Days of PUGS Gone ?

I've read through a few of the posts about AI and well IMHO what I see is whinning. Are there a few bugs perhaps but are the heros worth their salt ? I'd have to say HELL YEAH ! I've been able to beat the game with heros and henchies and quite frankly they are more reliable then people within PUGS the AI broken or not. There isn't a mission one that isn't doable with a unit of heros and henchies making up the rest of the party. They don't leave or quit, they don't annoy me, and they do attack what I tell them to.

I can honestly say that there is no more waiting within a group for the Monk to show up or waiting within a group for just that right character with one particular skill so a mission can be beat for this ole Ranger.

i just did 2 NF missions last night with pug team with human players (and we got masters too).

i'm playing pve to relax, chill, socialize while killing ai, not to beat missions asap/win easily. so yea, pugging is fun.

Totally agree with ya.

I'm gonna miss PUGs though. Kinda fun

Did all NF missions with Heroes/Henchies except for Ruins of Morah, Gates of Madness, and the final mish.

The degree of control players can now have over heroes and (to a lesser extent) henchmen might actually become a problem for some. Sure, you can micro-manage your heroes and control your henchmen, but they are only tools, and a lot of people drop their tools when they have to think for eight players instead of one in a tough mission.

A human player can adjust for the situation in a way that hero programming simply cannot, which is why people looking for Masters reward in certain missions prefer to take as few heroes/henchmen as possible. I agree that heroes are perfect for "fixing" party composition by adding the missing components, but only a very experienced (or a very patient) player would be able to complete the game flawlessly with heroes and henchies.

Apart from with friends I hate doing missions with humans. You always get one that thinks he knows it all and says "ffs, noob" every 2 minutes. One that ain't got a clue and agros everything you tell him not too and one that goes afk to piggyback the mission. Oh, and let's not forget the leaver because he dies once and can't be doing with any kind of DP.

Koss and co are reliable and hard working so I'll stick with those thanks.

However, I still prefer mission groups with people I know so I can have a laugh and a chat whilst playing.

Amen.

PUGs are far from gone. It's PUGs that have it so much easier, that they don't encounter bugs, AI issues, and other problems, that they don't go to forums. All problems that do occur are because of problems with hero and hench AI.

It would be interesting to see the statistics: All hench groups vs. all/half human groups.

And I haven't seen anyone in PUG err7, rage quit or afk during any mainland missions since NF release.

Prophecies is a different story, but that content is way too easy these days. And nobody plays Factions anymore, so obviously, there aren't any PUGs there.

Heroes are good for quests, but for missions, especially masters, humans are way easier to play with.

PUGs are still there. I've played through some missions with them, but some missions I just grab my hero/hench team and go. I won't miss the arguing with people because they think their opinion is all that matters and feel the need to boss everyone around.

Pugs in NF are still there but changed.

It's usually 2-7 real players + hero/henchmen to fill in gaps that you can't get (aka Group Looking for monk for 5+ min is gone).

Now I've come across a lot of players in original gw that don't own NF and it's normal pugs from what I've seen.

Beat last two missions with 3 human / hero group. Worked out very well and still had the human / chat / humor interaction.

You especially see LFG / LFM latter on in the game (NF).

The thing that annoys me with forming a Mission group in NF, is that people always walk around with 3 heroes in their party, and so when you add them, you know that it'll just be you, them and their heroes. Kind of annoying, especially when you're trying to make a mostly human team.

PUGs are still around, just not as many as there were before heros.

For me, I prefer to do the quests with the heros/henchies. During quests, I just turn them loose and don't need to micro-manage them (except when pulling, but that's nothing).

During Missions, I'd rather play with PUGs, only using Heros to fill spots when a real player isn't available to go. Yeah, there are problems with PUGs, but I've had more fun with them than heartburn.

Well, this morning Tyria was rather empty of anyone .

Decided to take a break from NF and went back to work on my new Tyrian mesmer - needed the Surmia mission and thought I'd just take my heroes since there was maybe four people in Surmia! Ended up pairing up with a ranger who apparently did not want to chat or socialize or even be courteous and answer questions (like "have you done this one before?").

In NF, I find the further I get (into the Desolation now), the easier it is to get into a PuG with my ranger. Doesn't mean the PuG is better than heroes/henches, but I too would rather play with real people. I had the singular good fortune to wiggle into a group the other night that ended up doing something like 3 missions before we went our separate ways! And yesterday, I discovered the Wonderful World of Wurms .

