I like everything about that mission, except for Shiros part in it.
He just seems completely out of place in that mission.
I like that hes there along with the Lich.
But hes not designed for open space battle.
Hes designed for close combat in a confines space, as in Factions.
Ive just tried that mission and we basically got slaughted by Shiro, despite having the rest of the mission done.
It wasnt because we werent doing dmg. We had him down to 1/4 of his health.
But thats another thing. He regens very easily, and fast. Once he reaches 1/4down his health, he seems to stop taking dmg.
But anyway;
You cant fight him effectively in a very open space, because he DOESNT stand still for more then 2 seconds.
Our team ended up nothing more then a bunch of scare little rabbits, running away from him around the entire battle area until we finally all decided to die 15 minutes later.
He moves too fast, and teleports and his health stops decreasing at a set point.
I just think he (at his current fighting style) isnt meant for a large fighting area.
Yes the degen effects work and do knock his health, but as mentioned, once he reaches 1/4 down, he just seems to stop loosing health.
I think a tweak of somekind if needed.
[edit]
Im not saying the mission is hard; Just that its frustrating and annoys you and takes the fun out of the game.
Shiro needs tweaked. Make his health drop at the same rate.
Either have it drop fast like it does at the start, or have it drop slow like it does at the end.
And make his movements a bit less eratic.
[edit]
completed it on the second time of getting to shiro :P
No shrines uses. Purely hacking at Shiro while I cast " ward against..." around him.
So I was wrong.
Anyone agree that "gates of madness" is flawed?
freekedoutfish
Rera
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0070424&page=9
fatmouse
If your warriors don't run around like headless chickens as soon as they get hit, he wont run around either. The AI of all enemies only changes targets when their current target starts running.
Some Guru Named Kai
Just because your party was wiped out doesn't make it flawed. Refer to the many, many, many other players that have beat the mission. This is just another "Oh noes, Shiro completely pizowned us, nerf it! nerf it!" If that was the case, why not make everything Ascalon-like so everyone can finish the game in 1 hour.
Next time, look around, you're not the only one whining. Yes, OP's post is a whine against how a 2nd to the last mission boss is hard. It's near the end! Of course it's going to be a challenge. You want a push-over mission, go play the first Istani mission over and over and over, then celebrate your victory over that.
Apologize if this became a bit of a rant, but I'm tired to seeing the forum flooded with "Mercy on me, I can't beat it" threads. People need to realize you can't just whack and smash everything, instead, tactics (as in builds and team cooperation) needs to be taken into consideration.
Next time, look around, you're not the only one whining. Yes, OP's post is a whine against how a 2nd to the last mission boss is hard. It's near the end! Of course it's going to be a challenge. You want a push-over mission, go play the first Istani mission over and over and over, then celebrate your victory over that.
Apologize if this became a bit of a rant, but I'm tired to seeing the forum flooded with "Mercy on me, I can't beat it" threads. People need to realize you can't just whack and smash everything, instead, tactics (as in builds and team cooperation) needs to be taken into consideration.
TechnoSword
Although I died at least 3 times in the process I beat him with hero/hench way. The only reason he moves around so much is because for one, riposting shadows, shadowsteps him to the most recent person that attacks him, AI auto makes him run away every once in a while, and of course he naturally targets monks first. All you have to do is use your characters ( mine was melee ) to body block him from charging the monks which i had flagged behind me far away but enough to cast spells. and basically i was the only damage dealer besides my necro using spoil victor / parasite thing, and when he casts IO your guys are all out of the way except for you, tell your monks to cast prot spells all over you and you should be fine. Not that complicated as people make it out to be, they just send in their damamge dealers to charge him and he IO kills them all because they dont have strategies besides stabbity stab stab stab slash.
Esprit
If you can keep conditions on him long enough a Dervish can stand up to Impossible Odds with Avatar of Balthazar + Conviction + Armor of Sanctity. Of course that was for about 2 seconds before he was nice to give the conditions back.
