State of the Game

This thread is not a complaint thread, it is merely a discussion thread about the issues in guild wars as seen by a small populous of people. Not all of the things posted here are my views, but the views of the people who collaborated with me on making this list and wished to remain anonymous.

1) AI runs from the player in a way that is not consistent with the notes on the guild wars website. For example, AI will now run from any type of AoE within seconds of the spell being used. Regardless of the condition of the monster, this happens. Even when the monster is within the 90% HP range.

2) Any AI that is engaged in this "flee" mode will continue to run untill either A: a new target is found or B: they are outside of the aggro bubble of the current target.

3) Enemy casters will now follow a player for as long as the zone will allow, which can make for some very difficult situations when running.

6) When a group of enemies has eliminated the majority of a party, they will hold aggro on the fleeing player untill they have either killed him or the player zones, this makes ressurect skills almost usless.

7) Enemies will now hold aggro even at the distance of a whole radar map. This can often be seen when a player actually manages to get away from aggro, and then attempts to cast a rez. The aggro will reingage while the player is still a few radar maps from the dead teammate.

8) Neither heroes or henchman will run from AoE damage. With any AoE they will just stand around untill you flag them out or they die.

9) Heroes do not prioritize the rez on the closest target, but they prioritize the other casters first. Often times this leads to heroes bypassing an easy rez, and charging straight into aggro.

10) Hero henchmen often cancel casts, even when the player is not moving in the least the caster will often cast,cancel, and then recast a spell. This can easily bee seen with the use of the ele henchmen, as this behavior is seen often among them.

11) Hero battles are there for a reason, to PvP with heroes. They don't belong in other types of competitive play, such as HA.

12) Anet has always urged that the deciding factor in a game should be the skill, but the skill of the player his/her self. This can be contradicting at times when one looks at various skills from the Elementalist line, among others.

13) Certain classes seem outdated and underpowered. Classes like the Warrior are still used, but many people are straying to other classes for sustained damage dealers, and classes such as the Ritualist are seeing relatively no use at all.

14) The fall of the economy. With the sudden decline in the worth of items due to the inscription feature, items that used to be worth 100k+ecto can now be seen sold for as little as 20k. The cost of keys can also be a problem because with items being worth so little, and the random rarity drops from chests effecting your items, the value of what you get often isn't enough to compensate for the cost of the key itself.

15) Many skills rendered useless with AI updates. Skills that were often seen on many a skillbar are now shunned because of the scatter of monters with constant damage. Skills like Gladiator's Defence, Shield of Judgement, Spiteful Spirit, and often even the normal attacks from dervishes themselves, can make the enemy scatter in a way that should not happen.

16) Suggested by Carth. Playing a caster with the new AI sucks because if you kite, even the smallest movement causes all the henchmen and heroes to move with you, break aggro, and stop whatever they were doing, and with the new AI, everything attacks the casters.

Now that i think about what i'm posting, this thread will probably get deleted.
I just want people to know what I think and what I feel on this subject, because there is no harm and certainly no foul in telling people what you think and i urge you all to do the same.

Feel free to add anything you think is necessary to this list, and i will try to update this post to keep everything in the same area.

Flame Away.

or maybe its because you see 3+ new threads about the AI every week


Editted because the confrontational remarks from 1st post were removed

Maybee there is a reason for that.

And to the opp.. good post.. i agree with most of them..

the one i dont agree with is the ele skill range.. they are fine.. I belive the ele is pretty solid as is.

but the paragons do need to get some downgrades.. i feel they are far overpowerd

And i also think the rit is just as strong now as ever.. but just not the spirit spammer rit.. so /do not agree on the rit.

The reason for that is because people are concerned and they want results.
Even if this topic gets deleted more people will post similar topics. Maybe we can keep this topic free of spam and flames and try and make a nice and constructive thread for people to express their opinions.

You forgot one: playing a caster with the new AI sucks because if you kite, even the smallest movement causes all the henchmen and heroes to move with you, break aggro, and stop whatever they were doing, and with the new AI, everything attacks the casters.

