Pros and Cons of NightFall

Agreed. As another pro, all the mobs stick together nicely for my Dervish and it's great when you attack a priest and the soldiers come to defend him (Chilling Victory ftw )

Also,
Agreed again, except I think the plot is quite logical and easy to follow (you just have to think a bit.) I'm not finding Sunspear Ranks a grind yet but I'm yet to get to General so...

...So obviously that's why I wanted a 5/1 one - to be awesome!

Yeah, brainfart there. I got mixed up because Dervishes (whose scythes can go 5/1) do get the option of Vampiric or Sundering, whereas Paragons inexplicably don't. There's some bizzarre of Enchanting variant in that slot instead. Ah well, I guess it's just a matter of waiting until someone finds the spear equivalent of Chkkr's Pincers and hoping it's farmable.
Heh, I haven't had much trouble following it myself... But go to a major outpost and count how many times you see someone complaining that they've lost their primary quest and have no idea what to do next. It's horriffic!

Pros :
Storyline - Felt a lot more epic like prophecies was
Hero Skills NPC - Really liked this, sorta like quest skill rewards but you get to pick which skills you want (Didn't know you get the skill itself on your main char...didn't figure it out till I got to the end and saw Purge Signet on the list...the only skill I didnt buy even though I unlocked it so I was like...Oh no!)

And yeah...most people said all the good stuff already =P

Cons :
Lack of PuGs - I know some people will say this is a good thing...but a decent PuG will always beat heroes no matter what imo =P

Pro's:

-More interesting story with good voice acting.
-Beautifull scenery to explore with cool looking monsters to face.
-Hero's
-Mission design. I love the way missions are designed with specific goals on a map to follow. The addition of puzzles to solve are nice.
-Derv and Paragon are unique and well thought out characters.
-Difficulty progression is great. Very easy in the beginning to quite hard in the end.
-New salvage and dye options are great.
-Hero battles kinda fun, I wish it more straight forward fighting.



Con's:

-Still no skill quests..
-No replayability. Story is fine the first time through but the task of completing the game seems daunting and boring to complete on a second character.
-Insignia's. Basically your charging extra money for something we already had in previous chapters.
-Very poor armour design for most characters.
-Pets in nightfall are basically exact replica's of prophecies and factions pets with different colours.. like lioness sure looks alot like a melandru's stalker.. crane=flamingo
-Storyline..did all there efforts go into this? I sure don't play games for their great storyline. Seeing is how after the first time through you skip cinematics. Other parts of the game have suffered to make a great storyline which to me is of little importance.
-No snake pet?!
-Still no trading system, and no additional storage.
-No new pvp options. I'd like to see other 2 on 2 arena's, and free for all fights.
-Quest rewards give me no incentive to complete them.

could say this about any chapter - Prophecies, Factions or Nightfall

but I still had fun playing all classes

even with Nightfall, Ive been progressing all 10 classes in PVE

Pros:

- Excellent scenery and environmental design. Weather effects, upgraded graphics while still being able to run on a mid-range system.

- Lots of stuff to do. Lots of quests and content. Killing insects and such brought me back to my WoW days. Feels a lot more MMORPGish and less like a Diablo clone.

- Heroes are fun to customize and play around with.

- the AI still sucks, no big suprise there though. Heroes sort of compensate, but not much.

Cons:

- No auction house, and no grouping system shift the focus to playing by yourself rather than with the community. Still no easy way to sell things or get into groups without screaming in the chat channels.

- The voice acting, while better than Factions, suffers in spots. The dialogue is kinda blah too. They got rid of the male character voice for cutscenes as well and replaced it with a softer younger voice... double blah.

- overall lack of much needed interface issues. All the updates seem like frosting... the majority of the Guild Wars "cake" is still unchanged, problems and all.

This is a is a con.

No matter the length, there will always be those not sleeping until it is finished. Factions was like this, but normal players had a good month or more out of it. My friends and I only finished Factions (with one character) the week before Nightfall came out.

Remember, not everyone can play 24/7, or even every week. Guild Wars, not being designed to eat your life to be able to do anything*, is much, much better for those like that. *even though it, slowly, is slowly coming to that

I'd like to add a con: Paragon feels like it was made completely with PvP in mind. Unfortunately it feels very weird and not too useful in PvE no matter which skills I try to bring along.

