When the NF Elite Mission is implemented, there's a 99.9% chance that it will be in the Realm of Torment (proof: You can buy "Stygan Keys" for 5 Inscribed Secrets in the Gates of Torment, the same way keys are obtained for the other 2 Elite Missions).
Therefore, it'll likely contain Abaddon's minions, of course.
And therefore, PuG will want the maximum efficiency. This means the Lightbringer title, of course, since it can add a significant amount of damage and damage reduction. And, of course, super Lightbringer's Gaze.
If the NF Elite mission follows the same pattern as the previous Elite Missions, there won't be henchmen, so even with Heroes, you'll need to group. (Atleast 3 Human people will need to be present. But that won't happen. We'll have full groups of 12 for Lightbringer's Gaze spikes.)
I gurantee we'll see "LFM LB R4++! NO NOOBS" in the Elite Mission outpost. (since R4 is inane, like elitist PuGs, but actually reasonable to obtain)
Anyone care to add?
NF Elite Mission
Zinger314
crimsonfilms
Uhm unlike other titles Lighbringer actually has a purpose in PvE.
So bottom line is, find another group to do it.
This 'omg elitist zuxksor' is kind of lame. Stop forcing people how to play the game they paid for. Be more proactive about life in general and stop depending on others about your happines.
So bottom line is, find another group to do it.
This 'omg elitist zuxksor' is kind of lame. Stop forcing people how to play the game they paid for. Be more proactive about life in general and stop depending on others about your happines.
Kijik Oni Hanryuu
I have to agree with both Crimson and Zinger on this, Yes there will be a large amount of discrimination, as there is everywhere and that is gonna suck, but I also agree that the best thing to do is find a way around it, which is the reason for guilds.
YunSooJin
I dont see anything wrong at discrimination in this game. If you think it'll help you succeed, then you do it. Applied incorrectly though, its only a detriment to yourself.
Malice Black
This is pure speculation and will only rile the masses.
Lyphen
Hey, if it's open, I'd rather grind Lightbringer rep than have to wait for a ferry.
Chicken Ftw
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Originally Posted by YunSooJin
I dont see anything wrong at discrimination in this game. If you think it'll help you succeed, then you do it. Applied incorrectly though, its only a detriment to yourself.
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Thallandor
I agree with Zinger on the post, it will happen as described. Ever since the implementation of skill bar calling, its has never been more easier to discriminate players (not saying if its good or bad, pros and cons) so i wont be surprised if lightbringer titles will be used as a basis on choice of players for Elite mission PuGs.
One other thing, if hencies are not allowed in Elite missions, its likely then so wont be Heros as well.
Personally i feel perhaps the best way to solve this would be to have the lightbringer title (1) as the prerequisite to access Elite mission, as this will ensure that a player has at least made significant progress into the game, if not completed it already. Others may be more extreme to suggest that Elite missions should only be open to those who have completed NF.
But having said that, then again there will always be idiots who would then dsicriminate others by their lightbringer title (1),(2),(3) and failing that then use pvp rank as an indication of PvE competence. ~_~
My advice: Just aviod goons and play with your friends/guild.
One other thing, if hencies are not allowed in Elite missions, its likely then so wont be Heros as well.
Personally i feel perhaps the best way to solve this would be to have the lightbringer title (1) as the prerequisite to access Elite mission, as this will ensure that a player has at least made significant progress into the game, if not completed it already. Others may be more extreme to suggest that Elite missions should only be open to those who have completed NF.
But having said that, then again there will always be idiots who would then dsicriminate others by their lightbringer title (1),(2),(3) and failing that then use pvp rank as an indication of PvE competence. ~_~
My advice: Just aviod goons and play with your friends/guild.
Count to Potato
<-- Mighty Lightbringer, what do i care, its fun using Gaze, anyway if u go and do all master quests you'll get it no worries
-.-
The Elite mission better give 10 points per kill, or I'm going to quit grinding for the max.
Divinus Stella
Well, elite mission pugs usually die or get ragequits and errors anyway, id never dream of joining a pug for an elite mission, guild teams are much better, doesnt matter what rank in lightbringer a wammo has, he will still get killed when he rambos the first chest he sets his eyes on.
bamm bamm bamm
You don't have to 'guarantee' it, I already see it in every mission and outpost in Torment. But then if it offers a tangeable benefit and is available to every profession, is it as bad? I agree with your assumption that the standard will be set at around R4. Every title has a point where it moves from background 'as-you-play' progression to focused grinding. For lightbringer I feel that point is late-R3/R4. I suppose it ultimately depends on how effective gaze spiking is in the context of the elite mission. If it is effective (and it probably will be), the concept will become a fad and there will be a title 'standard'.