And yes, at about 1/4 health he becomes much harder to kill. My group ended spending more time taking away that 1/4 health than capping the shrines and taking away the first 3/4 of his health.
And yes, at about 1/4 health he becomes much harder to kill. My group ended spending more time taking away that 1/4 health than capping the shrines and taking away the first 3/4 of his health.
Antheus
Getting him to 20-40% is easy. People die at last part.
Open space? True. This is why it's recommended to capture the shrines. Not only do you get masters, you also get many buffs, and you fight him in a smaller space.
Too fast? Shire can remove hexes, but not fast enough. Mesmer with slowdown skills is useful. Cripple doesn't work, since he spreads it and cripples your group. Actually, anti-melee mesmer is great for this mission.
Bring fast casting single target nuking skills. Meteor storm won't do much. And casters will rarely have 3-5 seconds time to stand still with Shiro around.
Party member rule #1: If shiro attacks you, run like a headless chicken. Tanks tank. Nobody else. Even tanks will die fast against IO unless proted properly.
Rez early, rez fast (good general rule in any case). If Shiro kills someone, hit the rez signet immediately. Anyone, except monks of course.
Spread out. Never stay in a group. It takes the bite out of IO.
Use helpful anti-melee hexes: SV, empathy, blackout, diversion, SS, ...
Bring anti-melee enchants and skills: ward against melee, guardian, aegis, prot spirit, shield of absorbtion, ...
Heros/Henchies are generally horrible for the mission, since they don't understand the above, and you'll need to control each and every one of them. Unless you can do that, you'll have problems.
Real people will make this mission much easier, if for only one reason. They can kite much better than AI ever will, and they can still be effective. Of course, some players don't kite.
Open space? True. This is why it's recommended to capture the shrines. Not only do you get masters, you also get many buffs, and you fight him in a smaller space.
Too fast? Shire can remove hexes, but not fast enough. Mesmer with slowdown skills is useful. Cripple doesn't work, since he spreads it and cripples your group. Actually, anti-melee mesmer is great for this mission.
Bring fast casting single target nuking skills. Meteor storm won't do much. And casters will rarely have 3-5 seconds time to stand still with Shiro around.
Party member rule #1: If shiro attacks you, run like a headless chicken. Tanks tank. Nobody else. Even tanks will die fast against IO unless proted properly.
Rez early, rez fast (good general rule in any case). If Shiro kills someone, hit the rez signet immediately. Anyone, except monks of course.
Spread out. Never stay in a group. It takes the bite out of IO.
Use helpful anti-melee hexes: SV, empathy, blackout, diversion, SS, ...
Bring anti-melee enchants and skills: ward against melee, guardian, aegis, prot spirit, shield of absorbtion, ...
Heros/Henchies are generally horrible for the mission, since they don't understand the above, and you'll need to control each and every one of them. Unless you can do that, you'll have problems.
Real people will make this mission much easier, if for only one reason. They can kite much better than AI ever will, and they can still be effective. Of course, some players don't kite.
justadude
Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Guru Named Kai
JRefer to the many, many, many other players that have beat the mission.
Please refer to the many, many, many player who still have not gotten in a good group to beat it yet and to the many, many, many players spending up to 10 days on this mission. Also refer to the many, many, many players who have beat the mission only to feel, not accomplishment, but annoyance at the poor mission design.
I would also like to refer to the fact that sometimes things are not challenging, but annoying. I really know how to run a group through the mission up until Shiro +10 moral boost every time. It became second nature shutting down the portals due to the many times Shiro wiped the more often than not good parties I was in. Putting such a buffed Shiro (what was with the Lich anyway?) at the end made the entire thing annoying because of the time invested to face such, well, impossible odds...
Now, running over a bridge to face impossible odds is alright, but it is not alright after 30 minutes of mission. That is flawed design.
And in closing I would like to refer to the fact that Abaddon is a mere after thought. Shiro is the boss of Nightfall or did Abaddon cause you more trouble? ...now I am referring to you...