Few more:

Pro

• Wurms are fun
• Some nice new skills

Con

• More stupid blocked areas. Don't try to force me to play your story if I don't want to. All these walls do is piss people off and stop explorers and elite capturing. Drop that idea or you'll lose sales for sure.
• Not enough gold rewards for quests to buy skills with. Also not as many skill points being awarded for quests as in Factions.
• No repeatable quests for turn in items like Trade Contracts and seeing as you need over 200 for 1 suit of armor this is a stupid design. Gem prices for trying to make a suit are outrageous at 5k+ per gem.

I like the heroes, they replace the anoying people and are more intellegent than henchmen

Eh, I thought the hero skills were put in as a replacement for skill rewards and you get to pick which skills you would prefer so...meh, maybe its just me =P

It's not an outpost as it's dynamic - some ppl may not have certain NPCs (like the extra rare trader, weapons guys, Heroes) if in a team...

Whats a PuG?

Anyway, my list (I havent completed the game yet, so it may be a little incomplete)

PRO:
- Nice mapdesign
- Well-thought new characters
- Nice-looking armour
- Heroes (finally you can play the game without having to rely on other human players)
- Sunspear promotion points

CON:
- No skillquests, all you get is a handfull of crappy skills at start and you have to buy the rest from skilltrainer

Con:

Mob toughness is pitiful
Drops suck

Nice thread, with lots of good posts. I'll throw in my 2 cents:

PROs:

• As usual very nice artwork overall, for environment, monsters, NPCs and items. The look and theme of Elona is even more breathtaking than Tyria and Cantha. Two thumbs up for the ArenaNet art team!
• Rich storyline with background story, nice main story and sidequests. Not too linear, but also not too twisted. You can rush through the game, or you can take it slow, as you prefer. There is something for everybody.
• Heroes give you a lot of flexibility, and they are especially great if you want to go to ghost-town places in Tyria and Cantha where henchies don't cut it and decent PUPs are not available in sufficient number.
• The hero/henchmen control system with flags on the radar minimap and the three combat modes is a BIG improvement. Still not perfect, but a good start.
• Armor insignias, weapon inscriptions and better salvage options: It's nice to have a more flexible, modular weapon and armor system. I've always wanted to build my equipment of choice, totally free. In old campaigns choices were too limited.
• New skills are well balanced and add variety.
• New professions are well done.
• Dye preview. Very nice.
• The titles (Sunspear/Lightbringer) are actually meaningful, not just "gimmicks".
• Some nice new refreshing gameplay ideas like traps, riddles, riding wurms, etc. More variety, more fun.

CONs:

• Still no improvement to trade system. HOW MUCH LONGER DO WE HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THE WTS SPAM CRAP?? Either give us an auction house already, or finally get your act together and enforce the Rules of Conduct and ban the spammers!
• Still no improvement to party formation system. Especially since heroes killed all PUGs (see next section), this is now more needed than ever!
• Heroes killed PUGs. They encourage solo play, because you have to level and equip them. It is close to impossible to find a decent PUG for ANYTHING in Elona these days. If I want to play solo I don't need to play an MMO game, I might as well play a singleplayer offline game. ANet most urgently needs to improve the PUG party formation process now! And it would help if the heroes' level would automatically determined either by their master's level, or by the location (similar to henchmen). That way you wouldn't be forced to party with your heroes in order to level them.
• Heroes are TOO customizable. It has gotten too complicated. Customizable skills and attributes are fine, but it shouldn't be required to upgrade their weapon (it should simply upgrade automatically, like their armor), and it shouldn't be possible to put insignia or runes on the armor. Yes, you're right, I don't have to do that, but since it is possible I feel an irresistable urge to make use of that possibility. And with 15 heroes for 10 characters that means managing 150 heroes, which takes far too much time and resources. I think the hero system should be simplified. It's okay that heroes are unlocked per character, but once unlocked they should be account-based. All heroes of an account should share a common pool of weapons and armor equipment. For quick swapping the armor and weapon config should be part of the save/load-able templates.
• The armor/weapon customization system has become too complicated too. It's confusing for newbs and even long-time players. Especially since we have three different, incompatible systems in three campaigns now. When ANet introduced the new system they should have converted the previous campaigns to the new system. It can't be that complicated, really!
• Mandatory grinding for Sunspear/Lightbringer points in order to proceed with the storyline sucks. Having to grind was bad with Befriending the Luxons/Kurzicks in Factions, and it's just as bad in Nightfall.
• Quests rewards could use some more creativity. Give out special items or skills that are not available in any other way. Now that would be a real incentive to play quests! Currently the only compelling incentive to play quests is that they are required to pass certain gates to enter new areas. That's poor quest design.
• Still no improvement to storage, forcing users to maintain mule characters. I can buy plenty of storage space for 9 Euro per 45 inventory slots (mule characer) in the ingame store. Why can't I buy slots for my Xunlai storage?? What's the big difference?? Why does ANet think that swapping characters all the time is better than having one big storage??
• No ritualist hero. Who the f*** needs an assassin???