Phoenix Ex
Its not like its a bad thing....LB point are extremely easy to get from normal play.
The only thing ANet should make sure of is that the mission is 99.9% impossible to do with Heroes/Hench.
The only thing ANet should make sure of is that the mission is 99.9% impossible to do with Heroes/Hench.
M1h4iL
Good observation, I am sure there will be plenty of LF: r3++ LB
lg5000
What's the max rank for lightbringer atm?
Kcp
If the masses really wanted to be elite they shouldn't even use their lightbringer title in the mission, or any of those lightbringer skills.
It's not like you can't kill any of abaddons servants without a lightbringer title. I really don't see it being a problem except for the O.C.D. people.
It's not like you can't kill any of abaddons servants without a lightbringer title. I really don't see it being a problem except for the O.C.D. people.
YunSooJin
R8 - 50,000 LB points is the max.
Hump Masta
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Originally Posted by Divinus Stella
Well, elite mission pugs usually die or get ragequits and errors anyway, id never dream of joining a pug for an elite mission, guild teams are much better, doesnt matter what rank in lightbringer a wammo has, he will still get killed when he rambos the first chest he sets his eyes on.
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kang
Im lightbringer R2 with 550 points and I havent farmed once, I just got them from bounties on the way to quests and quest rewards.
It may also not seem like much, but the lightbringer title IS effective, the extra damage is noticable and the reduction is handy, also lightbringers gaze is a great skill, mass interrupt and sweet damage.
In my opionin, ill be late r3/r4 by the time the elite mission is released (unless for once they release something early) and ill definatley want r3 at least, because lightbringer skills DO help, and they are very useful.
and the same thing happens with PvP anyway, HA rank discrimination is just like that, and people have managed fine, if they arent high ranked, they go with low rank teams (or heroway now.....), and with the elite mission, if they arent high enough ranked, they either go with a lower team or go out and do some master quests.
It may also not seem like much, but the lightbringer title IS effective, the extra damage is noticable and the reduction is handy, also lightbringers gaze is a great skill, mass interrupt and sweet damage.
In my opionin, ill be late r3/r4 by the time the elite mission is released (unless for once they release something early) and ill definatley want r3 at least, because lightbringer skills DO help, and they are very useful.
and the same thing happens with PvP anyway, HA rank discrimination is just like that, and people have managed fine, if they arent high ranked, they go with low rank teams (or heroway now.....), and with the elite mission, if they arent high enough ranked, they either go with a lower team or go out and do some master quests.
Ole Man Bourbon
R6 IWAY LB farm SI
BoredJoe
I personally don't think so. Normally it's the strategy and team build that wins through in the mission, rather than extra % points in damage. I'm sure that many players who go through Urgoz or the Tombs or the Deep don't have the optimal setup eg. vampiric weapons, 16 in the particular attribute *ahem*, but everything still works.
A PUG with all maxed out lightbringer titles is more likely to fail than an organised guild group who are all on rank 1, IMHO.
A PUG with all maxed out lightbringer titles is more likely to fail than an organised guild group who are all on rank 1, IMHO.
Curse You
I got Rank 3 Lightbringer on my main character just recently (the Elite signet is totally useless for anything but a Paragon), so I guess I won't be feeling the descrimination... if there is any.
The Winds Silence
<-- Conquering Commander (6). yea thats LB points, everyone friggin asks, and i do agree that there will be discrimination if the new elite mission involves gaze. but what do i care, gaze is amazing for the energy cost, people need to realize.. at rank 6. u can hit a group or margos for over 600 dmg.. hmm sounds good to me 
Curse You
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Originally Posted by The Winds Silence
<-- Conquering Commander (6). yea thats LB points, everyone friggin asks, and i do agree that there will be discrimination if the new elite mission involves gaze. but what do i care, gaze is amazing for the energy cost, people need to realize.. at rank 6. u can hit a group or margos for over 600 dmg.. hmm sounds good to me
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http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Lightbringer%27s_Gaze
TechnoSword
I think he means a group because for every rank you hit another adjacent person and with rank 6 you can hit 6 adjacent targets from the person you casted the skill on.
Karlos
It would be kind of hard to max out Lightbringer for all your chars that you plan on using in the Elite mission, so I see the grind there. However, I am fairly certain ANet will not make it so that the grind is mandatory.
I don't see it as discrimination though. Farming Lightbringer points is not exactly rocket science, and once it becomes "important" you can bet there will be "LB farming Builds" and "LB point services even." There are a few places in Vabbi where farming Lightbringer points is extremely trivial. I used to do it with 4 party members only there.