I would also like to refer to the fact that sometimes things are not challenging, but annoying. I really know how to run a group through the mission up until Shiro +10 moral boost every time. It became second nature shutting down the portals due to the many times Shiro wiped the more often than not good parties I was in. Putting such a buffed Shiro (what was with the Lich anyway?) at the end made the entire thing annoying because of the time invested to face such, well, impossible odds...
Now, running over a bridge to face impossible odds is alright, but it is not alright after 30 minutes of mission. That is flawed design.
And in closing I would like to refer to the fact that Abaddon is a mere after thought. Shiro is the boss of Nightfall or did Abaddon cause you more trouble? ...now I am referring to you...
broodijzer
Shiro is easy if you adapt and change tactics. It sounds like you guys use the same tactics over and over again (degen in OP's post for example).
Read through some skill lists, and maybe you will find some skills that can be very useful against him. I don't think that the person who found out Spoil Victor works wonders ran a SF build all nightfall, eh?
Read through some skill lists, and maybe you will find some skills that can be very useful against him. I don't think that the person who found out Spoil Victor works wonders ran a SF build all nightfall, eh?
EPO Bot
It's just the same Shiro as in Factions.Minus the banishing.
Bankai
Yeah, too be honest, I think the mission is pretty hard. First I tried it with 2 pugs, miserably failed. Then I tried with heroes and henchies. I never made it to Shiro. Finally I got to Shiro and we beat him after a long and hard battle.
Tips:
A) Do bonus
B) Bring prot spirit
C) It's best to take fast and powerful heals, like Glimmer of light or Word of Healing
D) Bring a paragon with hard res
Tips:
A) Do bonus
B) Bring prot spirit
C) It's best to take fast and powerful heals, like Glimmer of light or Word of Healing
D) Bring a paragon with hard res
EPO Bot
Wouldn't Norgu with nothing but interrupts be of any use? Add Jin or Margrid with interrupts too...
justadude
Quote:
Originally Posted by broodijzer
Shiro is easy if you adapt and change tactics. It sounds like you guys use the same tactics over and over again (degen in OP's post for example).
Read through some skill lists, and maybe you will find some skills that can be very useful against him. I don't think that the person who found out Spoil Victor works wonders ran a SF build all nightfall, eh? When I beat Shiro we had a Poison Arrow Ranger, a MM with no minions at the time and a Jagged Strike Assassin. No SV or Mesmer. I had gone often with Sv and all kinds of monks before, trying every strategy posted in the forums. Now I am going to say it was the Assassin with Jagged Strike who somehow kept IO from crushing us, because I have no idea what Jagged Strike does.
I agree, Shiro is easy. He is one mob to attack, with no patrols to avoid while fighting other groups or rushing in to quickly kill portal wraiths before patrols come back. Impossible Odds and his regen is not easy. Those are artificially inflated to make him hard to beat, unlike those of the Lich...
Read through some skill lists, and maybe you will find some skills that can be very useful against him. I don't think that the person who found out Spoil Victor works wonders ran a SF build all nightfall, eh? When I beat Shiro we had a Poison Arrow Ranger, a MM with no minions at the time and a Jagged Strike Assassin. No SV or Mesmer. I had gone often with Sv and all kinds of monks before, trying every strategy posted in the forums. Now I am going to say it was the Assassin with Jagged Strike who somehow kept IO from crushing us, because I have no idea what Jagged Strike does.
I agree, Shiro is easy. He is one mob to attack, with no patrols to avoid while fighting other groups or rushing in to quickly kill portal wraiths before patrols come back. Impossible Odds and his regen is not easy. Those are artificially inflated to make him hard to beat, unlike those of the Lich...
0mar
The last mission is only the mission where you have to meta-game it, meaning you have to know what's coming up before playing the mission. Other than that, it's not overly difficult.
freekedoutfish
Quote:
Originally Posted by justadude
Please refer to the many, many, many player who still have not gotten in a good group to beat it yet and to the many, many, many players spending up to 10 days on this mission. Also refer to the many, many, many players who have beat the mission only to feel, not accomplishment, but annoyance at the poor mission design.