I hope PuGs are not a thing of the past, but I'm grateful for my heroes at the same time.

only reason i henches everything was because no one was ever on. i'd still prefer pugs because theres people to talk to....henches are boring

I mainly hench things because of my "non cookie cutter builds" , but yesterday i decided to get some fun with a pug, we didn't had the "balanced team" stuff, heck, we had 2 assassins, but we did totally own that mission (consulate docks (sp?))

Hmmmm what to prefer:

Doing mission with a PUG team. After 30 minutes of searching for the right players, a total idiot screws up after 5 minutes after entering the mission, he then leaves, and so does the monk and 2 other people. Back to town to spend yet again 30 minutes finding a perfect team. (Before that is done, the remaining players have left as well.)

Or heroes/henchies. The battlefield is a total chaos, caster henchies are running everywhere, and Koss runs off and aggroes 2 groups, even though you commanded the heroes/henchies to stay behind.

hard choice, I'd find a guild and some nice friends which are very reliable. No more PUGs, no more heroes/henchman, but just doing the mission with your friends

ITs about time PuGs got some competition. For too long, we had to suffer the idiocy of ignorant PuGGers. The AI completely outperforms them in many areas.

Thanks to Heroes, I never have to suffer that torture ever again. Guildies/Heroes ftw.

Pugs are fun , chatting and mucking around but doing the mission at the same time , i really hope pugs will stay around

I love when people bash PuGs as if they are a separate entity of inferior players, independent of the 1337 players. Here's a hint buddy, PuGs are made up of people like you and me. If 99% of this forum is bashing PuGs, you have to wonder - at least 50% of them are actually bashing themselves (like you).

Very true

Cons for PUGS

they can't afk farm lightbringer points

Pros for PUGS

they are much more fun and exciting

its quite simple, heroes disconenct when you do, PUGS disconnect when they want to

I did the whole game except the last 2 missions all with hero and hench, and the last 2 with a mix. Madness was done with 3 people, me, another dervish and SV necro, the other dervish's 3 heroes and 2 hench. Didn't get masters cos didn't try for it, but found it a lot easier. Then did last mission with another guy and his heroes and my heroes. A lot easier than when i tried it with heroes and hench as he knew what he was doing, and it allowed complementary sharing, and prevented having to wait around as there wrere barely any people there.
PUGs are still there, but more towards the end game as it can be a very long wait at times earlier on

Heroes are a blessing and a curse to GuildWars.
They're good and with a bit of fine tuning and controlling them you can achieve everything as easy as if you had a full party of expert players.
The curse though is that PUGs are mostly dead. The chatter in towns completely died (except for that occasional tradespam), almost no one is looking for groups anymore.

On the other hand, pugs were fun, it was atleast multiplayer. Nightfall feels like a Single Player with the exception of a few rare occurences. When Prophecies was released, i met many new people some of which are still on my friendslist. When factions came out, i met many new people some of which are still on my friendslist.
When nightfall came out... i met no one new and many left my friendslist by stopping to play GuildWars. Meh, Single Player :P

There are pros and cons either way and yes real people are always more fun, that's why I'm part of a guild but I simply won't miss the waiting and annoying things commonly associated with pugs. I did like the comparison of Heros to tools and oh yes how useful a tool they can be. I could make a list of everything I hate about PUGS but I have had both experiences good and bad with them. I would have to say though that most PUG experiences have been for the worse however and not the better

It's usually after a PUG fails and the patient players that remain put a group back togeather is when PUGS get fun because then you usually have a more patient group and people who are serious about the task at hand. First time successful PUGS for me, not many, it's been the ones put togeather from failure that have worked.

Factions, I think would have the most PUGS just due to the fact of missions all being on a time limit for the masters award.

It's true, if you are joining a PuG then you are a PuGer, like it or not. And as with any random group, it will consist of good and bad. I'll do quests with heroes and henchman, but I still prefer real people for missions. Heroes are great for fill-in, but who wants to micro-manage the whole group. Now the mission is work instead of fun.

I prefer the memories from the PuGs for better (used my mesmer as the tank in Maguuma Jungle) or worse (casters/healers ran off to cap in Southern Shiverpeaks and left the two tanks fighting, didn't rez us until they had picked up all the drops). They all leave you with something talk about.

PuGs will always exist so long that people want to socialize in GW.

The fact that their disappearing tells you something.....

I dont think PUGs are dead--IMO, PUGS are scarcely seen because the GW populace is pretty spread out between the three chapters. I know that in the main mission areas, I still see people looking for groups; they may be in the minority now that the experienced players have grasped hero/hench control, and dont feeel like waiting for groups to form.
I 'm about 1/2 through NF, and havent come up against a mission that I couldnt do with just Hero's/Henches, versus forming a group with human players. Would we call that experience, or (at this point in the game), really easy missions? I've read some of the posts that talked about the "really hard" missions near the end of the game; it could be that, towards the end, you might see more PUGs forming (any players who finished NF, please let us know if that's the case)...

