Problem: Solution?

Originally Posted by lacasner

Yes, but in real life is there an ultimate supreme dictator (anet in this game) who can decide to do anything they want at any time? (god doesn't count :P)

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Um. 1984 has no relevance to this topic whatsoever.

You are probably thinking of Marxism or Communism, which is completely different than 1984. And it's a stretch enough comparing either of those to 1984.

Originally Posted by lyra_song

What does Anet have anything to do with how the community tries to improve itself?

Really Anet has no control over how much its players want to be scammers, assholes, or exploiters.

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

I love playing with pugs and I often try to help some of the new players in my guild. But, I think being the "helpful" type of player pretty much has to be part of your personality. I can't imagine half of the posters here ever being nice or helpful in the game, unless it's toward their own profit.

Great post FexFx, you're trying to be part of the solution rather than being part of the problem. I wish more people had your point of view about gameplay and how to treat other players.

Originally Posted by FexFX

Your post while observant and salient in its relevance, does not state how you feel about the subject...Is such an endeavor worth it? Would you choose to help n00bs and expose scammers in an effort to improve the commuinty as a whole? Will you PUG for change?

Originally Posted by Oh a GW forum

Experience and skill comes from frustration, hardship, and most of all mistake upon mistake. If flower power towers like yourself run around offering to hold everyones hand, all people would learn is that they really don't have to learn a damn thing, because people like you will do everything for them. If you see a "noob" who needs help do what I do:

Give a briefe answer to what he's asking but be specific enough so he can figure it out. If he pesters you and needs you to break it down word by word, tell him to figure it out and stop bugging you.

You can't just teach people how to play the game, they have to first find out what doesn't work, and eventually they learn what does. It will never work the other way around.

And drop the "yay let's all sing a song" stuff please... its beyond pathetic.

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

True enough. Here's my take on it: I play the game as I go through life. I treat those I encounter with respect, I give assistance when asked(within reason) and advice where desired. If I find myself knowledgeable of a possible scam, I inform others(such as making sure people selling black dye know its worth). I don't tend to go out of my way, as I do tend to hench my way around.
I enjoy pugs, but I hench because I hold myself to a certain standard around other people. If I don't know enough about a mission I'll learn what I can from wiki and running through with henchies before attempting to take a character through(for instance my non-ascended ranger through the desert) with other people.
I frankly hope pugs stay alive, for several reasons:
1)I enjoy them
2)they are a great teaching aid, as I can learn to play a class more creatively by watching another player, not a henchie.
3)when I no longer feel like I want to play alone, I love socializing with other players, even if its just a bad joke while my char is lying dead on the floor.

But the deciding factor will not come from someone slightly moderate, such as I. The deciding factor in pug survival and the assistance of new players will come from decisions from those who truly solo and hench/hero their way through the game, to the exclusion of pugs altogether. People other than casual players like myself. If these people can build a long term guild to assist new players,etc. I wholly support them. If more people would simply take time out occasionally to lend a helping hand, to relive the moments they had when they were new, maybe the disposition of the community would be a bit rosier, a little more light hearted.

We'll simply have to see.
But that's just my two cents

Originally Posted by FexFX

First allow me to begin by stating that I am not an elite veteran who say they have every title in the game, all the green weapons, FoW armor, and 250 Black dyes in storage on a Mule...But I am no n00b.

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Have you ever met this kind of people in the game? A kind of people who claim that they have 10 characters, all complete 3 games for so many times. Yet he never really learned anything about the game whatsoever.

You know this because he tells you such claim after he's leading your entire team to a dead end in a mission.

I have nothing against helping new players, really. But I'd rather have them learning about the game instead.

Originally Posted by FexFX

Ah! Finally a voice of assent!
Mostly...

So maybe not starting from Ascalon, but a bit further in? I remember fondly joining with groups for Althea's ashes, and learning many of the things I was doing wrong from more experienced players! Making friends and feeling like there was indeed a community I was a part of...Doesn't it make sense to actively seek to preserve that? Isn't it always better to be helpful than to despair? Learning alone only gets you so far...a mentor's value cannot be underestimated!

So will you make it a personal goal to help a n00b and improve Ascalon?

Is there anyone else out there that feels the way I do? Are the voices of reason and hope so quiet that they cannot be heard above the din of despair?