I would also like to refer to the fact that sometimes things are not challenging, but annoying. I really know how to run a group through the mission up until Shiro +10 moral boost every time. It became second nature shutting down the portals due to the many times Shiro wiped the more often than not good parties I was in. Putting such a buffed Shiro (what was with the Lich anyway?) at the end made the entire thing annoying because of the time invested to face such, well, impossible odds...
Now, running over a bridge to face impossible odds is alright, but it is not alright after 30 minutes of mission. That is flawed design.
And in closing I would like to refer to the fact that Abaddon is a mere after thought. Shiro is the boss of Nightfall or did Abaddon cause you more trouble? ...now I am referring to you... I think you pretty much said everything I was thinking and what I was going to say in reply to the same post.
Ive never said the mission was hard, or if I did, I didnt mean to.
And yes we had all the shrines taken and we were buffed up with all the plus this and that.
We tried body blocking with the warriors, but as mentioned, he teleports away.
I just think Shiro is illl-designed for that mission in such a way that hes too frustrating to kill because of it.
And I find it just illogical as to why his health stops dropping at the same rate, when he reaches about 1/4 down. Why? whats different with him from when hes completely healthy?
He even seems to fight differently then how he did in factions.
His movement is alot more random and eratic. In factions he tended to focus in one place and occassionally teleport.
Now hes like a jumping jack rabbit, bopping all over the place.
All I suggets is they sort this issue with his health not dropping at all after its left with just 1/4 the way down. And make his movements a bit less eratic.
The mission is just frustrating not hard.
I would also like to refer to the fact that sometimes things are not challenging, but annoying. I really know how to run a group through the mission up until Shiro +10 moral boost every time. It became second nature shutting down the portals due to the many times Shiro wiped the more often than not good parties I was in. Putting such a buffed Shiro (what was with the Lich anyway?) at the end made the entire thing annoying because of the time invested to face such, well, impossible odds...
Now, running over a bridge to face impossible odds is alright, but it is not alright after 30 minutes of mission. That is flawed design.
And in closing I would like to refer to the fact that Abaddon is a mere after thought. Shiro is the boss of Nightfall or did Abaddon cause you more trouble? ...now I am referring to you... I think you pretty much said everything I was thinking and what I was going to say in reply to the same post.
Ive never said the mission was hard, or if I did, I didnt mean to.
And yes we had all the shrines taken and we were buffed up with all the plus this and that.
We tried body blocking with the warriors, but as mentioned, he teleports away.
I just think Shiro is illl-designed for that mission in such a way that hes too frustrating to kill because of it.
And I find it just illogical as to why his health stops dropping at the same rate, when he reaches about 1/4 down. Why? whats different with him from when hes completely healthy?
He even seems to fight differently then how he did in factions.
His movement is alot more random and eratic. In factions he tended to focus in one place and occassionally teleport.
Now hes like a jumping jack rabbit, bopping all over the place.
All I suggets is they sort this issue with his health not dropping at all after its left with just 1/4 the way down. And make his movements a bit less eratic.
The mission is just frustrating not hard.
vojnik
Same fighting as in factions, just has 2 less skills.
You really have to complain about everything dont ya?
You really have to complain about everything dont ya?
Antheus
Quote:
Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
He even seems to fight differently then how he did in factions.
His movement is alot more random and eratic. In factions he tended to focus in one place and occassionally teleport. AI change, and different skills, different map. Theus
They should give Shiro his Meditation of the Reaper.Except,make the damage output Higher.And give him his Echoing Banishment skill,so he could teleport classes out of range of parties.Like monks.That would be awesome.
jaymat
sure this mission is ahrd, but thats what i luv about it. took me 2 attempts with heros/hench to beat this mission. 1st time was to find that shiro was there and after knowing hes there and having faced him in factions i knew exactly what to take. i just put wild blow onto my warriors bar and spoil victor on my MM's bar and made sure he used it. make sure you dont attack both shiro and the lich together cos u will find it will b much harder, flag ur hench away and use ur bow to lure 1 of em away from the other then kill.
use a bit of common sense and the correct skills and shiro is easy.
icedragon981
This mission was hard for me at first too but I finally was able to Hero/Hench it easily after I got mine and my Hero's build's worked out.
