My opinion on the lack of improvements.

I don't know how cooking or fishing was implemented in WOW or other games, but I thought that if they did implement it in GW, it would be a separate activity that wouldn't affect the core gameplay. More like a mini-farming/trading system in GW where people could search for ingredients of different varieties and fish or cook different things and trade them with other players or npcs, e.g a fishmonger. They could have trivial effects that only work in town or such to avoid imbalance, or maybe only work in PvE regions.

I'm new to online games but looking at this discussion on life skills it seems like GW is the only (popular) online game that doesn't offer anything like that. Sure it doesn't have to be a clone, but there's a difference between trying to not be a copy of another game and not keeping up with the competition. Life skills seem to be a big attraction, look at the SIMS for one. Sure a different game but another (popular) game with life skills.

EDIT : for spelling corrections

Agrue all you want what GW is or isnt.

If the game isnt going to attract more newer players/keep the old ones interested = lesser sale = game over.

Keep going for 'more of the same', frustrate players playing the game, no 'significant improvements' and 'ignoring Players request', you can only milk the fan/player base for that long before most players leave for newer pastures. And though we think this isnt going to affect our own little world we are playing in, sorry to burst your bubble it doesnt work that way. Someone have to pay the bills.

Sales = Everything.

Oh no! Guild Wars is doooooooooooomed because because the developers aren't doing exactly what what someone on a forum wants!

While Anet has made some mistakes, not making Guild Wars a cheap World of Warcraft clone isn't one of them.

I'm using mantra of flame!
*gets an insta full energy bar *

Seriously, why all that flaming towards eachother?
Sure, everyone has improved idea's for guildwars, which other games may have allready implented... But saying to "go play that game then" is just a weak excuse for don't knowing a real awnser

Offcourse, everyone is free to give his/her own idea's and offcourse there will be allways some people who don't like it, but you must learn to respect eachother and give your own normal oppinion and reason why you think his/her idea's don't is good for guildwars. That way everyone is happy

The developers always used to say that one of the advantages of GW was the ability to reinvent itself. Much like their favorite card game. So far the reinvention is not taking place. Sure, we got new content, levels, items, storylines, but the overall gameplay is only tweaked and left untouched.

Currently the arguments on why GW does not need minigames or mounts are true. The gamedesign does not require traveling on horseback. the gamedesign does not force you to level your skills by doing a repetitous task.

the players themselves have motivation and means to do repititous tasks however. Farming. They want money and they are willing to do things over and over again for gold. A fact other MMOs capitalize on and a good starting point for a minigame.

at the same time the "makro-game" is in trouble too. the players rush from one chapter to the next, where it is all about saving the world once more. immensly huge storylines are a prime feature of GW and one which is getting increasingly boring. all the exploration and wonder of a fantasy world is lost under the constant pressure of pushing onwards to save the world. some players just love pre searing ascalon more then everything else. though doom looms over presearing, it is just a small happy place with no real problems, yet. the rest of prophecies/Factions/NF is all about destruction, wastelands and ruin. the whole fantasy world which is simply admired is completely lost.

Nightfall is especially frustrating in that regard. A series of deserts, wastelands and hell itself. no wonder most long time players still like prophecies best. Tyria at least looks like fantasy and not like MadMax/Fallout.

GW needs change, not in minigames and social skills, but in the way it presents itself as a fantasy world (and not a post-apocalyptic one).

I thought the scenery/ambience in NF was okay, maybe a bit blander than the first two but not really something that bothered me. Not even on my list of issues tbh.

If Guild Wars made me work to enjoy the game, i.e. making me fish and mine, I would quit in a heartbeat.


I work in real life so I can play Guild Wars, why should I take a lower paying job as an e-fisherman just to get to the enjoyable content?

Check out the updates page on the Guild Wars site, there are improvements (quite significant ones, too) all over the place. New stuff is being implemented, whether or not it's the stuff you want is a different story.