I don't PuG and that argument makes no sense.

Yep, that's kind of the case. In the second-last mission alot of people are lf a p... it's not that hard with heroes, though :P

But the Realm of Torment as a whole is rather difficult. Some quests are too hard to do with heroes as well (well, at least for me).

If the AI goes back to normal again, we might see more coöp as it becomes harder then. (enemies will actually ATTACK instead of just chasing around mindlessly :O)

I did all of NF with hench/heroes except for the last two missions. PUGs make me nervous because I worry "what if people think I suck?" ect ect. I also have a pretty inconvienent sort of schedule and sometimes cram in 20 minutes here and there.

I got a random invite while sitting around in Gates of Madness tonight, and it was a heck of a great time. No one freaking out even though we horked the first time through, only 5 players but we used some heroes to fill it out, and it totally rocked.

Honestly, for how much I use heroes and hench, I've never had a hugely bad PUG experience, and it's always fun to chat with people. Knock off a few silly comments, ect. I think the best part about Heroes/hench control is that you have options. And if you're short something you really need in a PUG, you've got something a little better to fill in. No more looking for a monk for a half hour then deciding "oh heck we'll just take hench healers".

(and I went on with the same PUG to beat Nightfall with my Mesmer, whoo!)

OMG -A noob question- What PUGs means ? PM me with the answer please. Thanks.

A good PuG is still a beautiful thing to behold. When, for some bizzare reason, your group of 2 Sins, a Monk, a fast casting Nuker, 3 Warriors, and my Sword Ranger manage to complete some really tough quests without a single death. Or, when a mish-mash group gets owned but pulls together and never gives up and succeeds anyway. Some of my fondest memories of this game involve PuGs.

Sure I've had some seriously bad players in various PuGs, and yeah I havn't actually PuGed at all since Nightfall, but I don't think that they'll die any time soon. If this game isn't about social interaction then what is it about?

[EDIT] malevolence: PuG means Pick Up Group. The random groups you find when you're in a town, basically.

PuG fun to play with, but sometimes it gets into the unwant undesirable flaming war...

Depending on the mish, i complete 95% for all stuff with just heros/Henches...

But when i see ppl calling for groups i still join for chatting fun

They are pretty much dead in Nightfall with the Hero's. I see people asking for them in Prophecies though, and throughout NF I've seen people asking for them.

Overall if I need chatting..( I don't need PUGS), I go to Grotto, that's all the chatting I need and it keeps me going.

I've noticed that the quality of pugs in NF is generally greater than those in, say, Prophecies. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because a lot of the veterans have moved on to NF, and more of the people new to Guild Wars in general are starting with Prophecies.

I've had very few horrific NF pug experiences, a few bad ones, several decent ones and a couple of really good ones. Yesterday I helped an alliance member with a mission in Factions and I wanted to stab someone. Today I helped the same person with a mission in Prophecies and I straight up wanted to jam my scissors through my eye socket (a monk should never use any skills other than scourge healing, apparently).

I still use heroes a lot when I'm on my own. When I'm with guild members it's just us and heroes always. We take heroes for ease of quick playing, really. It's nice to be able to finish a quest to pop into a mission town and maybe just change out one hero, whose build is already set up, and hop into the mission in a matter of a minute. When I'm alone and feeling patient, I pug. Patience just doesn't happen frequently.

It's just so bad that you can say heroes are better than a pug when 1) Tahlkora and Dunkoro blow all of their energy in a matter of seconds, Zhed cannot grasp the concept of glyphs or attunements at all (glyph of sacrifice + glowing gaze, anybody?), Koss won't lock on a target I set for him, and Norgu tries to power drain a non-spell. When your entire party is doing worse than that, can you really blame people?

As for those complaining that pugging is dead in NF... all I have to say is are you kidding me? Everywhere I see "GLF 1 more", etc. Everywhere. Most places, more than one group of people are looking for more. I don't know what to tell you. Either you can't read, or you need to make sure your local chat is on because I see no problem.

PUG's aren't dead, not by a long shot. I personally usually prefer running with hero/hench or a good RL friend + our heros. However, once in a while I'll get a random invite and join up. Most of the time, the experience isn't bad. My warrior has completed all the storyline missions for all 3 campaigns, and generally, people listen and take advice. Once in a while, you get into a BAD group, but overall, PUG's are no worse than soloing/henching.