Me - Command Paragon with "Incoming!" Koss - Glads Defense with Wild Blow (made sure he spammed it every time it recharged, this completly shuts down his self healing) Master of Whispers - Spoil Victor and multiple life stealing and degen hexes. Dunkoro - Prot (a prot monk makes this mission SO much easier) Forgot the exact henchies I used though. >.> <.< After getting to the temple I didn't even worry about the bonus, I flagged all my heros/hench except for Koss pretty far away so they wouldn't take aggro and Koss could take most of Shiro's initial attacks and pulled both the Lich and Shiro. Shiro is not a danger at first if you don't attack him so after pull both of the lvl 31s, I made all the heros and hench focus solely on the Lich who went down easy. After this I had Koss spam wild blow on Shiro, Master keep SV on him and Dunkoro keep Shiros target protted until he started using Ripositing Shadows and started attacking my casters. I threw up "Incoming!" and some other supportive chants/shouts and widdled Shiro down to about 1/4th Health, here was the fun part. Koss got him out of Battle Scars with wild blow so he couldn't heal and Master of Whispers took out a lot of Shiro's health with SV as he was using IO which didn't affect the party much since I had everyone taking Half damage with "Incoming!" and Dunkoro had most everyone well protted but here was the odd part. Shiro shadow steped himself in between Koss and a wall and became stuck there, constantly attacking the fully protted and healed warrior, constantly damaging himself due to SV along with all the other damage being thrown at him by us. Eventually he killed himself with SV trying to kill Koss and get free but to no avail. My point(s): Wild blow, Spoil Victor and many good prot skills turn Shiro into a harmless rabbit. (Not like the one from Monty Python and the Holy Grail)
LifeInfusion
Whining doesn't help. Grab snare+ weak/blind/miss hex and some armor ignoring damage.
Zinger314
Gates of Madness was designed as an idiot detector.
From what I can tell from this topic, it appears to have worked. I'm tempted to write a "Gates of Madness" soap opera...
Doomlord_Slayermann
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
I'm tempted to write a "Gates of Madness" soap opera...
That would be awesome.
I've made this comment in the other threads, and I'll make it again. The problem is that the rest of the game is too easy and lets bad players get to the part that finally kicks their asses. The whole game should be this hard, requiring you to think on your feet and plan in advance in order to have any success. I might actually do more PvE then.
Some Guru Named Kai
Quote:
Originally Posted by justadude
Please refer to the many, many, many player who still have not gotten in a good group to beat it yet and to the many, many, many players spending up to 10 days on this mission. Also refer to the many, many, many players who have beat the mission only to feel, not accomplishment, but annoyance at the poor mission design.
I would also like to refer to the fact that sometimes things are not challenging, but annoying. I really know how to run a group through the mission up until Shiro +10 moral boost every time. It became second nature shutting down the portals due to the many times Shiro wiped the more often than not good parties I was in. Putting such a buffed Shiro (what was with the Lich anyway?) at the end made the entire thing annoying because of the time invested to face such, well, impossible odds... Now, running over a bridge to face impossible odds is alright, but it is not alright after 30 minutes of mission. That is flawed design. And in closing I would like to refer to the fact that Abaddon is a mere after thought. Shiro is the boss of Nightfall or did Abaddon cause you more trouble? ...now I am referring to you... If you don't know what I'm talking about, go look at all the "Shiro's too tough for me whine whine whine" and I can guarantee there's the same amount of people, if not more, in those topics able to tell you how to beat it and have beaten it themselves. Hell, just in this topic there's already proof of that. If it was a poor mission design, then no one will be able to beat it, yet we see many primeval armor throughout Elona which proves that it is able to be beaten. So please, before you blame everyone else for your failures, take a look at yourself and improve. If one way doesn't work, the common sense thing to do is to change tactics. If you're new to Guild Wars, there's no one single way to beat everything. As for unable to set up parties and whatnot, that's not new and isn't the fault of the mission. Nightfall is considerably new in terms of near-end-game missions. Instead of nerfing Gates of Maddness, Anet should focus on buffering Abaddon to make him harder. People who roll over in defeat, and cry for mercy are pathetic, even more pathetic when there's so many others giving you the knowledge on how to beat such mission. Anet should have placed this mission at the end of Istani island, before entering mainland, that way people who aren't failures like us, can rake in the profit from greens this weekend.