Thanks for your contribution, and i added it to my original post
I'll try and keep it updated so everything is there in the original list.

After looking at it again, i can see your point, and i will remove that portion from the list.

I agree with most points. Though I think the Ritualist is a great character in the hands of a good player. They're second only to a monk in their healing and their dmg spirits are awesome. I'm not sure how they are when compared to a maxed W.S. Ranger's traps, but they have to be close.

Agree with almost all of that =/

After all, everyone knows that shortly after a class implementation, all skills and classes are balanced! We've never had gimmickway skills before, no sir! NF is clearly poor because of this!

Saw it anyway, and those remarks were hilarious.

I really dislike what they've done with the enemy AI as well. I'm not an expert on these things nor am I a guy who plays GW constantly, but all the monsters running from battle and making you aggro other groups is ridiculous. Then when you bring the two other groups down on your head and you need to run, you can't just cause they follow you halfway across Tyria and back.

I'm feel differently about the AI, except that i does have some problems such as aggro lock, it's quite refreshing to have an AI thats more of a challenge.

it also introduces the need to bring a water ele, and/or crippling attacks into PvE.

I am hoping you claim most of these points are exceedingly rare happenings, as I just was able to log in and claim false to most of these in the 30ish minutes I spent fooling around in the Domain of Secrets.

Just one thing I want to comment on:
Outdated classes is a matter of suddenly the focus moves away from the same handful of skills that dominated parts of the game before. Its merely a shift to different skills, which favor different classes.
And Ritualists are a topic often discussed, basically the class was considered to be too strong in defense with its cookie cutter build Rit Lord, and people whined it away, in favor of the "core class only" gameplay so many seem to crave.

This is a good thread. Might aswell have most of the gripes in the same place instead of in different threads. However I think 1-7 are perfectly fine. So what if they chase you everywhere, or they run from AoE attacks straight away (don't we?). The AI is acting more like a human player imo and rightly so. May make the game harder but I've heard many people complaining about the game being to easy. Anet can't win.

While I agree that the AI has drastically changed, I don't really agree that it is a problem. I choose to see this as a challenge. I'm planning and stragegizing how I will deal with every mob I come across now before I rush in and engage. I did before the AI change but I'm doing so now more than ever.

If my target starts running away, I cast a slowdown spell or I switch to a new, closer target. The original target will come back and be dealt with accordingly. Sometimes the enemy will actually run a circle around me. I simply cast Crippling Anguish (or a similar slowdown spell) and my warrior hero/henchies deal with the target.

When I come across several mobs that are close together I send Koss by himself to aggro the nearest group and then bring him back and deal with that mob by itself, and then the next one and so on. You will have fewer problems of runners aggroing (is that even a word?) other mobs when you draw that first mob away from the others.

Sometimes I do find myself with a epic fight on my hands, like when I aggro one mob and one or two other mobs are also aggroed because they are somehow linked. Watch things closely. If me and my henchies can deal with it, great. If not I set my flag far away and relocate. I've noticed that not every enemy will continue the chase. The ones that do are now easier to deal with due to fewer numbers. Sometimes after a retreat the enemy will come at me piecemeal, one or two at a time. Works for me!

This one aggravates me the most. I wish the henchmen and heroes would stay locked on whatever I space-clicked on. Now, if I ever go to pick up an item during combat, they'll break aggro and walk over to me for those precious few seconds.

This is likely do to your own movement causing them to move and cancel.

This is already in the process of being changed.

Every season has seen its overpowered skills, but the only time people care to complain on Guru is when it's also lethal in PvE. Searing Flames is going to be balanced sometime after Dec. 11. I wish everyone would stop the threads in reference to certain skills. I honestly can't remember seeing threads about SB/RI or other overpowered PvP builds, so why should I care people can't spread out against elementalist bosses in PvE?

Warriors aren't outdated, and there's definitely no shortage of them anywhere in the game. Ritualists have always only been spirit spam for PvE, and that's about all they're good for in PvP. Don't expect ritualists to change in that respect.