I cant agree more. When my first toon got out of pre-searing, i took one look at post searing and post searing ascolon, everything was so Fulgy that i stopped playing for a few days then decided to create another toon in pre-sear and stayed there for a whole month and was level 12.

I cant begin to voice my dissatification with the overall GW post-apocalyptic concepts in the design though process when designing the game other than being attributed to a lazy design mentality. If it wasnt for Kryta, i dont think i would have borthered to continue playing GWP in the first place.

Fallout series wasnt popular just because of its post-apocalyptic concept but rather being a great inventive and interactive RPG of its time, the post-apocalyptic theme was just something different that fitted into the storyline. Even so after a while it got old as well.

Seriously is there any half decent bastion of human civilization of great glory around other then the vabbian's region in Nightfall which reminded me of universal studio theme parks?

I didnt think so.

HOW I MINE 4 FISH???

(A cookie for anyone else who thought of this when they read that.)

Mounts? Er...while it would be neat at first, well...just imagine this being screamed over Local:

"I WANNA PONY! PLZZZZZZ 137G 4 MY PONY PLS"

I don't think mounts mesh with the GW world anyway; While you see Dwarves and a few other races using mounts sometimes (Dwarven mounts are more "enslaved beasts" though), you don't see humans using mounts (Unless they do in Factions, don't have that.). Everyone walks or teleports everywhere. Wurms don't count, they're a special case (They're not for more mobility, they're for not dying in that game area, which you would do without the wurm)

I'd have to agree with other people who have echoed the sentiments of "Fishing/Mining/Swimming/Jumping/Crotcheting/Plumbing are not what GW is about". Armor and weapon crafting from stuff you loot off mobs and salvage is what we have, and I'm happy with that.

If they add any "minigames", I want a minipet battle arena...or even better, a -true- 1v1 dual system/arena. Or maybe something else GW-related. "Fishing minigame" just doesn't feel like GW to me.

Oh, and go play PONG!....er...oh, right.

The only time im fishing in this game is if involves a 1/10000000 chance of getting a rare gem from a fish's stomach.

or

fishing up weapons randomly (think breath of fire)

It is not "massive". Just go out a portal and tata, only 8 players!

Guild Wars is a CORPG, also known in the industry as a COP OUT.

Or maybe its just trying to keep costs(bandwidth) down, to help maximize profit?
Sure we do! "Im using Pay the Bills on Checkbook!"

There is room for improvement. Some improvements take a very long time aparantly to get implemented (i.e. Auction House like feature). A lack of updates? I wouldn't go that far.
Everyone likes improvements, and asking for people to sign your suggestion for more improvements is asking 'do you want this game to be better?'. And of course, everyone does.

Because it takes a lot of guts and resolve to make a MMO these days.

To OP, I agree with you on the need for improvements on gameplay variety. I think Guild Wars' quick-start, fast-action, mob-cutting gameplay does appeal to a certain set of audience but it definitely isn't going to appeal the other set of audience (looking for variety) for long-term. Most likely, current and prospective GW lovers are going to carry on getting the newer releases of chapters while those that have been disappointed with GW's 'simplistic' gameplay are probably never going to come back. As time goes by, GW can definitely appeal to new players, however, I feel that the more important issue here is whether the game can retain the interests of those players. Being an RPG which easily feels like an MMORPG, most prospective players probably aren't thinking of playing GW as a game which you complete and move on to another; they would want to feel like playing this long-term. As such, only players who feel at ease with GW's core gameplay will stay long while the rest, they'd most likely move on to something else. I think this has an obvious impact on the amount of sales that ANet can generate, with less sales, ANet is going to run an unprofitable business. I don't think I need to go on futher on that as Thallandor has already summarised.