fenix
I agree with Some Guru, Abaddon should be buffed. That mission is much too easy, it should be ridiculously hard, like instead of the monsters it spawns (name is lost on me atm), it should spawn Shiro/Lich and some Margonites or something. Gates of Madness was fun, isn't at all hard with an organised team, or one that actually know how to play Guild Wars.
Antheus
Quote:
Originally Posted by talon
it should spawn Shiro/Lich and some Margonites or something. Gates of Madness was fun, isn't at all hard with an organised team, or one that actually know how to play Guild Wars.
Last mission is highly skill dependant. Having two LoD/extinguish monks will allow just about any team to beat it. But without those, you're in a world of hurt. It also requires the strategy to take down the guardians in order, retreat when needed, and pay attention at claws.
The mission is quite demanding. Of course, for an organized team, nothing will ever be hard. Just like UW was intended to be hard, it's strictly solo/duo affair since launch. This, in many cases, is definition of skill. No ammount of grind will get you past the mission until you actually know how to play. In a grind game you'd get up to highest level, buy good gear, then set up combat macro and go for lunch. Once you consider all of the content easy, you've mastered GW. That by itself is a reward.
Zehnchu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Guru Named Kai
If it was a poor mission design, then no one will be able to beat it, yet we see many primeval armor throughout Elona which proves that it is able to be beaten. So please, before you blame everyone else for your failures, take a look at yourself and improve. If one way doesn't work, the common sense thing to do is to change tactics. If you're new to Guild Wars, there's no one single way to beat everything. As for unable to set up parties and whatnot, that's not new and isn't the fault of the mission. Nightfall is considerably new in terms of near-end-game missions. Instead of nerfing Gates of Maddness, Anet should focus on buffering Abaddon to make him harder. People who roll over in defeat, and cry for mercy are pathetic, even more pathetic when there's so many others giving you the knowledge on how to beat such mission. Anet should have placed this mission at the end of Istani island, before entering mainland, that way people who aren't failures like us, can rake in the profit from greens this weekend. |
I’ll say it again, Item’s Armor, Titles don’t make you elite, just make’s you a want-a-be who can't think out side your own box.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Gates of Madness was designed as an idiot detector.
From what I can tell from this topic, it appears to have worked. I'm tempted to write a "Gates of Madness" soap opera... This makes me laugh, you don't want to be left out yet you to leave out others.
Queenie
Gates Of Madness was definetly a pain in the butt to do :|
We killed the Lich first and then attempted to kill Shiro, we got owned a few times. We ended up running to each of the gods alters and killing the magnorites while shiro tryed to kill us, we got all the boosts and then went backed and kicked his ass.  It was fun :3
Theus
Yeah.Abbadon needs to be buffed.
All you need is mass condition removal for "Words of Madness"(I think thats the skill name..the skill that does 100+ damage and Dazed to all.) All our group needed was a W/Mo Balanced Stance/Martyr warrior.
Curse You
Well I'm amazed.