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

I like your way of thinking FexFX; I thought the same way... about 5 months ago. After awhile this community (in game and in this forum sometimes) has really just burnt me out and to a point, I could honestly care little for the betterment of it, however I still care for the state of the game, as I enjoy playing it... when it works.
Over the last 5 months, well, longer actually, but it was about 5 months ago when I gave up. I would be in the forums, adding to "ideals" and suggestions for making the game more fun. I was a big "begger" for more character slots, and for example, was constantly slammed for something that was not needed, but a useful addition for anyone who wanted one. I was always big on possible ideas for in game additions and new "toys" to play in and with. However, no matter the idea, some arrogant little fanboy would always say "nothing wrong with the system, stop complaining"... however, there was never a complaint made... many of these ideas were in Sanitarium and were getting some support. I gave them up and let them die as I was getting sick of the fanboism.
In game, it got even worse. I used to PuG all the time. Loved it. As a former long time player of EQ, I was used to needing groups of people to play with. GW was new in that henchies could fill in the blanks. I PuGged my way through most of the first chapter, found a guild, then grouped with them AND PuGs as a mix.
Shortly after Factions came out (not blaming Factions for you Fanboys; refering to as a time line), I continued with PuGs up untill the point where one of the following happened at least 5 or more times a day:

1) AFKers would sit through the missions - had one afker have the nerve to scream and curse the whole group for not going on without him (we sat waiting for 35 minutes).
2) The Cap'n'Map players. These people who need a cap and rather than simply say "Can we go get this cap" (which I would have loved to help them get); would aggro the boss mob, pull it on the group, grab the cap then map out.
3) The Mapper - rather than take henchies or set up a "mapping group" these people will simply run off from the group to unlock portions of the map; sometimes returning with a nice train behind them then map out.
4) The "I know all" complex - Instead of giving reason certain skills would be useful against certain mobs, these fools join a group and instantly begin demanding who takes what to compliment their "perfect" build... as if there were such a thing in PvE. One such instance had me PuGging with a new player. We were about to take on Glint. He was, like I said, new and had not picked up Winter. The group leader without a word kicked him out. I was, at the time the only monk in the zone, and so in retort, without word, dropped from the group and re-joined with the new guy. I explained about Winter and Glint's "toys" and he joyfully went and picked it up.

After many months of this, I gave up. Haven't PuGged since and I admit, I miss it. But I do not miss the above behavior which I ended up with 100% (yea, 100%) of the time.

A final thought and close; look at how you yourself opened this thread:



You have to set up the thread cause you know someone is bound to jump in here and try and start a flame war to derail the topic or at best, flame you for being someone without a clue.

In answer; no, I can't help you change the betterment of the game. I've tried. Trying right now to get the AI fixed so it's not a game of tag - for that I'm flamed daily by fanboys. Gaile has stated that some of the unusal AI is not widespread, yet because someone doesn't see the "bug"; it's my fault or simply because I'm not using a FoTM build... yet, still... for trying to get something improved for all, I'm a whiner and complainer... sorry...

Good luck with your ideas though.

Originally Posted by xxSilhouette

Well thats kind of what im trying to say - I mean it really depends on the person, I personally learn a lot from teaching myself, but i sometimes can learn from others - where as some people learn more from others, and less from selves.

I have occasionally when i have been bored or had nothing else to do went back to ascalon and offered help before to others, and there were times when i was VERY annoyed.

For example. I helped one person out with a few quests. I was with my warrior, and they asked if i could run, I said yes, and they asked if i would give them a free run to courthouse. Well thats not a long or hard run at all - so i said sure. Once we got there, they asked for a run to yaks. and so on and so forth, and after we got to Lions Arch, They left - and i realized I hadn't been thanked once. Where as other times, I have helped people, and they have greatly appreciated it - even offering me a dye that dropped for them, or whatever. And I like to help others when I feel its needed or appreciated. But again, after running that person to LA - i realized two things 1.They didn't NEED to get to LA and 2.They did'nt appreciate my help at all.

So, ending this long post - I would love to go back and help people when I am out of things to do, or feel like it. I just want it to be appreciated. And more times then not, people don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Oh a GW forum

You want to know why pugs are so deplorable now? It's because everyone these days was just lead through the game by someone who already knew how to do everything.

I was teaming with a ranger the at THK last week (yea, I was planning on doing it solo with henches and heros, but I thought I would be "nice" since he said he was a trapper and I assumed he knew what he was doing) and he told me he'd beaten this before on another character. Well as we got to end, he had absolutely no idea WTF to do because last time he just did what he was told like a brainless little tool and followed everyone else. So I had to explain in great detail what his purpose for being there was. I swear to god I almost exploded on him, but we did beat the mission flawlessly and he'll probably go on never understanding HOW we won, because me and my heros did all the work.

So because I helped some "noob" beat THK you think that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside? Hell no, that pisses me off to no end because now he'll go on to make the ROF missions hell for someone else.

However, if that ranger had to fail that mission 15 times, once he finally beats it maybe he'd learn a thing or two.

The more you help people the less they learn. At best, the most anyone needs is a little direction. You, however, would rather build a set of tracks.