nothing to want me to get my ranger their right off the bat like factions did. Maybe a pet hero system for a ranger to have more than 1 pet but can use only one at a time with a tiny skill bar for each.

Other than that little whine I love Nightfall, every bit of it. Great job Anet, I'll be first in line for the forth edition unless I let my wife have my spot in line.

Pros:
- To those of you claiming Prophecies was nonlinear... Yikes! The Nightfall storyline does a lot of U-turning (and figure-8-turning), but at the same time manages to keep your character in the spotlight rather than just having them carried along by events.
- In spite of all fears, the two new classes didn't ship nerfed into unusability (Paragons may need softening a bit, actually). Their gameplay also feels different enough to the other classes that I was moved to start one of each.
- The African flavour is really well done. Just enough references to cultures we don't see much of to strike a ballance between the familiar and lush exoticism.
- Did I use the word "lush" yet? Then let me re-use it for the art style. "Really well done" to the art director!
- The voice acting is much improved, and the writing is moderately improved. A couple fewer I AM EXPOSITING THE PLOT NOW moments, and it'll be perfect!
- The new skills are a very good mix in general. New play and build options plus others that just refine existing builds, all at a fairly appropriate power level with minimal creep.


Cons:
- RIP PuGs. Which is a pretty major con for those of us who don't live and breathe our guild.
- Inscriptions and insignias frankly just feel like goldsinks. Factions offered virtually the same functionality, only you didn't have to pay extra!
- I'm not a huge fan of all the PvE-only functionality (Lightbringing, Rebirth signets); but I guess we'll have to wait and see what that means in the long run.
- The twisting plot has one major downside - I have to stop and help someone figure out what they have to do next every five minutes!
- While I praised the skill selection, they're still struggling to get around the fact that the lack of Meteor Shower is still almost as damaging to Elementalists as the lack of Crushing Blow is to hammer warriors.
- Sundering mods dominate the endgame (weapon) greens. Moral: don't listen to your community, ANet! I wanted a 5/1 vamp 15>50 spear!

Wha? How on the earth is it possible to finish it in 24 hours and actually have fun? I started playing on release date and still havent finished the game

sounds like you got in with a not so good crowd. Any good player knows that rank is not a show of skill in this game, after all most of The Last Pride were only rank 3, and it didn't stop them from winning money in the tourneys.

afkers and rage quiters? try organized PvP, where you aren't just bunched with ppl you've never met.

ok, on topic

pro
wurms are cool
con
Junandu siege needs to be AoE

pro
heroes are cool
con
can't take 8 heroes
con
heroes should not be aloud in PvP (save Hero arena)

Pro
no rediculous copies of skills we already have like in factions
con
I want a bigger sword.

Pro
campaign was very enjoyable, moreso than factions
con
I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses I hate ele bosses

To bad vamp is only 3/1:

Nightfall got green Scythe what have 5 life stealing and -1 health regen. Also it was perfect Scythe and can only be obtained once you finish Nightfall's main storyline.

9-41 slashing damage.
Damage +15% (Health above 50%)
Life stealing 5
Health Regen -1
Health +30
damage +20% (when customised).

Can you say imba?

Heh, played most zelda games?

Pros:

Heroes.
New armour.
Better PvE.
More Skills.
Two new proffessions.
More weapon skins.
Wurms.
End to **one** trilogy.
Better VO
Lip Movement.
Better all round cutscenes.
Heroes, again.

Not to sure about insignias... theyre OK, i guess.

Cons:

Some dodgey AI
Heroes = Death of the PUG
Wasted Elites
Little repetitive.

Unsure why that's really a con.

I'm not familiar with the Nightfall end greens (yet).
I know Scythe has 5/1, but I was replying on the spear, which has only 3/1.
I own a couple of vamp bows, so I know that those are 5/1.

@ Sekkira:
I think I can say imba, but what does it mean?

Spears have an attack rate similar to Axes/Swords. Considering it's ranged and pretty much the same damage as a bow, the Paragon is already pretty much imbalanced. Give it a 5:1 vamp on the spear and it's even more so.

Pro:
Things already mentioned such as the heroes, new features, themes, etc

Con:
Gameplay is just like Factions. You can't go to Town X without doing a certain mission or quest first.

No skill reward quests.

Some monsters now run away from ANY skill effect that damages multiple targets.

Heroes seem to add a lot of potential for the Runners. Factions nearly killed them off, i wonder what Runners will do with 3 heroes to back them up?

the_jos: i believe you can actually delete your own posts. just hit edit

One thing I like is using heroes for HA, and putting new builds together for them. Now I get twice as much as fame than before because of the faster pace.

Actually, you can go to the town in a lot of cases, you just can't do the mission until you do the primary quest...

I have one con and on con only to say.

Chests.

Pay 600g in exchange for a 100g item in exchange for a title, and the fact it is harder to earn money now. Wow. Just wow. Now I don't have anything else to do in gw.

Pros:

• Lovely Scenery
• Great Graphics in General (armors, weapons, etc..)
• Dye preview window
• Insignias ~ good idea.
• Inscriptions ~ good idea.
• New classes are fun.
• Salvage choices are great.
• Decent quests & story.

Cons:

• Insignias ~ Poorly implemented. Should be fixed price 500g each. keeps armor costs same as in other chapters.
• Drop Rate sucks ~ non max weapons constantly in areas of L20+ monsters. Weapons with no default blank insignia slots dropping, Armors not dropping enough.
• Salvage Choices ~ pathetic coin toss chance of salvaging something making the new system terrible. Needing over 6 mil gold if you want a decent chance at salvaging from a favorite item without destroying it. Pathetic! Chance should have been 70% base and gone up to 85% with title maxed.
• Armor potentially being destroyed when wanting to swap in and out insignias making the system not userfriendly.
• Older armors / weapons NOT converted to new system. Making new system less appealing to others. I like my older chapter armor look and would like to change it's inscription now and then without having to go make a full suit yet again.
• Not enough storage for all the new stuff thats introduced, as usual.
• No auction house making selling items to other players a study in frustration and time wasting.
• Map transition between different continents not party friendly nor are they as easy as they could be.
• Pathing in some areas is terrible & /stuck doesn't seem to do much at all.
• Some bad graphic glitches in some areas with holes through the world and weird pieces of geometry that don't belong in other areas.

Not really a con but...

• Dye window would be even better if it had the ability to be brought up with no dyes and allowed you to mix dyes without owning them to see what you would need to buy in the future for a specific combination.

I haven't anything wrong with NF that I can't live with. Pros are all mentioned and the cons are there if you find them that way.