I don't see it as discrimination though. Farming Lightbringer points is not exactly rocket science, and once it becomes "important" you can bet there will be "LB farming Builds" and "LB point services even." There are a few places in Vabbi where farming Lightbringer points is extremely trivial. I used to do it with 4 party members only there.
necrozsi
Actually that may be true, but it will most likely apply to only warrior/assassin/dervish/paragons/mesmers etc.
Monks/ele/nec on the other hand are so high in demand for all missions/pve that any group would want them regardless of their lightbringer rank.
Monks/ele/nec on the other hand are so high in demand for all missions/pve that any group would want them regardless of their lightbringer rank.
upier
i was ready for a rant on titles discrimination since i still bloody hate the general title (the only title that i even experienced since i cant be bothered to get it - let me advance not freaking force me to stay in a bloody ugly area)
then i breathe in and out and remembred - elite missions update? will i even be playing by then? since eversince ive installed nightfall ive been playing less and less and when i play its in factions of prophecies.
so no need to get worked up
then i breathe in and out and remembred - elite missions update? will i even be playing by then? since eversince ive installed nightfall ive been playing less and less and when i play its in factions of prophecies.
so no need to get worked up
thezed
In an elite mission there SHOULD be discrimination. I dont want to start that kind of test of skill with someone who is not able to survive it.
Furthermore, on the issue of "grinding" for Lightbringer points, these elite missions typicly take 3-5 hours to complete. If you are unable/unwilling to spend the time to get a good LB rank then you will probably be unable/unwilling to spend the time to finish the mission.
I encurage LB rank discrimination in the elite mission!
Furthermore, on the issue of "grinding" for Lightbringer points, these elite missions typicly take 3-5 hours to complete. If you are unable/unwilling to spend the time to get a good LB rank then you will probably be unable/unwilling to spend the time to finish the mission.
I encurage LB rank discrimination in the elite mission!
Rera
The problem with Lightbringer rank discrimination in particular is that LB rank is worthless as an indicator of either experience or skill. Farming LB takes absolutely no skill or thought, so the person with r8 could be a complete idiot, but he'd get more groups than the veteran player with r3 because he refused to grind the title.
Regardless, rank discrimination will happen anyway, because people are too stupid to stop and think about what a title actually indicates.
Regardless, rank discrimination will happen anyway, because people are too stupid to stop and think about what a title actually indicates.
Cebe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rera
The problem with Lightbringer rank discrimination in particular is that LB rank is worthless as an indicator of either experience or skill. Farming LB takes absolutely no skill or thought, so the person with r8 could be a complete idiot, but he'd get more groups than the veteran player with r3 because he refused to grind the title.
Regardless, rank discrimination will happen anyway, because people are too stupid to stop and think about what a title actually indicates. |
crimsonfilms
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rera
The problem with Lightbringer rank discrimination in particular is that LB rank is worthless as an indicator of either experience or skill. Farming LB takes absolutely no skill or thought, so the person with r8 could be a complete idiot, but he'd get more groups than the veteran player with r3 because he refused to grind the title.
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And this GW PvE - it does not take a brain surgeon to execute any of the mission.
It is precisely because true skill is hard to guage people will WANT LB ranks. Why? Because it is an inherent advantage in regards to the game mechanics.
It is not discrimination. People are using this word quite liberally for no good reason.
It is not a big deal - in fact - people should look for players with LB rank if the enemies will consist of such types.
Amity and Truth
Well, if there are enemies which are vulnerable to the Lightbringer Abilities then yes... Rank Discrimination will come and for once it will actually mean something unlike the ever stupid "i've got rankz0r 9 from pvp, i r teh god" behavior.
It doesn't equal skill. It shows dedication to a point, which is a good thing. As someone allready has mentioned, elitemissions take time and countless are the times i had to abort an elitemission simply because the people did not have enough dedication to complete it even though they stated otherwise. It's simply a problem with peoples attention span.
A high LB Rank means he went the way. He invested time to get it.
But even if we put that aside and take out every skill or time part as well. There is still one reason why i'll be taking high ranked LBs over no ranked LBs.
Efficiency.
They do more damage, they take less damage plus they have Lightbringers Gaze.
It doesn't equal skill. It shows dedication to a point, which is a good thing. As someone allready has mentioned, elitemissions take time and countless are the times i had to abort an elitemission simply because the people did not have enough dedication to complete it even though they stated otherwise. It's simply a problem with peoples attention span.
A high LB Rank means he went the way. He invested time to get it.
But even if we put that aside and take out every skill or time part as well. There is still one reason why i'll be taking high ranked LBs over no ranked LBs.
Efficiency.
They do more damage, they take less damage plus they have Lightbringers Gaze.