Completed Nightfall with Heroes/Henches only

Went to Tyria, completed all desert, Shiverpeak and Fire Islands with Heroes/Henches only

Went to Cantha, just started working my way through with Heroes/Henches



I miss aggro’ing 3 groups at a time
I miss aggro’ing the next group when I’m low on energy
I miss going to foreign districts and saying ‘KK’ to every question as I can’t understand a word, (seems to work every time in the German District)
I miss the moaning and accusations
I miss the complements, (had one once if I remember rightly)
I miss waiting 3 days for a monk to join our group
I miss ‘Mending’ on Warriors
I miss rage quitters
I miss people going afk for hours


But, in a strange perverted way, I do miss PUG’s!

Hench/Hero Way has always been there and now that we have Hero's it's becoming more and more poupular. When I first started playing GW I figured that henchman were out of the question. Guild Wars is a CORPG and how can you be competive if you can't watch someone better than you? I mean heros and henches don't got anything on me when it comes to running, spiking, thinking up builds, giving advice, and just plain out having a good time.

PUG's are what make this game a Role Playing Game and not some game that has an internet connection. (I don't have anything against henches/heros and love side questing with them. PUG's will never die!)

P ick
U p
G roup

An advice for PUGs:

- Group "for this than that" LFM. Don't invite people yourself. If they are interested in joining, they will join themselves. If they don't know how to join themself, you don't want them in your group. Never ever invite players into your group by selecting non-grouped characters in the area. They don't care about joining a group and won't be interested (usually).

- Ask for their role (not build). A MM is a MM. Let them play their build, as long as it meets the purpose. A blood necro with level 5 minions however is not a MM. A confident player will show their build upon joining. That's a good sign. Inconfident player (but not necessarily a bad player) will be reluctant to show their build.

- Balanced groups. If you get invited into a group with 5 dervishes and 2 paragons, and leader asks to bring self-heals, it's time to leave. That very moment. Without a word.

- Try, at least try, to bring in some social atmosphere. Saying "Hi" upon joining and getting at least 1 reply is a good indication. Joining a group only to see the mission counter pop-up without a single word is a bad sign.

- Warrior with mending? So... what. It will get shattered. Doesn't matter. Warriors can't heal themself anyway, so they will always rely on monks for survival. Taking extra 70 damage isn't a disaster, they'll still soak up damage, and mending will remove one shatter that would go towards your casters.

- No "leet skill of your choice". So what. Name any build, and 5 people will line up and tell you how it sucks and what a moron you are for running it. Then 20 more will show up saying the original 5 are idiots for claiming that.

- "I can hench the entire game, all masters" crowd. Good for them. Since they are obviously too good to play with you, they won't join you anyway.

- You always fight alone. With heroes and henchies, nobody can hear you scream. With players, you see what others are doing. But you also have the oportunity to learn from them. Learn their mistakes, learn how to adapt to them, learn how to improve yourself, discuss or observe tactics. With henchies, you will never learn anything, only how to work around their bugs. And those are completely different from real challenges.

- Every so many times, you will wipe badly. You will get called names, you will have rage quitters, afkers, err7. Every so many times, you will get perfect group that will plow through everything. Humans tend to remember only bad experiences. Were all of your experiences really that bad? Or is it that every time you get a good group things go so smoothly, it's almost boring?

- Above all, do what you prefer. Don't feel forced into PUGs, don't feel forced into heroway. Don't cause frustration where you don't need it, but try to experience both.

- You equip your heroes so they fit the area. Select your group in the same way. Choose classes, roles, advise (not demand) on skill choices. It's the same thing, except that you don't have an UI for every group member. If someone actively argues your choices without providing a counter-point (very important), they are not a team player. If they suggest alternate build (Someone wants to run SS instead of MM), consider if that is really that bad. As long as there are corpses and many mobs, both builds will work. It's better to let them play the build they prefer. If there are no corpses, then there's no choice. SS/blood/not-MM or bust.

Maybe it's a different story on US servers but in Euroland casual coop play has definately taken a hit. It's interesting to note this has occurred over the past 3 GW campaigns

1 - Prophecies, where people teamed up all the time in most areas.
2 - Factions, where people struggled to team up often hopping to German/French/English etc. districts just to get players for the party.
3 - Nightfall, where most seem to have Heroes permanently in their party and don't team up so much anymore.


Over the course of the three campaigns then, teamplay coop has been going downhill. It's not as simple as "you can if you want to" - you may want to but it's become harder and harder to find others who want to (as they probably already left with their AI team).