Items were never ment to be sold for over 100k, and it shouldn't matter that items are selling for less. You might not be able to sell an item for nearly as much, but you can now buy at a cheaper price as well. The only people this hurts are power traders who will have to spend even more time trying to get their sets of FoW.

I'm sorry Anet is trying to make people think up new ways to play, instead of spamming the exact same fire elementalist skill bar from Prophecies through Nightfall. I'm sure that would have been damn fun. >.>

14) Prices fluctuate. GW is not a trading game. The new system is great, since it allows easy (not unexpensive, but easy) access to perfect items.

15). Those skills are neither outdated nor useless. Not only that, SS is still extremly viable and just as playable as it was before. Shield of Judgement is still used for farming. Gladiator's defense is what our group tank used against Shiro. And more. Unfortunately,

I stronlgy disagree with this point. These skills did lose some efficiency when used to solo farm (1 person only) a group of more than 3! melee! creatures. That is when they start running around and regening. Emphasis here is on Solo, 3 and melee. Any number of ranged attackers will still work as always. 3 mobs or less will never run away.

16) Fully agreed. Henchies are now allowed to kite, but players aren't. Caster characters are very handicapped by this.

-----

17, 18 19?) And another, very old problem. AI works in sync. Two heroes with rez will rez the same target. Two heroes with heavy heal will use it on same target, hugely overhealing, while a third member dies. AI using similar or idential hexes will use them on same target.

AI should have some group awarness, to not use same skills on same target. Only one hench with rez should use it on same target. For this very reason players call out "I'm using Ressurect on ...". Henchies should learn that for at least the most common situations.

the "sync rez" effect I was able to get rid of mostly by not always putting the hero rez in the same slot for all of my heroes. So, the one I want rezzing most often has it in slot 7, the others slot 8 etc.

Often helps.

You could wait til combat's over to collect items. o.o

heros on offensive will run away from the flag, and they will NOT break aggro until they die.....I have had this happen tons of times....I now no longer have any heros on offensive; they now are all on defensive.
I have also found that heros will aggro groups you are running past (when on defense as well)....and lets not forget the minions who will aggro ANY enemy that gets within 2 aggro bubbles.....

otherwise agree with most of this....

on the caster moving problem, the target on the hero skill bar is SUPPOSED to lock them on a target, this however, doesnt work either...

(I have also often found that my heros will use the skill in number 8 or 7 before the one in number 1.....I have been training them to use them in the order I requested/put them in).

I will comment on some of your concerns, but it just seems like you not trying to help , but are resistent to change.

There is no probelm with 1-7 thousands of people are making it though the game with no issues.
On these they gave you the flag, so try using it. We wanted more control and with that comes the responsibility of using it, not be on autopilot.

Very good point, if heros are taken out of HA it will also revitalize the Hero battles because people would go there to use their heros like they should.
Also, with no titles for HB its a wash. A shame because the strategies and tactics used their are rich and deep, but why explore that when you can heroway right?

First on the economy its called balance, and its a good call. Now a guy playing 15-20 hours a week can equip his toons and heros with a little style not just collectors gear. I dont see a probelm with that.

Secondly on chests its a matter of opinion. I am glad to get a purple from a chest cause its still a unlock for pvp and still worth the price of the key imo. Also it advances my treasure seekers title as well as gives me some loot back from selling mods or just the merchanting. Your expectations may not be realistic thus causing undo disappointment.


Please dont. Try posting something in a more positive tone cause 95 percent of your whines are not really issues. One or two good points but basically subjective.

To be fair, every player has had access to perfect items, either via crafters, collectors, and more recently green items. Yes, I am aware that some greens were stupidly overpriced. However, most of them were well within the range of a casual player, since I hear so many posts claiming "All I do is play the game and I have XX amount of platinum".

The former prices of 100k+ectos on a very select few items were due to sheer rarity of the skin and the low chances of getting one with good inherent mods. If you found one, you were set for a good long while in most cases.

His "whines" are not personal objections from what I can gather, but rather a collection of "whines" by members of the community. Obviously some of these are subjective, it does not mean they are not issues. Whining, as you call it, is what encourages reconsideration and change. If a lot of people don't like feature X, then as good business sense you would want to do something about it. This list facilitates that process, and I think it's a good list of common complaints/"whines".