I did this mission, as well as the two before it (Gate of Pain & Ruins of Morah), IN ONE TRY. What did I do? I altered MY build to suit the mission. When I heard that Shiro was in the mission, I knew that Spoil Victor would demolish him, and so I changed from my normal build, into a SV necro. All you need to kill Shiro is a good tank, a good monk, and a SV nerco. The tank stands there, tanking damage while the monk heals him from a safe distance and the SV necro just keeps SV on Shiro. I've always laughed at people who think that warriors should use superior runes in PvE, and use the rune to have 16 axe mastery, when they should be tanking.
Trakata
Sometimes I wish someone would sticky a topic reading:
"Regardless of whether or not you think Gate of Madness is difficult, SHUT UP ABOUT IT." It's old. 25% of people say "Nerf anet plz omg" and then the other 75% come into the topic, adding nothing constructive, saying "lolx nub can't beat shiro" Shiro is difficult by comparison. You can't stand around and smack him to death like the rest of the game. I don't personally like the mission, because it's stupid to me. One moron bodyguard causes more grief than all 19 other missions combined, including an insane God and a powerful Lich. Yes, I've beaten it. Old stuff. Anti-Melee works well, Protection Prayers are amazing against Shiro. I personally don't think conditions are viable, but some disagree. Just an attempt to help those stuck at Gate.
Karlos
Well, the difference between Shiro in this mission and Shiro in Factions is that you do not have the Celestial Skills from Kuunavang to seal the deal. As such, many players fail to spend the short (but necessary) time to understand his skills and how to counter them.
You need stance breakers to kill his "Battle Scars", Battle Scars is his primary heal. You need to set your hero monks to "Passive" mode to they don't wand him and have him shadow step to them. You need to know that when he falls down to 25 or 20% helth he will invoke Impossible Odds. Impossible Odds will make him double strike EVERYONE nearby. If he has that on AND Battle Scars and he's standing in the midle of several players, he will damage heaps of people AND get healed for a lot of life. As such, once he is near 25-30%, your party nees to make sure no one is in "Nearby" range (go to the Isle of the Nameless if you don't know how wide that is) and the tanks MUST get ready to break his Battle Scars as soon as he puts it on. This way the spike from Impossible Odds will be a lot less effective. Finally, Impossible Odds transfers all conditions on him to nearby foes that he's striking. This is why it's not good to rely on blindness/weakness/Crippling in the last portion of the fight. Even though hexes last a LOT shorter on him than they usually do, they are the way to go at the end of the fight. Hope this helps. I know people will try and post that they have done it without half these things, I am just explaining what is going on. I am sure people's creativity is endless.
Fluffyx
The mission at first gave us problems since we were not expecting the spawns in the part before the temple. The second time it was pretty easy, we beat it but I was dropped at the last part -_- . So after doing this mission 4 times and succeeding 3/4 times it can't be that hard.
Necro1:SS, faint, and other anti melee (curses) Necro2:Spoil Victor and other anti melee (blood) (Human)Dervish: AoE Both henchie monks Ele/me: running interupts (Human)Mesmer: Ineptitude and other anti melee Koss: Tanking and Grenths balance Paragon henchie You could do this with one human even, once you get the general idea of the mission its actually very easy.
strcpy
Personally, I don't really care. I tried it once and had other problems (mainly, I had a really really bad team setup for this mission). As long as it is doable, I'll get it eventually and I do not mind the challenge.