Clone
I've seen PvE rank discrimination already in Nightfall. Seeing it in the elite missions will be inevitable. Time to accept it, Guild Wars is about grinding.
gabrial heart
I think, just ever so possibly it won't be abaddons minions and may not even be in the realm. There is a very good possiblity that the elite mission is in chantry and could be an entirely different strategy. Personally i think the LB gaze is way overpowered and if the elite mission was 12 people with lb gaze (even all at R2) against abaddons minions it would hardly be a mission worth calling elite. Thats 1200 points in damage to a single target in many cases and even the worst timed spike group could mow through very large groups, not to mention what 12 R8's would do to a mission like that. So either gaze wont be viable or it won't be abaddon.
Bane of Worlds
There are grinding in every game in one form or another, there are people who think they're elite in every online and offline games, and people are picky when it comes to the success of whatever they want to achieve like rolling thru areas with ease and maximum time efficiency like in gw missions or great farming areas.
---Follower of Grenth
---Follower of Grenth
Priest Of Sin
-sigh- time to farm LB points.
Badger2
Come on people, everyone of us discriminated when we chose the way our character looks. Why? Because we preferred "this" look over that one. Over simplified example? Yes, but discrimination none the less.
If someone is forming an 8 man team of asassins why would they want a warrior? As stupid as this idea is it is still a preference as to how the team is put together.
If any of us are prevented from refusing anyone that has no LB rank at all does that also mean we must accept a lvl 1 nec trying to convience us they are a mm.
If you are the one being "discriminated" against, get over it. Find another team or better yet start your own and build it the way you want it and then you can be the one doing the discriminating.
If someone is forming an 8 man team of asassins why would they want a warrior? As stupid as this idea is it is still a preference as to how the team is put together.
If any of us are prevented from refusing anyone that has no LB rank at all does that also mean we must accept a lvl 1 nec trying to convience us they are a mm.
If you are the one being "discriminated" against, get over it. Find another team or better yet start your own and build it the way you want it and then you can be the one doing the discriminating.
Sectus
If NF's elite mission is anything like Faction's elite missions you can bet that puggies are gonna demand a high LB rank.
I personally don't care much about the discrimination since I avoid PUGs like the plague, but I dislike the imbalance this will have.
A full team of human players will have a tremendous advantage due to them all carrying Lightbringer. (a team of r9 lb's will be godlike) But a team with 3 players and 9 heroes will be at an extreme disadvantage because they lack LBs.
I don't understand why anet just doesn't remove the LB nonsense altogether and let us play missions with their intended difficulty.
I also got a feeling this will also just encourage people to start mindlessly farm the mission. "Gimmicky build looking for R9 LB pugs to easily clear mission in 10 minutes!"
I personally don't care much about the discrimination since I avoid PUGs like the plague, but I dislike the imbalance this will have.
A full team of human players will have a tremendous advantage due to them all carrying Lightbringer. (a team of r9 lb's will be godlike) But a team with 3 players and 9 heroes will be at an extreme disadvantage because they lack LBs.
I don't understand why anet just doesn't remove the LB nonsense altogether and let us play missions with their intended difficulty.
I also got a feeling this will also just encourage people to start mindlessly farm the mission. "Gimmicky build looking for R9 LB pugs to easily clear mission in 10 minutes!"
beanerman_99
Bah! Just let me take my Heroes and a few Henchies and I will be happy. For some reason the longer I play guild wars, the more I play it alone. No hassles with waiting to get a team together, no waiting to set skills, no AFKer's or rage quitters and so on and so on.
Plus, If I can try it a few times with my AI group, I can learn for MYSELF what goes on in the mission, what the monsters are like, what strategies work best, AND I can explore and enjoy the new area at my own leasure. Then when I join a Pug I would be more familiar with the mission and less of a hinderance to the group.
I hated the Factions elite mission. The first time I tried it I was commanded to do certain things by the group leader and told "do this, go there, use this" blah blah blah. Thats fine, I understood why he was telling us what to do so that we all survived and made it deeper. But as said before, I felt rushed and not really in control of my own actions, and didn't really get time to look aroung and enjoy it.
Just my 2cents.
Plus, If I can try it a few times with my AI group, I can learn for MYSELF what goes on in the mission, what the monsters are like, what strategies work best, AND I can explore and enjoy the new area at my own leasure. Then when I join a Pug I would be more familiar with the mission and less of a hinderance to the group.
I hated the Factions elite mission. The first time I tried it I was commanded to do certain things by the group leader and told "do this, go there, use this" blah blah blah. Thats fine, I understood why he was telling us what to do so that we all survived and made it deeper. But as said before, I felt rushed and not really in control of my own actions, and didn't really get time to look aroung and enjoy it.
Just my 2cents.