Most of us do know that GW is coined CORPG, however, we should be reminded that this does not mean that GW cannot incorporate MMORPG-like features nor the implementation has to be exact to other MMORPGs. As of now, GW does not have alot to offer, however, the potential is definitely there. It shouldn't hurt anyone to have those features there as long as the core (mob-killing) gameplay isn't changed and doesn't constitute a negative impact on the economy or game balacing. On the contrary, it does have the positive effect of being able to appeal to a bigger variety of audience, and also the likeliness to retain players. But of cos, there's a conflict of interests here: current lovers of the core gameplay would rather those time to be spent on things like PvE and PvP content.

To OP:
There are only few folks here who are broad-minded enough to understand what you're looking for. Anyway, it all boils down to the direction ANet is taking GW. Ultimately, GW might not be a game suitable for some of us here. I think it's really nice of ANet to make improvements over time, but I worry that those 'improvements' may be going the wrong direction.

To those who were saying that we do not need to craft items:
I think that allowing items to be crafted wouldn't cause balancing issues unless you're worried about the 'l33t' factor. Crafting can be tied to life skills and only subjected to weapons. When that time comes, ANet can remove weaponsmiths or try to provide some differentiating factors to use them. Depending on the implementation, this could open up new avenues for the economy. Can't a hero be an expert crafter too?

To those who were over-reacting to swimming/fishing/mounts:
OP was just using that as an abstract example and not meaning that it is exactly those things.

To all:
I don't think we should let ideas be restricted by what GW currently offers. Sure new features are gonna take time, but these things can take place over time, not neccessarily now. In fact, every new chapter seems to be a good time to add each new feature.

This game is not a MMORPG like it stated. I wish other improvement such as .. "Real AI" for enemies is installed and no more dumb cloning enemies skill on them.

Yeap, it's coined CORPG since ANet couldn't commit to the server load and GW is instanced. Not a bad idea really, not everyone likes the general idea of an MMORPG (no storyline, relatively slow-paced, etc).

With the popularity of MMORPGs, however, other types of RPGs are gradually shifting towards gameplay variety and non-linearity. While GW can stay the same, I'm thinking if new players will expect differently from the game. GW has set a trend for such massive online games to have a storyline, I think that's a pretty good start (since some players need this), but personally I think it should stick to Prophecies-style with respect to getting around to places for a better gaming experience in the aspect of adventuring (for those that don't show much concern for the storyline).

Since GW has pretty much started with relatively less features compared to MMORPGs, I feel that it has the potential to strike a good balance as a CORPG with MMORPG-like features (without having to become full-fledge MMORPG) and being able to appeal to a wider variety of audience. When that time comes, prospective players may only need to decide if they are concerned with the issue of playing in an instanced (dungeon-style) environment or not (as compared to MMORPGs).

Ultimately, this really depends on the roadmap that ANet has for GW, since they may be unwilling to move towards GW being MMORPG-like or that such features would require even heavier server loads / development costs which is difficult to justify at this point of time.

What do u mean "Improvements", We already got improvements!!!


DUR.. do u remember hero's? Do u remember Saved Builds? Do u remember New ai? Do you remember A WHOLE NEW CAMPAIGN? DO U REMEMBER THE NEW WEAPONS?DO U REMEMBER THE NEW PETS? DO U REMEMBER THE PROFESSIONS? DO U REMEMBER THE ELITE MISSION? DO U REMEMBER THE NEW STUFF FOR PVP(the Weapon making thing and armor thing.) I don't understand, no matter WHAT anet does, u r NEVER happy.

and yea, guess what. GO PLAY WOW for mounts. they're STUPID!

Sorry for my flame, but I'm tired of ungrateful B*s*erds.

I wonder what changes are in store for Chapter 4.

Guild Wars is not a MMORPG. Here's why.
Massive Multiplayer (8 people does not count as "massive" in most internet games) Guild Wars is a 3D Diablo 2 with virtual chatrooms (towns). The only time more than 8 people can play together is in pvp.

Online Role Playing Game - check.

MMORPG's have the hidden connotation that they are persistant. GW is not. Follow another group outside and you won't find them when you load.