Care to elaborate ? How do you know ? Can we get a link ?

I think he selectively chose issues which were in line with his own agenda, there are real tangible probelms with the game and he listed 1 of 16 points. The rest is his opinion being written in a manner as if something is really broken. I'm for fixing real probelms and issues not catering to whims or perception. In three months as he gains experience in the game his entire percetpion will change. He wont even believe he wrote this post. No need to change a game because one player is in a rut. But you are correct in that reconsideration and change is good. But if you really read his post the OP hates change and wants things changed back to the way they were so he can be in his comfort zone again rather than adapt. But I could be wrong, just my 2 cents.

you should try to keep your arguments civil.. the opp did nothing to deserve your harsh post..

Before this thread gets closed can we please be less harsh when dissagreing..

thank you.

Actually he did, at the bottem of his post he said "flame away" sorry you didnt understand get the underlining humor.


No probelm, lets just say that when disagreeing, its gonna be disagreeable but nothing personal intended.

LOL shadow this is like saying when it rains things are gonna get wet.

Honestly I have not seen inscriptions make a significant impact on the economy. Since not all weapons can have an inscription added to them, some people may pay more for a weapon with a slot open or not.

Wrong,

Go search for the post Gaile made? There's a handy Search feature you could use, or that little subform about all posts made by Anet employees.

Good point. It's always best to find exactly what Gaile said, because reading what many others interpret it to mean is a mistake. So, assuming this is the post you are referring to, here is the quote:

If I had just accepted your post that it was in the process of being changed, I would have misunderstood what was going on. Gaile says the dev team is looking at the issue. Do I expect a change to be made at some point, yeah, but I know by reading Gaile's words that she has not committed ANet to it.

I love how you all assume their taking it out read it carefully

"Were going to take a LOOK AT LIMITING THE NUMBER OF HEROES THAT CAN BE INCLUDED IN A GAME OF HEROES ASCENT"

That just means theres gonna be a little less heroes in a game, the will still be there.

Gaile if ur reading can you expand upon my theory.....im sure im not the only one confused

...qq

My 2 cents:

I would like to see Heroes made into PvP like characters that can be equipped decently without having to spend lots of plat on them.

I would also like to see less grind points in the game such as the sunspear point farm quest (it's not bad for elonian characters, but is a bit of a p.i.t.a. for foreign characters...especially if you have a lot of em).

I would like to see skill nerfs in inspiration delt with by increasing cast time rather than decreasing energy gained in order to maintain the effectiveness to mesmers who have fast casting while making inspiration energy gain skills less abused by other classes.

I'm still waiting on an auction house function.


With this said, I have thoroughly enjoyed NF and am still content with the current state of the game. And yes, I am one of those freaks who thinks there is nothing wrong with the AI and is actually enjoying the challenge and diversity in gameplay it provides.

First off those AI issues 1-7. ARE real. The fact that you're not encountering them, means you're blind or not in the right place. I'm assuming it's the latter.

Prophecies is so messed up with the chasing AI that it's really ridiculous. 1-3 casters, not warriors, casters with their natural speed enhancements (but only when chasing) will follow you now for a very very long amount of time, more than before the first change to AI back when Griffons were still farmable that said enemies will not chase you forever...it seems to be reinstated and it looks stupid.

Now this only happens when running from them whether you're fighting and retreating or actually running. Examples: I was getting a run to Grotto from Iron Mines, and we were in Ice Floe, right past the Ice Imp groups that are there or not there, they randomly spawn. I was ahead of almost everyone else and right behind my warrior runner and this Mursaat Mesmer that was aggroed in a group of casters about a 3-5 radars (yes radars not aggro bubbles) away well it was following him and I was behind him and this Mursaat, although I avoided it and went off to the side. About 10 seconds or so later I see a Mursaat Elementalist coming by, this guy was no where in my sight of view at all, and I'm assuming he came from the group the Mursaat Mesmer came from. But he went and kept on following the runner, even though the Mursaat Mesmer had stopped and went back before the 3 Ice Imps close to Grotto. Then about 5-10 seconds later, a Mursaat Necro and the same Mesmer com by following the Warrior still. The other party members had caught up to me, or died by now from the Mursaat group the Warrior aggroed. The Warrior by now, was about 5 or so radars ahead of his chasers, they couldn't even see him, yet they continued to follow him until out of my radar. That is plain and simply ridiculous they should never ever follow that long especially when their target is greyed out.