/ditto with Tetris

My biggest con has to be the hero system. Basically, once one charater has gone through the leveling process, your next level 20 you bring over should'nt have to IMO. Getting a level 2 koss is completely useless to a level 20 canthian or tyrian character. I honestly think that they NEED to change that so that when you get your heros they are AT LEAST level 15. Keep it so you have to level the heros with your new character, but bringing a character over shouldn't be that way.

What do u mean these days, u never could find decent PUGs aside from the supremly rare ones which were like finding a small gold seam in a large mountain range

Actually if u do the quests there is practically no grinding in Nf unless u want greens. The whole point of quests is to get you to explore, earn money, kill and do random things to help npcs out. This is to slow u up on purpose to add more volume to the game so ur less likly to complete it in a day, ofc u still can do it in a day if u really wanted but thats up to u. Ive only got to the Desolation so far and i havnt done all the quests up till there but ive earned more money already then i ever did in F or P and im already max sunspear rank(well the current max anyways) Not to mention these grinds u speak of are part of the story eg befriending the luxons/kursicks


this one i do have to agree with u about, its the only Big CON remaining as far as im concerned. Anet has attempted a little fix with the material storage although that isnt enough we need more room for other things and the 250 max of the material storage is highly annoying considering most armour requires far more than that for just 1 char with 1 set of armour so u end up having to store materials on mule chars anyways

Pretty much agreed with tetris; apart from maybe two cons.

Making money is gotten tough, no farming anymore doesn't only mean higher Ebay prices, it was also something I'd do to get 10k every month or so to buy a new piece of armour or whatever. (this also means the 'elitist' FoW armour is just either from old characters; or the biggest [email protected] drop farm* grinders around)

Still the damn money costs on skills; should just be changed to swapping skillpoint for skill.

Pros:

-Great graphics
-New Classes
-Heroes
-Titles that finally do something
-PvE only enchancement items, I love skale fin soup.
-Insignias, much better system than the factions/prophecies one, hopefully they change the old armors to use the new system too
-Truly harder endgame missions
-vabbi armor
-PvE only skills
-Skill + equipment templates

Cons:

-Lack of endgame contents
-AI problems
-Lack of FoW armor level weapons
-No auctions house/party formation
-Heroes, which encourages solo play instead of multiplayer

I'll add my support to what Tetris has said, and add to it one more thing: It's again even more expensive than ever to play the game.

I hope they stay minor, limited use, rare items. I don't want the PvE to become a potionfest and "LFG. Have drake kabobs!"

Another Pro and Con

Pro (I'm running out of these :/)
Hero skill trainer is nice.

Con

• Titles with ridiculous requirements to meet that have too much of a bearing on PvE (10,000 high end chests = 6 mil gold for the lowest cost high end key, etc...)
• (and the biggie right here)Unfinished Game Releases I stopped buying Sony's crap games when they continued to release expansion after expansion that were not finished being designed. Sony used to release expansions with the end game content, among other things, not finished and then expected people to just sit back while they finally patched the content/fixes in to the game, while saying that the game was actually finished.
  
  I don't pay for crap releases and unfinished dreck and I won't do that here either. If Anet can't finish an expansion before they release it and think they can just patch stuff in later then they won't get any more money from myself or many others I know who play GW. Lack of elite missions before release, all the "Major" changes that they say are coming should have been in the initial release not added on later.

On another note I don't mind leveling up heroes but I do mind having to equip every single one of them. I'd much rather see heroes be account based, even if you didn't have access to the hero on a character till it was unlocked, then once unlocked you had access to that hero that your earlier character unlocked, equipped and leveled.

Example:

Billy Blastalot unlocks L33T Hero 1. Levels the hero to 20 and gives said hero some spiffy items. Billy then logs on his mid level ranger Sally Shootsalot and does the same quest to unlock L33T Hero 1. When Sally finally unlocks said hero that hero has all the equipment and levels that were gained while the player was playing Billy.