Guild Wars is NOT a MMORPG(Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game) nor is it what ANet likes to call it, a CORPG(Competitive Online Role Playing Game). It is instead a TPFS... a Third Person Fantasy Shooter.

It may not be a MMORPG... But I DO play it as a MMORPG! Thanx to the great improvement of adding heroes and a system to control them. This system also makes it a wargame (Warhammer uses the same system). No improvements? I think Nightfall is the very best chapter (at least for PvE)!

To me Guild Wars is an MG (multiplayer game)..and here is why.

It is not massivly multiplayer. 8 people is not massive.

It is no longer online imo, internet connection could not even be needed to play.

It is not roleplaying, all you can do is fight..fight..fight...

Really, this game poorly uses its instanced system. At least make maps fully customizable then, since it is a single portion only for you. This way, at least you can use them a little bit more to their potential.

I'm hoping for Chapter 4 a pvp map where 10-20 people spawn randomly and its free for all. You get points based on how long you go without dying and how many players you kill. Maybe for each player you kill you get 1 point, but for every minute you are alive you get a multiplier x2. So if you survive for 1 minute and kill 1 person you get 2 points, and if you survive for 2 minutes and kill 1 person you get 4 points for them etc....

Is this on topic? *sigh*

Really though, I'm happy with the changes/improvements/etc. Do some things need to be nerfe*cough* changed or adjusted? Sure, but they have 6 months to put out another game so don't expect frequent weekly updates, which ironically would be more WoW like....

MMORPG definition is kinda loose, it was initially used to coin EQ which supported massive number of gamers online; shardfenix's point on the persistence aspect is very true for the current definition (MMORPG players exist in a persistent world). CORPG coined for GW was definitely considered more appropriate as the game had been intended more on the PvP end (competition). I believe there are a fair number of people that doesn't know about that yet, or that perhaps they were misled since many often referred to GW as MMORPG (even game reviews). Personally, I find WoW being more of a '3D' Diablo II (skill trees and item-focused) than GW (only similarity is perhaps dungeon-style with a storyline); GW's more of a trading card game where each skill is a card.

Anyway, that's besides the point. GW at the very core, can never be MMORPG; adding MMORPG-like features will not make GW MMORPG either. For those that feel GW adding life-skills is like trying to clone WoW, do understand that the introduction of life-skills had began long ago with games like Breath of Fire series; MMORPG simply made life-skills better to suit their open-ended gameplay. The releasing of new chapters can be referred to as the 'length' of the game, GW's game mechanics being the 'depth'; but OP was referring to more of the 'breadth' (the capacity with which you could do something in a given context). If I put 'breadth' into PvP context, it would be like introducing new PvP modes, as with when AB was introduced.

Let's just put it this way: assuming development bandwidth/time issues were non-existent and that ANet is in the perfect state of being able to deliver everything at once, would you prefer expansion of gameplay variety or leave GW as what it currently is?

Lol. I think Strategy Beat'em Up fits the bill better.

Definetly expand on gameplay, I firmly believe variety is the spice of life.

I agree with some of your points,however more people are opting to hero/hench missions and quests now then PUG( yes we all know PUGs have there downfalls but my 2 best ingame friends are from PUGs)

And for PvP players unless u have uber-godly luck you WILL fight at least one heroway team. And ive had my heroway team completly obliterate a ranked full human team and i cant rlly work out the conventions of the heroes

Gah i forogot what else i was gonna say...

(Sorry if i sounded a little flamey)

Ungrateful?

Did Anet give you your copies of GW for free? Because you seem to be wrapping around this strange notion of gratitude.

Duh! do you remember paying $50.00 for your game.

now Back to the topic on hand


I don't aggree with the poster of this topic, I would hate to see my favorate game turn into another wow,mounts,fishing etc.
However having said that I respect his ideas and his post and his opinion and how DARE SOME OF YOU TELL HIM TO GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME ?If that all you got to say it's clear that you got nothing to say!so keep quiet until you have somthing meaningful to add to this topic.