Another example today, I was getting a run to Droks on my Dervish and well, I got passed the big group of Avicara in Talus Chute. I was in the clear and running forward..right around where that level 10 Ice Golem or Summit spawns, and I see an Avicara Guile running back, no other Avicara around, I presume he was chasing the runner. He targets me, even though I'm not in he's not in my aggro circle and hits me with his spell..not bother, but when he does that his friends start chasing me so I hurry and use my 5 (other is 7) second running skill. I run ahead of the Guile and I'm staying ahead of him, his friends went back or so I thought cause they weren't on my radar. So I'm running past the Crafter there, and I'm nearing the troll cave. The Guile is till chasing me, that's about 5 radar lengths from his group and he's casted on me 3 times or so now but he will not give up. I'm using my 25% running skills and he's keeping up with me..like he has that same amount of movement. My runner entered Droks by the time I got past the troll cave..and the Guile was still chasing me. I'm certain, that unless I could get even farther ahead of him that he would have chased me to Droks. That's from one end of the map to the other and shouldn't be happening at all. It's stupid. Doesn't hurt me at all but the logic is stupid.

I don't see this as much in Nightfall, with them chasing you. The aggro locks for a while, sometimes they give up, sometimes they don't. Kournan Priests are a bit stupid, but other than that, it seems fine there. Cantha is free of problems mostly, the trouble is in Prophecies, and it's only casters chasing that far. Dolyak Masters, Mursaat casters, Bog Skales, Summit casters..I've seen them all do it. That's a persisting problem that I've noticed. The occurrences in Nightfall are 50/50. Like a gold from a chest.

Me attempting to rez my party. Ignore that flag near the group, that was a test to see if aggro was locked on me or on all of us. It was all of us... @_@

Need I say more on the AI?

Haven't Avicara had an innate movement speed boost since forever? There are quite a few mobs that cannot be outrun/matched without boosts.

I have seen this behavior on mobs like Mursaat however, a pair of Mursaat monks tailed me for ages while running to Grotto... makes no difference, but is rather odd

Yeah that's nothing new but still annoying. Even though it doesn't effect my progress, since by the time I have to stop to heal or anything if I do..his friends won't catch up to me. The Mursaat thing wasn't a problem, just more or less of a why the smokes are they doing that. Although I can see it becoming a problem if my runner had to stop and all of a sudden you got an Ele you aggroed 3 minutes ago about 10 radars back attacking you still, then his friends coming after..but you should be out of there by then.

^^^^ thats just screwed up......(Gareths first post on this page and to Rahjas)

No they are not. There is more to aggro than a little 88 foot diameter bubble. This stuff has been the same since day one and is not broken, but working as designed from pre-faction days. Lets try to address some of your concerns to see what is "broken".

This is one of two things the first one could be the mesmer hexed the warrior who did not remove it which sometimes act as a homing device. The second possibility is a case of "spell lock" which is basically when a foe is casting a spell on you but you leave the casting range before it activates the foe is locked on you and will continue to chase till the spell is cast.


You gotta watch what you doing around the Avicara man, they are a special case, but again it sound like "spell lock" Avicara style. All this has been documented long ago. Here is a link to some to Arggo tips on wiki, please read the very last paragraph on Avarica aggro, it applies here.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Aggro


Rahja,
I think the aggro here was not on your party but on the location of the battle where your party members died. Sometimes if you go back to a battle scene to rez someone you notice the foes hoover around and return when you come back to rez. When this happens you gotta let them get completely out of radar range of the location then come back. Sometimes if you go out of radar range they will reset and you can go back and rez.