However, one needs to also realize that there are different levels of players along with different skill level. For instance, I had no character any where close to capping Spoil Victor. For me, no big deal I'll just get a character far enough in Factions that I can cap it (I never liked Factions enough to play it that far. My necro is in the hatchery now, one mission away. Though I took time off for the greens and to get Vabbian armor - got my fill of both this weekend). But what about the people without Factions? Or without Prophecies for SS? Or what about the unwanted classes if it needs a co-ordinated experienced team? I understand people wanting the challenge - again it's fine with me also, I'll get through it eventually and there is plenty of other things to do. It's not like I'm going to rage-quit or become more than slightly annoyed, but this game needs the "casual" player. Requiring end/late game elites (that's OK if it requires ones from Nightfall, but requiring you to have nearly beaten the other two previous games also is bad game design for something intended to be standalone) to do any good is going to drive people away. While you may very well get your "noob filter" (or heaven forbid like a previous poster wanted - *all* missions to be hard for an experienced co-ordinated team), it will be the last as few will purchase again later. The saving grace here is that a good portion of the "casual" gamers never get this far. Though I would say elite missions are where higher to high levels of difficulty needs to come in, not main story line. Of course, just having the one elite mission hurts the higher end player too. It still needs to be realistic that a person owning only Nightfall is going to beat the mission with heroes and henchies. Based on what I have read about all the working tactics that is horribly untrue. As to how to fix that, dunno. A nerf to Shiro is easy, but I do not think that is exactly the right answer - I would suggest (amongst other things) having the lightbringer title play into it similar to a celestial skill in Factions. It will be interesting to see if Anet adjusts this mission in some way - for one thing we can whine and bicker all day long but without server logs it is impossible to tell if the failure rate is unacceptable. fatmouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
I've always laughed at people who think that warriors should use superior runes in PvE, and use the rune to have 16 axe mastery, when they should be tanking.
If you're planning on going below 75 health you're not a very good tank to begin with are you?
Karlos
strcpy, if you read what I just posted, you will discover that you rpost is entirely unwarranted. I have beaten Shiro 4/4 times with an ele and a monk. Neither time did I have anyonw with Spoil Victor, nor will Spoil Victor save your butt when good old "Impossible Odds" kicks in.
All there is to it is understanding his strengths and weaknesses. You can break his stances with any of 3 professions, you can hex snare him with 2 professions and you can interrupt him with a bunch of ways. So, overall, your statement that the mission design requires Spoil Victor or SS or whatever is simply not true.
Chris616263
I've mentioned this before in another post but I doubt anybody paid attention. I beat Shiro with all AI backup and none of the skills mentioned as being "mandatory" (except for Wild Blow).
All I did was flag them far away enough when his health was low so that all my monks did was cast healing spells on me while I tanked Shiro all alone. He used IO solely on me, and I slowly beat him to death. The hardest part of that mission was everything -but- Shiro and the Lich.
MisterB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
I've always laughed at people who think that warriors should use superior runes in PvE, and use the rune to have 16 axe mastery, when they should be tanking.
Go ahead and laugh at my warrior, then. A warrior's job is to break faces with his weapon, and 16 weapon mastery does that best. Besides, real tanks have a giant cannon to do just that-to break the enemy's face. What you are talking about is a meat shield, that's the minion master's job, should you choose to bring one. Tanking is useless in open areas with the AI update, or haven't you played warrior?
Incidentally, Shiro broke my warrior's face in Factions. I just changed my build, took 3 Necro curses, and Wild Blow. Wasn't hard to hench him after that.
yo home boi
Ive been stuck on this mission for 5days now, but now ive seen sum tips it should be a walk in the park ^^ Thx guys
garethporlest18
This build takes it.
1 W/Mo with stances of some sort. 1 Mo/? with Restore Conditions, Aegis, Prot Spirit, Guardian 1 Mo/? with WoH, Orison maybe Breeze too 1 N/Rt since we have no rit hero, with Wanderlust, Shadowsong, Bloodsong, Pain, Shelter, Union and Displacement. 1 E/? With Searing Flames, Meteor Shower and whatever else 1 Mo/? with same build as Dunkoro's 1 N/Mo who would be a MM 1 whatever you want, we used Jin as a Broadhead, Apply poison, healing spring ranger. We beat Shiro without anyone going below 50% health, I was getting conditions stacked on me though, but RC easily took care of that. But I flipped on stances when he IO and he hit me a few times but nothing to damaging with Shelter, PS, Shield of Abs and Union around. Plus he was only attacking me. The ele was another person btw. I suppose that's mostly just luck, but it's the second time I beat him easily. First time AI wasn't fixed though. Also Abaddon is annoying as hell cause it takes 30 minutes. Make him harder but the mission shorter and that's okay. |