Anet has compared GW to Magic: The Gathering http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering

Others point out that it has a lot of aspects of FPSs.

I think the fun that comes from GW is primarily from creating interesting/effective builds, using builds well, coming up with counters for common builds, etc. In short, strategy and skill are at the core of guild wars.

However, there is a bit of a dilemma for Anet since the majority of players are in PvE and actually enjoy grinding. The strategy/skill aspect of GW won't keep these players around for long.

Anet has sanctioned grind (although they would be loathe to admit it) and probably realizes its appeal to a lot of their players. FoW armor and Faction Farming are two examples that come to mind.

In order to keep a large part of their player base happy, they will have to introduce some new grind activities, be it fishing, or basket weaving, or whatever. Those of us that are fans of the strategy/skill aspect will stay around, but the # of active pvp vs pve farming districts and surveys (too lazy to search) show that us strategy fans are in the minority.

I'm sure the decline in sales from Prohecies (#4 game in 2005), to Factions (#5, #1, & #3 for 3 consecutive months), to NF (#5 & #10 for only 2 weeks) has caught their attention [taken from NPD].

I don't get this. This game's coregamplay is COMPLETELY different, so with little minigames or life skills how will it turn into another WoW?

hahahahahahahahaha!

I guess we all know why huh?

-back to the topic

Well when i first saw this topic i thought "guess someone is about to 'complain' about some necessary updates that were left behind"
Guess you didint. There goes a good chance of making a good thread.

But anyways, first of all i would like to thank A.net such an awsome game. I liked how you took the esscence of "what was going to be" Diablo2, turned into a 3D game and expanded expanded expanded turning it into what we call it Guild Wars today.
(although i prefered the Druid for shapeshifting, but maybe at chapter 4 huh)

But one thing that i dont get is why you still didnt "upgrade" the last chapters to create a single game system. As an example: the armor crafters at Tyria, Cantha and at Elona. At Elona you can choose your armor's skin and you can add any existing and any possible new mod at your armor, so thit way, you can choose your armor style and you can change its mods any time you want (basically, its perfect) . At Cantha its preety much the same way, but you buy it from the crafter with any pre-nightfall mod, and in order to change the mods, you have to buy a whole new armor. Also, there are mods that did not exsited by the time Factions were released, so your possibilities are really restricted compared to the elonian armor model. At Tyria it gets worst, every armor model has its own bonus, this way you can never get a Ascalon armor with 100 armor (with 13 strenght required, of course)
For the older headsets for example, you gave them all +1 energy to compensate some headsets model that already gave an upgrade (ascalon helm).
So today, people that take pvp seriously, cant play pvp with their pve characters like they used to at Factions because of this, any Dervish with wildblow will just "own" you, the damage is devastating.
To those who are thinking "omfg, buy a new helm then you 'n00b'": i shouldnt have to! What if i want play with my warrior with Kinights set? I cant, because of this.

And there is also the inscription "issue".
At Elona if you find a weapon with the requirements you want/need, you can just make the weapon of your choice, and for that the prices of the weapons at Elona at not as high as the Tyrian and Canthan. You can easly get 80,000 gold from a Fellblade with 15^50 or a Gothic Sword 15^50, and you wont get more then 35,000 with an Elemental Sword with 15^50, because the 15^50 upgrade doesnt really matter now, but they are what makes the Gothic Sword and the Fellblade so damn expensive. Not to mention the shields, the numbers are astronomic. This made most of the skins unavailable to most of the players because the perfect/semi-perfect are only acessible to those who are really lucky, or to those who farmed with 55 monks (or such) and for that they are millionares today. If the inscriptions were applyed to every item in the game, i am sure most of itens would be more acessible to the players.

The Favor of the Gods "issue".
Why cant we get to Underworld or Fissure by other means if not the Temple of the Ages? We relly too much on the rest of the server to get the favor, the only server that holds the altar at HoH nowadays is Europe, the rest of the servers hardly ever get the favor of the gods, try to get into Taiwan server and ask them where Fissure of Woe is. I really feel bad for them.
You should put that "choose a server" option to a good use and add America and Europe, this way we could change server if we want to play FoW or UW. Getting the favor nowadays is not really important, you dont need it to get to the new end-game areas, it does not have the same impact, its just something that bother us now knowing we cant get to Fow or UW.

Talking about FoW/UW.
I think we are all tired of seeing the 55 monks getting all the ectos, why not end it for once and for all? Add a system where the loot quantity/quality decreases deppending on how may players you have in your team, and get a bonus if you have team with a maximum number of players, this would estimulate people to form larger groups and not play "duo 55" or "5 man run".
These are the major issues at these areas. Another thing you could do, is add new professions down there, increase the dificulty, increase the drops, make them compareble to the end-game areas at the other chapters. I mean... why not?

Now im not here to complain that you dont do what i think you should do, or that i dont like Guild Wars and im going to quit if if you dont do what i say or something like that. I exposed these "issues" to demonstrate that there are some things that you simply left behind, or abandonned!
We have allways "complained" about these things that we all belive/know that will make the game better if modified, but you never said anything if you plan to add it, or if you are working on it, or if dont know what to do.
I am pretty sure some of us would for for free for A.net if they could, the hell you can form an army with these people! Some of us crack our heads daily just to create a thread at gwguru with an idea that would please A.net.
I would cry to see GW abandonned like Diablo2 used to be at the 1.09 patch, of course such a lack of concern will never happen here, but it is happening at some parts of it like Tyria and Cantha.

All we want to hear is a "yes" or a "no"
We are yours to command.
/kneel

Want fishing? Go to a lake... plenty of fishing out there.

Yeah, there haven't been enough improvements!

SO WHAT if they made it easier to switch attribute points around?
SO WHAT if they added Sorrows Furnace and Grenth's footprint to Prophecies?
SO WHAT if they added white and brown dyes?
SO WHAT if they took many over-powered skills and made them balance with everything else? (remember those spirit spammer groups in HA?)
SO WHAT if they gave us customizable heros to use instead of henchmen?
SO WHAT if they took under-powered skills and balanced them out?
SO WHAT if they added unique weapons?
SO WHAT if they fixed glitch after glitch after glitch?
SO WHAT if they eliminated exploits that gave players an unfair advantage?
SO WHAT if they added titles to give players something to shoot for?
SO WHAT if they've banned thousands of bots from Drok's and Elona reach?
SO WHAT if they gave us toggleable capes and head-pieces?
And the list goes on, BUT:

WHAT HAVE THEY* DONE FOR US LATELY?

/end sarcasm.

*Edited to clarify this post.

this thread is about the GAME not the players. it is anet's job to make their game something their consumers find fun in. it is not the consumers job to find fun in something which does not appeal to them.

your argument is nothing more than trolling.

Dude. You obviously missed the point of Kook's post entirely. But since I'm a nice guy I'll make it simple for you.

THERE HAVE BEEN PLENTY OF IMPROVEMENTS.

Kook just listed a small portion of those improvements. Comprende? Gotta love people who call others trolls when they can't even comprehend to what they're responding to.

"dude", read it again, he was sarcastically saying that "there have been a lot of improvements and yet you havent done anything to help improve this game" se comprende eh?

therefore i tell him that its not the consumers job to find fun in a game but it is anets job to make sure it's consumers are having fun.

okay? get it?

his response was poorly worded, it should have said 'but what have THEY (not you) done for us lately' as obviously you seem to think that you're owed something by ANet, even though they have made hundreds of changes to the 3 different games since the original guildwars was first released, all with the goal of improving things for the players.

The way I read it was that there have been tons of improvements, but people in here are sitting around saying "What have you done for us lately?"

Anyways, to which I totally agree with kook on this topic.